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Drone Pilot Wins Case Against FAA

schwit1 writes "In a David vs. Goliath battle that pitted the Federal Aviation Administration against the operator of a small model airplane, a federal administrative judge has sided with the aircraft's pilot. The judge has dismissed a proposed $10,000 fine against businessman Raphael Pirker, who used a remotely operated 56-inch foam glider to take aerial video for an advertisement for the University of Virginia Medical Center"

23 of 236 comments (clear)

  1. How did this go to trial? by kthreadd · · Score: 3, Funny

    1. Guy flies radio-controlled model plane.
    2. ?
    3. Guy is in court.

    What happened a step 2?

    1. Re:How did this go to trial? by bobthesungeek76036 · · Score: 5, Informative

      1. Guy flies radio-controlled model plane. 2. ? 3. Guy is in court.

      What happened a step 2?

      From TFA: ...Pirker operated the aircraft within about 50 feet of numerous individuals, about 20 feet of a crowded street, and within approximately 100 feet of an active heliport at UVA, the FAA alleged. One person had to take "evasive measures" to avoid being struck by the aircraft, the agency said...

      My guess is one of the "numerous individuals" whined to the Police/F.A.A.

      --
      Karma: Bad
    2. Re:How did this go to trial? by Luckyo · · Score: 5, Informative

      From the TFA:
      The judge has dismissed a proposed $10,000 fine against businessman Raphael Pirker, who used a remotely operated 56-inch foam glider to take aerial video for an advertisement for the University of Virginia Medical Center".

      It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together. Videos shot from air need a platform to shoot them from.

    3. Re:How did this go to trial? by Alioth · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's an FAA matter because the FAA regulates the National Airspace System in which this RC aircraft was flying. No one else regulates airspace in the United States, not cities, not states, airspace is a federal matter and many cases have settled this (for example when cities try to enact their own overflight rules, the FAA slaps them down, and has been doing for a long time). It doesn't matter what you're flying, you are still subject to 14CFR if you fly something. It doesn't matter how small or light it is.

      The FAA doesn't regulate cars, RC or otherwise so the RC car example is not relevant.

    4. Re:How did this go to trial? by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      this will expedite regulation.

      Good. The current regulations are idiotic. Why should buzzing a crowd be okay, but buzzing a crowd FOR PROFIT be illegal? He didn't get in trouble because he was flying recklessly, but because he was trying to earn a living.

      No, buzzing a crowd is illegal independent of wether it is for profit or not. My guess is since he was doing it for profit is was easier for the FAA to use that to fine him. No that a judge has said they can't do that they need to decide wether to drop the case, appeal, and or charge him with other violations of the CFR. While some rules may seem, or actually be, idiotic, there needs to controls on how airspace is used to ensure everyone's safety. If he did operate the a/c as described in the article he deserves to be slapped. It's the people who act irresponsibly that result in rules being made that negatively impact all of us who don't.

      --
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    5. Re:How did this go to trial? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why should buzzing a crowd be okay, but buzzing a crowd FOR PROFIT be illegal?

      That's an easy one. In many fields, it is considered onerous to regulate hobbyists because the cost of registration and testing would be prohibitive. If you're making a living doing something, if you can't make enough money to cover the costs of proper training, regulation and insurance, then it's not a viable business.

      Obligatory car analogy: in most places, it's legal to give your friends a lift in your car on a normal driving license, but you'll need a taxi license to take paying passengers. This, I hope you'll agree, is fair, as it aims to protect the public without encroaching on personal leisure-time liberties.

      Another analogy: public parks. Many cities are now introducing bye-laws/ordnances to stop trainers running profit-making bootcamps etc without a permit. This is because these commercial users are typically much heavier users than members of the public, and therefore use up more of a limited resource, increasing grass damage and ground compaction. Even where the space isn't otherwise needed, there is still the issue of their activity and noise affecting nearby park users. Airways are also public space, and it's fair to the owners (everyone) that those extracting commercial value are controlled and perhaps even pay back in.

