Start-Up Founders On Dealing With Depression

v3rgEz (125380) writes "Founders at a number of Boston startups shared their stories of building and growing a company while battling depression. One founder didn't even realize he was depressed until glucose and blood tests came back normal, while another said it was worse than her life struggles growing up in the projects. All shared different coping mechanisms. Any advice for dealing with the same?"

Comments

Oh yeah it can be tough

[TheSync]

When I ran a start-up, I remember the pressure being crazy. I believe I had gastric reflux pretty bad. Then when it failed (like most start-ups do), it hit pretty hard. The good news is that it was an incredible experience, and I learned a great deal about business and life from it.

Re:Oh yeah it can be tough

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Giving up sex for more office hours.

Bad things happen.

Re:Oh yeah it can be tough

[ebusinessmedia1]

If you are feeling depressed or anxious, go see someone - a counselor; a psychiatrist; a pastor; a good friend that you trust, etc. Another thing you can do is avail yourself of one of the better self-help books out there; it's called "Feeling Good" by David Burns. I highly recommend reading the first 50 pages, minimum, and doing the exercises (about 10 minutes per day) to start; the book is based on years of solid research and is very accessible. The techniques described have been proven in labs all over the world.

The reason I like this book is because the techniques employed are lab tested; it is not a "feel good" book; it's a book that describes how to deal with the thoughts that cause depression - i.e. cognitive distortions, and how to "talk back" to those distortions in ways that effectively disarm them. Feeling Good is available for about $10 from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-...; it is used by therapists all over the world and is probably the most effective book of its kind. btw, this book is also helpful for people who are just going through a rough patch, but are not depressed.

Re:Oh yeah it can be tough

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Cue George Costanza.

Re:Oh yeah it can be tough

[Zontar The Mindless]

Thank you for being kind enough to wait until I'd finished eating.

Re:Oh yeah it can be tough

[Zontar The Mindless]

Lights out at 9PM, Alex.

Re:Oh yeah it can be tough

[Zontar The Mindless]

I have never been a patient in a mental hospital.

And I didn't have Fruit Loops for dinner, I had hänt i veckan (also known as pytt i panna) with a couple of fried eggs on top. It's quite popular here. You should try it sometime.

Get a conventional job and arrangement.

[sethstorm]

As Ricardo's comparative advantage would say: Not everyone is fit to handle a start-up, nor should they be pushed to it by policies making every other condition second-class.

Of course, that may not fly well with some.

Exercise

[Anonymous Coward]

#enufsaid

There's only one thing;

[DerekLyons]

There's only one piece of advice those who think they may be suffering from anxiety or depression need: Seek professional help as soon as possible, and ignore the ignorant fuckers who tell you to just man up and move on.

The level and type of professional help you'll need may be a counselor, may be full on treatment - but you'll never regret it.

Re:There's only one thing;

[bluefoxlucid]

Dude, just fucking man up.

Re:There's only one thing;

[TapeCutter]

Indeed, may I add one caveated to that, educate yourself on what the professional advises, read the labels and be aware of the side-effects of anti-anxiety pills such as Zoloft, mixed with regular alcohol I've seen at least 4 middle aged friends have their lives totally wrecked by that particular combination, two of whom ended up spending time in jail, not to mention the distress caused to their partners and kids. This is because we need some stress, it's the bodily signal that tells you what you are doing is wrong/dangerous, unfortunately I was too slow to make the connection in my ex-wife's behaviour to save my own 20yr marriage.

So my advise is seek professional help from a qualified psychiatrist who will probably recommend a good counsellor. Do not accept a script from an ordinary GP, ask for a referral to a physiatrist for a second opinion. Above all educate yourself enough about any drugs you are given, especially the unwanted side-effects that can be far worse than the anxiety attacks. Used properly the drugs are effective, I have more friends that have benefited from their correct use than have suffered from incorrect use.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Anonymous Coward]

Experiences like that tend to happen if you have dealt with a bad professional or ignored professional advice (or in a rare case, have a lifelong imbalance of some sorts, in which case alternatives might not work anyway). You should be using the antidepressants to help with sources of problems, to help you get back on your feet so you don't need them anymore. Unfortunately, too many people go to a GP and demand something, get a prescription, then never follow through with actually fixing or dealing with things.

The antidepressants are supposed to be like a bandage that stops a wound from getting infected, poked at, and gives it a chance to heal. Except in this case the healing is not a passive thing usually, and you need to be working on making things better once you have motivation to get things done, with or without the help of counseling. The only reason most people should see an increase in dosage is because the original dosage didn't work from the start, not because of tolerance build up, and then as things progress they should be lowering dosage with time. At the very least, any reasonable professional should be quite aware of withdrawal issues and not mistake it for just needing to go back on the drugs.

Re:There's only one thing;

[seebs]

Pretty much this, yeah.

You know, if any other part of your body hurt or stopped working as-expected, you'd probably go to a doctor pretty early on. But we have this cultural ideal that "willpower" is a virtue, so people want to "be strong". But you know, if stamina were a "virtue", would that mean that you should just laugh it off if you suddenly couldn't do normal things without being out of breath? No, it would not.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Aighearach]

LOL! My friend started taking zoloft and ended up getting kicked out of a bar for trying to spin a stool on his finger... over and over again, because in his warped world, he was spinning it for a long time before it fell. Then he went out to the parking lot, and assaulted some guy who was making out with a woman. He thought he was batman and that he was saving her from an attack.

Luckily, he escaped the police and a family member got him better treatment; involved quitting the startup, changing medications, and not drinking. He's doing much better now. But he doesn't go to bars... he realizes he can't drink while on psychiatric medications.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Anonymous Coward]

Research on the effectiveness is a real mess, because there are way too many studies that fail to take into account relevant things. A big one is a lot of studies that show ineffectiveness in general don't hold up if you factor in what situation the SSRIs were prescribed in. There are a lot of situations, especially if prescribed by a GP, where they are not useful, and lumping that together with more straightforward cases skews everything.

Re:There's only one thing;

[John Bokma]

And then there are studies who exaggerate greatly the effectiveness of SSRIs. If they actually helped, why do people need to switch regularly and add / remove other meds as well. My experience is that it's just like throwing things at a wall to see what sticks.

Re:There's only one thing;

[FuegoFuerte]

Aren't you the little expert... How is sunlight not relevant? Ever heard of "Seasonal Affective Disorder," aka seasonal depression? It happens to a lot of people I know (I live in the Seattle area, where we get about 9 months of grey-and-drizzly every year), myself included. Y'know what helps me snap out of it? Getting to a place with sun, even if just for a weekend now and then. Often that's simply heading east over the mountains for the weekend, or even a business trip down to California or Texas for a few days. All that to say, there's definite merit to getting enough sun, or good strong natural-ish light in its place (such as some of the daylight spectrum LED lights, etc).

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

Eh, what? Who said anything about antidepressants?

I've been in treatment for depression for some years, and my counsellor has never had me take any. Or even suggested that I do.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

more sunlight, better excursive, counseling, better diet (normally meaning more veggies), and getting a pet

Sounds a lot like what my counsellor tells me I should do.

She's got a Master's in Psych, a PhD in Behavioural Therapy and Family Counselling, and about 15 years experience working with addicts, depressed people, and messed-up relationships and families.

What've you got?

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

These "bleeds" don't heal, these people were never meant to stand in the first place.

Kindly go die in a fire.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds a lot like what my counsellor tells me I should do.

And that's the whole point: it's what your counsellor advises for your situation

  I've met a person who has emotionally unstable personality disorder as a result of abusive childhood, the filters resulting from which contribute toward chronic depression. One of their triggers is bright sunlight - association with traumatic episodes - and telling them to get more sunlight would be to tell them, without support, to constantly remind themselves of the worst memories of their past. Exercise is often recommended, but since certain physical conditions can bring on or exacerbate symptoms of depression, telling someone to "Exercise more!" before a thorough physical check-up is irresponsible. A better diet is a great idea, but in CAMHS there are so many people with eating disorders, and trite advice like "more veggies!" ("more vitamins!") sounds to a person who is already severely underweight that they're fat and need to eat even less.

