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Double Take: Condoleezza Rice As Dropbox's Newest Board Member

Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State under George W. Bush, and defender of Bush-era (and onward) policies about surveillance by wiretapping and other means, has landed at an interesting place: she's just become a part of the small board at Dropbox. TechDirt calls the appointment "tone deaf," and writes "At a time when people around the globe are increasingly worried about American tech firms having too close a connection to the intelligence community, a move like this seems like a huge public relations disaster. While Rice may be perfectly qualified to hold the role and to help Dropbox with the issues it needs help with, it's hard not to believe that there would be others with less baggage who could handle the job just as well." Some people are doing more than looking for an alternative for themselves, too, as a result.

62 of 313 comments (clear)

  1. Good choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    She's pretty sharp, well connected, and understands how the government sees these types of date & service providers.

    At a she's an awesome catch for any cloud company. Throw in her political awareness and it's even better.

    1. Re:Good choice by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      She's pretty sharp

      Anyone that thought the Iraq War was a good idea, should not be described as "pretty sharp". There is a saying that 'Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good.' Condoleezza Rice is proof that we have moved past that. She is female (and black), and promoted to the highest levels, despite the failure of nearly all her policies. She is proof that you no longer have to be male to be both successful and incompetent.

    2. Re:Good choice by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      She's also just a board member. They rarely make any decisions regarding company policies or products. Instead the board is there to make sure they get paid, that the company's executives are held accountable to them, and so forth. The board is essentially the company's owners or representatives of the owners.

    3. Re:Good choice by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

      99% of the users of Dropbox will not care and for a large number of potential users she will provide sense of legitimacy.
      Goodbye paranoid trouble makers that use the free service, hello companies that pay for the service.
      I fear that some members of the tech crowd think they have more power than they really do,

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    4. Re:Good choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The Iraq war was good for all the companies involved, just like the other wars. Plus, it took down the criminal who dared to trade oil in euros, not dollars, so it was good for the State as well.

    5. Re:Good choice by khasim · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Anyone that thought the Iraq War was a good idea, should not be described as "pretty sharp".

      That depends upon whether you mean "good idea ... for the USofA" or "good idea ... for me and my friends".

      A lot of companies made a lot of money off of that war.

      She is female (and black), and promoted to the highest levels, despite the failure of nearly all her policies. She is proof that you no longer have to be male to be both successful and incompetent.

      I don't agree with that. I think that anyone, regardless of race, creed, religion, etc, will always have a job publicly supporting the existing power structure.

      She wasn't elected. She was appointed by the people who were elected. And those were white men.

      Which is why I think that she's now at DropBox. She still has those political connections. And DropBox wants to pay her for access to them.

    6. Re:Good choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      date & service providers

      dropbox == escort service?

      Urbanspoon isn't an african american dating site?

    7. Re:Good choice by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Iraq war achieved all of it's objectives:

      The objective of the war was to destroy Iraq's WMDs. The things you listed were made-up-after-the-fact justifications.

      Prior to the war, we had three goals:

      1. A united Iraq
      2. A secular Iraq
      3. An Iraq opposed to Iranian influence.

      These were also the goals of Saddam Hussein. They are NOT the goals of the current government of Iraq, which has pretty much the opposite goals (for instance, they are supporting the Assad regime in Syria).

    8. Re:Good choice by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The objective of the war was to destroy Iraq's WMDs. The things you listed were made-up-after-the-fact justifications.

      That was never the goal. That was the BS propaganda. Don't believe everything^W anything you see on the news. We didn't even hear the term "WMD" until Blair said that the UK wouldn't join us without a UN mandate.

      The UN resolution that served as the peace treaty that ended the first Gulf War included a requirement that Saddam destroy all his WMDs and provide proof that he had done so. That proof hadn't been provided, so, bingo, pretext for war. Whether Iraq actually had any WMDs was only relevant to ginning up emotional support: the propaganda mill. It was never actually important.

      BTW, it's no more important that Iraq have pro-American policies than that France does. Democracies are more open to trade and less open to war, so we benefit regardless. It's far easier for a dictator to find purely personal gain in expanding his territory regardless of sanctions, as we see in Ukraine now, for example.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:Good choice by dlt074 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "* Got our troops out of Kuwait, and anywhere else too close to Mecca"

      um no, US troops have been and will continue to be in Kuwait. not to mention Qutar.

      "*... and showing other tin-pot dictators that the US should be feared."

      the only thing Bush did that Obama has undone.

    10. Re:Good choice by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Democracies are more open to trade and less open to war, so we benefit regardless. It's far easier for a dictator to find purely personal gain in expanding his territory regardless of sanctions, as we see in Ukraine now, for example.

