Slashdot Mirror


Microsoft's Security Products Will Block Adware By Default Starting On July 1

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft [Thursday] announced a change to how it handles adware, a form of malware that pushes unwanted advertisements to the user. As of July 1, the company's security products will immediately stop any adware they detect and notify the user, who can then restore the program if they wish. Currently, when any of Microsoft's security products (including Microsoft Security Essentials and Microsoft Forefront) detects a program as adware, it will alert the user and offer them a recommended action. If the user doesn't do anything, the security product will let the program continue to run until the user makes a decision." If adware is malware, why wait until July?

65 of 177 comments (clear)

  1. adware is malware by ClaraBow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    when it deceives the user into buying shady and often worthless products.

    1. Re:adware is malware by The123king · · Score: 2

      I'd define certain MS products as crapware, not malware. When they charge you $100 extra with the Ultimate editions of windows for a glitzy interface and a few features you could get for free from other vendors, that's crapware, but the underlying core of Windows (and the win32/RT API) certainly isn't.

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
    2. Re:adware is malware by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No.... when they don't pay the fee to Microsoft. Microsoft wants to control all the advertising on the Start Screen and the Desktop alike.

      Of course if you use Microsoft approved advertising methods, and pay Microsoft the relevant fees, you'll get a pass.

    3. Re:adware is malware by Smauler · · Score: 2

      I wonder when microsoft will get around to getting their vendors to stop accepting kickbacks for shitty adware on new systems.

      This practice is one of the reasons why I still build my own desktop systems. Getting rid of the junk is a massive hassle, and restoration of the system from partition brings it all back.

    4. Re:adware is malware by Hypotensive · · Score: 1

      adware is malware when the user didn't explicitly want to install it.

    5. Re:adware is malware by Cyberdyne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder when microsoft will get around to getting their vendors to stop accepting kickbacks for shitty adware on new systems.
      This practice is one of the reasons why I still build my own desktop systems. Getting rid of the junk is a massive hassle, and restoration of the system from partition brings it all back.

      I hate the usual crap that gets shovelled on too, but to be fair Microsoft have apparently been pushing against that for a few years now for exactly that reason. Of course, they need to tread carefully there for legal reasons: if they block, say, Dell bundling a limited-time version of Norton Anti-virus, Dell won't be happy (they lose the $5 or whatever kickback) and Symantec will probably lawyer up and come knocking, particularly with Microsoft offering their own AV product now. Remember all the fallout when they killed off Netscape, when they stopped IBM from bundling OS/2 as a dual-boot setup with Windows? We both know this is different, but Microsoft's lawyers are apparently paranoid about crossing that line again.
      I'm told they also offer crapware-free machines in their own stores, which makes sense. I just wish they'd make OEMs ship a plain vanilla Windows install disk like they used to, no more "restore" BS - so anyone wanting a clean machine can just re-install.

    6. Re:adware is malware by lgw · · Score: 1

      I know you! You're the guy who bought an adapter to charge his cell phone from the power available from a landline connector, just to rub it in, aren't you?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:adware is malware by lgw · · Score: 1

      I wonder when microsoft will get around to getting their vendors to stop accepting kickbacks for shitty adware on new systems.

      Arguably, the Nokia acquisition is partly their way of addressing that. Now that MS will also sell hardware, you'll at least have one vendor who doesn't lard up the system with junk.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    8. Re:adware is malware by cffrost · · Score: 1

      I'd define certain MS products as crapware, not malware. When they charge you $100 extra with the Ultimate editions of windows for a glitzy interface and a few features you could get for free from other vendors, that's crapware, but the underlying core of Windows (and the win32/RT API) certainly isn't.

      I've never heard of "crapware" before, but charging money for something that has no monetary value (as it's offered for free by another entity) sounds to me like fraud.

      I think it's certainly malicious when MS informs NSA about various security holes in their products prior to patching them — it's difficult for me to conceive a better way to undermine customers' trust.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    9. Re:adware is malware by Babbster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've never heard of "crapware" before, but charging money for something that has no monetary value (as it's offered for free by another entity) sounds to me like fraud.

      That's complete nonsense; if true, it would mean nearly every piece of commercial software was fraud, from office software to image editing software to antivirus software.

    10. Re:adware is malware by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Informative

      Of course if you use Microsoft approved advertising methods, and pay Microsoft the relevant fees, you'll get a pass.

      That's exactly what's happening.