As to "getting a pet", the Animal Welfare Act 2006 makes it clear why this advice is horrific for anyone whose depression means they regularly have difficulty managing daily activities. Time with companion animals can be of benefit, but there are many ways of going about this. Some people only carry on because of the cat they've always loved, while others cannot even manage to feed a goldfish, and might do better e.g. to spend time with "pets as therapy" animals or walking with friends' dogs.

And I don't do Internet Qualification Penis Waving. My background is relevant, but irrelevant.

Re:There's only one thing;

[MadKeithV]

Man up is poor advice, but minor depression tends to clear itself up after a few months so it does have some merit (and the depressed person will hate you for saying it).

Man up is great advice, as long as you take it to mean "man up and have the courage to seek out help".

Re:There's only one thing;

[flyingsquid]

If the drugs really worked, we'd see depression rates going down, and America would have one of the lowest rates of mental illness on the planet. Instead, depression has gone up over time, and we now are one of the most depressed countries in the world.

There is a lot of evidence that these drugs can be effective in the short term, but there's little if any evidence to suggest that they're effective in the long term. In fact, a number of studies suggest that in the long term, antidepressants cause worse outcomes. Left untreated, depression tends to resolve itself after 3-12 months. That makes getting relief from an antidepressant in 4-6 weeks sound appealing. But once you've been on antidepressants, you're more likely to get depressed again, and your depression is more likely to become chronic. Basically, your body becomes dependent on the drugs and has difficulty functioning without them. Maybe this doesn't happen to everybody, but it's far more common than the pharmaceutical companies would have you believe. That also makes antidepressants difficult to get off of, because the body goes into withdrawal when the dose is cut, particularly for things with short half-life. There are real risks with antidepressants. This is especially true if you're bipolar- if your depressions tend to be repeated and cyclical you may have bipolar depression, not standard depression. In that case, antidepressants may trigger mania and cause the disorder to become worse.

There are a lot of other options out there. Counseling, exercise, improving your sleep patterns, meditation, changing your diet, supplements like Omega 3 fatty acids and B vitamins. For many people, these can be every bit as effective as antidepressants. Lifestyle changes take a bit more work and discipline, but they come with far fewer risks and in the long run may be more helpful.

Re:There's only one thing;

[flyingsquid]

Indeed, may I add one caveated to that, educate yourself on what the professional advises, read the labels and be aware of the side-effects of anti-anxiety pills such as Zoloft, mixed with regular alcohol I've seen at least 4 middle aged friends have their lives totally wrecked by that particular combination, two of whom ended up spending time in jail, not to mention the distress caused to their partners and kids...

Used properly the drugs are effective, I have more friends that have benefited from their correct use than have suffered from incorrect use.

You've listed four friends who had their lives wrecked and your conclusion is that "used properly the drugs are effective"? The lesson I would draw from this is that there are other approaches which are shown to be at least as effective in managing depression for many people- exercise, counseling, and sleep training- that do not destroy people's lives and land them in jail. So instead of running to the doctor for a Zoloft prescription, a more sensible treatment plan would be to implement some of the non-drug approaches for a few months, and treating the drugs as a backup plan for when all else fails? Maybe the drugs do have a place, but doctors are far too quick to prescribe them.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Jmc23]

All those suggestions are backed by science. Science also says it doesn't really matter what type of counseling you get. Taking drugs, talking to a counselor, talking to a friend, have all shown to be equally effective.

It's funny how these studies are the ones that never get much mention because it basically eliminates the need for the US solution.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Jmc23]

ah, another depressed person making generalizations from their experiences. Understood.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

Hey, guess what--this one's a bit different!

Hey, guess what--I'm not Jewish!

Perhaps you were fooled by my imitation Yiddish accent, which I'm told is quite good for someone who's never set foot in Brooklyn. I also do pretty fair US Midwestern, US Southern (I'm equally proficient in both the Deep South and Appalachian Hilljack variants thereof), Aussie/Queenslander, Aussie/Sydneysider, German, Russsian, Swedish, and several other foreign/regional accents.

I also tell great fishing stories, and I can recite several Brother Dave and Bill Cosby routines from the 1960s from memory.

Check with my agent if you're interested in booking me.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

That post makes it quite clear I'm not on any meds, nor have I been, nor have any been prescribed for me.

Your post makes it clear that you've extremely poor reading comprehension.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

"a lot like" != "exactly the same"

Your friend's case sounds like what I'd call "the exception that proves the rule". I doubt that a reasonable professional would suggest getting a dog to someone with a severe fear of them, either.

Actually, in my case, she suggested it was maybe time for me to seek a new partner or at least some dates (I'd been separated for a year or two from my ex) rather than a pet (which at that time I already had).

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

I'm not the one who's posted the same link a half-dozen times or more in the same thread, Alex.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

Well, then, let's hear all about your many accomplishments that have made you such a smashing success.

We've already seen "ability to make one hyperlink and use it over and over", so you can skip that one.

Do go on, Mr Role Model, we're all waiting.

Re:There's only one thing;

[Zontar The Mindless]

Still waiting...

Gratuitously stolen, but...

[TWX]

"I hate my job. Is there a support group for people like me?"

"Yes, it's called Everyone. we meet at the bar."

Re:Gratuitously stolen, but...

[Aighearach]

News flash: the drunks at the bar may think they're just like "everyone," but most people are not at the bar.

Re:Gratuitously stolen, but...

[RabidReindeer]

News flash: the drunks at the bar may think they're just like "everyone," but most people are not at the bar.

I don't go to bars. They depress me.

Re:Gratuitously stolen, but...

[TWX]

Lighten up, Francis...

Um....

[Shoten]

Maybe try getting professional help? Instead of asking Slashdot? Just saying.

Re:Um....

[BradMajors]

"Professional help" does not have a high success rate for treating depression.

Re:Um....

[hendrips]

That may be true, but what exactly is "treating depression?" My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that depression treatment is not really even intended to cure the patient's condition. Rather, treatment is intended to improve the condition to the point that the patient can at least function normally, even while they're still sad/stressed/whatever. The question is, are psychiatric professionals successful at that goal? The few people I have known that have suffered from depression say that treatment was able to do that, but I certainly don't know if that's true in general.

Re:Um....

[Lotana]

I am willing to bet that it has much better success rate than asking questions on Slashdot.

Normal is bad?

[ShaunC]

One founder didn't even realize he was depressed until glucose and blood tests came back normal

What? His tests came back normal and that was a sign of depression? Oh, I see, it was just a poor summary.

Re:Normal is bad?

[K. S. Kyosuke]

And I, on the other hand, thought I suffered from depression, but then the blood tests came back and I turned out to have a substantial chronic hypoglycemia. So it goes. ;-)

(Oh, and then they told me that I'm a schizoid, so I still may be more inclined towards comorbid depression anyway. Crap.)

Re:Normal is bad?

[Jmc23]

The DSM definition of schizoid is basically somebody who hasn't fully drunk the US Kool-aid, i.e., it is not a bad thing.

Huh?

[Desler]

One founder didn't even realize he was depressed until glucose and blood tests came back normal

If his results were normal why would that indicate he had depression?

Re:Huh?

[TubeSteak]

Because depression presents in all kinds of weird ways.
In this case "started to get dizzy and feel sick" could have been anything.
Once blood work ruled out physical problems, that's when you start looking for psychological ones.

Re:Huh?

[brainboyz]

But if you rule out a reasonable amount of everything else, attempting to treat depression may give results.

Re:Huh?

[K. S. Kyosuke]

I thought depression is still a "physical" problem, although not one immediately obvious in blood tests? Otherwise why would you prescribe drugs altering the brain chemistry (which is beyond the blood-brain barrier)?

Re:Huh?

