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Oracle Deflects Blame For Troubled Oregon Health Care Site
itwbennett (1594911) writes "Oracle is gearing up for a fight with officials in Oregon over its role developing an expensive health insurance exchange website that still isn't fully operational. In a letter obtained by the Oregonian newspaper this week, Oracle co-president Safra Catz said that Oregon officials have provided the public with a 'false narrative' concerning who is to blame for Cover Oregon's woes. In the letter, Catz pointed out that Oregon's decision to act as their own systems integrator on the project, using Oracle consultants on a time-and-materials basis, was 'criticized frequently by many'. And as far as Oracle is concerned, 'Cover Oregon lacked the skills, knowledge or ability to be successful as the systems integrator on an undertaking of this scope and complexity,' she added."
Oracle doing its usual crapware!
PS:I'm a sysadmin of Oracle applications and they REALLY is shit!
It's that people think they can drop Oracle on top of a crappy design and that will somehow magically fix it. By the time people get done trying to use brute force, ignorance and massive amounts of IT resources, you may as well have Dbase III on your back end. Oracle might let you get away with a shitty design if your application didn't really need a database, but it's not going to help you that much if what you're trying to do is complicated enough to need one.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Never bring politics... to an electronic documentation of timeline fight with a database company.
I thought all of Oracles engagements and agreements contractually banned you from saying anything bad about them, doing any benchmarks, describing the scope of the agreement, or how well it performed.
Take a look at CUNYFirst. Oracle should be tried for treason for setting that up for the CUNY system. It's estimated to be costing tens of millions of dollars in lost productivity.. And counting.
fuck beta
and then fuck oracle
Catz pointed out that Oregon's decision to act as their own systems integrator on the project, using Oracle consultants on a time-and-materials basis, was 'criticized frequently by many'...
Sooooo, Oracle probably bid on the SI gig and OR didn't bite probably because of sticker shock. Of course they are going to "point out" issues with SI tasks. Is anyone surprised by this???
MA uses a system built on ADF and it pretty much blows from a user interface point of view. One input error or unexpected value and it is forever caught in a loop flashing some obscure error message
Nothing gets so screwed up as when they leave everything to consultants.... except for when they don't, and I say that working in the public sector. Particularly one project manager I know always delivers a good presentation, a wordy report and a "bits of string and duct tape" demo to show how it would look like if it actually worked. He basically spent the last year on a project to show we can do delta updates using unique keys, the whole "implementation" was essentially one SQL MERGE statement but they pissed off hundreds of internal and consulting hours on irrelevant crap. Which of course failed to address any of the hard issues involved, but the proof of concept was declared a success. Then he dumps the entire unsolved mess over on more technical people to work out the implementation. Or really everything, then blames us for not making it come true.
So, we're seeing the fingers of the horn-hairs pointing at each other for a failure that their brown-nosed underlings caused on both sides. Don't blame the geeks, blame the suits.
We were forced to sign this contract. On gun point actually. And then they said that we should take their money or they'll break our knee caps.
You see, we are the victims here.
Larry
"...'Cover Oregon lacked the skills, knowledge or ability to be successful as the systems integrator on an undertaking of this scope and complexity,'
Gee, that's funny. And here I thought I was in the majority in thinking that it is in fact Oracle who lacks the skills, knowledge, or ability to fix that piece-of-shit Frankenstein they want to label a working product.
I suppose if you thought you were buying a perpetual bug and patch service, sure. They're fucking awesome at that. I might even be so bold as to say #1 in the industry.
I work with Oracle software. It has its issues, and the company is certainly focused on, if not obsessed with, revenues. But if the project was on a T&M basis then the fault lies entirely with Oregon. From earlier stories it sounded like Oracle was the integrator who ran way over budget, so the charge of a false narrative seems to be valid.
The Veterans Affairs has been using an EMR for Decades. If Obama was serious about getting us all on the same page, he would make everyone use the EMR system of the VA.. yes it would suk big time. But we would all be in the same suck together. AND IT WOULD SAVE A LOT OF TAXES because that's what is paying for all this EMR bs anyway.
