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Slashdot Asks: Will You Need the Windows XP Black Market?
NicknamesAreStupid (1040118) writes "As Whoever57 pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP — the 'haves'. However, most will be the 'have nots.' Anytime you have such market imbalance, there is opportunity. Since Microsoft clearly intends to create a disparity, there will certainly be those who defy it. What will Microsoft do to prevent bootleg patches of XP from being sold to the unwashed masses? How will they stop China from supporting 100 million bootleg XP users? And how easily will it be to crack Microsoft's controls? How big will the Windows XP patch market be?"
There are a lot of businesses still on Windows XP; if you work for one of them, will the official end of life spur actually cause you to upgrade? (And if so, to what?)
I'm going to run XP in a VM from Linux. Anytime I get infected, I'll just restore to before the infection.
Seriously? Nobody even bothered to read the first sentence of the submission?
Looks like XP, mostly works like XP, closer to XP than Win 8, easier upgrade path than Win 8, lower rate of support calls from friends and family ...and in my experience, it's lighter and faster and more responsive than XP. So, no, I won't be laying out hundreds of pounds/dollars on a new machine or even more hundreds on replacing all the software that will not work on Win 8.
"Cock Up Your Beaver" does not mean what you think. This sig is intended to clog filters and annoy do-gooders
Any idea how many of these XP systems are actually air-gapped and offline? If they're not connected to anything and require local-access to hack, what point is there really to upgrade?
If UK govt paid $9M for 12 months, how much does it cost to upgrade 680,000 PC's? A lot of them will probably need new hardware.
At a pure guess of $500 per PC, including new Office licenses, some new hardware, labour, etc. over 12 months, $9M is only 3% of the total cost. They could invest the upgrade money and make a profit from buying extended support.
what on earth does that sentence mean?
What do you mean what on earth does that sentence mean what on earth does that sentence mean - the haves?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Linux Mint Cinnamon [is] closer to XP than Win 8
But how well does Wine run apps that run on Windows XP? Last time I checked, the iTunes Store client ran on Windows XP but not on Wine. And how well does Wine run applications that control expensive-to-replace peripherals with Windows XP drivers? I imagine one would need ReactOS to run those, as among free operating systems, only ReactOS implements enough NT infrastructure to have any chance of running Windows XP drivers.
Can an unused retail copy of XP be activated? Will MS support THAT?
What will I do? Probably keep working from a known image and patch it up as best I can.
In other words, the same thing I've done with legacy DOS, 95, Novell, 98 and 2k systems.
My hope is that at some point I can find a low-overhead Linux or BSD system to use as a VM host, and then have access to every operating system since the dawn of the 4004.
Futurist Traditionalism
It's DAZzling :)
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
I had to read this 3 time to verify that i was not still drunk 3 times to verify drunk that i was still not drunk.
What software are you using that keeps you on XP?
Take advantage of the hive-mind, there may be alternatives or workarounds.
Then it must have changed very recently: garbage in 1.7.5 (December 2013), gold in 1.7.15 (April 2014). I wonder what breaking change Apple will introduce in the next version.
It clearly states that anyone supporting XP after Microsoft disowns to OS is a 'CRIMINAL'.
Under current copyright law, Microsoft could make a good faith case that anybody else providing modifications to its copyrighted operating systems is committing criminal infringement of copyright. I don't see how stating a reasonable interpretation of current law is "propaganda".
Actually, as tested in EU courts
Slashdot is subject to the jurisdiction of US courts, not EU courts.
you are just as entitled to use it with or without the official support of the original manufacturing company.
Using it doesn't include modifying it, which is what third parties providing support would have to do in order to let their clients keep using it without known security holes. And there's precedent against that: Apple successfully sued in the United States a company that was selling PCs along with the patch to run OS X on them. Put Apple v. Psystar in your favorite web search engine.
Nobody in their right mind is going to resort to the black market for XP support for a business -- it'd be like *inviting* the crackers into your network.
Home users either won't know how or won't care to bother. Most people I know who are still running XP have been virus-infected for months or even years. As long as it lets them play YouTubes, check their gMail, and surf Crackbook they just flat out don't *care* that the machine is infected.