[Wycliffe]

One of the symptoms of depression is fatigue and decreased energy

So if I'm tired and don't have any energy does that mean I'm depressed?
What's the difference between depressed and just being tired from working too hard or being burnt out?
Basically, if you don't know you're depressed, how do you decide when it's time to be "tested" and are
there even any "tests" that can be done to determine if you are depressed if you aren't displaying classic
symptoms?

Re:Huh?

[CanHasDIY]

I thought depression is still a "physical" problem, although not one immediately obvious in blood tests? Otherwise why would you prescribe drugs altering the brain chemistry (which is beyond the blood-brain barrier)?

Because there's good money in pharmaceuticals?

Re:Huh?

[budgenator]

What's the difference between depressed and just being tired from working too hard or being burnt out?

If you feel tired from working too hard or being burnt out you are depressed. If taking a 3 day weekend, sleeping in late in a hotel in a different city, getting more exercise and sunshine doesn't make you feel refreshed and relitalized, your head is going to a dark place sooner or later.

Re:Huh?

[RabidReindeer]

I thought depression is still a "physical" problem, although not one immediately obvious in blood tests? Otherwise why would you prescribe drugs altering the brain chemistry (which is beyond the blood-brain barrier)?

Because there's good money in pharmaceuticals?

Because it's a crap shoot. There is no physical test for most forms of depression, it has to be diagnosed by professional investigation, subject to whatever current psychiatric fads are in effect.

And likewise, there's no magic bullet treatment for depression, despite what impression the drug commercials might give. One person's relief may do nothing for another, and the side-effects can often be so annoying that even if an effective drug is discovered, the patient may not use it effectively. I refuse to buy into the euphemism "client". Clients are repeat business. I'd rather be a patient, since patients are supposed to be cured.

Some people can experience relief via talk therapy. Some via drugs. Some need drugs to put them into a proper mental state for talk therapy to work.

Someday, I'm hoping we can reach a point where you can spit on a chip and a DNA analysis will return a list of drugs that will work effectively and with minimum side-effects, possibly even to the point of creating a custom formula on the spot. We've a long way to go before we reach that point, though.

Re:Huh?

[smallfries]

If you are tired from working too hard then your body can recharge. Taking a weekend completely away from work can bring you back to normal. If your levels of exhaustion get worse then it can take longer. When a complete two-week break from work cannot undo the damage and bring you back to a normal level it is a sign that your body has adapted to a new level of normal.

I'm not sure that there is a real difference between burn out and depression. They probably overlap to some extent and share symptoms. I think that depression is caused by a lack of serotonin in the brain (hence SSRIs as an effective treatment). Burn out is caused by an inability to produce any more adrenaline; living in a state of constant stress has affected the bodies ability to produce it on demand and caused some kind of adaptation to its effects.

There are tests for determining stress levels in the run-up to burn-out that measure cortisone levels in the blood. Too high above base level can indicate the presence of too much stress. After burn out the levels collapse to below a normal base-line.

Re:Huh?

[fleeped]

Because then it's not physical, it's psychological. My doctor told me the other day.

Re:Huh?

[WhatHump]

Other physical ailments can look like depression. It's important to rule out something like low iron/B12 levels, which can result in extreme fatigue and make someone feel like every activity is equivalent to climbing a mountain.

Re:Huh?

[Jmc23]

Every single diagnosis (for almost all 'mental' 'diseases') has a temporal requirement AND it has to negatively impact your day to day life. That is the only difference between an alcoholic who drinks a bottle everyday and lost their job over it and a non-alcoholic who drinks a bottle everyday for a week during spring break.

Here's a hint. When YOU notice something is off, or you have questions, that's when you go get tested. Not just for depression, lack of energy can be a lot of things but if it is noticeable then go see your doctor!!

Depression is weird

[deathcloset]

When you are depressed you are supposed to have lower mental activity, and yet some of the most brilliant people have been known to be clinically depressed [citation not needed]. So then, if depression sometimes comes with brilliance, what gives?

And does this mean that for some people of this class antidepressants (chemical and psychological) have the effect of actually dulling insight and brilliance?

Be depressed, be brilliant: Be happy, be dumb.

Life is such a bitch.

Re:Depression is weird

[Narcocide]

Depression is weird

No, its really, really simple actually, even depressingly so. When you're smarter than everyone else, they all team up to try to destroy you. This is very stressful and the effect of the stress is quite distracting in a way that is nearly constant, even when not being actively bullied at that moment. Imagine how much smarter our most brilliant minds would be if they weren't tormented by mainstream society and their "peers" practically from the cradle to the grave.

Re:Depression is weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Intelligent people often have a more realistic view of the world around them, the world is pretty shitty, this makes intelligent people depressed.

Re:Depression is weird

[Hentai]

When you are depressed you are supposed to have lower mental activity, and yet some of the most brilliant people have been known to be clinically depressed [citation not needed]. So then, if depression sometimes comes with brilliance, what gives?

Here's a weird analogy that seems roughly accurate:

Being depressed is like being perpetually out of gas. You just can't *do* anything.

Now, your average person's brain is a typical Honda 90 horsepower engine. Good gas mileage, terrible performance.

Your average genius's brain is like a Ferrari V8 - super-high performance, but at the cost of needing a LOT more fuel.

If everyone's getting the same amount of emotional 'fuel' from their friends, family, culture, society etc., who's going to run out first?

Re:Depression is weird

[AnontheDestroyer]

Ignorance is bliss, and you're talking about the opposite.

Re:Depression is weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Citation definitely needed. Clinical depression is long term, constant depression (like your cat always just died) with a few dips into major depression (your wife and family burned to death because you left the stove on). The people you were trying to refer to had manic (bipolar) depression. That type of depressions swings from major depression into high manic states. In a manic state you're not depressed, you feel unusually high and optimistic, extremely energetic, and have grandiose beliefs about your own abilities.

Feeling great, having tons of energy, and believing you're the best and capable of doing whatever it is you're trying to do is a recipe for brilliance. When you fail you know you'll get it right in a few more tries, you have the energy to keep trying, and failing never gets you down. Basically you're well motivated and well motivated people normally excel at whatever it is they're trying to do. You don't have to have manic depression to become highly motivated, but sometimes it helps.

Re:Depression is weird

[neiras]

As illustrated by this comedy sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:Depression is weird

[Jason Levine]

There is a condition known as "manic depressive disorder." Essentially, you can have a day where you're feeling so great that you decide to move all of the furniture in your house, repaint the living room, run a mile, begin a novel, and more. You have tons of energy and can do it all. And then you crash into the depression stage where getting out of bed is a major achievement.

There were some very brilliant people who did some wonderful things in their manic stages only to sink into horrible depression stages (sometimes committing suicide while in these).

Re:Depression is weird

[RabidReindeer]

No lollipop for you. Getting angry doesn't make you more intelligent. Angry people are famous, in fact, for doing really stupid things.

However, at least some forms of depression seem to be related to obsession. You receive what most people would think of as a minor emotional injury and you can't let go of it. It drags you down constantly as it replays over and over in your head.

Receiving a MAJOR emotional injury where "they all team up to try to destroy you" is more likely to end up with a major shooting incident or the like.

Obsession can be crippling when it comes to handling injuries, but obsession IS considered a sign of genius when you can't let go of a creative idea and keep pursuing it long after sensible people would have dropped it.

Re:Depression is weird

[RabidReindeer]

I prefer the following response to the "Just get over it/MAKE yourself be happy" crowd.

I'm naturally buoyant. I can pretty much float in water until I pickle to death. Almost no effort required to keep my head above water.

Depression is like what happens when I put on a scuba weight belt. I can still keep my head above water, but I'm having to MAKE myself be buoyant (so to speak) by more actively treading water. Eventually, however, the extra effort required is going to tell, I can't keep treading and I'll go under.

Re:Depression is weird

[flyingsquid]

There is a condition known as "manic depressive disorder." Essentially, you can have a day where you're feeling so great that you decide to move all of the furniture in your house, repaint the living room, run a mile, begin a novel, and more. You have tons of energy and can do it all. And then you crash into the depression stage where getting out of bed is a major achievement.

