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GCHQ and NSA Targeted World Leaders, Private German Companies

Posted by Soulskill on from the caught-with-your-hand-in-the-cookie-jar dept.

Advocatus Diaboli sends this news from Der Spiegel: "Documents show that Britain's GCHQ intelligence service infiltrated German Internet firms and America's NSA obtained a court order to spy on Germany and collected information about the chancellor in a special database. Is it time for the country to open a formal espionage investigation? ... A secret NSA document dealing with high-ranking targets has provided further indications that Merkel was a target. The document is a presentation from the NSA's Center for Content Extraction, whose multiple tasks include the automated analysis of all types of text data. The lists appear to contain 122 country leaders. Twelve names are listed as an example, including Merkel's."

21 of 145 comments (clear)

  1. @people from the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Could someone from the US please tell me and convince me why Germany should still be friends with the USA? 'Cause the USA are certainly NOT behaving like a friend. More like a foe and bully who thinks Germany is an enemy.

    1. Re:@people from the US by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Informative

      The US actually is the schoolyard bully of international politics. Just in case someone hasn't noticed that yet. The US exhibits every behaviour of the classic schoolyard bully. He beats up the weaker kids but does not want to get into a fight with anyone that could stand up for himself. He steals the lunch money from those that can't defend themselves. Or, in a more modern form, the bully "buys" your cellphone for a buck so you can't say he stole it from you. He bought it, see? Same goes for resources, on an international scale. Should a teacher (or the UN) take a stern look at them, they'll start smooching up to them and pretend that they're gonna help the teacher to keep the smaller bullies in reign, and since that's quite comfortable, they'll gladly take that offer.

      International politics and schoolyard politics ain't that different. It's the same shit on a bigger scale, that's all, but the silly billys are the same.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:@people from the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Citation needed.

      Yes. Germany has it's intelligence service (called BND. Bundesnachrichtendienst), but it does nowhere the same things with the same scope as what the NSA is doing. Not even close. And in particular not on a supposed ally and friend. Why are you an ally if you can't trust them?

      You are paranoid. You (the US) think that everyone is your enemy. Guess who has the same stance? North Korea.
      And ironically that's exactly what will one day isolate you, like North Korea. Distrusting and bullying everyone will one day make actually everyone your real enemy.

    3. Re:@people from the US by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nonsense. WWII could have been completely avoided if we knew about the plans to remilitarizr the rhine before it happened. A german genersl wrote in his diary that if any of the countries party to the treaty of versalles would have enforced the terms of the treaty, germany would have been stopped well before it became a war.

      We now know that Russia tried to colapse the US dollar in 2008 and china took steps to avoid it because of how heavily invested they were at the time. We know sanctions did not work on Iraq leaving war as a likely option because France and Russia exploited the oil for food program to get sweat deals on oil from Iraq in excess of sanctioned amounts with corruption in the UN reaching as far up as the family of Kofi Annan- the then secretary general of the UN (the highest ranking position there).

      Spying on friendly countries is a neccesity. Those counties mrntion were all friendly at the time. Taking actions specifically keeps conflicts to a smaller scale unlike with WWII. You have a lot to learn it would seem. Even your so called comparisons of school yard bullies are off.

    4. Re:@people from the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >WWII could have been completely avoided if we knew about the plans to remilitarizr the rhine before it happened.

      ROFL. The most delusional comment of the day.

      Remind me again why sanction on the Iraq were necessary? And why the 2nd Iraq war was justified. Please say WMD. I want to laugh.

      > France and Russia exploited the oil for food program

      Oh noes! As opposed to the US and the Dick Chaney company who are now exploiting the Iraq and enforcing sweet sweet deals? Pot meet kettle.
       

  2. Re:Feelings hurt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since USAian's hurt feelings are a matter of national security, NSA is well within the law for collecting info about what Germans think.

    What?

    Germany is a powerful country. It's leadership - whoever it is - is going to be spied upon by every nation with the resources to do so.

    Or do you really think countries like China, Russia, and even France don't spy on German leaders?

  3. Re:Feelings hurt by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But you're not supposed to get caught!

  4. Re:Good for the NSA by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You are aware that the US still kinda depend on international trade, yes? And that said trade in the US is kinda dependent on exporting high tech equipment?

    Now, could you see that this could get mighty complicated if every nation out there starts to distrust everything remotely electronic coming from your place?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. Re:Good for the NSA by erikkemperman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fuck all these other countries. You can't stop us anyway, we are the mightiest, richest, most powrerful nation on Earth and we do whatever the fuck we want.

