Eric Schmidt On Why College Is Still Worth It

An anonymous reader writes "The wisdom of getting a college degree and saddling yourself with a huge amount of debt has been called into question recently, but not by Eric Schmidt. The Google Chairman says it's still worth it, noting that: 'The economic return to higher education over a lifetime produces significant compound greater earnings.' From the article: 'When asked about the difficulty in paying for college, Schmidt was adamant: "I appreciate it's expensive and we need to fix that," he said, but "figure out a way to do it." One potential problem with Schmidt's statement is that it was an argument for the average student. It may be more advantageous for students at the bottom and top quartiles of the talent distribution to go straight into the workforce (or get vocational training). Case in point, Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of college, and I don't think anybody would say he made a mistake.'"

Comments

He didn't make a mistake?

[Moof123]

With hindsight Zuckerberg made no mistake. But for every Zuckerberg who drops out and makes Billions anyway, there many more with equally good ideas that tried a similar path, and through worse luck ended up going bust. Anecdotes are not data.

Re:He didn't make a mistake?

[93 Escort Wagon]

Yeah, holding up examples of successful dropouts like Zuckerberg and drawing inferences from that is nothing more than confirmation bias. It's well established that, looking at the overall population, college grads earn more than non-grads. It's probably also true, overall, that college grads are happier with their jobs than non-grads (although I'm too lazy to look that up). I wouldn't be surprised if they live longer as well, given they probably have better health care.

Re:He didn't make a mistake?

[Jane Q. Public]

"With hindsight Zuckerberg made no mistake. But for every Zuckerberg who drops out and makes Billions anyway, there many more with equally good ideas that tried a similar path, and through worse luck ended up going bust. Anecdotes are not data."

And I'm wondering why OP places Zuckerberg in "the top quartile of talent". He's an unscrupulous guy who got lucky and made a fortune from a website made in PHP, built on an idea he stole from someone else.

So what?

Re:He didn't make a mistake?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. And did he dropout before or after he had a successful enterprise going? And did he utilize any of the resources/education available at Harvard to begin said enterprise? The answer to those questions is "yes", so I really don't see how he is an example of successful-but-didnt-go-to-college... because he did.

Going bust not unique to drop-outs

[SuperKendall]

there many more with equally good ideas that tried a similar path, and through worse luck ended up going bust.

But they at least had the experience of running a business. There are PLENTY more people that finished college, amassed crippling debt, and ALSO went bust - only they ended up with a degree that had no value for getting a job, and debt that is impossible to discharge. At least the dropout who failed had a debt that could be shed in bankruptcy, if they even amassed debt to run a business!

Re:Going bust not unique to drop-outs

[BasilBrush]

All genuine degrees have value in getting a job. Some more than others, for sure. But put a candidate who has a degree up against an otherwise similar one who doesn't and the one with a degree has the advantage.

Not only the advantage of a line on their CV. But the practical advantage of the skills they've gained, and the character that has been built. These will help them with the job search and interview.

Of course if they are applying for a job very much below their level, the degree candidate may be rejected as "over qualified". But that just means they are applying for inappropriate jobs. Or perhaps more likely that they simply didn't interview well and it was an easy excuse for the employer.

Experience running and business and going bankrupt is going to count for far less, when subsequently seeking employment. And may even be a negative.

Re:Going bust not unique to drop-outs

[BasilBrush]

There are people smarter than myself without degrees.

Sure. And in most cases they'd do better than they do with a degree.

There are morons who have master degrees who I had to let go because they are book smarts but can't do shit in the real world without the deer in the headlights look when independent analysis and goals are needed.

Sure, but they wouldn't be better had they not got a degree.

But in a down economy it means you get that internship or entry level job with the foot in that door. While HR ignores you unless you have many years of experience and letters of recommendation even for the most basic entry level jobs today.

Right, there comes a point at which your work experience becomes more important than the degree. But the point is you are at an advantage in getting that necessary experience if you start out with a degree. For people too young to have an outstanding working history, that HR door is solidly closed.

If it's hard right now for young people with degrees to get a worthwhile job, it's massively harder for young people without a degree.

Re:Going bust not unique to drop-outs

[pla]

There are people smarter than myself without degrees. There are morons who have master degrees who I had to let go because they are book smarts but can't do shit in the real world without the deer in the headlights look when independent analysis and goals are needed.

You can always find people both better and worse than you at everything, both from the pool of "amateurs" and from supposed experts. Just a fact of life.