Of course, the irony is that the final solution would be provided by the military...
All of them.
In the case of all of them failing you have to look at the common denominator because ALL of them failed.
Newsflash... Oracle was not involved in all of the exchanges.
The central problem was that the rollout was rushed for political reasons.
If it were slowed down then the republicans might have had more success killing it before implementation. Even now it might well die. So the democrats rushed the rollout.
And this is the result.
That is not Oracle's fault. We all have experience with projects that are rushed through planning to the point where they are unworkable.
That's all this is... nothing more or less.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
It's the customers' fault. EVERYBODY in the IT business already knows that Oracle invariably gives you:
- Bizarely high price
- Incomplete project result
- Project delays
- Low quality
- Extreme vendor lock in
E.v.e.r.y s.i.n.g.l.e p.r.o.j.e.c.t they do.
I'm not sure whther to cry or laugh at this. Just don't go with Oracle, every sane IT professional knows that.
A company as experienced as Oracle cannot flop at this scale. They should know how to either a) get a good result or b) turn down the contract. Failure is not an option when talking tens of millions of tax-payer money. If there were problems, they should have seen them coming. If there were things they needed in order to be successful, they should have included guaranteed access to those things in the service contract. This is totally unacceptable.
Oracle should accept some losses and quietly make an amiable-as-possible exit. Why air dirty laundry about clients? Even if the State is partly to blame, being a loud asshole makes you less likely to get future gov't contracts.
Table-ized A.I.
Ah yes, much lke the current healthcare law. Sign up or else.
Here is a nice glossy document from Oracle about the project: http://www.oracle.com/us/solut...
It looks like Oregon went with pure Oracle solutions rather than say Oracle RDBMS with Websphere.
Below is a list of the Oracle solutions used. Where I work we do our own integration (even though alot of Accenture talent is involved) and this would be a tricky task for our IT department. Maybe we aren't the fastest, but it seems it would take about 3 years to get something like this going. (It is a $200 million implementation, pretty good size).
An IT dept better have alot of experience to roll all this themselves. My company can do it but we have hundreds of talented people available. The only time we consult Oracle is when buggy behavior is found.
Siebel Customer Relationship
Management applications, Oracleâ(TM)s
policy automation solution for public
sector, Oracle Hyperion Planning,
Oracle Business Intelligence
Enterprise Edition, Oracle Identity
Management, Oracle WebCenter
Portal, Oracle SOA Suite, Oracle
Master Data Management, Oracle
Enterprise Architecture Framework,
Oracle Architecture Development
Process, Oracle enterprise
architecture solutions
Why blame Oracle when the people that rule that state didn't want it to work. Republicans are still made that Obama finally forced ERs to provide life saving treatment and deliver babies. There are no more poor women giving birth in back alleys like we had under Bush.
The project was a huge success. It separated Oregon from their money, right?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
It is the implementation architecture, planning and execution that is responsible. It is silly to blame the tool or the vendor. It is like blaming the oven when a cake does not come out right.
It does sound as though the primary blame has to be put at the Oregon's officials since Oregon was the lead on the project. The lead is always 100% responsible for the project, after the project failed they are trying to say "ohh, not my fault"... If the project was off the rails early on, they should have seen it -- regardless of communications and adjusted (and if Oracle was not doing it's job - fired them). Obviously Oregon wants to have a scapegoat, but apparently forgot to pay them for that service.
I tried installing the latest Oracle on a Fedora machine and it was such a broken mess I had to back off to 11g. Since the "good old days" of Oracle 6 and 7, I do not think I've ever gotten a clean install of Oracle without some kind of crash. Usually, I can get it up enough to bring up a database. For some reason, 11g is stable on Linux, and other than the usual install errors (mysterious make failures, database creation errors, and so on) it mostly works. Although I'm probably getting left behind with my development skills by using this version, unless everyone else has frozen on 11g too.
