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Death Wish Meets GPS: iPhone Theft Victims Confronting Perps
theodp (442580) writes "Thankfully, no one's gone full-Charles-Bronson yet, but the NY Times reports that victims of smartphone theft are using GPS to take the law into their own hands, paying visits to thieves' homes and demanding the return of their stolen phones. "The emergence of this kind of do-it-yourself justice," writes Ian Lovett, "has stirred worries among law enforcement officials that people are putting themselves in danger, taking disproportionate risks for the sake of an easily replaced item." And while hitting "Find My iPhone" can take you to a thief's doorstep, LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith urges resisting the impulse to do so. "It's just a phone," he said. "it's not worth losing your life over. Let police officers take care of it. We have backup, guns, radio, jackets — all that stuff civilians don't have.""
Yes, police have all that stuff. On the other hand, they don't give a shit about your iphone being stolen, and will likely never investigate.
They forgot to list apathy.
"Even for Slashdot, that was a very obscure reference!" - Anonymous Coward
A friend of mine was recently mugged, on the doorstep of her home. While the police were in her house asking questions she pulled up the current location of her phone on her laptop. The police did not care. Did. Not. Care. For an hour her phone drifted around a park that was a known after-hours teenager hangout, while the officer asked inane questions. She fumed for weeks. Getting mugged was bad enough, but feeling like the police didn't really care, that all they wanted to do was get the report filled out, made her feel truly helpless.
If the police are unwilling to react to these thefts because they are low priority for them, they have to expect that citizens will have to take it into their own hands. People don't like someone else telling them their problems are trivial. People don't like feeling helpless. They need to believe that there is always something they can do.
-- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
From apathy on the side of the police, that is.
If the police at least tried to get my possessions back, would I bother going myself? Hell no. As the article said, why risk it? That's the police's job, they not only have the training and equipment, they also have the backing of the law.
Vigilantes only emerge when the police drops the ball. Only when there is no other way to get justice, people will take justice into their own hands. That's why a state has to be careful to keep its laws and its law enforcement in sync with what their population considers just. People will only take the law into their own hands if you, as a government, fail.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Donuts. Tell them the perps stole your donuts.
Have gnu, will travel.
We all know that the police generally don't put a high priority on retrieving lost smart phones. So, if someone ever absconds with my smart phone and I use the app that I have on it to track it down, I will simply call the local sheriff's office and tell them that I have located my phone, give them the address, and tell them that in 10 minutes I will be going in locked and loaded to retrieve it. That should give them sufficient time to prevent a more serious crime from taking place.
Let police officers take care of it. We have backup, guns, radio, jackets — all that stuff civilians don't have.
But obviously civilians have one thing the police officers don't - the WILL to take action.
If the police have been taking these thefts seriously and had sent officers to thief's home instead, then no one would be foolish enough to do it himself.
Yes, it is foolish to confront the thief at his home. What do you think would happen? "Ha ha, you got me, here's your phone."? More likely is the thief would know giving you the phone just proved he stolen your stuff, and now you know where to lead the police to him, thief would be thinking how is he going to silence you?
Maybe after the first few fools got killed, the police will finally take a visit to the locations of stolen phones?
Oliver.
Not that confronting the perpetrator is a great idea, but don't expect the full CSI treatment when you report the theft.
Actually, confronting the perp is the best way to get the full CSI treatment. If you're lucky, they might even pull up your dental records to conclusively ID your remains.
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
In the rest of the world a stolen smartphone will get bricked, but carriers are working against that in the US. I guess because stolen phones mean people will have to buy replacements and they'll get the kickbacks from Apple and Samsung for that. As long as stolen phones keep working in the US, they'll continue to be stolen.
They say let the cops handle it, yet the cops WON'T go arrest these guys even if you give them the same GPS info. This happens out of frustration from the uselessness of the police to act in these scenarios, not because they think it's the best course of action.
Dead on. The police could do their jobs and get the phone and even take a crook of the streets at the same time. Instead if a location of a stolen phone is reported they just brush it off and tell you that your $500+ item is "easily replaceable" and that you should forget about all of the personal stuff on it. They can't be bothered. I wonder why people respect police less and less every day. I'm surprised that they don't point out that while the police have guns and all that other stuff, and the bad guys likely have guns, in many states the victims don't have guns because the laws prevent it. And prevent you from even having bullet proof vests too!
