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Apple Demands $40 Per Samsung Phone For 5 Software Patents

An anonymous reader writes "Apple and Samsung couldn't agree on a patent cross-license even though their CEOs met recently. What could be the reason (or one of the reasons) is that Apple is asking for obscenely high patent royalties. At the March 31 trial an Apple-hired expert will present to a California jury (already the third jury trial in this dispute) a damages claim of $40 per device (phone or tablet) for just a handful of software patents. The patents are related to, but don't cover all aspects and elements of, functionalities like slide-to-unlock, autocorrect, data synchronization, unified search and the famous tap-on-phone-number-to-dial feature. Google says there are 250,000 patentable inventions in a smartphone. On average, Apple wants $8 per patent per device. That would add a patent licensing bill of $2 million to each gadget. So Apple and Samsung will be back to court again later this month."

11 of 406 comments (clear)

  1. How are those kind of things patentable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of this thing is just common sense technological progress. If Apple didn't come up with it, someone else inevitably would have. There wasn't any spark of genius required.

    1. Re:How are those kind of things patentable? by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A smartphone is a computer. The reason that phones are getting better, is because the technology underpinning computers is getting better. More powerful computers allow for better user interfaces. It's not like no one thought of making a nice UI for a phone before Apple. It's that it wasn't possible until technology reached a certain point. Apple was just the first company to really exploit these advances in technology to do the obvious.

      Allowing these sorts of obvious patents is harmful to society.

      Apple doesn't get to take credit for computers getting smaller and more powerful.

    2. Re:How are those kind of things patentable? by SQLGuru · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've solved plenty of problems in novel ways. I've also solved problems based on a post I found on Stack Overflow.

      My main complaint is that software patents don't reveal how to implement them. So I can't know whether I've devised a new and novel way of sliding to unlock or not. Software patents are akin to patenting "engines" and suing for billions when the rotary engine even though you invented the carburated combustion engine

    3. Re:How are those kind of things patentable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most of us have no problem giving Apple a "job well done" for the iPhone, what we object to is the notion that everyone else should have to pay them for it even when they're not buying an iPhone.

    4. Re: How are those kind of things patentable? by harlequinn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Treating a phone number like a hyperlink is very obvious. Of course the vast, vast majority of older devices, like "those...before 2000" didn't have touch screens to be able to easily implement it.

    5. Re: How are those kind of things patentable? by sonamchauhan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      'Better engineered' != 'deserving of patent protection'

    6. Re: How are those kind of things patentable? by Chas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's the thing, the design was NOT unique.
      It was an obvious modification of an existing paradigm brought about by the touch interface itself.
      The iOS interface isn't a revolution. It's an evolution with sexy window dressings and a bunch of self-important turtleneckers crowing about how INVENTIVE they are.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
  2. for the record by Cederic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple are acting like total cunts.

    Whether they're in the right or wrong, under current patent law, they're still acting like total cunts.

    No comment on how that compares to their customers.

  3. The term of art is "obvious." by GodInHell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're not allowed to patent an obvious advancement.

    But patent law is offensively fucked up. Basically, it's a war of money. Both sides line up patent lawyers (one of a very few formally recognized specializations for attorneys in the U.S.) and burn money until someone gives up. This case will almost certainly wind up before the Supreme Court eventually - unless Samsung folds and pays to make apple go away. Fortunately, Samsung is sufficiently profitable that it can saturate the process with more money than required and write it off as a margin cost for continuing to compete in the smartphone market.

    Apple's patents are offensively bad. There *is* enough there to require a jury verdict to nullify them rather than a summary ruling by the Court (preferably one where the foreman doesn't lie about having a personal stake in proving that software patents are nearly always valid - like the last trial between these two) but in a sane system of patents there would be no question that "slide to unlock" is a variation of long established design concepts - i.e. a latch.

    1. Re:The term of art is "obvious." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apple's patents are offensively bad. There *is* enough there to require a jury verdict to nullify them rather than a summary ruling by the Court (preferably one where the foreman doesn't lie about having a personal stake in proving that software patents are nearly always valid - like the last trial between these two) but in a sane system of patents there would be no question that "slide to unlock" is a variation of long established design concepts - i.e. a latch.

      Apple had better watch it, their arrogant attitude is going to get their patents invalidated in the US (about the only place they are still valid). Many, including "slide to unlock" have already been invalidated in Europe - http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/07/05/1325241/in-uk-htc-defeats-apples-obvious-slide-unlock-patent or http://apple.slashdot.org/story/13/04/06/210232/german-court-finds-apples-slide-to-unlock-patent-invalid - besides, Apple technically doesn't own the patent on "slide to unlock" anyway, Micron does http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/31/171239/micron-lands-broad-slide-to-unlock-patent

  4. "The Last Lone Inventor" by Evan I. Schwartz by MSG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I finished a book a while ago that I think really illustrates why software patents are objectionable, and what's wrong with the patent system as a whole, today.

    The book is "The Last Lone Inventor" by Evan I. Schwartz. It describes the work of Philo T. Farnsworth to create television. During the time that Philo was working on television, many scientists employed by the radio industry were also working to develop usable video transmission technology, with inferior designs. Most of their work involved mechanical television cameras that used spinning wheels. Philo's invention was all electronic. It scanned, transmitted, and displayed a line at a time to create a two dimensional image. This remained the fundamental technology in displays at least until LCD and plasma screens replaced CRT.

    Now, while many other patent related problems were well demonstrated by the book, the one most clearly related to software patents pertains to the intent of the patent system. Patents are not, as they are often regarded today, a recognition that an inventor owns his ideas. Ideas are not property, and have never been recognized as such. Patents are a recognition that some inventions rely on information that isn't obvious. Some inventions require the inventors to test and improve their inventions for years before they can be brought to market. Underlying the patent system is the belief that this work will not be done, that inventors will not fund years of experimentation and development, if they don't believe that they'll be able to sell that invention to recover the costs of its development. In a free market, competitors will be able to offer the same invention at a lower cost than its inventor, because the competitors did not have to invest in the development of the invention. Patents attempt to create an incentive to invent by ensuring that inventors who do invest in development are given a limited monopoly on their invention.

    However, patents aren't free. It is not enough for the inventor to merely offer his invention to the market to receive patent protection on it. An inventor is also required to completely disclose how the invention works. After the patent period expires, the public must be able to continue using the invention independent of the inventor.

    That is the fundamental purpose of the patent system: to benefit the public by providing it with the knowledge required to reproduce the invention. It is the public's benefit, not the inventors, that is the goal of the patent system. The inventor's benefit is simply the means to achieve that goal. The Constitution of the United States reflects this:
    To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries

    Philo's work was exactly the progress of science that the patent system was intended to promote. His invention required tremendous investment to create. His idea was sound, but a great deal of experimentation was required to create a working device. Other highly skilled scientists were not able to create a working device on their own, or created working devices of significantly lesser quality. The exact properties of the materials and components used in the camera and television set were not previously known, and were discovered through Philo T. Farnsworth's experimentation and development.

    The invention of television was worthy of patent protection.

    Software development isn't like the invention of television in ANY way.

    Software development does involve testing cycles, but otherwise almost never involves the kind of experimentation involved in the invention of television, because the exact properties of computer operations are previously known. Computers perform a limited number of operations, exactly according to a specification, and exactly the same every time. Because the behavior of the system is known in advance, the uncertainty inherent in real world material inventions does not exist in software development.