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Volkswagen Chairman: Cars Must Not Become 'Data Monsters'
Nerval's Lobster writes "While automakers from Tokyo to Detroit rush to sprinkle their respective vehicles with all sorts of sensors and screens, the chairman of Volkswagen Group has warned about the limits of data analytics for automobiles. 'The car must not become a data monster,' Martin Winterkorn told an audience at the CeBit trade show in Germany, according to Re/code. 'I clearly say yes to Big Data, yes to greater security and convenience, but no to paternalism and Big Brother.' At the same time, Winterkorn endorsed a closer relationship between tech companies such as IBM and the auto industry, and highlighted Volkswagen's experiments with autonomous driving—both of which will necessarily infuse automakers (and his company in particular) with more data-driven processes. The question is which policies from which entities will ultimately dictate how that data is used. Winterkorn isn't the first individual to voice concerns about how automakers (and their partners) store and analyze all that vehicle data. At this January's Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, a Ford executive drew considerable controversy by suggesting that Ford collects detailed information on how customers use its vehicles. 'We know everyone who breaks the law, we know when you're doing it. We have GPS in your car, so we know what you're doing. By the way, we don't supply that data to anyone,' Jim Farley, Ford's global vice president of marketing and sales, told show attendees. Farley later attempted to clarify his statement to Business Insider, but that didn't stop a fierce debate over vehicle monitoring—and certainly hasn't stopped automakers and tech companies from collaborating over more ways to integrate data-centric features to vehicles."
Not only do you not have a computer overriding your throttle stomp, you avoid big brother with an old car.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
We have GPS in your car, so we know what you're doing
No, you don't, because I unplugged the GPS antenna (since I don't actually have a nav system), leaving your hardwired spyware trapped uselessly deep inside in a big Faraday cage.
/ Not actually a Ford, but if you don't think the same applies to any new car, I have a bridge to sell you.
"'We know everyone who breaks the law, we know when you're doing it. We have GPS in your car, so we know what you're doing."
What a grandiose statement. Aside from the fact that their data is limited to the car, so they can't possibly know who is mugging someone in a dark alley (which is a law-breaking act), they can't possibly even know who is doing what illegal act within the car. For example:
1. How do they know who is driving the car?
2. How do they know what the state of a traffic signal is at the point in time the car enters an intersection?
3. How do they know that the car failed to yield to a pedestrian at a crosswalk or an intersection?
Oh, Farley is the VP of *marketing*? I understand now. An engineer wouldn't say anything so dumb.
Hey, Ford - you're committing a felony under the CFAA. I use my car to go to the store and buy stuff, participating in Interstate Commerce. That make the car's computer a "protected computer" under the act. By accessing GPS info, you're "intentionally access[ing] a computer without authorization... and thereby obtain[ing]... information from any protected computer."
That subjects you to "a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both," since it's being done for commercial advantage.
And no, even if you got some sort of explicit ToS waiver from the original purchaser of the car, that doesn't extend to any used car buyer.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
So . . . whaddya suppose the odds are any auto manufacturer is going to base the vehicle's fundamental operations on an open source hardware/software stack?
Well, but it was also a car Ferdinand Porsche designed.
So, if you've ever said, I wish I could buy a Porsche-- well, you can.
(the one I want is the Schwimmwagen, though!)
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Cars should not become "data monsters", distracting drivers...for the next 10 years or so until they become robot driver cars.
This whine is a brief interstice between the olden days and the rest of the future. "I don't like buggy whips 'cause it's mean to horses!", screams an irrelevant goofball in 1902.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
There may be a market out there for innovative use of side cutters on antenna wires.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
(the one I want is the Schwimmwagen, though!)
Wow, this is new for Slashdot! Most folks complain that they want a flying car . . . and here you are, and say that you would be happy with one that just swims!
Here you go . . . pick one out: http://www.vw166.com/
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Whatever makes you think that? Many electronic components in cars reduce cost, weight, and fuel usage. Take for example variable electrical valve timing. That reduces the complexity of the engine, and replaces some complex mechanical parts with lighter, cheaper electrical ones. It increases fuel efficiency, and engine power, while reducing weight and cost.
(the one I want is the Schwimmwagen, though!)
Kubelwagen!
Old VW car names are so much fun to say.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
The concept of the Internet of Things thrives on the fact that there will be literally "billions and billions" of embedded devices with internet connectivity, sensors, all sending back to servers, which then use Big Data processing methods to discover hidden information.
Knowing the traction on car wheels and vibration on suspension systems will allow councils to determine which segments of road need resurfacing.
Knowing the speed of cars will tell them which areas of freeways are starting to clog up (before they gridlock).
Knowing the usage pattern of roads allows them to adjust traffic lights accordingly.
Maybe traffic light systems could be made smarter by dynamically adjusting the timing due to motion on the roads.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Whatever makes you think that? Many electronic components in cars reduce cost, weight, and fuel usage. Take for example variable electrical valve timing. That reduces the complexity of the engine, and replaces some complex mechanical parts with lighter, cheaper electrical ones.
Ah, no - VTEC or VVT actually increases curb weight, because instead of replacing mechanical components they actually supplement them with electronics (and, in some cases, more mechanical components - VTEC engines have an extra camshaft, for example). Now, Ferrari has an interesting way of doing things that does require less components, but as Ferrari is a niche-market supercar, their tech doesn't really fit into this discussion.
Regardless, you are right about such systems improving mileage and performance, despite the (usually negligible) weight gain.
That is, of course, assuming you don't have a source of some new VVT tech I'm not privy to?
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Your mistake is in believing that this sort of tech will be used to help the common man, rather than help screw him over with more fees, fines, and taxes.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
(the one I want is the Schwimmwagen, though!)