These days it's called Bipolar Disorder. and it comes in two varieties, Bipolar I and Bipolar II. Bipolar I is the classic Manic Depressive disorder. In BPII the ups tend to be much milder and shorter, and the depression tends to be more chronic. BP I is pretty hard to miss- the manias tend to be the kind of thing that land you either in the hospital or in jail. But a lot of people suffering from depression may actually suffer from BP II. The highs in Bipolar II are hypomanic- they're characterized by being in a good mood, being creative, being productive, being outgoing. Nobody ever goes to the doctor complaining about hypomania. The depression in Bipolar II tends to be the dominant symptom, however, and it tends to be chronic. The problem here is that a lot of people who are treated by doctors for depression actually suffer from bipolar II, and the treatments are completely different. The standard treatments for BPII are anticonvulsants- lamotrigine and valproic acid. BPII suffers do respond to antidepressants, but the problem is that they respond too well; antidepressants actually tend to make bipolar people manic and can make the disorder worse. If you do seek psychiatric help, it's critical to get the right diagnosis, because the treatment options are completely different.

Re:Depression is weird

[juneadelle]

I would add that treatment for Bipolar Disorder of either variety is more than initially seeking help--it's a commitment to staying helped. I have BP-I, diagnosed many years ago and well-treated since then. I have a great psychiatrist, and was lucky enough to have hit upon a mix of drugs without too much trial and error that work for me and keep me pretty stable without too many side effects. Given the crapshoot that is psychiatric pharmacology, I've had a really good outcome.

But, having tasted the highs, it's hard to live knowing that the well is capped. Looking back to the time before I was treated, I can see where I was in manic episodes, and I know that there are things I was able to achieve that would not have been possible without the intense focus, energy, optimism, and creativity that come with that. Everything is shinier and better and wonderful. It's pretty fabulous. On the other hand, bad decisions become *good* decisions, and are magically totally justifiable. But it will be over at some point, and I want to have a marriage, a house, a job, and a credit rating to come back to. So I take my pills and see my shrink. Many people can't resist, or don't have the resources to get good care and management. It's a commitment, and does require some degree of discipline. Am I just happy? Or am I *too* happy? Am I sad? Tough shit, I have to get out of bed and at least go through the motions of being human, or I become my diagnosis.

TL;DR: Pills aren't a magic cure. Not for Bipolar Disorder, not for "regular" depression. Pills need to go hand-in-hand with good care and yes, self-discipline. Unfortunately, if you're stuck somewhere in the highs or in the lows, the last two can be hard to come by.

Re:Depression is weird

[Jmc23]

Yeah, but then slashdot wouldn't exist.

The no-brainers always find a way to shut up the people whose words they can't understand.

Re:Depression is weird

[Jmc23]

Only the US seems to suffer from such aggressive Bipolar Personality Disorder. It's not as prevalent in any other country I've ever visited.

I'm sure I'll get modded down by the clueless flag bearers who have no clue what BPD is.

Re:Depression is weird

[Jmc23]

No. Intelligent people have a well constructed view of reality in their head, it usually has very little to do with actual reality.

This is the natural consequence of spending your time 'understanding' reality by reading books filled with other peoples thoughts about how reality is constructed.

The depression happens when the 'intelligent' people can't understand why reality isn't working like the carefully constructed logical reality in their head.

Re:Depression is weird

[Jmc23]

Potato chips.

Fuel your brain, skip breakfast.

Re:Depression is weird

[RabidReindeer]

Where did the parent poster claim angriness leads to intellience? Are you the type of person who actively tries to misunderstand other people? Even if your parent poster did make the mistake of using intelligence as the differentiating factor, you could have understood his message and generalize "when you're smarter" into "when you're different".

Because it does not matter who an individual is different, in some circles ze will get bullied for it.

Well, the grandparent post asserted that getting depressed makes you intelligent, but that's just absurd. Otherwise the landscape would light up with genius every time someone got depressed.

On the other hand, being bullied makes me angry.

You big bully, you.

Advice?

[mikes.song]

Make more money!

Re:Advice?

[SuricouRaven]

Money cannot buy happyness.

But you can rent it.

Prozac, Prozac, Prozac

[Virtucon]

It's all about the meds...

Depression

[Anonymous Coward]

High performance requires high maintenance. Just the way the universe works (entropy and all).

Depression may be an evolutionary stable strait, meaning like pain receptors, it may be there to protect you.

Here are some things I know after studying it for many years, and experiencing it for many years:

1. Get your Thyroid checked (TSH, free T3). Stress among many other things can bring it down and create depression. Even if you are young: Dr.s won't begin testing until you are middle-aged, typically, so ask for it.
2. Walking every day or other healthy exercise is shown to reduce mild to moderate depressive symptoms in studies over and over again
3. Take a B complex vitamin that contains Niacin. Take choline and L-Glutamine for brain food. Look these up.
4. Make sure your blood sugar stays stable. Read up on hypoglycemia. Standard protocol is protein every meal and have 5 small meals a day.
5. Acknowledge your limits and adapt around them.
5. If your thyroid is fine and you are still suffering with depressive symptoms it's time to look at either lowering stress in your life or getting with a good Dr. to help adapt.

Depression will one day be found to have many types I think. It will fool you too by making you think you have thoughts that are your own, but they are as much influenced by mood as your deliberate effort to think. This means simply, if you are depressed, your judgement is not good. That's why support systems are important, but get to good Dr. Your life may depend on it. Oh, and most cases of depression can be remedied.

Re:Depression

[John Bokma]

SSRIs have been proven to be barely effective. So no idea what you mean with "remedied". Popping Vit B might help you, but it's not a magic cure.

Advice from someone with chronic depression:

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't listen to "successful" people telling you about their "battle with depression". Their experiences are always atypical and usually represent a mild condition. The obsession with listening to heroes, as if a person who is good/lucky with one thing is competent at everything, is thoroughly harmful.

Instead, obtain professional help, and (within that professional framework, if possible) seek peer support from regular people with regular lives. Depression is often made worse by the sufferer's filtered/distorted view of the world, and you're not going to find any answers from a vocal minority.

Go out and smell the flowers once in a while

[ackthpt]

People who spend dark to dark in their offices often lose sight of life, while scrambling to the top. Give your endorphins a chance to work out, too. We're all headed to the grave, make sure your journey there isn't all work and no play.

Re:Go out and smell the flowers once in a while

[ackthpt]

Seriously, a little work-life balance? Radical concept, I know.

My oldest sister informed her work-aholic husband she was tired of him not coming home from the office, he was already a success and it was time to delegate some responsibility. He didn't take it seriously and was shocked when she finally filed for divorce.

IMHO, she could have found more to do with her own time, but guess she was too lovey-dovey to be alone.

Re:Go out and smell the flowers once in a while

[Anonymous Coward]

They're suffering from something else I think, because they'd probably really enjoy a little play time. Depression is more like you don't want to do anything and nothing makes fun, even things that most people most the time would find fun. If someone asks you how the food tastes or the movie is good or the weather is nice the height of your scale is "meh, it's okay". I'm there quite often, life's not really miserable in any way but I'm somewhat of a nihilist and nothing I do feels like it matters. There's just the momentary feeling of it but at the end of the day I feel like when I got up, bland and indifferent. I guess it's easy to say "live more" but somehow getting "extreme" isn't triggering anything except maybe a sense of self-preservation. It really all feels like tricks to keep the mind occupied to pass time.

Re:Go out and smell the flowers once in a while

[bitt3n]

People who spend dark to dark in their offices often lose sight of life, while scrambling to the top. Give your endorphins a chance to work out, too. We're all headed to the grave, make sure your journey there isn't all work and no play.

Listen to you trying to get me to go home early so you can weasel your way past me to the corner office. I'm onto you, you scheming bastard. You and your bloody endorphins are headed to the grave sooner than you might imagine.

Re:Go out and smell the flowers once in a while

[Zontar The Mindless]

Perhaps she wanted a husband rather than a boarder.

Some people are strange like that--they seem to expect their partner to be, well, you know, a partner.

