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Switching From Sitting To Standing At Your Desk
Hugh Pickens DOT Com (2995471) writes "Chris Bowlby reports at BBC that medical research has been building up for a while now, suggesting constant sitting is harming our health — potentially causing cardiovascular problems or vulnerability to diabetes. Advocates of sit-stand desks say more standing would benefit not only health, but also workers' energy and creativity. Some big organizations and companies are beginning to look seriously at reducing 'prolonged sitting' among office workers. 'It's becoming more well known that long periods of sedentary behavior has an adverse effect on health,' says GE engineer Jonathan McGregor, 'so we're looking at bringing in standing desks.' The whole concept of sitting as the norm in workplaces is a recent innovation, points out Jeremy Myerson, professor of design at the Royal College of Art. 'If you look at the late 19th Century,' he says, Victorian clerks could stand at their desks and 'moved around a lot more'. 'It's possible to look back at the industrial office of the past 100 years or so as some kind of weird aberration in a 1,000-year continuum of work where we've always moved around.' What changed things in the 20th Century was 'Taylorism' — time and motion studies applied to office work. 'It's much easier to supervise and control people when they're sitting down,' says Myerson. What might finally change things is if the evidence becomes overwhelming, the health costs rise, and stopping employees from sitting too much becomes part of an employer's legal duty of care. 'If what we are creating are environments where people are not going to be terribly healthy and are suffering from diseases like cardiovascular disease and diabetes,' says Prof Alexi Marmot, a specialist on workplace design, 'it's highly unlikely the organization benefits in any way.'"
Not with my knees.
...when the main problem isn't really sitting down, but being STILL in the same position hour after hour.
Doing some full stride walking every day is the bees-nees!
Standing isn't going to give you anything more than sore feet.
Seriously, I'm a programmer at least in part because I want to be as comfortable as possible during work. It's not a huge reason but it's a reason non the less. If I in any way liked the idea of physical discomfort during work I would have gone to do construction or something else instead of programming (the pressure and responsibility as a programmer/designer in a small or medium sized company is insane, you really need to like this job to do it).
And, it doesn't matter if you are moving much at all.
Sitting in almost all but perfectly designed, custom fit chairs has all kinds of direct physical effect on your body including circulatory and respiratory changes.
Here are only a very few of my sources:
Circulation in general: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094039,
Blood pressure: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/70/4/533.full.pdf
Back problems: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9383867
The whole hierarchy of office chairs has always baffled me. You have three general classifications of chairs (and they're usually labelled as such at the store): Executive, Manager, and Secretary. The Secretary chair always sucks. It's the cheapest model, doesn't usually have arms, has thin or no padding, and it's flimsy. The Manager chair is the most comfortable. It's ergonomic, has adjustable armrests, lumber support, etc. The Executive chair, which should be the most luxurious, is almost always the most uncomfortable but it's always covered in slippery leather. Other than that, it's straight-backed, never high enough for the desk, and heavy.
It makes no sense that the degree of comfortableness that you are allowed to have is actually a class system in a modern office. I get that a business owner wants to control costs and expensive chairs are expensive. But wouldn't you want your employees to be as comfortable and healthy as your budget will allow? Why is a secretary less deserving of arm rests or lumber support than a manager?
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
>> Advocates of sit-stand desks
Sorry, I read that as "vendors of sit-stand desks"
Seriously, does anyone still work at a tech job crappy enough where they care if you sit, stand or bounce around on a pregnancy ball all day?
Indeed. On the rare occasion I have to man a register at work, within an hour, my back is spasming, and my legs are stocking up and getting stiff. I can work all day out on the floor stocking, lifting heavy cases, kneeling, getting up, up and down ladders with no problem, but standing in one place for an hour is brutal. I suppose if I had to do it more my body would adapt to standing still eventually, but it would be a miserable transition.
I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
This should be extrapolated to the classroom. In particular, to boys in elementary and middle school.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
Give me omnipotence and I'd be happy to take care of that for you.
I don't know about you. I can walk at any speed all day long, and it feels great, but standing still gets uncomfortable quickly, and my back starts giving me problems after just a few days of that. I still have minor foot issues left over from working in a retail department store for just a couple of years, 30 years ago. So no. No standing desks for me under any circumstances. You're welcome to one. I'm going to be up walking around every 30 minutes and frequently pacing around the cube farm to think, but I'm going to sit while I'm not walking. And I expect a decent chair to go along with a decent monitor. What we all really need is a half hour of walking every 2 hours. The productivity of the sitting time would increase at least enough to offset the time walking.