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
you know I see a market here. Phone bounty hunters.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
While the smartphone itself may be trivial to replace, all the information on one may not be, and there is the whole deal of some apps that let you save your password...
Unless you were targeted for some specific espionage (you weren't), the phone thief doesn't care about the data on your phone. If they can unlock it, they might take a quick look through your pictures for naked pics of your wife, but they aren't going to use a compute cluster to try to brute force your passcode -- they are just going to wipe it and resell it.
If you have data on your phone that you can't replace, you were bound to lose it eventually anyway - phones die for lots of reasons unrelated to theft. Make regular backups (local or cloud based).
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
I am SO SICK of the police telling citizens they shouldn't conduct their business. Yes it can be unwise, but the constant drumbeat of 'leave it to the cops' pisses me off.
This is one case where it makes sense -- cops not only have physical protection (guns, etc), but they also have legal protection - if your phone tells you that your stolen phone is at 101 Main Street and you go to that address, bang on the door and start threatening the guy that answers to give up the phone before you kick his ass, you may find yourself in jail over the threats when it turns out that the phone was really in the basement apartment at 101A Main St (assuming, of course, that the guy you're demanding the phone from doesn't just kick *your* ass, and when he tells the cops that he felt threatened, he'll get the benefit of the doubt since you were at his house). The cops don't have to make any threats when they knock on the door -- the threat is implied.
And if you want to gripe about the cops not being willing to do anything about it, that's a man power issue.
Maybe they can catch real thieves instead of spending their time trying to stop people from doing U-turns on 25th street. Which hasn't caused an accident in a decade at least. It's just an easy way to collect money (since the no u-turn signs are partially obscured by trees).
Another thing: police defend their ability to 'stop and frisk' as a way to stop crime. NY is serious about stopping small crimes because it theoretically reduces big crimes. Well, here is something easy they can do.
If the police aren't going to catch criminals, there's not much reason to have them.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Unfortunately that sign on their car door "To serve and protect", they serve and protect the state. Getting back your iPhone does little to serve and protect the state.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
My sister's friend had her phone stolen recently and when she called the LAPD about it, they also refused to do anything about it and pretty much told her that it was not their policy to go chasing after stolen phones. She later attempted to confront the fence that stole her phone and ultimately was unsuccessful in recovering her phone.
Fuck Beta
And if you want to gripe about the cops not being willing to do anything about it, that's a manpower issue
Not when the cops are unwilling to follow up on easy leads while they are instead literally sitting in their cars all day long waiting for speeders because speeding tickets earn their department revenue (and catching muggers doesn't). There's plenty of manpower. The cops just don't want to risk their lives for "just a phone" because they know these are potentially violent criminals that are taking the phones. It's cowardice and avarice, not lack of manpower.
"and risk the life of an officer." That was the answer from the San Diego police department when my friend's sone lost his iPhone in a major hotel out of the dining room.
My friend is an attorney involved in major San Diego port affairs. Made no diff. "We don't go into that barrio without a SWAT team."
Police often wont take care of it...because as he said, it's just a phone.
Today it's a phone, tomorrow it's a laptop and by next week it's an armed robbery of an electronics store. I can understand that the police do not have the resources to track down every petty criminal but when confronted with clear evidence where the criminal is they have a duty to act. It is not only a fantastic public relations opportunity ("I went to the police and they caught the criminal one hour later") it also looks good for the crime statistics and it helps to reduce future crime since many phone thefts are probably opportunistic criminals who, if not caught, will carry on with their experiment to see how many phones/laptops/etc. they can steal before it crosses the police action threshold.
In the rest of the world a stolen smartphone will get bricked, but carriers are working against that in the US.
The USA has had a stolen phone blacklist for quite some time now. You can check if a phone is blacklisted here. Carriers will also ban a phone from their own network if the owner defaults on their service contract or handset finance agreement.
Phones are still stolen because:
1. Some phones can have their IMEI altered (illegal, but we're talking about criminals in the first place).
2. They can be sold overseas.
3. They can be sold to fools right here in the USA who don't know there's an IMEI blacklist and that they're buying a useless "brick".
4. They have value as parts.
5. Not everything criminal steals needs a logical reason. Some of these low-lives are so trashed on drugs they aren't thinking much beyond "take everything I can grab, sell, buy more drugs."
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Then why do they have guys with guns guarding banks and jewelry stores?