      Note, though, that this ruling isn't about the personal use vs commercial use argument -- the judge's decision was that the regulations for UAVs are not directly relevant to model aircraft (differences in size and flight range are not inconsiderable between commercial drones and hobbyist vehicles). As such, expect to see the FAA bring in new regulations for model aircraft, categorising model aircraft by top speed, effective range, fuselage size etc.

      Note also that in most countries that do have specific provisions for model aircraft, Pirker would still have been breach of the law due to the proximity to the helipad. Not only that, but FPV flying (Pirker flies with a camera and head-mounted display) is technically illegal in most jurisdictions, because the designation of model aircraft mandates that the pilot must maintain direct line-of-sight with the aircraft at all times. The need to maintain line-of-sight kept issues of range as effectively redundant in the designation of model aircraft.

      --
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    6. Re:How did this go to trial? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The FAA doesn't need to be involved, there are plenty of reckless endangerment and negligence laws to cover someone buzzing a crowd and almost hitting people.

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      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    7. Re:How did this go to trial? by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Informative

      He didn't get in trouble because he was flying recklessly, but because he was trying to earn a living.

      No. This was specifically because he was being reckless. His videos showing him flying at street level through traffic, buzzing the hospital heliport, etc.

      The reason the FAA became aware of his asshattery is that he uses his jerky stunt flying to promote his business (he sells multirotor hardware, among other things). He's an attention whore, and puts together his videos with a deliberately provocative tone, and it caught up with him. The issue of commercial vs. hobby was incidental, and the administrative judge's ruling didn't speak to that directly anyway.

      Regardless, this isn't even a "final" ruling. For now, he's had his fine dropped. Heavy, onerous regulations are coming for RC/FPV operators, and it will be ugly (licensing, air worthiness certificates, medical exams, etc).

      Why should buzzing a crowd be okay, but buzzing a crowd FOR PROFIT be illegal?

      Buzzing a crowd isn't OK either way. Regardless of the state of the FAA's pending new regs, plenty of local laws against reckless endangerment can be brought to bear, and this sort of ruling is going to pour gas on the fire of a thousand local jurisdictions throwing together a patchwork nightmare of laws against Evil Drones. This ruling is actually a bad thing.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    8. Re:How did this go to trial? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the free market culture we have, it is very probable that the person filing the complaint (possibly anonymously) was the one who lost the bid for the job.

      Estimates of distance and portrayal of peril can be very subjective.

    9. Re:How did this go to trial? by dywolf · · Score: 3, Informative

      Also from the FAA's own page (http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=76240) there's a few concrete and relevent statements that cannot be ignored:

      -The FAA is responsible for the safety of U.S. airspace from the ground up.

      -Anyone who wants to fly an aircraft—manned or unmanned—in U.S. airspace needs some level of FAA approval.

      -Flying model aircraft solely for hobby or recreational reasons doesn’t require FAA approval, but hobbyists must operate according to the agency's model aircraft guidance, which prohibits operations in populated areas

      -You may not fly a UAS for commercial purposes by claiming that you’re operating according to the Model Aircraft guidelines (below 400 feet, 3 miles from an airport, away from populated areas.)

      -The agency is still developing regulations, policies and standards that will cover a wide variety of UAS users, and expects to publish a proposed rule for small UAS – under about 55 pounds – later this year. That proposed rule will likely include provisions for commercial operations.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    10. Re:How did this go to trial? by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It went to trial because HE sued the FAA.

      No, he didn't. The FAA fined him for operating recklessly, and he followed the usual administrative procedure to challenge that fine.

      That's not to say that some law suits aren't appropriate in this area - if for no other reason than that the FAA is ignoring legal mandates from Congress to get this area sensibly on the books in short order. The Obama administration, and their people running the agency in question (which is part of the executive branch) is, just as they're doing by randomly and unilaterally modifying and ignoring hard dates and requirements in the ACA, are just blowing off the law on this matter. That, in and of itself, has no bearing on the case in question, but it's causing this to be dragged out for no reason, as hundreds of millions in new economic activity is sitting on the sidelines holding its breath. Thanks, administration. We can tell what your priorities are.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    11. Re:How did this go to trial? by sycodon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You should be very skeptical of any claim of someone having to take "evasive measures". We have seen time and time again government workers make stuff up which later proved to be false when the defendant produces video.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    12. Re:How did this go to trial? by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I throw a rock at you, clearly you will have to duck.