Man The Fuck Up -- Take Drugs -- Talk It Out

[cosm]

Yes depression is real. Yes people have chemical imbalances or are wired the wrong way. Yes some people are born into shitboxs with terrible life circumstances. Yes some people lose their fortunes taking a crap-shoot gamble on flaky or even sure-fire premises. Depression is complex. It could be sourced from professional failure, home-life problems, neurological imbalances, marital issues. Man the fuck up and face your emotions head on. Or take drugs if your brain doesn't allow you to cope that way. Or just talk to somebody about it and let it all out. Venting is helpful too. Depression is real. Sometimes it is overdiagnosed. Sometimes it is missed in people. There are many coping mechanisms. I'm making generalizations but all in all depression is not a binary state, but a spectrum. This is not news for nerds, but it is stuff that matters, particularly if the rates of depressions are on the rise, rates which could be indicative of the socio-economic status of a populations inhabitants, and perhaps about the greater culture as well. I am a software developer and have no professional qualifications to comment on the matter, but since this is the internet, fuck-all lets give it a go!

Re:Man The Fuck Up -- Take Drugs -- Talk It Out

[aralin]

5-HTP

The Highs and Lows can be a mess

[cheesybagel]

I once had to work in a highly stressful environment. I started doing more and more exercise out of work to just forget it all. I stopped having appetite. Eventually I started losing weight really fast. I also started sleeping less and less. I finished and delivered the project to the client, then left.

Afterwards I stopped working for a while. My sleep instead of improving got even worse. It came to a time where I did not sleep for 3 days straight. That was when everything started going bonkers. I got highly irritable at the slightest things. Blood pressure went down for no reason at all. I went to the hospital to get some diagnosis on my sleeping problems. While I was waiting for my appointment I lost consciousness. When I woke up I was lying in an hospital bed.

When I finally got a proper diagnosis and got proper medication, a trial in itself, my condition improved. After a couple of months I went back to work again.

My advice to you is if you are in a stressful work environment either change your conditions or leave it ASAP. Preferably prevent it from happening in the first place. Try to keep a private life outside of work in order to avoid getting stuck into mind loops. If you keep doing the same workload that is causing you to be stressed under the medication you may come off the rails. I have seen it happen. This condition is a lot more frequent than people would like to admit it. For whatever reason it seems to be anathema to discuss this subject in Western societies. Even if a lot of famous people e.g. Winston Churchill suffered from it.

Re:The Highs and Lows can be a mess

[cheesybagel]

No it isn't worth it. But one way to endure such a work environment better is to bring some headphones and listen to music when you are working on something.

Most open plan offices I have been in have some visual barriers so you cannot see everyone at once. The visual barrier may be a book stand, or some plants. When done properly it works. Otherwise the environment is too noisy to work in.

Re:The Highs and Lows can be a mess

[cheesybagel]

PS: Noise cancelling headphones work even better.

Re:The Highs and Lows can be a mess

[toddestan]

Headphones are good for blocking out noise, but often can make anxiety problems worse because it makes it a lot easy for people to unintentionally sneak up and startle you while you're trying to work. Which means that you can end up looking over your shoulder constantly to see if someone is behind you. Now, if you can arrange things so that no one can sneak up on you then it can be great, but in an open office plan it's nearly impossible.

How I deal

[ddt]

I've suffered from chronic depression all my adult life, but I didn't want to medicate unless it was a medicine which could cure me, which doesn't exist (yet). I've been an entrepreneur for most of my 20+ year career. Here's how I "self-medicate":

• Moved to a place with lots of sunlight.
• Sold my car, bicycle everywhere.
• Got rid of my cell phone, use skype # for calls.
• Got rid of my TV.
• Got lots of redundant bandwidth- FIOS, cable, 3G/4G modem
• Got a roomie.
• Eat more fish and vegetables.
• Became a regular at a couple of restaurants.
• Got involved in local hacker community and broader game dev community.
• Stay productive. Getting something done every day helps.
• Work on projects with others, use skype video often if not in same space.
• Got a medical marijuana certificate. Best when used judiciously.
• Make a habit of checking in on my last dozen or so thoughts. Are they all sad?

There's no one thing that seems to have done the trick, and it's not a perfect cure. I still have "down days," but I feel a lot better off overall than I used to. I think the hardest thing for anyone to do would be to cut their TV, cell phone, and car out of the picture, but I have to say, these were some of the most helpful things I did. Not only did they dramatically reduced bills but also reduced lots of stress and distractions. Granted, I can find plenty of distractions with my copious internet bandwidth, but at least they're more self-directed.

Re:How I deal

[nmoore]

I didn't want to medicate unless it was a medicine which could cure me, which doesn't exist (yet)

Got a medical marijuana certificate. Best when used judiciously.

I am not sure how to reconcile these two. Selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors count as medicine, but partial CB1 agonists do not?

Re:How I deal

[eulernet]

Wow, is there anything else than productivity in your life ?

Re:How I deal

[ddt]

You're right. I meant medicate regularly with long-term anti-depressants. I had heard too many cases of people having to experiment to find the right kind, sometimes experiencing even suicidal thoughts when on the wrong sort, and at the time I was diagnosed, they all seemed to be of the form that you keep dosed all day every day, which made me feel kind of "longitudinally uncertain," if you know what I mean. I was also told that they can shave off your highs along with your lows, and I really like my highs. Marijuana I find you can use more "topically" just when feeling particularly mopey or anxious.

Re:How I deal

[ddt]

I have a rich play life, too, but the jury is out on whether it helps me cope with depression or serves as a form of escapism to avoid dealing with it, so I thought I'd stick with the clear wins.

Re:How I deal

[eulernet]

I meant: are you able to do nothing ?

I believe that you identify yourself too much with your actions.
When you don't produce anything, you feel empty and that's the cause of your depression.
But it's not really depression, it's just a fear of emptiness.
Being very active will not solve this emptiness, it just exacerbates it.

Re:How I deal

[MadKeithV]

Wow, is there anything else than productivity in your life ?

As someone currently coping with anxiety issues and possibly mild to moderate depression while in the start-up phase of my own company: I have tended to need productivity like a drug. The feeling of having failed if a day is not productive enough (in my own eyes) can set me off on a bout of anxiety. It's a problem (and that's exactly why I used the phrase "like a drug") - I put myself at serious risk of not allowing downtime, or feeling really guilty about downtime which then triggers the anxiety again.
And society marks that productivity as success ("the most successful people need little sleep!", "it's about quality time, not quantity time!", there are so many examples). When your head isn't on right, it's hard to remember that you work to live, not live to work, and that life isn't just about world-changing achievements.

Re:How I deal

[flyingsquid]

Eat more fish and vegetables.

There's increasing evidence that diet may play a role in mental illness. I've always been skeptical of the low-carb craze and the recent war on sugar. However, it's been shown that a number of neurological disorders do respond to carbohydrate reduction. One is epilepsy, which can respond to a very low carbohydrate (ketogenic) diet. In these diets, sugar and carbohydrates are cut out, and the body primarily burns fat for fuel. The other is bipolar II. There are a couple of documented case studies of bipolar sufferers managing their symptoms by switching to a low-carbohydrate diet. It worked better than their drugs, to the point that they actually stopped the drugs and just used the diet.

This raises the question of whether diet could contribute to depression. If reducing carbohydrates can treat psychiatric problems, then could a diet high in refined sugars and carbohydrates cause psychiatric problems? It sounds a bit crazy, but the brain is just another organ. If excess sugar can cause your kidneys to fail, what the hell is it doing to your brain?

Re:How I deal

[Jmc23]

OMG, there's hope after all.

Well, a little hope since it doesn't seem you know the relationship between the brain and sugar, but hope after all!

I always found it funny that 'intelligent' people usually think it doesn't matter where your calories come from. As if the human body is an amazing black magic box that can take whatever you put into it and receive the same outcome all the time.

It's about time people realize the simple logic that food is broken down into the useful stuff and the non-useful byproducts. These byproducts can affect the functioning of your system especially if they fit lots of locks they shouldn't be playing with.