Yeah, standing at the register all day was rough on my body at 16... I can't imagine how my [ahem] slightly older frame would deal with it. Back then I was a "stock boy" and was much more comfortable doing the manual labor than the standing-in-one-place routine of register duty.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
And the links to your peer-reviewed studies are... where?
Yep. Tilt the back and the seat backwards, shift much of that weight resting on thighs to back. Straighten legs out and rest feet on something tilted towards you.
You must also grow a mustache, otherwise it only changes your sitting-down-still problems to standing-up-still problems.
I switched to a standing desk last tuesday, and found my company supported the idea as part of our wellness initiative (I got free fruit for deciding to do it.) The first two days were kinda rough, but afterwards it just becomes a normal part of your day. What i was surprised to find was im way more refreshed at the end of the day, and find it a lot easier to communicate with people who are at my cube than if im sitting.
A few other coworkers do a 'part time' standing desk by elevating their normal work surface using cardboard boxes from the datacenter. im also told a stress relief mat helps make the transition a lot better. Either way, I dont see myself going back to a sitting desk anytime soon.
Good people go to bed earlier.
It's a bit narrow-minded to compare any work being performed today to work that was performed 100 years ago. There were almost no knowledge workers then. Factory work was the norm. We have advanced to using our brains more which requires concentration and less movement distracting us. By all means, get up and move around more, but I think looking to the past is faulty.
...when the main problem isn't really sitting down, but being STILL in the same position hour after hour.
This is why it's not a "standing desk" but a "sit-stand desk". The idea is that you alternate between sitting and standing, changing position every hour or two.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
If our bodies are intelligently designed, it would be by Microsoft.
I switched to a standing desk about 12 months ago. I'm a pretty fit and active guy, but I have a variety of knee and back problems from years of martial arts training. Particularly, I have patellofemoral arthritis ("theatre knee") that gets worse when I keep my knee bent at 90 degrees or less. On a friend's advice, I built a standing desk and gave it a whirl.
The first two to three months sucked a lot. I could only stand for 1-2 hours at a time before my knees or feet were too sore to continue. I had to adjust the ergonomics of my workspace, particularly the height of my monitor, to avoid neck irritation. However, my lower back felt great for the first time in years. I kept going.
Somewhere around the 90 day mark, all my aches and pains vanished. My feet stopped getting sore. My knees no longer hurt. My back feels better than it did when I was 20. My hip flexors are more mobile. I can now on my feet all day with no problem. Standing around at parties doesn't make my feet or back sore. I also lost 5 lbs with no effort because of the increase caloric expenditure.
I'd recommend a standing desk to anyone with the willpower to make it through the transition. It's well worth it, in my opinion.
No, it's not okay because if they make me, if they, if they make me, me stand then I...I'll...I'll have to, I'll set the building on fire...
Worst. Signature. Ever.
Even completely small things are unhealthy for the human body. The human body is absolute garbage, and it's yet more proof that "intelligent design" never happened.
I don't believe in intelligent design either, but you are reaching waaaay too far up your rear when building criticism against ID. Saying the human body is absolute garbage is as dumb as saying God created the world in 7 days.
A person can buy a Maserati, but i said person doesn't change the oil and let water and particulate go into the gas tank, the car will turn into garbage. The car wasn't garbage. The owner was a careless fool at best (and a f*tard at worst.)
Human bodies are actually quite resilient, tuned by evolution to be cursorial predators. Capable of keep going under cold or heat in ways most animals would die. And that was already a fact before we eve invented clothing. Put the mind next to the body (which is what makes us human) then we have clothing, and a whole new set of capabilities emerge. There are plenty of historical footnotes of soldiers going on long after their horses, donkeys and oxen died of exposure.
We can survive bacteria, viruses and parasites and wounds. We die of infections beyond a certain magnitude, similarly to most other Eukaryote organisms. If our bodies are garbage, so are the bodies of all Eukaryote organisms. I guess the only Eukaryote whose body is not garbage is Superman, but he is an illegal alien from Krypton so he doesn't matter.
I think you're over thinking this. Executive, Manager, and Secretary are just the names for styles of chairs, not some kind of hierarchy or (current) intended use.
Secretary chairs, I believe, are not named for the person currently known as an administrative assistant, but for the piece of furniture called a secretary. A secretary is a tall cabinet, the lower part is drawers, the upper part has glassed doors to display knick-knacks, china, whatever, and in between is a fold-down panel that makes a desk. This piece of furniture would be prominent in a house. When a person wanted to write a letter, etc, they would drag a small, lightweight stool to the secretary and fold down the desk.