Hell, most of them don't even realize the adware popups they keep seeing are due to an *infection*, not "bad behaviour" on the part of the aforementioned websites. One fellow I knew used to complain about the "popups from YouTube" all the time, 'cause all he ever did was YouTube and Crackbook. As far as he was concerned, it was YouTube that was putting up all the porn ads.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
F the Linux developer community for going down the same path at the same time as Metro
What "same path as Metro"? I don't see "modern" tiley garbage on my copy of Xubuntu. Its user interface behaves more like Windows 2000/XP than Windows 8 without Classic Shell does.
"As Whoever57 pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP pointed out, there are some who will still get support for Microsoft Windows XP — the 'haves'
what on earth does that sentence mean? this is even worse than Timothy's earlier oversight of re-running the same article less than a week after its first run. we know slashdot doesn't pay editors to edit, but could they at least show enough pride in their job to read what they post?
This kind of poor quality work is what long ago dissuaded me from ever paying for a Slashdot subscription. I block ads, too, since before my karma level gave me the option of having Slashdot do it for me. That was all before Malda sold out to Dice Holdings. It's not improved since.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
I'm a Windows XP user. I see no need to upgrade. The only circumstances in which I would upgrade is either I can't find hardware to run XP on or the data I process (documents, music, video) have no applications I can use on XP. These circumstances forced me from 98 to 2000 and now XP.
Yes, I'm going to have to take care to stop being infected by malware. Good anti-virus, good firewall, Chrome browser, safe surfing habits, care with email.
If you would like a similar analogy people drive old cars with drum brakes, no seat belts, no air bags and no crush zones in modern traffic. They see no need to upgrade as well. Just take care and be sensible.
How would [providing third-party updates to Windows XP components] be different from (i.e. less legitimate than) publishing a device driver, AV suite, or other system-level software?
Device drivers, antivirus suites, and the like don't need to replace Windows system files with fixed versions of the same code to function. Windows updates do. And because they'd be providing versions of the same (Microsoft) code without the permission of the owner of copyright in that code, they would likely infringe* Microsoft's copyright.
* Slashdot posts aren't Legal Advice(tm).
I think it speaks more to the quality of opensource that the masses would rather run a 12 year old OS.
For any scammer who pretends to install an XP patch, but actually installs malware.
You don't pay for a subscription to reward the editors. You do it because occasionally someone will say something so insightful you want to review everything else he's ever written here.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Not every story is about an imagined divide. Some have an imagined divide whereas others do not.
My business uses software that was written for serial communication that simply doesn't work on windows 7, nor 8. The cost of replacing the software is more than having a couple dozen thinkpads with windows xp installed handy in case one goes down and we can't get support. At that we've even tried to have new software written and the vendors who took on the task simply couldn't get it to work. Then we run into the damn hardware problem I still can't find a serial to usb adapter that runs across at 1200 baud.
The only circumstances in which I would upgrade is [...] the data I process (documents, music, video) have no applications I can use on XP. [...] Yes, I'm going to have to take care to stop being infected by malware. Good anti-virus [...] Chrome browser
So long as Google and the publishers of "good anti-virus" continue to support Windows XP. Otherwise, "the data [you] process" (virus definitions and HTML documents) would "have no applications [you] can use on XP". Support for Chrome on Windows XP will continue longer, possibly as a side effect of support on Windows Server 2003, but even that's going away in a year.
good firewall
If security researchers (wearing any color hat) exploit a defect in the TCP/IP stack of Windows XP, a firewall running on Windows XP is unlikely to help you much.
Given that somebody clearly took the trouble to make Unofficial patch sets for Windows 98, we can fully expect unofficial patch sets for Windows XP
http://www.mdgx.com/upd98me.ph...
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
How would [providing third-party updates to Windows XP components] be different from (i.e. less legitimate than) publishing a device driver, AV suite, or other system-level software?
Device drivers, antivirus suites, and the like don't need to replace Windows system files with fixed versions of the same code to function. Windows updates do. And because they'd be providing versions of the same (Microsoft) code without the permission of the owner of copyright in that code, they would likely infringe* Microsoft's copyright.
* Slashdot posts aren't Legal Advice(tm).
It wouldn't be possible to provide only a binary patch that contains just the modifications to said files? That would also infringe copyright?
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
I had my printer and scanner up and running in 15 minutes after a brief search for drivers.
I got printing and scanning working on Linux, but I needed to replace my existing printer and scanner with an HP Officejet 4500 because the page for my old scanner on the SANE project's web site had said "unsupported" for years. It must be even worse for companies that will need to replace a multi-thousand-dollar CNC mill. They'll probably just need to air gap the machine that controls it and continue to run unsupported XP.