Then take care of it, you worthless fucks.
Except that the guy who "only stole an iPhone" probably did a lot more. When cops do investigat such things, they also tend to find further crime such as:
* troves of stolen goods
* stolen/duplicated credit cards
* drugs
* links to other criminals and/or organized crime
1) That applies to the guy who's door the victim is is banging on as well. And if you try to force yourself into his home - wouldn't he would have the right of self-defense (whether he stole the phone or not)?
2) I would think that if the police went to the home of someone who is innocent and arrested them, they would get in less trouble than if you and a couple of friends showed up at the door of some random guy you thought stole your phone, attacked him and subdued him, and then called the police to come and pick up the "criminal".
And while hitting "Find My iPhone" can take you to a thief's doorstep, LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith urges resisting the impulse to do so. "It's just a phone," he said.
Citizens urge police to do their fucking jobs so we don't have to do it ourselves.
Of course they can get a warrant. A cellphone broadcasting its position together with the owner's statement that it is their phone is enough to establish reasonable suspicion. You statement would be true if it were: They need a warrant to enter a home and they cannot be bothered to get one
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
If you really want to freak out, take a look at how much money municipalities pay for police pensions. It's not the administrators that are munching the budget, it's the retirees.
No, it really comes down to risk and reward. Not funding. Cops are widely believed (there are some naysayers) to get promotions and plumb assignments based on ticket revenue. Recovering stolen items involves getting a warrant - they can't just go to the house - and then risking being shot at or accused of racism. What's the up-side?
Better law enforcement would come from using the same tools those capitalists you revile used to get the riches you covet... merit rewards rather than union protection.
That is BS. We are talking about violent criminals who are holding evidence of their crime. Even if the phone wasn't worth investigating, muggings are. These phones are being stolen via muggings. At a minimum, holding people against their will while you take their phone. At worst, real beatings with a real chance of injury or death. Cops not investigating the stolen phones isn't an issue of cops ignoring petty theft. It is an issue of cops ignoring violent criminals who have been served up on a silver platter with evidence of their ciminal behavior in their possesion, and eye whitneses ready to testify.
it really comes down to funding. Cops have limited resources, especially after 30 years of budget cuts in the name of "Reduced Bureaucracy" and tax cuts for the rich.
I'm sorry, WHAT? You are full of shit.
Police departments are well funded, the question is: What do they spend that money on?
A new "MRAP"? Oh yeah, every cop shop needs one of those... And I've noticed many cops are now driving high-end "muscle cars" - because you know a $60K Dodge Charger with a "police package" is so much more effective in city response than the old Crown Vics or whatever the "off the shelf" cop car is these days.
Yeah, the police are hurting of cash...
Except maybe in Seattle where there are significant numbers of "average cops" making well into the 6-figures with overtime and other cash cows.
I'm not saying cops should not be well equipped and compensated according to skill and danger, though many studies show that being a police officer is not particularly dangerous - maybe because they rarely get out of their cars anymore - but get real: Since "9/11", US police departments have become bloated bastions of over-paid steroid freaks with power issues.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Remember when you voted down that 1% sales tax increase? Guess where that money was earmarked for?
Here's the magic of percentages. If they were getting by fine on x% before, and inflation goes up, then they STILL get x% which is what they got before already magically adjusted for inflation. You don't have to keep increasing the percentage year after year. If anything, the marginal increase in cost of doing business should allow us to DECREASE the percentage of sales tax we need to collect year after year in order to fund the governments operation.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Yeah, it's priorities, not funding.
A priority is shaking down law abiding citizens for money. A priority is terrorizing citizens in the middle of the night with an armed raid of a dozen officers to find a joint. A priority is terrorizing your children and shooting your dog on such a raid.
A priority is padding pay checks with overtime pay. A *big* priority is confiscating cameras from citizens recording what the cops do, and then arresting them on some bogus charge. A priority is protecting cops by abusing citizens, using wholly disproportionate and unnecessary force. A priority is putting the populace in their place whenever they seem a little uppity.
And of course ignore the wisdom of cutting police, fire fighters, and teachers first. Save the critical services like PR, for instance.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Cops cars have never been cheap. The suspension and chassis are stiffer, the wheels tend to be bigger (though steel, to reduce cost) to house larger brakes, the transmissions and differentials are often special. Various options exist for bullet-proof Kevlar armored doors. There are often extra, dedicated oil and transmission coolers. The batteries are huge, and there can be more than one of them, and the alternators are bigger. The seats are wider, not because cops are fat (remember, most other Americans are fat), but because they carry a ridiculous amount of hardware on their belts. These are all safety and durability improvements for the type of driving these cars are expected to be doing on a regular basis, with the vehicles themselves sometimes working 3 shifts per day.