Re:How I deal

[ddt]

I am not able to do nothing. My mind is an insatiable thing, and it needs to feed on ideas, knowledge, people, entertainment, etc. That's part of why I got really serious about the redundant bandwidth. Hadn't considered I might be afraid of emptiness. I'm open to ideas if you have any suggestions on how to test for that fear and/or treat it.

Group Depression

[Sanat]

When I worked as an engineer at McDonnell Douglas and things were spiraling down... I watched as the energy required to do a small task seemed to require a herculean effort to complete... Seemed that each day there was less employees to do the work... and each of them had less energy to "make it happen"... I have been fortunate not to have to experience this over and over like some individuals have. My heart goes out to those who suffer with depression and with those who struggle maintaining ... whether it is maintaining a job or trying to maintain consciousness to man up and get by.

Entrepreneurship vs. mental illness: distinct?

[dsgrntlxmply]

One model claims that manic depressive tendency is under-recognized and over-represented among entrepreneurs. This sounds intriguing, but I must admit not being aware of any data that directly support the claim.

Another factor is post-mission depression. Here, we have something in common with military people, aid workers, and religious missionaries returning from deployment. One's life was for a time directed by a highly directed sense of purpose and mission, held in common with one's principal cohort. This often was within an organizational structure that made high demands, but diverted attention toward the mission and away from unknowns and uncontrollables. When the mission ends, the coherence and structure end with it.

Startup culture can reward what in other contexts would be seen as manic and obsessive/compulsive behaviors. In a bubble market with an IPO pending or recently made, it can be difficult to distinguish reality from illusion from delusion. For a while, one's life can evolve toward an obsessive focus upon one number: a stock price.

Spoken from experience.

Depression can hit anyone

[mea2214]

Depression is a disease much like cancer. If this story was entitled "Start up founders on dealing with cancer," why would anyone think start up founders have any more insight to that suffering than anyone else? Depression can hit anyone, even billionaires without a care in the world. Like cancer, depression too frequently ends in death.

one size does not fit all

[jafac]

Not all depressions are alike, and not all sufferers are alike.

Some depressions are biological, some are caused by situation; (before diagnosing yourself as depressed, first determine whether or not you are in fact, surrounded by assholes - to paraphrase Twain, I think). Seeing a doctor can help, but sometimes, seeing the wrong kind of doctor can screw you up worse. Some doctors just want to push pills at you. And sometimes, it's the wrong kinds of pills, or sometimes, the problem isn't one that pills can fix. (like - being surrounded by assholes). (or. . . seasonal).

I'd say that if you see someone for help, and you're not getting any better with treatment after 6 weeks, definitely see someone else. I've seen CBT work fairly well for some people. And fail spectacularly for others. (and there are many incompetent therapists, as well).

This sucks...

[Bodhammer]

This whole thread harshes my mellow...

Drugs

[plopez]

Lots of drugs.

Better intestinal health--better mental health

[Theovon]

SSRIs work reasonably well for a lot of people to help with depression. But that depends on how much serotonin you have in reserve and whether or not the depression is actually caused by low serotonin. One of the major places your body stores serotonin is in the intestinal lining. If you eat a diet that is more conducive to intestinal health, you’ll store serotonin better. Meanwhile, 5-HTP supplements are like eating pure serotonin (there’s actually a two step conversion process from 5-HTP to Tryptophan to Serotonin, IIRC, but 5-HTP passes through the blood-brain barrier much more easily than Tryptophan). And if you are too low in serotonin, an SSRI won’t help, because there just isn’t enough serotonin to reputake inhibit.

Some people are low on norepinepherine too, so an MD might prescribe an SSNRI. Tyrosine (which you can also get in pill form) is a precursor to dopamine, norepinepherine, and epinepherine. Another way to boost dopamine is low-dose (i.e. 4.5mg) naltrexone (LDN), prescribed for a variety of things including chronic fatigue and autoimmune diseases; it’s a dopamine receptor antagonist that causes the brain to produce a net surplus of dopamine. Some people with mood problems also benefit from supplementing GABA, but that never worked for me or my wife, so I don’t know much about it, except that GABA is inhibitory in some parts of the brain and excitatory in others, making it have the opposite of the desired effect for some people.

Another mood enhancer is Theanine. You can get it in pill form, but a great source of that is Kombucha, which is fermented tea. It’s also loaded with antioxidants and probiotics. The probiotics and possibly the moderate amount of vinegar are also helpful for digestion problems.

Getting back to intestinal health, some people have a mild sensitivity to things like dairy (casein, lactose), wheat (gluten), and/or soy. Removing those from your diet may reduce tissue inflamation that interferes with good intestinal function. My kids can’t have dairy in winter. That’s when all these colds and other infections go around. Dairy causes just enough additional inflammation that when they pick up a bug, they much more prone to ear infections that require antibiotics (which tend to also kill off a lot of good bacteria). In small children, eustachian tubes aren’t fully developed and tend to have drainage problems. If we keep them off dairy (they get calcium and protein from other sources), proper drainage prevents ear infections from getting out of hand, and although they probably pick up various infections anyway, the symptoms are so mild that there’s no need to take them to the doctor. IIRC, when I was a kid, my parents observed that if I had too much dairy, I’d get phlemmy and have more trouble with colds and such. The dairy might also directly interfere with immune function. Anyhow, removing that may seem like a mild food irritant can actually have a substantial positive impact on intestinal function due to reduced inflammation and as a result better mucosal lining and better serotonin storage.

Other amino acids people often take to enhance intestinal health (e.g. people diagnose with celiac disease who require a great deal of gut rebuilding) include glycine and glutamine. Google that for more.

Not to get mystical or anything, but everything in the human body is a lot more connected than is suggested by what you learn superficially in high school biology. Why would the human body store serotonin (an important brain neurotransmitter) in the intestinal lining? I don’t know. Because there was no selective pressure not to? Perhaps the mucosal lining that partly serves to protect your tissues from getting digested themselves just happens to be good at suspending other things the body needs to store. Either way, the link is well established (see http://www.jneurosci.org/content/21/16/6348.full.pdf in the Journal of Neuroscience, for instance). Some things may seem obvious, like maintaining proper blood sugar levels (prefer low glycemic foods) and making sure you get enough protein are good for mental function; in fact, the link goes much deeper. Eat well, and you’ll think well.

Re:Better intestinal health--better mental health

[Theovon]

Don’t be surprised if your MD doesn’t know about it. Some people will lump it in with junk like homeopathy, even though the chemical properties are very straight-forward. MDs don’t know about alternative treatments and/or nutrition because they don’t study this in school. I once had a gastroenterologist tell me that he didn’t believe in food allergies, so I wasn’t too impressed. On the other hand, a DO is more likely to know about these things.

Anyhow, this isn’t stuff I’ve picked up from forums. I’ve spent many years learning about these things by internet searches and speaking with nutritionists. It takes a while to start making sense of it all and takes a lot of study.

Re:Better intestinal health--better mental health

[Theovon]

Sorry. I remembered it wrong.

Been there..

[john_uy]

I think the most important medicine is to surround yourself with people who care and are able to support. Me and my colleagues started a business. Things are going well now but I had those bout of depression before (including thoughts of suicide.) Before, I felt alone in an island. The image of me being perfect was so high that I didn't open up to other people.

Now, it is different, I've learned to share and ask for support from my family and close friends. I have learned that I am not superman and I do make mistakes. I have learned to take care of myself and love myself more. :) Life is so much better now. :)

P.S. May be one bonus for me is that I am generally a happy person living a simple life. Though one disadvantage is that if bad things happen, it does probably hit me harder than other people. I also didn't take any prescription medicine.

Good times are more important

[Taco Cowboy]

I had had many start-ups - some failed but others I cashed out for handsome profits.

When I ran a start-up, I remember the pressure being crazy

From my own experience, everything comes with pressure, but at the same time also provide exhilarating pleasure, and I prefer to keep the good parts in my mind.