You don't pay for a subscription to reward the editors. You do it because occasionally someone will say something so insightful you want to review everything else he's ever written here.
But your payment does reward the company and its staff. There is no way around that. They don't deserve it, their shoddy work hasn't earned it, and no fringe benefit of extra database access is enough to convince me otherwise.
Your value system may vary. I for one was speaking for myself.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Most of them can solate the XP machines in a private network, very much like i isolated the Windows98 machines (Thanks, Tektronix) a few years back.
Then we run into the damn hardware problem I still can't find a serial to usb adapter that runs across at 1200 baud.
Couldn't you make such an adapter out of a microcontroller like the one in an Arduino kit?
Linux has a Dramatically better hardware support than XP,Vista,7 or 8 has combined.
Dramatically better on the whole? Perhaps. Better for every particular device? Not necessarily. There are probably plenty of edge cases that have an XP driver and no Linux driver at all. Does SANE support the Microtek ScanMaker 4850 flatbed scanner yet? It appears not.
you need to upgrade. Sooner or later one of the poorly policed ad networks will serve you up a virus. I run some ads off my home page to pay for hosting/etc and I stick to google's ads because so far every site I browse has been shut down at least once when their ad networks served up a virus. Angry Nintendo Nerd, Spoony Experiment, Something Positive. All of them. Heck, I think even Penny Arcade's been nailed.
:(...
It's not a matter if if, it's when. Which is why I'm posting from Win 7 today
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
It wouldn't be possible to provide only a binary patch that contains just the modifications to said files? That would also infringe copyright?
That depends on how a particular judge decides to apply precedents related to Apple v. Psystar.
What market? All you need is one person to give it out for free and the market collapses. Nobody will make a penny on XP bootleg patches.
The objective of applying security updates from Microsoft is to make your OS safer by applying fixes delivered by a trusted party. MS may not be perfectly "trusted" but at least it has to worry about the liability of any fishy piece of software they install in your computer. On the other hand any source from the "black market" can simply deliver rootkits and any kind of malware disguised as security updates which certainly defies the purpose of applying updates.
And guess what, 6 to 13 years from now windows 7/8.1 will go the same way as XP, and so we will have the same dance as we have now. Why not small and big businesses get together and start supporting(hire software developers) linux or even bsd instead of wasting time and money on MS products. Windows 9 beta this year and rtm next year.
Haven't needed that shit since 2003.
You claim that making and distributing patched components of a copyrighted operating system for a fee is equivalent to writing in the margins of physical textbooks that you own. One is very likely fair use; one is very likely not. A determination of fair use under United States copyright law always depends on the facts of a particular case. One is done privately in an educational context; the other is done publicly for financial gain.
Its not a black market if 3rd party companies decide to continue support XP.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Have you looked into a serial-to-ethernet converter, like the ones made by Moxa?
I'm sure when you signed the legaly binding contract to get the source code that you'd have to have to modify to compile to get the binary patch, their was a clause prohibiting you from distributing any binaries from the source or derivatives of the source.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
I'm all for extending the life of old machines. I know a lot of people are very happy with XP and don't need a new OS or computer, but there are times when it's just easier to move on and other times when it's better to stick with it.
Any competent admin would have started a migration to win7 a long time ago. Short of industrial use (e.g. a computer that controls machinery) there's little incentive to stick with xp. Patches to the OS are going to be of limited value for industrial applications anyway, as a competent setup would isolate the machines to a very secure private network (if any) and have multiple barriers of defense set up.
Nice straw man. Thirty two bit software runs fine on 64 bit OSes these days for the most part. You're comparing apples and rocks, not even apples and oranges.
If I could tell that to your work I would, because that's the result of bad management and nothing else. There's been ample time to plan upgrades. I feel for you, but I would suggest you start looking for a new job if the place you work for is so poorly managed.
Patches exist. A big country could pass a law to force MS to publish them in the sake of national interest, or pay a huge daily a fine (or give up the market in that big country).
Damn. I'm fresh out of mod points. :^)
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
I'm sure when you signed the legaly binding contract to get the source code that you'd have to have to modify to compile to get the binary patch, their was a clause prohibiting you from distributing any binaries from the source or derivatives of the source.
You don't need the source code to make a patch for a binary - there are a million cracked computer games out there that were patched by third parties without access to the source.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
The fact that one is done by computer, the other by hand, shouldn't change anything.