So this Oregon thing had "fail" written on it from day one.
I am working as a consultant.
My good advice to every customer is: dont buy consultant work as time and material. Buying as time and material puts the wrong incentives to everybody:
-Your own people will feel that they still can just use them as normal workers and keep all decisions (and thus responsibility) to themself
-The consultants dont care, since just doing what your own people tell them without thinking is what gets their monthly timesheets signed. If something goes wrong they can even sell more hours, not less
-The consulting company does not care (and rigthly so since that was not what you asked for) and will send you inexperiences junior consultants wherever possible.
-Coding quality has to be reviewd by your own people (or just accepted as it is)
-Your own people are usually vastly inferior at project management in comparison to the average senior consultant - in a non T&M contract the usual situation is that you get the things done in time or you will loose money.
APK, we're in the midst of a discussion based on facts and logic.
How could this involve you in any way, size, shape, or form?
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Let's summarize: Oracle took money to perform a job. They disagreed with the way it was handled. Nevertheless they stayed in and kept collecting money. Now they say they had noting to do with it?
I have been working on a large data project for another state - this state has outsourced everything to 3 or 4 large companies. That itself is not so bad, but the state doesn't have anyone left to make decisions. Instead it is all left up to the vendors. It is difficult for vendors, even when trying to do the right thing, to know what the business (state) needs or wants for some things.
Trying to implement proper security controls and create separation of duties when everything is outsourced is hard to do. Especially when all vendors bid their part without expectations of having to handle new requirements.
I am sure Oracle shares some of the blame, but I bet the state is responsible for a lot too.
I live here, Oregon politicians like to spend money that's not theirs. We see this over and over from the local city government to the State level. Enough said.
Speaking of Jeremy Reimer... I just posted this tidbit in another thread, but that one's getting kind of deep, so I'll re-post the best part of it right here lest it be buried by and thus go unnoticed in your crapflood over there:
Since you keep going on and on about about WindowsITPro.com... Let's see what you did there...
[snip]
But I've saved the best for last. Brace yourselves for this one, which features--guess who?--none other than Jeremy Reimer saying, and I quote,
So, APK, how's that lawsuit going that you pretend to have against me? Any luck getting Shaw to cut off my internet access? How does it feel to be the laughingstock of the entire Internet?
Looks like another APK mystery has been solved.
Having fun yet, Sparky? I sure as hell am. :D
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
... that the quality assurance contractor for the project, Maximus, had this to say, "Oracle's performance is clearly lacking. Their inability to adhere to industry standards and professional software and project management tenets warrants further review."
I've worked on several fiascoes that the State of Oregon has tried to build over the last 30 years and they always end up as fiascoes. Motor vehicles, child support system, a consolidated database of Oregon state welfare recipients. They all failed for one reason. Oregon State workers are a bunch of lazy, incompetent, featherbedding incompetents.
They take off on sick leave for days at a a time without even notifying their bosses. Are promoted based on minority or gender status instead of competence, sit at their desks all day doing nothing but go to meetings coffee breaks and lunch, and have such a strong union that they can't be fired no matter how bad they are.
I don't bother working for them any more as every big project turns to shit because the workers don't care. They are FAR, FAR worse than federal workers who at least know how to effectively hand off the real work to competent contractors. Oregon State employees can't even manage that trick.
that the software was not capable of being understood, or the documentation was skanty and faulty, that the Oracle consultants were dunderheads and got in the way, on and on.
nice opportunity for a court of law and special masters to sort out. make it happen. King Ellison I is not always right.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Why Oregon went with a company like Oracle that has no experience with creating a health care exchange is baffling. I was working last year for a Portland-based company that has been making private health care exchanges for over a decade. Not only would it have been smarter to go with a company that actually has the experience, but the cost would have been significantly less, a few million dollars rather than the 300 million catastrophe that Oregon ended up with. But our corrupt governor Kitzhaber decided on a no-bid contract with his friends rather than doing the right thing with our tax dollars.