      Windows 8 has a built-in advertising layer. Microsoft's not doing this to help customers, they're just eliminating competitors.

      The answer of just how wrong Microsoft is to cram advertisements in its commercial software will differ from person to person, I'm sure. Me, I'm not too bothered, but I can totally relate to anyone who is. From all I can tell, none of the ads are intrusive, and I appreciate that. As for them being in paid software, that doesn't bother me either because of that above fact. However, I am bothered by other aspects.

      The biggest mistake here on Microsoft's behalf is that no one is made aware of these ads until they happen to stumble on them. No one is going to expect ads to be loaded in their paid-for OS, so a notification of that at first boot would be appreciated. Further, no one is given the option to disable them (though I'm sure it'd take little more than an editing of the hosts file). Finally, there's also the fact that these ads haven't decreased the price of the OS, else that'd be a point Microsoft would no doubt flaunt.

      http://hothardware.com/News/Mi...

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    11. Re:adware is malware by mysidia · · Score: 4, Interesting
    12. Re:adware is malware by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Yes, because one common tactic used by malware is to block the sites of anti-virus software and update servers with the hosts file. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:adware is malware by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Part of the deal for getting cheap OEM copies of Windows is that you don't bundle a generic install disc that could be used on other machines. It has to be tied to the original hardware. Such a disc wouldn't be much use to most users anyway, since it would make restoring the machine to factory difficult. You need to figure out which partition Windows was on, wipe it, re-install, install drivers, install support utilities for all those extra buttons and what-not, re-install anti-virus etc. Believe it or no consumers actually prefer a simple "insert disc and it goes back to factory" set up.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:adware is malware by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      You definition is not just idiotic - it's downright insane. Applied to both software and everything else actually.

      "Why would I pay for Photoshop when I can have Gimp for free?"
      "Why would I pay for a car when I can walk for free?"
      "Why would I pay for a soft drink when I can get water for free from the tap?"

      Paying often gets you something you wouldn't get from free option. Such as convenience, additional functionality and so on.

    15. Re:adware is malware by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      Which is why the answer is not a hosts file, but a local (caching) DNS server. It also has the benefit of not slowing down DNS lookups when you get a massive table of blocked destinations.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    16. Re:adware is malware by Jeruvy · · Score: 1

      Your just not thinking this thru enough.  Perhaps your moronic ideals don't work in this context.

      -- "Why would I pay for Photoshop when I can have Gimp for free?"

      You can get Photoshop for free, either borrow/take or steal a copy from someone.

      --"Why would I pay for a car when I can walk for free?"

      You can get cars for virtually free by renting one (Less than a cab fare) or just steal one.  Free car.

      --"Why would I pay for a soft drink when I can get water for free from the tap?"

      This just makes sense though.  You should not buy soft drinks even if you are insane rich.

      --
      Jeruvy
  2. Why? by Spad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Presumably because of a deal struck with one of those weasel-word named "industry associations" like the "Really Helpful Consumer Notification Group" that represent shitty companies that do shitty things and who probably went to Microsoft and said "we need X amount of time to make sure our products meet your new standards so they don't get blocked" for which you can read "we need some time to find a way around your blocking so we can continue being shitty".

    1. Re:Why? by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Damn you for reading my mind! That's exactly what's happening. They have to build a list of exceptions, and I'm sure one can get on that list for a "small fee".

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:Why? by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2

      Or they tried to minimize impact to their business by only inviting lawsuits from antivirus vendors on charges of anticompetitive behavior for bundling MSE. And did not want to take on additional enemies, since virus creators are unlikely to raise a fuss. But now they are taking that extra step, again with minimal business risk.

      And, if they announce mse will block adware, it has to be pretty good day one because it will be immediately tested. Announcing plans gives consumers a good feeling, and legit businesses time to turn into an opt in model that gives users something. And time to develop and test the process that gets software blacklisted.

      So if your explanation is correct, there was already a private announcement, and a deal. Microsoft made a public announcement that it did not have to make for another several months anyway, and businesses have 6 months to modify their software.

      My version gives them the same time period, with no shady deals needed. And it matches normal business practice of announce then deliver. And it shows familiarity with the legally hostile world they have created for themselves, as well as their past behavior in that regard.

      But you're right, "conspiracy" makes much more sense, and of course "paid off" makes even more, to address the other reply.

    3. Re:Why? by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "we need some time to find a way around your blocking so we can continue being shitty".