And then there's a lot of work and expense that goes into modifying them for police duty even once they're delivered: By default, the interior is spartan, at best (what cup holder?). Communicaitons, lights, computer(s) need added, and added stoutly. Cages, locking shotgun holders need added. Push bars. Graphics and/or paint need changed to match the rest of the fleet Et cetera.
These are not luxury automobiles -- you can easily find a cheap Kia on the lot at Enterprise that is more pleasant, with more creature comforts than any average cop car for normal driving.
That said, there are three "off the shelf" cop cars since demise of the Crown Vic: Dodge Charger, and Ford Police Interceptor.
None of these are implicitly "muscle cars." They're all available with a normally-aspirated V6 that is identical (or at least very nearly so) to the same engines you'll find in the same civilian cars at the dealership, though more-powerful engines are certainly available.
So, what does such a purpose-built car cost? From this article, base prices (including, in these cases, upgraded engines) looks like the following:
2012 Chevrolet Caprice PPV, 6.0L/355-hp/384-lb-ft OHV 16-valve V-8: $31,745
2012 Dodge Charger Pursuit, 5.7L/370-hp/395-lb-ft OHV 16-valve V-8, $30,965
2013 Ford Police Interceptor Sedan, 3.5L/365-hp/350-lb-ft twin-turbo DOHC 24-valve V-6, $29,155
and for comparison with the venerable Crown Vic:
2008 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, 4.6L/239-hp/276-lb-ft SOHC 16-valve V-8, $28,470
I, for one, think my money is being better-spent on any of the three standard-issue cop car chassis, than it ever was on a Crown Vic. Price is roughly in-keeping with a last-gen, inflation-adjusted Crown Vic, and even though the new cars are actually a bit heavier, every single performance feature (including gas mileage) is improved.
This is not opulence, but simply progress.
Kid-proof tablet..
That would be the case if population and size of patrol areas wasn't increasing. Almost all cities are growing, increased population, increased density and increased size. Inflation only counts on increases in costs, not growth.
The reason cops are interested in theft is it's not as lucrative as drug crime. Most departments spend almost all their police time on drug crime because in the 80's the government relaxed seizure laws and allowed the local cops to keep any drug money and assets seized. Most police departments benefit directly from this and will spend almost all their time locating and seizing money and assets, even going as far as taking poor people's car's for buying a joint (a rather memorable cops episode).
Until we end the war on drugs and roll back all the seizure laws cops aren't going to be interested in petty crime. Before the war on drugs you could actually get the cops to investigate car theft and muggings, now they don't even care.
That "are" should be "are not". Changes the entire meaning.
Fascinating, but you are focusing on the wrong element and even there your vision is myopic.
The real issue is not choice of over-priced police cruisers - used mostly for hot-dogging to non-events. I can no longer count the times I've seen 3 or 4 cops weaving in and out of traffic at high speed to arrive at a situation involving a drunk street guy or a hooker.
A few years back, I was waiting for a MAX train in in Portland at around 0030 after work, and had wondered up to the second or third floor of a parking garage to look over the street and smoke a butt. I watched a Portland cop drive up onto the sidewalk just to be able to chuck a Burger King bag into a trash can.
I give the cop points for disposing of trash in a proper receptacle.
And these MRAPs - yes, every Cop Shop seems to need one. You know, you might need to lay siege to a crack house... God forbid cops do like they had done for years and just fucking BREAK DOWN THE DOOR.
Oh yes, Police Work is a tough job... Here's what Forbe's has to say about it, let's have a look:
1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers
Cops? Not on the list.
It's not hard to understand that when you never get out of your car, and when you do it's to write a $200 ticket, well, life is good.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Nice try, but I won't be trolled into a discussion of the merits and demerits of police behavior as that varies wildly between locales and jurisdictions and is an unresolvable debate, at best.
I simply submit that ~30k is not overpriced for a specially-designed service vehicle, especially in comparison to the singular previous option.
If you wish to debate that single insular point, then I'm up for it.
Kid-proof tablet..