      Except the country that invaded Ukraine was Russia, and Russia is a democracy. It doesn't become "not a democracy" just because you don't like the guy they elected. Putin was reelected with a much bigger margin than Obama, and has sky high approval ratings.

    11. Re:Good choice by lgw · · Score: 2

      Saddam had elections - he received 100% of the vote with 100% voter turnout! Putin's still working towards that goal.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    12. Re:Good choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Saying she's a bad choice is like saying a successful defense lawyer is a bad choice because he got his client off, and you were the prosecuting attorney.

      FTFY. Because really, it has nothing to do with competence. I'm sure she's very competent. Just in a way that is bad news for dropbox users (ie, the "prosecuting attorney" in the fixed analogy).

    13. Re:Good choice by cusco · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, even Downing Street knew that the whole justification for the invasion was crap, if you remember they complained internally that "the intelligence is being fixed". Blatant falsification of data, deliberate sabotage of the WMD inspections (IIRC they were 97% complete when the US told inspectors they had to leave immediately because bombing was about to start), illegal propaganda operations targeting the US public, the whole run-up to the war was founded on lies that were exposed in the foreign press but knowingly redistributed by the US media. There may be "a consensus building", but joining that group will require deliberately forgetting everything that was actually going on at the time in favor of historical revisionism.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    14. Re:Good choice by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      It was good for Iraq since Saddam and his brutality are done and Iraq is now a functioning if troubled democracy. As a bonus the cost was less than Saddam's long term average of death and destruction, and that is now ended. And it also meant no more oil for food money being diverted to build palaces and buy weapons but instead is going to benefit the Iraqi people.

      It was also good for Europe since many European countries got either oil or construction contracts from Iraq.

      It was also good for leftist weeklies since Vietnam is ancient history and they needed something else to whine about. (I assume you subscribe to several.)

      It was also bad for al Qaida since it cost them massive support since the Arabs in the surrounding countries could see al Qaida's brutality close up.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    15. Re:Good choice by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      And you know Putins elections were not fradulant how exactly?

      1. Because independent observers, while reporting irregularities, said it was more-or-less a valid election.
      2. Because his margin of victory was almost the same as pre-election polls.

      There is a huge dissenting voice in Rusiia that somehow did not translate into the polls.

      Uh ... Putin got 63% of the vote. So the other 37% were a clear dissenting voice. But they lost. That is how democracy works.

      Keep wearing those rose colored glasses.

      Look, Putin is an autocratic bully, and all around asshole. But he is a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED asshole. The fact that you don't like him (I don't like him either) doesn't mean Russia is "not a democracy". "Democracy" means elected leaders, it doesn't mean elected leaders that America approves of.

    16. Re:Good choice by nobuddy · · Score: 2

      Hey, Saddam was know to kill up to 3 people a year! So what if a hundred thousand of his people died, and Al-Queda was able to move in to a country previously unavailable to them to begin killing locals. So long as those 3 people were saved! And my Halliburton stocks paid nice dividends.

    17. Re:Good choice by nobuddy · · Score: 2

      The USA has started more wars than any other country. Your democracy claim falls pretty damn flat at that fact.

  2. Force her out! by Dan+East · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Quick, let's boycott Dropbox so we can force her out of the company. Then after we've succeeded we can have a another Slashdot story lamenting how intolerant we've all become and we can point fingers at everyone else.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Force her out! by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      I'm not going to 'boycott' them, but I am going to stop using them, and I now no longer care who they have on their board.

      I am disconnecting anything which I have which still points to DropBox since I haven't used it in a while anyway.

      But for a company which does cloud storage to expect that people won't look at that appointment and say "oh hell no", they're sadly mistaken. You might as well appoint Alberto Gonzales as a Constitutional scholar and privacy expert.

      I'm betting DropBox suddenly sees a drop in usage.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Force her out! by mi · · Score: 2

      I am disconnecting anything which I have which still points to DropBox since I haven't used it in a while anyway.

      And I am going to install their app on my parents' phones too now, whereas before I only had it my own.

      You might as well appoint Alberto Gonzales as a Constitutional scholar and privacy expert.

      I'll certainly take Mr. Gonzales over Mr. Holder, who, without being much of an expert in anything (not even manners or sense of decorum), presided over dramatic expansion of warrant-less surveillance.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    3. Re:Force her out! by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll certainly take Mr. Gonzales over Mr. Holder

      As opposed to Gonzales who said habeus corpus wasn't really a right? Who said that torture was OK?