Wow, this is new for Slashdot! Most folks complain that they want a flying car
Wait, I want to change my order...
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
It scares me too - I'd imagine local shop owners would just love to send junk mail out to every driver that passed their store. Not forgetting the privacy loss due to anything with a microphone, camera and wireless connection.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
I don't buy new laptops anymore, they have all turned to shit. Keyboards that are lousy for the one job they need to do, touchpads that are worse, boot systems that lock you out, mandatory online account association, malignant operating systems... thank Torvalds performance vs. necessity peaked years ago. I can just keep buying used machines made before this computing cancer spread to the bones.
Same goes for cars. Boneheaded infotainment systems, I-can't-let-you-do-that-Dave electronic nannies, idiotic maintenance restrictions, needless complexities... fortunately, old cars run just fine. They look better, too.
Take a real world counterexample.
Toyota had a problem. All the accessories on the tailgate of their 4runners required a big old bundle of wires from the dash to the tailgate. That was heavy and expensive.
So, they add a micro-controller. Now all they need is one power and one data to the tailgate and power wires from the micro-controller to the accessories. As an added bonus the micro-controller is a frequent service item, so they make more money on parts, though they lose a little on warranty work.
Fortunately they had the sense not to run the brake lights off the micro-controller. Almost like they knew it was going to be under engineered to power a wiper motor in the real world.
Which is better then VW, I've seen the state of taillights of a new bug get out of synch. e.g. it looks like the right brake light is out, then it comes back after 3 or 4 brake presses. Apparently random on car start.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Coming?
Here and done.
Gold rush on 5th gen Civics? Not yet.
CRXs are hard to find and not nearly as cheap as they used to be. Put a HF engine and 6 speed into a CRX! Woot!
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I'm fine with my car storing data up to a point. It shouldn't be accessible to anyone short of some "black box" data in the event of an accident. Beyond that, what would anyone truly need the data for?
That's not an option for US companies. If you can collect the data, the government can collect the data from you. If the NSA asks for the data, you hand it over... unless you are prepared to out Lavabit style.
fortunately, old cars run just fine. They look better, too.
If you're chasing performance, you want a new car. The new cars don't just have better performance, they also have better handling. For reliability and ride comfort, it is nigh-impossible to beat my 1982 (any 1981-1985, really) 300SD. It really depends on what you're after.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Well, but it was also a car Ferdinand Porsche designed.
So, if you've ever said, I wish I could buy a Porsche-- well, you can.
Conversely, if you've ever said "It's not a Beetle", $mdash; well, it is. Today it's even owned by VAG, so it's double extra-plus a squashed beetle.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
(and, in some cases, more mechanical components - VTEC engines have an extra camshaft, for example).
No, no they don't. They have additional lobes on the cam, and the cam is shifted side to side. In spite of this apparently victorian arrangement, VTEC is as reliable as the sunrise. My latest car has VVT on a[n Audi] V8. It has a degreeing actuator attached to one cam on each head. That substantially increases the parts count, which doesn't stop at the actuators.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
CRXs are hard to find and not nearly as cheap as they used to be.
But they are exactly as much of a deathtrap as they used to be. The CRX is one of the least-safe cars around, especially on the American road where it has to try to coexist with land yachts and land barges.
Put a HF engine and 6 speed into a CRX! Woot!
Once you get done bringing it up to vaguely modern levels of safety, which can only feasibly be done by installing a roll cage, you won't want it any more. At least, not on the street.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
(and, in some cases, more mechanical components - VTEC engines have an extra camshaft, for example).
No, no they don't. They have additional lobes on the cam, and the cam is shifted side to side. In spite of this apparently victorian arrangement, VTEC is as reliable as the sunrise.
Further reading supports this - apparently the good folks at HowStuffWorks.com did not research their material very well. My bad.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I'll bet they love the Google auto-car = you can get away with a lot more intrusive in-vehicle advertising when there's no safety risk of distracting the driver.
I'm thinking like the Jaws ad from Back to the Future II, but right in the middle of the passenger compartment.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
You think only SUV's and trucks are to blame for small, flimsy car deaths? Just about every modern vehicle is much more heavy and sturdy than the older flimsy Japanese cars. I had a friend who died in a crash in 2007 when some dick going upwards of 80 MPH ( on a side street with a 30MPH limit) in a late model Toyota hit him in the rear corner when he failed to cut around him. He was driving a 1989 Nissan Sentra which was pretty much tin foil with wheels. His car veered off the road, the front corner hit a pole which whipped the drivers side into a tree next to the pole. He died on impact while his girlfriend barely survived. She was in a wheelchair for about a year. The fucked up part? The car belonging to the kid who hit him was also totalled but he and his girlfriend walked away. The modern safety features of the Toyota saved them. The cops had told my friends parents that if he were in a more modern vehicle, he would have most likely survived. I even told him to get rid of that "flimsy death trap" not more than a month or two before. But he loved that car too much to part with it.
At the end of the day it's all about mass. Wouldn't be much better off in a new Fit, much less a Smart.
My 1960 Saratoga (model) was banned from demolition derby for being made of plate metal (almost) not sheet. It sucks to drive due to the 4 wheel drum brakes and 6k lbs weight. Turns heads better then a Ferrari. Another reason not to drive it is that people are so busy trying to figure out what it is, they forget to avoid it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
After much reflection, and even making some other posts in this discussion, I figured out what the insightful comment would look like — thanks to your subject.
The real winners in the gold rush, with few exceptions, were not prospectors. They were shopkeepers who sold equipment to prospectors, and saloon owners who ran gambling establishments.
Have you priced restoration parts recently? Yowza.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"