I lost my job at the end of the year due to Obamacare related reasons. And Oregon demanded several hundred dollars in taxes more on tax day this week. Its like being kicked when I was down.
We use Oracle, PostgreSQL, MySQL, and even SQLite at my company. Obviously, each database performs a different function. We're a small company and from my experience if you use Oracle for anything, no matter how modest, you really need one full-time engineer just to work on Oracle. Oracle is not only expensive to purchase, but it's expensive to keep running. Oracle's esoteric nature means that it's a majorly inefficient time sink for your developers to mess with. To avoid that you have to hire an expensive expert whose job is just to work on Oracle. If you don't do that you're going to have problems all the time.
As stated, if you have two or three developers you really need one full-time guy to take care of Oracle. The other databases are easy to manage, use standard SQL, don't crash, don't easily run the system out of resources (I/O, disk space, or memory), and don't seg fault for no apparent reason. Doing backups with PostgreSQL and MySQL are easy; with Oracle everything is odd and nonstandard. In 2014, sqlplus, Oracle's own command line, doesn't support cursor keys. Of course there are special tools to do these things. So you hire a full-time Oracle guy who knows about these things.
It all seems like a rip off to me. Just go with PostgreSQL for what you would have chosen Oracle for.
All of these claims have been answered elsewhere and SHOWN TO BE FALSE.
Reposting them DOES NOT MAKE THEM TRUE--THEY ARE STILL FALSE CLAIMS.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
apk when you have nothing new to say... maybe you shouldn't say anything?
The Oregonian reported that a core problem with the Cover Oregon deployment is the Oracle Siebel CRM product used as the foundation of the project. Oracle sent them a version configured for private sector companies rather than public agencies.
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2014/02/oregon_health_exchange_may_go.html
You keep repeating the same lies as if re-posting them will magickally make them turn true.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
...but don't dismiss Oracle's arguments without examination. It may be that Oracle is trying to shift the blame, or their part of it. But, that is also the default position for governmental organizations when shit hits the fan. Is it a coincidence that almost all of the exchanges that failed or are in deep trouble chose government as the SI? Regardless how you view government, it must be conceded that there are few incentives for efficiency or success. Sadly, this also extends to contracts let by said organizations.
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
-- Pablo Picasso
...these kind of project scr*w-ups, with lots of consultants, there's plenty of blame to go around. I don't know much about Oregon's situation, so these are just my general observations:
1). The contracting company often has naïve and weak leadership. They think that by writing cheques and holding meetings, that will produce a good outcome. They need serious and engaged Project Management leadership. PMs who ask a lot of questions, don't accept being "blown off" by people, and constantly ask "when I say X, this is what I mean. Do you have the same understanding?"
2). The contractors. Oh boy. Parachuting in the newbies after winning the contract based upon the presence of the senior consultants. Consultants who view their role as clock punchers and not people with a project mission. Consultants who are simply unqualified. Consultants who never get feedback on their work (they don't hang around long enough) so they think they are gods, when in fact they produce lame work product. Lots of sins here;
3). Little or no knowledge transfer;
4). Timelines that are based upon someone's desired outcome. Without linking that to the amount of work to be done and the resources available to accomplish it. The result is that the timeline is just a fantasy;
5). The detailed progress tracking mechanisms. Ones functional enough that you can find out when the project is drifting or behind schedule. And do so early enough to do something about it.
6). Synchronization mechanisms. Large project teams need synchronization mechanisms that keep everyone informed and on the same page. Ideally, you want to know the details of where you are in relation to your workload. You also want to know where the overall project is in relation to it's goals;
7). Functional escalation mechanisms. You want processes that allow concerns to come out before they become 5-alarm fires. Most big problems can be intercepted and fixed while they are still little problems. If you don't do that then your project is heading for trouble.
I'm sorry, why would a company turn down business? Idiot.