      You can keep him.

      I'm not defending Holder, but Gonzales didn't seem to have the barest clue about what the Constitution said and what it meant.

      Sorry, but pretty much anybody from the Bush era (and quite honestly a bunch who are still in Washington) has no business working at a place which has a privacy policy.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Force her out! by mi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Gonzales who said habeus corpus wasn't really a right

      So did Abraham Lincoln...

      Who said that torture was OK?

      For the umpteenth time: waterboarding is not torture. At most, it is "torture-lite" — anything, from which the subject walks away without bodily harm, does not qualify.

      Sorry, but pretty much anybody from the Bush era (and quite honestly a bunch who are still in Washington) has no business working at a place which has a privacy policy.

      First of all, Obama's era is only worse in this regard. I understand — and share — your contempt for all government officials, because, regardless of the party they all tend to buy into the "government knows better" concept. But a company with a privacy policy must be able to balance users' privacy with the government's requests (and demands) for cooperation.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    5. Re:Force her out! by dbIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For the umpteenth time: waterboarding is not torture

      It was torture when the North Koreans were doing it to US prisoners of war. Please tell me what has changed.

    6. Re:Force her out! by quax · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Waterboarding is regarded as torture by any other civilized country of the world.

      Doesn't matter if you type you fingers bloody or stomp your feet to pretend otherwise. Just shows what America is made of these days ... not the right stuff.

  3. Baggage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know you all think Bush and Obama are the same, but there's no way Secretary Rice has "close connections to the intelligence community" under the Obama administration.

    1. Re:Baggage? by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      You still could have... until you posted.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  4. Surely by Eddi3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Brendan Eich could be forced out for a $1,000 donation, surely Ms. Rice can be for influencing privacy policy herself, something which is highly relevant to this business. In addition, she has defended her position since leaving office. I think the real question here is where does this end?

    1. Re:Surely by Goaway · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course there are:

      http://www.drop-dropbox.com/

  5. meh by schneidafunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really don't care, this is a private company and they can hire who they want to. That being said, I assumed dropbox already was infiltrated by the NSA.

    --
    Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:meh by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That being said, I assumed dropbox already was infiltrated by the NSA.

      And now it's confirmed. Freaking astute move by the board members with gag orders and National Security Letters if you ask me.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:meh by schneidafunk · · Score: 2

      Somewhat related, I just discovered dropbox also updated their privacy policy effective since March 24.

      http://www.entrepreneur.com/ar...

      --
      Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
  6. Oh why not? by iluvcapra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    She was the provost of Stanford University, she's got a huge rolodex in government and SillyCon Valley. She's also obviously got a big background in IR and particularly working with Russia and Africa, which are both huge growth markets for Internet companies.

    Her biggest crime was not asking all the right questions, and didn't have to swag necessary to challenge Cheney or Rumsfeld, not that she was particularly motivated. She's proven to be a pretty bad administrator and manager, but she's going on the Board, not into management.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    1. Re:Oh why not? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really?

      She was intimately involved in the decision to go to war with Iraq and spoke publicly in support of it.

      She was an integral part of the Bush administration's campaign of lies surrounding the war, working to further public support of the war by lying about Iraq's non-existent weapons of mass destruction.

      Rice played a central role in affirming the "legality" of the Bush administration's torture program.

      Rice not only spoke in favor of the Bush administration's warrantless wiretap program and expansive domestic surveillance program, she authorized the warrantless wiretap of UN Security Council members.

      But you keep thinking that a extremely brilliant and accomplished individual, having obtained her Masters degree at age 20, isn't smart enough to ask the right questions or able to go toe to toe with Cheney or Rumsfeld....

    2. Re:Oh why not? by alexander_686 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is not quite true. To simplify, she was a neocon who was overconfident of what US military force could do. That would put her on the side of Dick Cheney, but on the opposite side of Rumsfeld and Powell who were urging caution.

      I will second you point on that she is very sharp but that her management of the state department was subpar.

    3. Re:Oh why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh please. We all know the real reason they hired her is because they only have to pay her 77% of what they'd pay an equivalent man. She's a bargain!

    4. Re:Oh why not? by ducomputergeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've said this before, the US Military does obliterating an opposing force quite well. Which serves well when the objective is the liberation of a territory from hostile occupation, where the US can go in, win, and then the local populace can quickly get things back the way it was. It does not do occupation very well nor really has outside of the Wester Hemisphere.