In the days when most people worked in factories, the only person with a desk was the manager. Hence, a 'manager' chair is basically any desk chair.
The executive chair is mostly to show that the person sitting in it is important, hence the leather.
Some progressive offices have desks that can be raised or lowered with a little motor, so you can sit and then stand when you feel like it.
Typically the guys in the office would sit all morning and stand for part of the afternoon.
As someone who has been standing at a desk for the last 2+ years (programming), I can attest that a really good foam floor mat helps a lot. They make some specifically for standing desks that are quite comfortable. Standing on it in your socks actually feels pretty good. It does take a couple weeks to get used to standing most of the day.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
...and I've been doing it for over two years now. I used to experience back pain when I sat all day, but that went away after a month or so. I used to get sleepy after lunch when I sat all day... not so much anymore. You really do get used to it. A few suggestions for those who want to try it:
1) Make the switch the first day you get back from a longer holiday and are already out of your normal routine.
2) You *must* get a nice floor mat, preferably a dense memory foam mat designed for standing cubes. Working in your socks (if your employer will let you) while standing on said mat almost feels like a foot massage.
3) Another *must* - don't get a desk-height chair! At least, not for a while. You'll find yourself sitting way too often and never get adjusted to standing all day. Most of my fellow "standing" co-workers that have tall chairs sit at least 80% of the time.
4) It takes a couple weeks to get used to standing. Stick with it.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
I recall continual sore feet all summer from my walmart job at around 19 years old, I can't imagine what this would do to me now.
"Capable of keep going under cold or heat in ways most animals would die"
Can't let you get away with that. My dog can go out when its below freezing quite happily. I need 2 layers of clothing plus a coat.
As for heat, yes , we're slightly better adapted due to being able to sweat but that comes with a price - huge water consumption. Not very useful in a desert. Mr Camel solved the problem far better.
"We can survive bacteria, viruses and parasites and wounds"
So can most animals otherwise the most complex life would still be a sponge. And to use my dog as an example again - he can happily drink water from streams and puddles that would put me on the toilet for 2 days.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in ID anymore than anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size, but as far as comparisons to other animals goes, the human body in the raw is pretty feeble. Even compared to our nearest cousin chimpanzees we're pretty hopeless physically - our muscles and bones are much weaker and they can survive falls from heights that would easily kill a human.
thats easy, make food and air pipes separate so we can't choke to death, improve eyesight/hearing capabilities, make teeth replace themselves just for starters
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Yep. The problem is the "work day" not the desks. It doesn't matter if you spend those hours sitting, standing, or switching between sitting and standing because you're going to be sitting or standing at the same desk, in a similar position (or in two positions) all day every day. .
I think we need to let go of the idea that jobs must be done from 9 - 5. Let people telecommute and get their work done whenever is best for them. A person can go biking, then sit in a park and do work one day; take a walk to starbucks and work from there the next; then spend the day playing with their kids and do their work at night, sitting in their bed. I don't understand why, despite the fact that technology makes this possible (and the fact that most hourly jobs can now be replaced with computers and/or machines, or are outsourced) we switched to treating salaried jobs the same as hourly jobs, where you get paid because you are there at your designated time rather than because you get your work done.
I'm 42 and I have been using a balance ball at my desk for 5 years. Love it; by its nature you are always doing small movements, posture is better, and my back problems have pretty much gone away. The pièce de résistance is that I can bounce on it to stay awake during boring conference calls.
The only times I have problems with it is when I am doing high-intensity focused work on the computer and start to lean and cheat support by leaning over desk and resting more of my arms on the desk.
you going to do some sewing as well?
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Yeap. I worked a summer on a sorting line in a recycling facility. Standing still on hard flooring is brutal. Even adding rubber mats didn't help a ton, and good shoes weren't really an option since we needed steel toed boots.
The thing that helped the most? Dancing. We put on music and danced while we sorted and it was light years better than just standing still.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
Had a job that had conference rooms set up with hammocks in some rooms and couches in others so you could work from different posiitions. Seems healthier than just the focus on sitting or standing.
I've been working from a standing position for 2 years and I have no intention of ever going back. It's never to late to start, (I'm soon to be 52) I first found an existing spot that I could place my computer and try it out... I was fortunate to both work from home and have a 42" countertop off the kitchen that was the perfect height. After working for several weeks at my kitchen counter, I went out and purchased some simple track shelving from the home depot. It cost maybe $150 to set up shelves for my keyboard/mouse, laptop, 24" monitor, and IP Phone. I've never felt better, and don't miss sitting on my ass all day long.