      But the FAA's policies make specific reference to model aircraft, and repeatedly get into things like "guided" and "sustained" flight. Meaning, the reason an RC drone isn't a rock is that you're actually sending it, under control, through a sustained flight in the air. The FAA's authority begins an inch off the ground, not 100' or 10,000' - which is why they're still in charge of safety when a 747 is 1' off the runway, or 1,000' off the runway.

      but I'd say they would only have a case there if a helicopter were attempting to operate in the area and the guy kept flying his plane

      A hospital helipad is a 24x7 controlled bit of air space. And more to the point, the pilot in question is all about goggles-on FPV flight. He's seeing where he's going by watching through a small nose camera and a relatively low-res RF video downlink. The guy we're talking about ("Trappy" Pirker) makes a big deal about how he flies FPV out of line of sight. Flying that way, he's got absolutely no situational awareness (say, a medivac helicopter coming in from above or from the side, out of his FPV cam's forward view).

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    13. Re:How did this go to trial? by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      the FAA regulates the National Airspace System in which this RC aircraft was flying.

      The FAA only gets to regulate objects within the "airspace" within very narrow limits. It has deliberately tried to blur those limits to include RC devices as "aircraft". This judge slapped them down for overreach.

      Do I need a NOTAM to throw a frisbee, or fly a kite? And what magically happens to turn a 5 foot wide foam glider from an unregulated toy into a regulated "aircraft" because it was used commercially. Did it suddenly become more dangerous because the footage was going to be sold commercially, and if so... how did it know?

      It doesn't matter what you're flying,

      Judge seems to disagree.

      The FAA doesn't regulate cars, RC or otherwise so the RC car example is not relevant.

      Well done you for deliberately missing the point. That's always so productive.

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
  2. Re:he was being a dick by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Pirker operated the aircraft within about 50 feet of numerous individuals, about 20 feet of a crowded street, and within approximately 100 feet of an active heliport at UVA, the FAA alleged. One person had to take "evasive measures" to avoid being struck by the aircraft, the agency said."

    This must have been very frightening. How were the people present to know that the operator wasn't a muslim and the plane about to explode?

  3. Re:model plane != plane by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not really. A model plane is not a regular aircraft, but it is an "unmanned aircraft system", and he was using it commercially i.e. to shoot an advertisement video. Sounds to me that the FAA is right to assert that this falls under their regulation.

    However the article implies that there is more to the case: "As a general matter, the decision finds that the FAA's 2007 policy statement banning the commercial use of model aircraft is not enforceable". In other words, the judge didn't say that the rule was not broken, but that the rule itself is poorly drafted.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  4. Re:he was being a dick by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Informative

    Since when do muslims constitute a race? Silly as that statement is, racism it aint.

    With that said, no terrorist of any persuasion would be so dumb as to stick a (tiny) bomb in an R/C plane. There are much easier and effective ways to blow up people.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  5. Re:he was being a dick by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    arial

    Aerial.

    Once again, don't try to write words you've only heard, not seen in print.

    And special caveat, don't use "The Little Mermaid" as a guide to how to spell "aerial"....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  6. Re: model plane != plane by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes!

    The DJI Phantom is a 'toy' that is causing them A LOT of problems with morons who can buy it, fly it, and get in trouble with it. They are in fact specifically mentioned in some FAA reports as they decide on how to deal with these issues.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  7. Re:I was once a drone pilot, he says in a hushed t by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No, you were never a drone pilot.

    You were an RC aircraft pilot.

    The FCC governs radio rules, we're talking about the FAA, which governs airspace.

    You were bound by the same laws as this guy for your aircraft to NOT be a drone. Once you break these rules, you become a drone and as such require full certification.