      The exception being post World War II with the Marshal Plan. Which planning for that began in 1943 and by 1945 the government had managed to twist the arms of a lot of academics, economists, finance, and high ranking industry officials to spend two years post war to help rebuild western Europe.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    5. Re:Oh why not? by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But you keep thinking that a extremely brilliant and accomplished individual, having obtained her Masters degree at age 20, isn't smart enough to ask the right questions or able to go toe to toe with Cheney or Rumsfeld....

      The problem is that, while she is smart, she is also ideological.

      If her ideology conflicts with the facts, the ideology wins.

      Not only was she NOT willing to ask question, she WAS willing to give press interviews with WRONG information. Because that WRONG information suited her ideology. Even though it would cost lives.

      NOT the kind of person YOU want on the Board of Directors of a company tasked with providing access to YOUR data.

      She didn't care enough about the lives that would be lost to ask any questions. And she cared so little for those lives that she provided wrong information to support the drive to war. Do you think that your DATA will mean more to her than that?

    6. Re:Oh why not? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2

      She gave speeches strongly advocating war in Iraq, and was an integral part of the whole process that led to a war which killed over 100,000 people. It was later solidly established that the people at the very top of the Bush administration knew their excuses for war were BS and kept repeating them anyway, and ignoring all the evidence that they were wrong.

      I keep reading about how intelligent this woman is. But given the things she's done, she sounds pretty goddamn dumb to me. It's not everyone who can say their mistakes led directly to mass death.

  7. Re:Wiretapping? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Really? National Security Advisor who supports wire tapping sitting on the board for a cloud based storage solution company. Could your post be code for stupid.

  8. Congratulations Dropbox ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been meaning to disable this for a while.

    If she's on your board, I'll get that done now.

    There is now zero room to trust DropBox as an entity.

    1. Re:Congratulations Dropbox ... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      Some of us never trusted DropBox in the first place.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  9. Low even for Slashdot by shellster_dude · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let's quit pretending this is anything but an attempt to force her out because she is/was a Republican.

    If she were a Democrat, the article would talk about the racist/sexist Republicans that were trying to force her out.

    The Democrats have only enhanced the spying and wiretapping, but you don't get outcry's about the likes of Facebook the Zuckerberg's of the world who are huge Democrat donors.

    I love to see that "tolerance" the left is famous for.

    1. Re:Low even for Slashdot by shellster_dude · · Score: 2

      I see so you want the policy to be in place so that you can be outraged that it happened instead of preventing it from happening.

      Nice slippery slope fallacy. You're 0 for 2. Care to try again?

    2. Re:Low even for Slashdot by dcollins · · Score: 4, Informative

      Let's say Republican Senator Susan Collins took this position instead. Then: No issue and no uproar.

      The problem is not that Rice is a Republican, it's that she was a part of the most terrifying Republican administration in history, and oversaw defense of torture and mass-surveillance wiretapping programs.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    3. Re:Low even for Slashdot by JeffAtl · · Score: 2

      it's that she was a part of the most terrifying Republican administration in history, and oversaw defense of torture and mass-surveillance wiretapping programs.

      So if she had been part of the most terrifying Democrat administration in history, it would be ok?

      To be clear, I consider both parties to be clowns. They are mostly all friends and laugh at all the hardcore party partisans that get all worked up and think it's real. It's just like pro wrestling. You're just a mark.

  10. The important stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Did she donate to a Prop 8 organization?

    1. Re:The important stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, she supported propping up eight dudes and having female soldiers point at their junk.

    2. Re:The important stuff by Servaas · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, she supported propping up eight dudes and having female soldiers point at their junk.

      I generally have to pay to have kinky shit like that done to me.

    3. Re:The important stuff by quax · · Score: 2

      You probably also don't die as a result.

  11. Uh oh! by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apparently they never checked her stance on Gay marriage:

    “I don’t ever want anybody to be denied rights within our country. I happen to think marriage is between a man and a woman. That’s tradition, and I believe that that’s the right answer. But perhaps we will decide that there needs to be some way for people to express their desire to live together through civil union.”

    Condoleezza Rice — Dec. 20, 2010

    I guess websites will have to protest and such and then she'll resign after 2 weeks right?

  12. Re:Wiretapping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A conservative is incapable of understanding what racism means. Seriously. Ask them to define it and they get a convoluted bundle of CRAP.

    Only a conservative would fail to understand concerns about someone who pushed the Patriot Act to the hilt as NSA adviser is 'racist.'