I remember the room filled with stimulating enthusiasm, with people contributing everything they got towards the common goal, selflessly sharing all the know, and the lessons learned.

Even for the projects that I had cashed out from, I keep in touch with all the past comrades, and at times when we have a gathering or two, we get to reminisce about we had had to go through and all the other bullshits over a pint, or two.

Re:Good times are more important

[Mark of the North]

Having worked in more established institutions, mostly public ones, I'm envious of folk at start-ups. It seems like there could actually be a team, where everyone is mostly focused on the same goal. In established organizations this often isn't true and work becomes more about protecting one's position than getting a job done.

In an established organization, even if you are competent in your position, the management structure can mean you have little control over your destiny. Everyone between yourself and the tippy-top of the org-chart can decide your fate in a heart-beat. If any of those folk aren't worthy of the position (which happens a *lot* in public institutions) you have to have an exit strategy ready. Even if everyone above you is stellar now, tomorrow is a different day. I've had that sinking feeling, the one where I realize my direct superior doesn't have a clue and is making terrible decisions that directly, and devastatingly, impact myself and my staff. It has happened three times in the last five years and escalated in severity as each was of my superiors was replaced with someone worse. Serving at the pleasure of someone who is incompetent, and trying their damndest not to be found out, is tenuous.

So make sure your personal life is in order. Keep debt under control. Have at least six-months of living expenses in liquid savings. Live in a center where there are several other options for your skill-set. A partner with a stable income is wonderful insurance. Take your health seriously. Make sure that you are prepared for an unavoidable downward change in your health. That will happen eventually. Cultivate a network of friends and relatives that would stick their necks out for you in a time of need, by sticking your neck out for them when you can.

If one is personally prepared for things to go sour, the stress of personal loss won't add to the professional stress. Knowing that you can safely give your notice (no sense burning any bridges) goes a long long way.

... doesn't mean they can't join a start-up

[Taco Cowboy]

Not everyone is fit to handle a start-up...

True, but that does not mean they can't play the role the second-fiddle, or the third.

Not everyone can handle pressure - for some, pressure is a mean to become even better while for others they snapped.

But still - there are many roles in any start-ups.

Now that I do not handle start-ups anymore, I invest in some, and the first criterium for me is to gauge whether the lead person (dude or dudette) can handle sudden, and tremendous pressure.

If the person can't deal with it, I'll suggest to the team (as the one who gonna provide them with seed money) to get someone who can keep the vision going without snapped out of shape.

Remediate the biochemistry

[rs79]

Niacin, B6, C, Zinc.

Actually you should take a good hefty dose of all the vitamins and minerals from A-Z. Plus the important oils: EPA/DHA/ALA/GLA.

Maybe it won't work for you. But you might want to try to rule this out. It seems to have worked for a lot of people.

You think an above average brain can get by on the average amounts of these essential nutrients, which are precursors to the biochemical processses of thinkint and memory? Good luck with that.

Read Hoffer, Prousky et. al. in Google Scholar.

Depression from my 20's

[MonsterMasher]

Learn to be brutally honest with yourself. Be ready to accept anything and understand your value and dignity as a human being makes up for what ever aspect it is. Punish yourself on your actions, not your thoughts.
Never your thoughts!
I'm finishing up a 30 year journey which has informed me, and being technical I usually think in engineering terms about my head - my desires, idea sources, solution method generation, etc.
I started writing about it and you are welcome to read. I've been as open as possible and still retain dignity, as best I can. The material is adult and political and many will find offensive. Be warned. Salon profile until 3/13/14 http://www.salon.com/profile/s... (in reverse order) and now (since secretly (to me!) banned because of some anti-fem ideas. Psycho-feminists brain control freaks!) FB: www.facebook.com/Steven.Work (it all should be public.)
I lost some (perhaps Salon has it?) from generating directly to web form and thinking because *I* saw it posted - it would be in profile.
(I would like it a serious crime to limit free speech, or manipulate in an attempt too. Such as what Salon did - secretively - should get 'double bonus!')
I'm sorry if this seems aggrandizing, there is just too many relevant suggestions beyond the very good one I gave. If you care - follow, otherwise - ignore please.

Alcohol, lots of alcohol

[Blaskowicz]

Learn how to drink great quantities of alcohol without incurring headaches. Water-flavoured "beer" doesn't cut it, you'd have to drink many liters of the thing which means too many bottles or cans around and you have to take a piss too often, and end up overworking your kidneys. That isn't healthy. Booze and other spirits is expensive and toxic. Have to keep a glass of water around else your mouth, body and eventually brain will dry.. not good.
Red wine is great, and exponentially healthier when you don't get the worst products. The better the wine, the less sulfur dioxide in it (and red wine has a ton less of it than white wine). Which gets me to the bottle. Know what? it was conceived as a container for a daily dose of wine. What's more, it's the working man's daily dose. So one bottle can last for the duration of a workday, but you can have another one after work. Of course friends, coworkers and acquaintances might drink from your bottle in which case a third one is needed. If you need to wash your mouth or you feel like it, have great beer, such as micro-brews and similar, beers that are not sterilized and alcohol content typically 5% to 10%.

Once you get it going, never give up. Depression is a serious topic, lifestyle, culinary and drink habits play a good part in curbing it. You want a stable, healthy life with reliably recurring elements in it.

It is an extremely common view these days

[Sycraft-fu]

I know a lot of people, my sister included, who have a big issue with taking drugs prescribed by a doctor, but no issue with taking drugs purchased from a dealer. The logic can be pretty strange. For example I was talking with her about looking in to trying an anti-anxiety medication. My family all has issues with that, but she is far worse than the rest of us. My parents and I take low doses of SSRIs for it and it seems to help a lot. Thus it would probably be worth a try for her, since we have a great deal of genetic commonalities so the chances it works on her are high. Her response? "I don't want to do that, I only want to take the drugs I choose." I pointed out to her that it was completely my choice to take an SSRI, I could stop any time I wished, they aren't addictive, there is no court or medical order that requires me to take it, I continue to take it because I find it useful. Same reason we all take allergy medicine in the spring: It is useful in dealing with that, not because there is a requirement of some kind. She didn't like that though, to her it is different, though she could not articulate how or why.

I'm not sure why it is such an issue, perhaps because of the stigma associated with mental health issues, but I've seen it in numerous occasions. People who have no issue with recreational drugs that alter your brain chemistry but think that prescription drugs that do the same are evil or bad or something. It is, as you point out, a very silly position. I can respect, though not agree with, the position of taking no drugs that alter brain chemistry for whatever reason. However it is silly to be ok with THC and LSD and the like, but not with an SSRI.

Now please don't anyone mistake me for saying "Everyone should take SSRIs." No, not at all. However if a professional suggests they, or another drug, may be useful to treating a condition you have, you shouldn't say "No I won't take drugs," but then go out and smoke a joint. That is just silly. That would be like then refusing to use marijuana if a doctor prescribed it.

Re:It is an extremely common view these days

[Jmc23]

Let us see. Why would she have no problem with a 'holistic' medicine whose worst side-effect is vomiting. Yet she has a problem with manufactured drugs with a long list of side-effects, some resulting in death or long term impairement, and you suffer while having to hunt for the 'right' drug, and in 20 years you'll probably see a commercial for a class action suit against the drug for birth defects.

You really can't understand that?

Re:It is an extremely common view these days

[ddt]

I know a lot of people, my sister included, who have a big issue with taking drugs prescribed by a doctor, but no issue with taking drugs purchased from a dealer.

No offense, but I'm not your sister, and I can articulate why I went this route. :)

I pointed out to her that it was completely my choice to take an SSRI, I could stop any time I wished, they aren't addictive, there is no court or medical order that requires me to take it, I continue to take it because I find it useful.

That's not entirely true. Some SSRI's cannot be stopped: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

However it is silly to be ok with THC and LSD and the like, but not with an SSRI.

Now please don't anyone mistake me for saying "Everyone should take SSRIs." No, not at all. However if a professional suggests they, or another drug, may be useful to treating a condition you have, you shouldn't say "No I won't take drugs," but then go out and smoke a joint. That is just silly. That would be like then refusing to use marijuana if a doctor prescribed it.