Shouldn't but does. The outer packaging of copies of Microsoft PC software states that the software is licensed, not sold, under terms set forth at a particular URL. The prospective "buyer" is expected to view these terms on an Internet terminal inside the store. And if a work is licensed, not sold, even copying the program from the hard disk into RAM to run it appears to require Microsoft's permission because the defense under 17 USC 117(a)(1) is available only to the owner of a copy, not a licensee. Precedents differ between the United States and the European Union, however: Vernor v. Autodesk (USA 9th Circuit) upheld "licensed, not sold", but UsedSoft v. Oracle (European Court of Justice) applied "if it quacks like a sale".
The year of the Linux desktop is finally here!
For Windows 2k and above virtual box works well.
Yes-- I run 2k, XP, and 8 in virtualbox. It also does DOS well enough. Windows 3.11 is a little flaky on the mouse, but otherwise ok. I have problems writing to floppy disks in virtualbox; reading works fine. OSX seems to have some issues too (for me): in particular, networking seems very slow and sharing directly with host machine's not working. Personally I only use XP in virtualbox... I've got a couple friends who have XP for their main OS and they plan to keep using it. One of them asked me if their computer would keep working after April.
"What are you doing here, Elijah?"
While you should get all available patches installed, it's not absolutely critical that you receive new updates, because, by now, you should be operating under the assumption that your machines are compromised, or at least compromisable. The last decade of patch tuesdays proves this. Unfortunately, most corporate policies revolve around these treadmills out of vendor-driven misguided fear of potential liability suits. The reality is that windows 8 will eventually have the same long list of patch tuesdays xp has.
The best way to secure your systems is to deny your employees access to the net. If your company does devwork, then put the programmers on their own subnet separate from the rest of the corporate network, and give them their own route to the net. The secretary doesn't need to browse facebook on her desktop.
ReactOS community edition. https://www.indiegogo.com/proj...
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https://www.indiegogo.com/proj...
Just... no. Stop using XP. Ideally, stop using Windows. But at least stop using XP.
Because I don't unnecessarily cling to the past. I move on and adapt to the the world.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Granted, you can buy the whole album on a shiny disc, or you can break the law
Except any Youtube downloader (including for mobile phones) have no trouble whatsoever downloading that video.
I covered that: "or you can break the law". Technically, YouTube downloader apps violate the YouTube Terms of Service, which in the United States is likely* a criminal violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
* Again, only lawyers offer Legal Advice(tm).
I mean you only replace a pump's pressure switch when it fails.
Try on this analogy for size: A flaw has been found in the pump that causes its pressure switch to fail every time when exposed to a new chemical in the liquid that it is pumping. This chemical has become widespread since the pump was manufactured for one of two reasons: either A. it is a pollutant that new industrial activity has started to release, or B. environmental regulations or controlled substance regulations now require its addition.
I just completed a migration of 3 machines for a client.
1 XP machine was replaced with a different machine running Vista Home Premium.Their UPS shipping data was migrated to the new machine, as well as updating the software.
1 XP machine was upgraded to a fresh install of Windows 7 Professional.This machine also had to have a 'forced upgrade' from Quickbooks
1 XP machine was replaced with a re-certified Dell running Windows 7 Professional.
And since they had a certain piece of software they could not do without on that last machine, software that would not run/install on Windows 7, I set up a fresh XP install, fully patched and updated, on a SFF machine dedicated to that one task, which has no Internet or network access.
In the process of the migration, I also discovered torrent software installed on one machine by an as yet unidentified employee. All machines are now locked down to prevent unauthorized installation of any type of software.
Differences between how you act when some one is watching, and how you act when no one is watching, define who you are
I'm getting nostalgic for Ubuntu 10.04. I didn't use it for that long sadly before moving to 11.04 (with gnome2 interface), squeeze and such. But it was great and looked great, pinnacle of accomplishment just like XP SP1/SP2 seemed to be.
Its support was ended and I don't think anyone will come up and say "hey, I'll be providing backported security updates for all the packages for the next five years"!
I never installed the patches anyway, although I did install SP1, 2, and 3. A good firewall and common sense have kept me virus-free since DOS and floppy disk days (I got the Stoner virus about 20 years ago.)
Not gonna post any "rah rah Linux is better" nonsense. I just prefer to use Linux distros and none of my computers run Windows.
So the XP EOL doesn't affect me in the slightest.
You need to chill out to a nice, smooth rolling bassline.
Those were the days, young people.
Stick Men