    It's most liberals that don't know what racism is. They sceam "racism" if someone mentions islamic terrorists. They think it's great to hire someone just because they're a minority even if they're under qualified and ignore white males when they are qualified. They don't see Affirmative Action as inherently racist, even though it's based totally on race. And they certainly love to say and do racist things about black and latino/hispanic conservatives, but throw a complete fit if a conservative says anything remotely derogatory about a democrat minority. Just note all the, "You didn't vote for Obama? Then you're a racist!" hyperbole from the likes of Chris Matthews and crew.

    Racism is believing that your race is far superior in all or most respects to other races and, more to the point, that you and they should be treated accordingly. Or, in some cases, simply judging and hating one specific race. Racism is not merely having pride in your race, even if you're white.

  13. Re:Wiretapping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Really? National Security Advisor who supports wire tapping sitting on the board for a cloud based storage solution company. Could your post be code for stupid.

    Revolving door of business and government. Having her on board increases the probability that if the Republicans gain the Senate this year, or the Presidency in 2016, the government will "encourage" its subcontractors to use Dropbox, or adopt Dropbox itself. Even if they don't, Republican-sympathetic nation states (vs. Democratically-sympathetic nation sates) are more likely to be good targets for Dropbox's enterprise sales force.

  14. Re:Wiretapping? by Fwipp · · Score: 4, Funny

    White male tears are my favorite beverage. :)

  15. Sum up... by freeze128 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not that using Dropbox is now a bad idea because Rice is on the board.... It's that using any "Cloud Based Storage" is not a good idea. Savvy readers can probably already setup and host their own servers... Why do you want to risk your data to someone else who does it "for free"?

    1. Re:Sum up... by YutakaFrog · · Score: 2

      For non-savvy users: I recommend Tresorit. I really like the interface, and they seem to have security as one of their primary focuses. Everything you store on Tresorit is encrypted before it leaves your computer / device.

      For more savvy users: SpiderOak. Its interface is ... more than a little bit convoluted. But it's got all the same security and encryption that I like about Tresorit, plus file versioning and a web interface.

  16. Re:Wiretapping? by backslashdot · · Score: 2

    Uh, her endorsement of torture. How about that, I won't do business with or respect anyone who supports torture.

  17. Team mentality by mosb1000 · · Score: 2

    I was trying to figure out why people would say that she's connected to the NSA. I was wondering if they'd say that about anyone who served in the White House (Al Gore is on Apple's board). I guess to people subscribing to a team mentality, any member of the republican leadership must be working to promote the NSA, and all the brave democrats are fighting against it.

    But in reality, it's pretty silly to think that she's going to advocate turning over all their data to the NSA just because she's on their board and has worked with the NSA in the past. It's also pretty silly to think the NSA hasn't already got that data without her help.

  18. Re:Wiretapping? by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A conservative is incapable of understanding what racism means. Seriously. Ask them to define it and they get a convoluted bundle of CRAP.

    Conservative: racism is discriminating based on race. For example, college admissions are racist if they use different requirements for different races.

    Liberal: racism is the absence of penalizing whites. For example, college admissions aren't racist as long as they penalizes whites; if they penalize Asians more than whites, that's still not racism, since whites are still penalized in some way.

    Both are simple: one seeks equality at the start of the process, the other equality at the end of the process, and both think the other hates equality, like almost everything else in the conservative/liberal divide.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  19. Re:Wiretapping? by lgw · · Score: 2

    "Big-L Libertarians" are a bunch of crazies, from all over the left-right spectrum (thus the two axes model). But mainstream conservative though is very much aligned with "classic liberalism" now - empowering individual liberty - while the mainstream left seems to value doing things for the benefit of the collective, "collective rights" (fuck you Justice Breyer, and the like. So "small-L libertarians", sure.

    But that's just another way of saying "equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome".

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  20. Was it worth 4,488 Americans dying? by turp182 · · Score: 2

    Was the Iraq war worth 36,710 dead and wounded US military personnel (4,488 dead)?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...

    The father knew not to take out Saddam. The son, not so much. And it was a war initiated on completely false pretenses (sort of a False Flag event).
     

    --
    BlameBillCosby.com
  21. Re:Wiretapping? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2

    I'd have an easier time believing in "equality of opportunity" again if economic power were more evenly distributed. Unless you're telling me a lower-class kid from the ghetto, a middle-class kid from the 'burbs, and an upper-class kid from whatever upper-class enclave you wish to name all have the same "equality of opportunity". From my vantage point, the first has opportunity of jail or long-term unemployment and welfare, the second lifelong debt and wage slavery (until about age 50, where they slide down into the lower-class), and the third gets the opportunity to have just about anything he or she wants. And the statistics about outcomes and class mobility seem to bear this out. The only way to win a rigged game is to change the game.

    --
    That is all.