      Well, sure, but not much time, and consider that products like the Java installer bundle this crap. This change is very broad, and doesn't just affect fly-by-night malware bundlers like Sourceforge.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  3. baby steps by noh8rz10 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    MS is walking a fine line as it tries to transition from a company that sees users as the target to be exploited and a company that sees users as the customers. Remember all the crapware like Norton installed on every new PC. MS was cool with this because it enabled the OEMs to them more $$. If they were user focused they would have never allowed it.

    Now they're trying to move to an apple model where the user is first. blocking adware is part of this. but turning a big ship takes time, and there are a lot of long-time corporate relationships that need to change, so they are phasing in this new policy to block adware by default.

    Now that MS has gotten the "customer is king" memo, there are only two companies that see users as a resource to be exploited for gain, and customers as partners to assist in this exploitation: goog and fb.

    1. Re:baby steps by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Erh... both Google and FB treat their customers actually rather well.

      You? You mean they don't treat YOU well? No, wait, you're not the customer, you're the product.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:baby steps by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      You haven't read the previous posts all the way through. The scenario under discussion is that Microsoft restricts their OS to their own hardware, the way Apple. Which vendors which switch? All of them. Under this scenario, they wouldn't have a choice--MS would no longer be selling to them.

    3. Re:baby steps by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      MS is walking a fine line as it tries to transition from a company that sees users as the target to be exploited and a company that sees users as the customers.

      Really? With Microsoft's new focus on social and free-to-use cloud services, I see them as following Facebook and Google and going the other direction.

    4. Re:baby steps by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      I agree, they make an intuitive platform for customers to use. Adwords and Adsense, eg. Or were you referring to the users of these sites? Users are the product, the commodity to be sold.

    5. Re:baby steps by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      Depends on the revenue model. If they're using cloud to drive subscriptions a la office365, then users are the customers. If they're using the cloud and social to sell advertising, then users are the product.

    6. Re:baby steps by c2me2 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft was not "cool with this". Microsoft is legally prevented from interfering in the software that OEMs (Dell, HP, etc.) install on PCs. The OEMs are responsible for all the crapware, not Microsoft.

  4. Does that include Bing Bar? by Glasswire · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One person's adware / malware is another's vital revenue stream.

    1. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And don't forget Skype. Oh, for all installations of Skype to suddenly be blocked!

      Also advertisements are immoral so I couldn't give a fuck if business owners (I am one, before you cry "pinko commie!") need to find another way to pay for their yachts.

    2. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by Deathlizard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wouldn't call the Bing Bar (or the Bing desktop for that matter) Adware per say simply because it doesn't attempt to sell anything, but it definitely is bundleware and needs to die in a fire like the rest of the toolbar garbage.

      That's going to be the real test for this initiative. Is it going to at least ask you remove the more legitimate toolbars like Ask, Bing Yahoo and Google Toolbars or is it going to ignore them. If it ignores them, Conduit's going to have a field day suing the hell out of MS for blocking their "Non harming" toolbar while ignoring the others. If they do detect them they better make sure Bing Bar is on the list or Google will be screaming "Antitrust" until the cows come home

    3. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bing Bar nothing. Windows 8 includes an unavoidable banner ad for the Windows Store.

    4. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by fightersfury · · Score: 1

      What about the Xbox home screen? You pay a certain amount of money for the system. You pay 50$ a year to ACCESS their online services. Then they shove ads all over that auto-play when you scroll over them.

      Seems like it's adware when anyone else is doing it, but if MS does it, it's golden.

    5. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by sconeu · · Score: 2

      What bugs me about Bing Bar is that I hide it every time it shows up in Windows Update.

      Yet the next Patch Tuesday, there it is, just like Groundhog Day.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    6. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by Deathlizard · · Score: 2

      If I had to make a call there, it would be Ad Supported. Although MS is getting very ad happy with their metro apps as of late. Hell even Solitaire is coming with Ad's now. At least so far they've been static images which i'm ok with more than virus infected flash ads. The same goes with banner ads for Android apps as well.

      I define Adware as an application installed by a third party that is not associated directly with the downloaded app in any way and disrupts your experience outside of that particular app. A good example would be bundleware installers that love to install VLC media player for you as well as "Value added apps to enhance your experience" (if you want to see what I mean, Search for VLC media player in Google and Bing and click on one of the ads) or ads in the android notification bar popping up every 5 minutes.