That would be the case if population and size of patrol areas wasn't increasing. Almost all cities are growing, increased population, increased density and increased size. Inflation only counts on increases in costs, not growth.
Yeah, it should be cheaper to police such a situation. If density is increasing you are still policing the same area, there are just more people in it. The increased population bring greater sales tax and property tax revenues. Maybe cities in the middle of nowhere are increasing in size but most existing cities don't have anywhere to expand to, they are already surrounded by other cities.
Enigma
My backpack was stolen at Orlando airport while I was distracted. It contained my iPad, Macbook Air and a ton of other really good stuff. For various reasons I won't list here, we didn't discover it missing until we returned home. I used Find My iPhone and within ½ hour got a hit and the address when the thief turned on the iPad. Once I was sure he was not moving, I sent the commands to wipe everything. There is a story to tell about find the "right" police to report the crime to, which can be tough when the theft occurred at an airport, in one county, and the perp is in an adjacent county and you live in yet a third county. I made literally 24 calls to multiple police agencies and at multiple points was told, "do you know how many calls we get like this every single day?". Apparently, hundreds. As a rule, the police have bigger crooks to catch. I decided to make a huge fuss, invoking DHS, FBI and everything else I could think of. Finally, I hit on the right strategy. I had been telling the (multiple) police officers I talked with that I was going to get in my car and confront the guy, and they ALL thought that was a really bad idea. Maybe I felt like doing that but --- I'm NOT stupid, OK? -- but it was a good negotiating ploy. I told them I would be there in an hour and so they finally connected me with a deputy sheriff, in his patrol car and not too far from the perp's location. I guess he was convinced I was on my way and likely to get really really hurt, so I allowed him to talk me out of going to the house in exchange for a promise to visit it at dawn. He kept his word. An older woman answered the door. Here is the conversation: "Were you at the airport last night?" "No, my son went to pick up his girlfriend". "Is he here" "Yes, he's asleep" "Is that his car in the driveway?" "No, that's my car" "Mind if I have a look?" "Go right ahead." THE SHERIFF FOUND MY IPAD AND AIR! (But not the backpack). A few days later I had them back. After weeks of more wrangling and assuring the district attorney I would prosecute, the perp was arrested. Six months later, they have not tried him (yet). Bottom line: mixed results which I only gained by being both a pain in the ass to three law enforcement departments all night long, including convincing them I was going to get in a situation where something REALLY bad would happen and they would have to deal with it. I don't recommend this approach. The lesson: it is highly unlikely that the police will do anything. I was lucky. I recommend checking out a service called "Witness" at wittnessapp.com . They have some great ideas for security and will help you with all this (dealing with police) in the event your equipment is stolen. I hope never to have to use their service but now I'm better prepared.
There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about. -- John von Neumann
2012 Dodge Charger Pursuit, 5.7L/370-hp/395-lb-ft OHV 16-valve V-8, $30,965
Meanwhile, in an alternate dimension (Norway):
Civilian 2014 Ford Fiesta 1.0L/80-hp $29,116.
A few decades ago my bike was stripped while locked up outside Sears. Wheeling the hulk home, I came upon a bunch of kids talking to a cop, while still holding my handlebars, seat, etc. Haha I thought, lucky me. Turns out I had the situation wrong. The cop wasn't grilling them, he was the older brother of one of their buddies, chewing the fat, and my claims that the parts they were carrying belonged to the bike i was dragging was just a wild claim, and it was just a coincidence that they were not only the exact parts the bike was missing, but were even the right size (French sizes, not the most common). Somewhat ironically, it was one of the kids who assumed the leadership role and presumably out of some remnant of common decency offered to give me back all the stuff with no admission of guilt; they actually whipped out a bunch of wrenches and rebuilt it, while the cop glared at me with hostility. anyway, the points are: cops are human, they're going to serve and protect not some conceptual citizenry, not "the state" in some Cliven Bundy paranoid wet dream, but their families and friends and neighbors and people with whom they identify.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Sounds simple but you can't do that with public money. Same goes for teachers, why not sack the dummies and reward the performers? Who decides who the performers are? How do you ensure a level playing field (ie some schools are in better socioeconomic areas etc) in order to compare performance? There is no magic bullet. One way leads to corruption, the other to bureaucracy. Somewher ein the middle is where we have landed, and although not perfect, it does work relatively well (relative to say Iran or Nigeria for example).