    RC aircraft MUST be below 400 feet AGL.
    RC aircraft MUST remain in line of site of the operator.
    RC aircraft MUST NOT be operated for ANY commercial purpose.

    If you break any of those you MUST have a waiver or a Certificate of Airworthiness for the aircraft (just like all commercial aircraft, including that Cessna some guy you know has) or you are breaking the law.

    You were never allowed to fly your glider within 10 miles of controlled airport, and 2 or 5 miles of an uncontrolled airport. Ever.

    Your ignorance of these rules does not mean they didn't exist.

    FYI: I built and flew my first Gentle Lady (from Carl Goldberg!) when I was 14 :)

    I've lost line of sight to my aircraft, not a good feeling when you are aware of how much damage EVEN a Gentle Lady could do if it hit someone in the head with that hardwood nose at 20 knots or so that they fly. Light they are, but still significant mass.

    Now ... however, my aircraft ARE drones (all have ArduPilot or ArduCopters controllers in them now), now when I lose line of sight, I flip a transmitter switch and the aircraft brings itself home via autopilot ... it goes into fully autonomous mode and comes home :) Of course, this is exactly what the FAA wants to avoid since that 'flight home' has at times involved flying into the side of a house as it tried to regain altitude for the trip home. That bird was a lost cause anyway, but none the less, one can argue it never would have hit the house had it followed the original rules.

    My son was born last year, I already ordered him a Gentle Lady to build, and a Sophisticated Lady for myself (The gentle lady with a T tail and electric motor instead of winch/tow/upstart launch.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  8. Re:model plane != plane by dywolf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes. And the FAA has cited kites that fly too high, or are too large, or carry rather large payload. Or some combination thereof.

    No, the FAA generally doesn't care about your little backyard peice of paper on a string. Just dont fly it near and airport and intentionally try to get it sucked into a jet engine.

    However people have made kites a few hundred feet across, weighing a few hundred pounds, and capable flying thousands of feet in the air. The FAA starts to care about that. Particularly if it could interfer with aircraft.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  9. Never Underestimate... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Never Underestimate the drive of any government agency to expand its sphere of influence and control. Whether its the FAA wanting to control a park full of kids and their radio control toys or the IRS making up laws out of whole cloth, they never miss an opportunity to take more control.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  10. Re:FAA & Public Safety by ray-auch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If someone is appearing to be reckless with their aircraft, regardless of the type, it needs to be addressed.

    Then address it under the laws about being reckless with a model aircraft, or being reckless with any other type of potential weapon - which is something the police would deal with (and I think have in past cases, e.g. where RC helicopter killed someone in NY).

    The FAA tried to prosecute the guy for not having a licence, because (they claimed) it was a commercial flight. This would have massive implications for model a/c flyers who would all require pilots licences. It was a huge attempted land-grab (or simply laziness on the part of the prosecutor not wanting to collect the evidence to charge him with assault or whatever, so we'll just nail him with this licence thing) and the judge saw through it.

    It's like a parent on the school run (allegedly) runs a few red lights and drives on the sidewalk, so the city decides to prosecute them for not having a taxi licence because they were giving a lift to another child.

        "but if we accept this, it means that every parent who ever gives a lift to another child would need a taxi licence"
        "no, that's not the point - the city has a responsibility for taxi safety, if this parent was reckless with their car, regardless of type, it needs to be addressed"

    It is the point - address the recklessness, not the lack of a licence that was never needed in the first place (and a licence which, as far as I can see the FAA doesn't actually issue, yet - only experimental/non-commercial approvals - in other words they were prosecuting him for not having a licence that he couldn't possibly get).

    Also, the FAA claim that the original guidance for model aircraft (ac91-57) excludes commercial use - love to see someone quote where it does, as the word "commercial" does not appear in it, at all. They are probably trying to argue that being a "model aircraft" necessarily means being non-commercial but that is ridiculous as it would always have been possible to e.g. hire/rent a model aircraft for money, which would be a commercial. Even a model shop demoing an RC a/c for sale would be commercial.