      Now this is where it gets dicey. What if the developer Wants you to see ads because its their revenue stream? Fine, but only show the ads when I'm directly using the app. I don't want you making money off me when I'm browsing the web by covering up malware infected website ads with malware infected banners (BTW I use Adblock plus for this reason), or annoy me about how I need to pay you to fix my 23409 registry errors every 5 minutes by about 12 different registry scanners running on my machine at once sucking down CPU time to scan. Or notify me that there's this great game I need to download from Google play every five seconds.

    7. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by oji-sama · · Score: 2

      Perhaps you should uninstall it as it would remove the need to update it? (I've never seen a Bing Bar update)

      --
      It is what it is.
    8. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      It's not an update. It keeps on asking me if I want to install it.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    9. Re:Does that include Bing Bar? by David_W · · Score: 1

      Pay attention to the version numbers. Basically (and I'm making up the numbers here), if you tell it to hide v5, the next time it'll offer v4. Hide that, v3. And so on. They go away once you've told it to hide every one of them. And it'll come back whenever they release v6, but if you've hidden all the others, once you hide that it won't show up again until v7. So it takes some effort, but they can be squashed, eventually.

  5. About time by Deathlizard · · Score: 1

    It's about time they start doing something about adware. At least put that "Low Threat" section in MSE to good use.

    On the other hand, if they detect adware the same way the other AV's do, I wont be out of a day job. The only thing I've found that removes adware is ADWCleaner and the Junkware Removal Tool. The rest either don't detect it all, Detect only the most virulent or damaging forms of it, or detect it and won't remove it.

    1. Re:About time by bmo · · Score: 1

      A few years ago I believe the courts determined that these programs where legitimate programs and listing them as spyware or malware was illegal.

      No they didn't.

      A lot of spammers and malware authors shout about "free speach" but the only court case where a spammer won was where Spamhaus replied to the lawsuit but didn't show up. Which was later overturned.

      --
      BMO

  6. Microsoft blocks Slashdot Beta????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Works for me.

  7. Re:But that's the deal, surely? by Joce640k · · Score: 2

    Is that not the deal? You get the program for sort-of-free, the price being that you get adverts displayed.

    Spoken like somebody who hasn't had to remove "Babel toolbar" from anybody's machine and try to get the machine working normally again...

    --
    No sig today...
  8. Microsoft's security products? by rossdee · · Score: 1

    Does that include the standard windows firewall?

  9. Because ... by jamesl · · Score: 1

    If adware is malware, why wait until July?

    Because if they just popped it on the unsuspecting world with neither prior notification nor opportunity for users and IT professionals to react and inform, pundits would be caught unaware and unprepared and spend the next weeks complaining. Loudly. Vociferously. Obnoxiously. And users would be more pissed off than they will be in any case.

    1. Re:Because ... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Now, because they announced it beforehand, pundits will spend the next weeks complaining, loudly vociferously, obnoxiously, all the way until MS actually release it. Users will be as pissed of as in the other scenario, because despite the previous communication, they won't bother listening, and won't know about it anyway.

  10. Aimed at FBI screen locking adware by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

    They're well behind the times. They're apparently aiming at things like this ransomware (http://privacy-pc.com/how-to/fbi-moneypak-virus-computer-locked-by-fbi.html) There are unfortunately a lot of ad tools out there right now that still try to lock your application to their web site. And I recently had to have a long talk with someone at work who browsed a porn site and had a dozen or so pop-ups _under_ his active screen, all showing webcam pornography. When he tried to close the web browser, the pop-unders were displayed, and it forced me to talk to him about keeping his workspace visitor safe.

    1. Re:Aimed at FBI screen locking adware by mysidia · · Score: 1

      When he tried to close the web browser, the pop-unders were displayed, and it forced me to talk to him about keeping his workspace visitor safe.

      That's nice.... in many organizations; browser accessing a porn site would have to be reported to HR, and it would generally be grounds for immediate termination.

      OH yeah.... even if it did happen to be Adware that caused the porn to be displayed while they were operating it, b/c the user got their computer infected...

    2. Re:Aimed at FBI screen locking adware by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      As it happened, he wasn't browsing at work. He was browsing at home, and since some employees are on call and need to respond quickly to service requests, he was off duty but using his work laptop for personal use. When he opened his laptop in the morning, it wasn't even in the active tab of his browser so wasn't apparent. But when he minimized the browser to show something else to a co-worker, oh my.

      Separating personal use from workspace resources can be very awkward, especially with companies where "Bring Your Own Device" is supported, or where you're laptop is company purchased.