At least in California, to get your certificate, marijuana has to be prescribed by a doctor. I just renewed mine last week. You have to fill out a pretty extensive questionnaire about other drugs you're taking, how it affects you, how much you're using it, and your health history in general. The doctor took my blood pressure, which was a little high, and she suggested I needed to move to a vaporizer.

I know a lot of people get their certificate for issues that aren't medical, but I see that as an unrelated issue having to do with the legal status of marijuana. You obviously won't see that issue in places where it's legalized. It just so happens it can also be used as a recreational drug, but this is true of a lot of prescription drugs, too.

I have a friend who suffers from chronic pain, and his doctor prescribed him Percocet, an incredibly powerful opiate. He quickly became addicted and went through an horrific ordeal trying to quit it. I'm super glad SSRI's are working out for you, but there are decidedly good reasons to be skeptical of what doctors prescribe. A lot of the drugs they prescribe have been promoted to them by large pharmaceutical companies. It's not exactly a virtuous circle. Doctors are not infallible, and it's always a good idea to do your homework, get second opinions- all that good stuff.

Particularly when it comes to mental health, you should feel confident about the medication you're taking. If your sister fears SSRI's, then maybe it's not conducive to improving her anxiety? Perhaps she just needs to find a doctor she feels she can trust? If you pull that off, then it could be as simple as giving her a placebo. You never know. The brain is the least understood organ in the human body, and to treat it by pickling it in chemicals (including marijuana) will probably be seen in the future as an incredibly crude approach, probably on par with how we view lobotomies now.

Re:Who cares.. what about vets?

[Zontar The Mindless]

When you suffer from chronic depression, every single day is a battle.

There are lots of folks out there who've never served in the armed forces, yet they fight such battles every day of their lives. Such people qualify as "heroes" in my book.

AND I AM ONE OF THEM. So go fuck yourself.

Re:Add "and smoke weed" to all of the above.

[Zontar The Mindless]

It's a double-edged sword. This from one who's been there.

Newsflash! We're all only human.

[HagraBiscuit]

I was dismayed by the article referring to "entrepreneurs" as though they are distinct from the rest of humanity.

My advice, for what it's worth: Read Marcus Aurelius.

The loneliness of command is certainly not a new thing.

Re:My advice...

[tarlong]

I'll buy this. Whenever i feel down, i get the desire to hide (get behind the monitor for days, read for days, etc. alone without contact with the universe) I’ve learn to detect this and immediately look for something to divert my "frustration/anger/depression” and stop playing soft music.

I usually listen to a enclitic ensemble of stuff; from Heavy Metal to Classical music. When i feel down, i try to move to heavy drum and bass, jungle, aggressive metal like, oh i don't know, the stuff from judgment night sound track, Rammstein, shitte like that. Blast it and do exercise until i can't do no more. Take a shower, a long one and then go to sleep.

If you can go to a concert, get into the mush. I mean it. No fear, nothing held, just mush. The sheer intensity of the experience tagged with the physical exercise of plainly jumping around while feeling (you can't properly listen a concert while mushing real hard) will drain all but the most heavy depressions.

I don't think this will go right up everyone’s alley, but if you think you can handle a real unleashing of anger without killing anyone. Do it. It is one of the most cathartic things that I’ve ever experienced.

All in all, find something you like to do, and fuck-all do it until you forget there is a world out there. Take a showe and get some real sleep.

Re:Add "and smoke weed" to all of the above.

[Jmc23]

Isn't it annoying when the thoughtless wonders resort to mob behaviour when they can't counter your thoughts and arguments with words?

Re:OUtdoor

[Jmc23]

If this persons body was balanced enough to surf, controlled enough to rock climb, or calm enough to fish, they wouldn't be depressed.

Chicken egg*

*always thought that was a stupid question since it's obvious eggs came first.

Re:My advice...

[Jmc23]

Beats old fashioned meditation.

Ah, so you don't understand what meditation means. At least you know how to do it, which is all that matters.

Re:Add "and smoke weed" to all of the above.

[Zontar The Mindless]

Don't you have a hosts file to write, or something?

Re:Add "and smoke weed" to all of the above.

[Zontar The Mindless]

I used to practically worship the stuff, myself, and in those days, everything else in my life tied into that one way or another. I still partake occasionally, after abstaining for several years, but I've no wish to go back to having it run my life, and any time I feel like that might be starting to happen again, I get away from it for a few months.

Sometimes that makes me more tolerant of those who've not yet grown beyond the need to identify with it in quite that fashion. Other times, less so.

Re:Who cares.. what about vets?

[Zontar The Mindless]

Is that really the best you can come up with? Your time just might be more profitably spent selling pencils.

Re:Disagree

[Zontar The Mindless]

Why should we not feel the full spectrum of emotions we can?

Pretend for a moment that your full emotional spectrum runs from "not especially unhappy" to "hate myself/want to die".

Being a chronic depressive means: There are times when you are simply not capable of feeling happy, and "not especially unhappy" is about the best you can hope for.

Do you now have a clue as to why your question is a very silly one?

Re:Add "and smoke weed" to all of the above.

[Zontar The Mindless]

Silence lends assent.

Re:Who cares.. what about vets?

[Zontar The Mindless]

One who is truly strong acknowledges his own weaknesses, and does not try to pretend that he has none.

Re:Add "and smoke weed" to all of the above.

[Zontar The Mindless]

I heard your complete and utter failure to answer the question, yes.

VItamin D, improved nutrition, exercise, REBT

[Paul Fernhout]

These can sometimes help. A collection of health links I put together:
https://www.changemakers.com/d...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

Laughter can help too. http://www.humorproject.com/

Medically-supervised fasting can also help sometimes. http://www.healthpromoting.com...

Better nutrition implies avoiding various problematical food additives. http://fedup.com.au/factsheets...

Getting enough sleep is also important of good health. Try to avoid looking at screens a couple hours before going to bed. And before going to sleep, try to make a mental list of all the things that you would still want to be there in the morning and that you are thankful for (e.g. enough to eat that day, water to drink that day, a safe place to sleep, garbage collection services, etc.), as gratitude helps mental health, and what you think about before going to sleep often programs the subconscious mind as to what to think about.

A lot of people creating startups and working long hours may ending up eating poorly, not exercising, and not getting enough sunlight for vitamin D. So they are at risk.

Deeper issues in the sense that we live in a crazy-making society with many organizations emphasizing unhealthy aspirations, even celebrated ones: http://www.pdfernhout.net/read...

Good luck!

Re:VItamin D, improved nutrition, exercise, REBT

[Zontar The Mindless]

Hey! Nice to bump into you again, Paul.

Yep yep yep. A lot of my issues seem to be due to or exacerbated by mild hypoglycaemia. Eating at fairly regular times and keeping junk food to a minimum seem to help a lot.

Vitamin D is a big help, especially here in Sweden where the amount of sunlight varies drastically (for me, almost catastrophically) between summer and winter. I take it daily. Seems to keep my internal clock synched better.

Cutting down a bit on the coffee and making myself drink more water has also helped me feel better in general.

Possibly the best single thing I've done is to get off the workaholic wagon and get completely away from work at regular intervals. And to try to work smarter instead of harder. My productivity was way down the first year or so, but has now come back up almost to where it was before--and I'm working 40-45 hours a week now, instead of 55-60 that I did for years. I'm enjoying my work lots more, too.

Depression is a symptom not a disease

[minyard]

"If you think you are depressed, first make sure you're not surrounded by ass-holes."

Make sure you accept reality and your true self. Try to sungaze at least for sunset (sungazing = viewing first/last 15 minutes of sunlight on the horizon). Get outside. Listen to your body. Don't eat crap. Focus on what really matters to you in life. And call me in the morning.

Re:Zontar, it's "HAPPY-PILLS" time

[Zontar The Mindless]

When you post ac, it's your schizophrenic multiple personality disorder

Well, an AC said it, I guess an AC would know.