    And Americans wonder why they have a reputation for being both arrogant and uninformed...

    Ironically, this is exactly what many of the beneficiaries of, um, your foreign policy would love you to do: take all your military kit and, respectfully, piss off.

    The problem is that your trampling on "weaker" nations is kind of a large part of your being "mighty" and rich (well, one marginal fraction of you anyway) and your leaders are unlikely to give that up.

    --
    Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
  6. Putin got it right by roscocoltran · · Score: 4, Informative

    Following the shutdown of services from Mastercard and Visa in Russia, he is pushing for a russian payment system. At least he is facing his responsibilities, not like european leaders who, even facing the evidence that they are spied, won't do anything and still rely on US products.

    We must ban Cisco equipment and Microsoft/Apple systems from our governments offices, once and for all. There are alternative solutions available, let's develop them, let's deploy them. Before, there was a risk. Now there is a fact. So what are we waiting for ?

  7. Re:Everyone Spies.. by geekbastard · · Score: 2

    Get used to it.. Stop being butthurt and increase your security.

    That ranks right up there with 'if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear'.

  8. Re:Spy agencies spying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And if this news was about Russians caught spying on USA and Britain, there'd be a bunch of people foaming at the mouth declaring "act of war" instead of the recently common "oh well, that's just what they do" dismissive brush-off.

    Hypocrites everywhere.

  9. Futile gesture by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    Better safe than sorry, I reckon. Wouldn't want them to bomb Pearl Harbor again.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re: Futile gesture by Type44Q · · Score: 2
      Are you sure about that? It's quite clear from the historical record that that's exactly what "we" wanted then (the Axis were extremely reluctant to drag the "sleeping giant" into the war, at least until we forced their hand in Indonesia) and it's well understood that Washington had advance knowledge of the impending attack at Pearl and didn't warn the Fleet...

      Do you really think things have changed so much that T.P.T.B. would be able to resist another opportunity to manipulate our nationalistic sensibilities so effectively? Me thinks not. ;)

    2. Re: Futile gesture by Maritz · · Score: 2

      and it's well understood that Washington had advance knowledge of the impending attack at Pearl and didn't warn the Fleet...

      I used to think that. Then I found out it was bollocks. Both the knowledge, and it being 'well understood'.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  10. Shocking it's not as if there was a resason ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://articles.chicagotribune...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

    So people are upset about the NSA spying on companies and a country that was willing to look the other way on some very questionable practices ?

    A little reality check here. George Washington was one of our first spymasters,
      http://www.amazon.com/George-W...
    And the value of intelligence information to our well being has not decreased one bit since the revolution.

  11. Wait - you think they don't? by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Informative

    Who in the world thinks that Russia DOESN'T spy on the US and GB (and France and Germany and everyone else for that matter). FFS - we ALL do it to everybody else.

    This is like complaining that farts stink, and somebody just found out that we left a beige cloud in the restroom. Somebody light a match, close the door, and get on with it. In polite society you hold your breath and pretend like nothing happened, because the next time the remains of the burrito might be yours.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Wait - you think they don't? by Smauler · · Score: 2

      Spying on friends is generally seen as poor form.

      Now, you could argue that the US and Germany are not friends, but the politicians would argue they were. You could argue the US and Russia were friends, but then you'd be wrong.

      The problem with the entire US mentality of "it's fine to spy on other nations" is that GCHQ is British, and has the same idea, and shares their information _on you_ with your intelligence services, and anyone else who wants to know.

      It's not fine.

  12. Re:Spies spying? by khasim · · Score: 4, Informative

    GOVERNMENT spies who are spying on POTENTIAL ENEMY GOVERNMENTS are okay.

    GOVERNMENT spies who are spying on ALLIES are not okay.

    GOVERNMENT spies who are spying on PRIVATE companies in allied nations are not okay.

    And before you get to the next part I'll just say that GOVERNMENT spies who are spying on CITIZENS of that government are also not okay.

  13. Re:Feelings hurt by Smauler · · Score: 2

    Do you think, then, that just about every other country which is spying on Germany is doing it much better than the US? Is that your argument?

  14. Re:I should hope so by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    Germany lags the USA and Russia in arms sales. Even the numbers can be tricky with smaller nations e.g. the UK firms doing very well out of US needs during the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"