I used to be a consultant for a big well known company. They hired me as a consultant, then asked me to set up an oracle database. I asked for training or help, and the answer was "no". They wanted to see if a software engineer could just wing it and get an application and oracle db working. It was a hideous nightmare of reading difficult documentation and trial and error, resulting in pulled hair and copious sweat. I can only assume this was a little easier with their contractors around, but not much.
"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said MY program's a spyware?
Ok: CONTRARY PROOF from a REPUTABLE security community source http://slashdot.org/comments.p... who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!
Now: Is YOUR SOURCE Computer Associates REPUTABLE? See here http://www.bing.com/search?q=c...
---
"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You say my program's crapware?
Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...
---
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.
You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.
APK
P.S.=> You FAIL, sockpuppeteer troll - especially in VAINLY & EFFETELY *trying* to downmod this to "hide it" using your sockpuppets to do so (and to mod yoursel fup too no doubt) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ...
... apk
"Your hosts file app is SPYWARE, dude." - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 09, 2014 @02:43AM (#46702387) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You said MY program's a spyware?
Ok: CONTRARY PROOF from a REPUTABLE security community source http://slashdot.org/comments.p... who hosts my app (malwarebytes hpHosts) which you are FREE TO VERIFY by email if you like as MY proof!
Now: Is YOUR SOURCE Computer Associates REPUTABLE? See here http://www.bing.com/search?q=c...
---
"for a crapware host files app that nobody in his right mind wants to allow anywhere close to his system" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:24PM (#46769393) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You say my program's crapware?
Disprove 17 points here showing hosts give uses more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity then since YOu say my program's "crapware" http://start64.com/index.php?o...
---
"You barge into discussions with your off-topic hosts file nonsense" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 11, 2014 @09:51PM (#46731153) FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
Show us a post where I put up material on hosts where it doesn't apply.
You can't, can you? Nope - That makes YOU a liar.
APK
P.S.=> You FAIL, sockpuppeteer troll - using downmods to VAINLY & EFFETELY *try* to "hide this" exposing you too? http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
LOL, please...
... apk
APK must be put to death by Jay Little @ top http://www.bing.com/search?q=a... first result no less - note the jlittle1 in the path of that result.
Pretty solid proof of your buddy Jay Little from arseholetechnica there and his character + motivations for my having floored HIM publicly @ Windows IT Pro claiming he was an (literally) "AN EXPERT ON EXCHANGE" - lol, some 'expert' (wannabe) since when I produced Microsoft's OWN DOCUMENTATION for Exchange Server being unhalted by Memory Optimization Technology (sped up too) it shut BOTH Jay Little AND Dr. Mark Russinovich RIGHT THE FUCK DOWN... easily.
---
"IM NOT REMOVING THE CONTENT. I HAVE HOWEVER BEGUN HOSTING MY WEBSITE ELSEWHERE." - jaylittle - March 31, 2005 FROM http://windowsitpro.com/system...
&
"This battle with APK has taken it's toll I am afraid." - 4/2/2005 7:47:38 AM jaylittle @ www.jaylittle.com FROM http://windowsitpro.com/system...
NOW:
WHO was WITH Jay Little there?
You guessed it folks - JEREMY REIMER!
(Trolls of a feather, TROLLING TOGETHER & libeling, emial harassing, being booted from their hosting providers, + FAR more like libel (gee, just like YOU Zontar)).
SEE SUBJECT-LINE ABOVE: asshole - & only NOW are you "eating your words" on Jay Little, eh?
"Regarding Jay Little: I don't have all the facts" - by Zontar The Mindless (9002) on Friday April 18, 2014 @11:57AM (#46787987)
You do now - he was FORCIBLY REMOVED by his hosting provider CrystalTech.com...
---
Lastly:
Your SOCKPUPPET ADMINISTERED DOWNMODS can't hide this - I won't ALLOW it -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> See, I can DO that (& floor a PhD too) - you most certainly can't & you UTTERLY FAILED here too libeling me -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/com... which where YOUR WORDS ARE QUOTED, you no longer can fight on that & YOU ARE TRAPPED, libeler... apk
You keep running from apk & this http://slashdot.org/comments.p...