  11. Dealing with the problem at the wrong end by eneville · · Score: 2

    Why disable software once it's installed? Shouldn't you at least attempt to stop the program getting installed first? Rather than open the front door and let the crap in, keep the door locked and screen your visitors.

  12. Why wait till july? by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

    Maybe cause they want to make sure that XP users get punished for not coughing up the cash for a worse OS?

    I'm trying Win 7 right now, it's slower on searching, locks up the PC if it hits a damaged file on a PC while searching, and doesn't even have a responsive mouse until it's been moving for ten or fifteen seconds - it's like the driver for the mouse goes into sleep mode after inactivity.

    I bought my Dad a PC as a christmas present - He's not very polite on how he describes windows 8.

    I want XP back.

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    1. Re:Why wait till july? by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      First I heard of it, Will it be able to play all my games?

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    2. Re:Why wait till july? by Arker · · Score: 1

      Yes, but when depends on the requirements of the games.

      If they are games that can be coaxed into running on the server version of XP ("Windows Server 2003")  then they should be working in the 1.0 release. Otherwise you would be lating for a later release.

      http://www.reactos.org/user-faq

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  13. Permablock Camfrog by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Their ads try to install things on your system without your knowledge.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  14. skype ads by feds · · Score: 1

    why they don't start removing unwanted advertisements from Skype instead?

  15. partners by Tom · · Score: 2

    If adware is malware, why wait until July?

    Because they need to give time to their OEM and other partners as well as their own departments to transition to something that'll bypass this change.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  16. Total agree by pettertom · · Score: 1

    i am total agree with you in this matter. Mobile Phone Solutions

  17. The real question... by Hamsterdan · · Score: 2

    Will it prevent the Bing bar from being installed ?

    --
    I've got better things to do tonight than die.
  18. Re:But that's the deal, surely? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    The adware they are talking about is the crap that gets installed without consent and then proceeds to replace ads on web pages with other ads.

    ...until their adware server goes down. Then they call me and say "Internet isn't working!!!"

    Kill them all. With fire.

    --
    No sig today...
  19. They're "impersonating me" now too... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How f'ing pitiful can this pack of underducated clucks get http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... for Pete's sake?

    * LMAO - how STUPID could they be??

    Doing that, they're only ADMITTING I totally dismanted & destroyed them easily, with facts they cannot overcome...

    (Really DOES make me laugh...)

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, they're not intelligent enough OR educated enough to realize that mistake of theirs, in *trying* vainly to "take me on", especially on hosts... apk

  20. Re:But that's the deal, surely? by awshidahak · · Score: 1

    Babel Toolbar isn't the "free program". Babel Toolbar is what gets installed as the price of the free program.

  21. The big boys' conceit is.... by musth · · Score: 1

    ...that the advertisements that they serve are "wanted".

  22. Adware/Malware distinction? by tbg58 · · Score: 1

    My own definition of malware is "Any piece of software on your computer which is under the control of someone other than the computer owner." Under this definition adware would be considered malware.

    Antivirus vendors of course refer to several classes of malware, including rootkits, trojans, viruses, worms (all of which classifications derive from the method the malware uses for propagation and activation). The actions of malware are various as well - botnets, rootkits, keyloggers, phishing redirectors, crypto-extortion, fake AV are a few. Adware including browser hijackers, unwanted toolbars and other unwanted BHOs seem to be the category at which the new Microsoft targeting is aimed. These sorts of programs are called PUPs (potentially unwanted programs) by the AV vendors, though under my definition they would be classed as malware.

    Microsoft have made a further distinction in adware as "any program which brings up ads in ANOTHER PROGRAM." These are what would be blocked. and this is not unhelpful, however one should remember that Microsoft's malware protection has been decertified by most antivirus ratings consortia, so how good the MS product will be is anyone's guess.

  23. Re:Tom = multiple /. sockpuppet using scum by AAWood · · Score: 1

    ...Yeah, no, I'm not Tom. If I was, I probably wouldn't be asking you to tell everyone why I'm wrong, would I?

    So. Plain answers. No random links. Go.

  24. Re:Tom = multiple /. sockpuppet using scum by AAWood · · Score: 1

    Aaand, that wasn't meant to be none-AC, but whatever, I suppose it clears up the issue!

  25. Re:Tom = multiple /. sockpuppet using scum by AAWood · · Score: 1

    Well, just for fun; answers, no links.