I'll take a bold stance and say right up front that you get out of college what you put into it - If you want, you really can get a solid education even from a crap college; and on the flip side of that, you can sleep your way through quite a few majors and still end up with a degree. That said - On average, I would say a college degree proves one, and only one, thing about you - That you had the ability to learn enough, and follow directions enough, to complete the basic requirements of that degree... And that already puts you in the top third of applicants, even if you smoked your way through a humanities major.

Now, as watered down as that may sound, I don't mean it as quite that weak of a stance - In practice, the real world will never require 90% of what you learned in college, and college didn't teach you 90% of what you need for a real job. College does not, and should not, equal vocational training. It (can) give you the foundation you need to excel, and demonstrates to employers that you at least don't count as a complete waste of flesh. Anything more than that - Pure cake.

Re:Going bust not unique to drop-outs

[war4peace]

That said - On average, I would say a college degree proves one, and only one, thing about you - That you had the ability to learn enough, and follow directions enough, to complete the basic requirements of that degree... And that already puts you in the top third of applicants, even if you smoked your way through a humanities major.

HR: "this guy is perfect as a corporate drone".
Hiring Manager: "OK, make him an offer."

Two years ago I applied for a position at a large It company (*ahem*Dell*ahem*). I was nixed because I was a college drop-out (for financial reasons but who the fuck cares) and a graduate was chosen. They never actually said that (never provided any feedback except the ubiquitous "we gonna call you"), but I knew because I have friends working there. Last year they asked me to come to a "final" interview. I asked them on the phone what happened with their graduate who they had chosen and they lied to me, said he left the company for another opportunity (I knew for a fact he was fired for being incompetent). I told them to fuck off and find another graduate, because apparently the previous one was great, since he moved forward, wasn't he?

Not saying graduates suck, but choosing one over another simply because of an extra piece of paper is retarded. But that's really not surprising when you apply for a large company with a fucked up culture.

Mod parent up!

[khasim]

The entire article is stupid. And the Zuckerberg example was just the worst stupidity in it.

"I appreciate it's expensive and we need to fix that," he said, but "figure out a way to do it."

Those two statements have ZERO correlation with each other.

Going into debt for college is EASY. There's no need to "figure out a way to do it". You sign the loan papers and take the classes.

The problem is paying off that loan AFTER you leave college. Whether via graduation or because you cannot get anyone to give you any more debt to finish.

It may be more advantageous for students at the bottom and top quartiles of the talent distribution to go straight into the workforce (or get vocational training).

Again, wrong. Talent only applies to the top percentage. And even then it is VERY risky.

If you don't have the talent then you don't have the talent. That has nothing to do with skipping college.

FUNDING is the reason to skip college and hit votech. If your family cannot afford to pay for college then votech might be your best option. Why start this generation with massive debt that you might not be able to pay off? Start saving for your child's education.

Re:Mod parent up!

[exomondo]

The problem is paying off that loan AFTER you leave college.

The Australian system seems to work very well. Their degrees are government-funded loans that are only subject to interest based on inflation and I believe you pay it back by your employer deducting repayments from your pre-tax income after you start earning over a specified threshold (which I think is somewhere in the $45k region). The amount of your repayments is calculated and adjusted based on your income but you do get additional discounts for paying off lump sums yourself.

Let them eat cake

[Kohath]

Billionaire says "figure out a way to" pay for it. Meanwhile, he will be figuring out ways to collude with other companies to keep your salary low and to bring in thousands of people from Asia to compete with you for jobs.

Re:Pays off until you have your job offshored

[Billly Gates]

Increasing the supply of trained workers lowers the cost - economics 101.

Of course tech companies always more workers, even if they are looking to offshore as much as they can, and replace the rest with visa workers. But, just in case, doesn't hurt to lower the cost of domestic workers.

Forget the situation today, look towards the future. There is no way for western workers to compete with third world wages.

You know I have heard this on slashdot for 10 dang years!

The worst advice I ever took in 2004 was that computer science was a waste of time and so was engineering! They would pay $12/hr by 2014 due to Indians taking jobs etc. Go get that useless business degree.

Let me tell you that was the worst advise I have ever taken.

My friends who graduated even in 2008 all make $70,000. I ended up unemployed, divorced, and moved back into my parents in my 30's as no one would hire people with a business degree.

It took 2 years just to get back into the white collar market. Working 13/hr and then 15/hr then 18/hr and up while I lived at home because I got my degree in the wrong area because people like you said NO TO IT H1B1 will take it all.

I am now starting to make ok in IT again but lost 5 years of my life and marriage since I had to work any call center or low wage job I could find and worked for free paying my student loans.