Because most telecommuters are do-nothings, which is why they are just as "effective" at home as they are at work?
I'm only being slightly facetious here. In my experience, home is almost never a place conducive to doing good work, way too many distractions and way too disassociated from the normal work environment and its easy access to communication with co-workers.
I say this having been a telecommuter myself for a time (not by choice, but by circumstance) and finding it demoralizingly difficult to be effective, and seeing the same thing in just about every person I've ever worked with who was a telecommuter.
Sure I've worked with people who still managed to get good work done from home; but in every case, those were the superstars who actually got *more* good work done at work. Working at home took away some of their productivity as it does for everyone else I've known, but they were so good to begin with that it just knocked them down to better-than-average instead of superstar status.
Well that's my opinion anyway.
The guy behind me bought his own sit-stand desk a couple of weeks ago. There wasn't any company program, he just decided that his back was worth the $500 to him. He stood almost half the day for the first couple of days, now he sits the whole day again. I told him that if he felt better after a couple of weeks I'd buy one too, but of course, sitting down is exactly the same as sitting down!
Is 1563649 a prime number?
I am sitting in a $890 chair right now. any good company will do it. I'm thinking you haven't priced real office furniture as the standard desk I am at is $2300 and it's a no frills Steelcase.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
While we're at it, let's put just a bit more distance between the defecating and fornicating areas.
No, some parallel programming :)
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
Humans can perform acrobatics that any animal on earth would envy.
X is better than Y does not mean that X is good. The human body has a number of flaws and even seemingly innocuous foods are unhealthy to eat. You can't exactly expect a mindless process to produce 'perfect' results, so it goes without saying that the human body could be improved drastically. All the bad qualities make the human body seem horrendously weak, which isn't the same as saying that other animals are better.
Too bad you haven't picked up on any of those traits.
You need to get out of the "X being better than Y means that X is good!" phase. If that was not how you intended it, then phrase your arguments differently. Either that, or realize that some good qualities don't cancel out the negatives.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
I'll settle for root access to the universe and a few minutes alone with a terminal.
I agree to some extent about the 9 - 5 thing being in many ways bad.
I do exactly what you describe a few days a week.
The problem is that this makes it very hard to properly communicate with other people in your job setting. Nobody knows reliably when other people will be available, whether its for a meeting, or just to get some little bit of information. It works great if you are on a self directed task that lasts for the whole "day" and nobody needs you for anything. It sucks if you need 3 or 4 people to meet to discuss something.
I've also found that, with creator type people, they almost universally prefer larger blocks of contiguous work time in order to be efficient. So interrupting those work hours with other things reduces efficiency.
Clearly, sitting for 8 hours is not healthy. Personally, I could not possibly stand for 8 hours without my feet hurting horribly. Even 4 hours would kill me.
The ideal physical work envirionment would probably consist of a mix of walking, running, standing, squating, etc. IE, just like a human would have experienced while procuring food, defecating, mating, etc all day, in pre-civilization times (insert "evolutionary time" or "garden of eden" depending on your belief).
Thats hard to do for many lines of work these days (computer programmer, writer, artist, etc).
-- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
Only if you cherry pick data.
"Humans can perform acrobatics that any animal on earth would envy."
name 1.
"They can balance with the best of them. "
haha, no not even close.
" They have learned to ride the thermals as well as a vulture. "
nope. we learned to build machines to do that, and we developed science to figure it out.
"They have learned to think far beyond anything the animal kingdom can muster."
The animal kingdom can create thing that can think. Specifically, us.
And you ignore the issue with the skeletal system, hips and lower back.
The only thing we can do batter at is think; which is really really amazingly significant and not to be down played. Every physical attribute doesn't hold a candle to animals as a whole.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The Executive chair, which should be the most luxurious, is almost always the most uncomfortable but it's always covered in slippery leather.
Clearly, the Executive chair is just for show, since he'll be out at the golf course all day anyway.
http://www.npr.org/2011/04/25/...
Its a talk with an expert, and if you want actual studies, you can go to pubmed or jama.
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You should probably make an attempt to understand how science works.
HInt: it's not 'It seems obvious so don't bother to test it'
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The more you know.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Nobody is stopping you from describing your perfect universe in fiction, right? You want omnipotence, buy pen and paper :P
And actually, depending on how one reads the book of genesis, mortality and decay were a conscious design choice, and this is the shareware version of the universe, if you will, temporary testing grounds. Fiction or not, within the fiction, it kind of makes sense.
http://www.npr.org/2011/04/25/...
http://www.vichealth.vic.gov.a...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
Need more? I suggest :
http://goo.gl/CNwr5t
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