Slashdot Mirror
Kerry Says US Is On the "Right Side of History" When It Comes To Online Freedom
An anonymous reader writes "Addressing the audience at the Freedom Online Coalition Conference, Secretary of State John Kerry defended NSA snooping actions saying: 'Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security cannot come at the expense of cyber privacy. And we all know this is a difficult challenge. But I am serious when I tell you that we are committed to discussing it in an absolutely inclusive and transparent manner, both at home and abroad. As President Obama has made clear, just because we can do something doesn't mean that we should do it. And that's why he ordered a thorough review of all our signals intelligence practices. And that's why he then, after examining it and debating it and openly engaging in a conversation about it, which is unlike most countries on the planet, he announced a set of concrete and meaningful reforms, including on electronic surveillance, in a world where we know there are terrorists and others who are seeking to do injury to all of us. And finally, transparency – the principles governing such activities need to be understood so that free people can debate them and play their part in shaping these choices. And we believe these principles can positively help us to distinguish the legitimate practices of states governed by the rule of law from the legitimate practices of states that actually use surveillance to repress their people. And while I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes.' He added: 'This debate is about two very different visions: one vision that respects freedom and another that denies it. All of you at the Freedom Online Coalition are on the right side of this debate, and now we need to make sure that all of us together wind up on the right side of history."
If by "right side" he means leaning towards totalitarianism and increasingly corporatist/fascist views towards online freedoms, then ok, I guess I can agree.
History is written by the victors - not necessarily the good guys.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
As far as i can tell, if there was no Snowden there wouldn't be any discussion at all.
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
From TFS:
So, Snowden isn't due for jail-time if he were to return to the USA, Mr. Kerry?
And why has the Obama administration brought charges against more whistleblowers than all other administrations combined? (Six by Obama, three by all previous administrations combined)
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
"Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security cannot come at the expense of cyber privacy."
But that is precisely what is going on.
"I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes."
I don't even know where to begin with this one.
Don't worry. The internet will deal with this because there's money on the line, and the US should understand this. If you start with a base assumption everything is being recorded and monitored, then you can build systems that have protections against that designed in from the start. Math is awesome.
The outcome from this will be an even harder to stop internet. This may have be an unintended effect, but may end up being a net positive gain for personal liberty in the long run. History is full of reasons why this is a good thing, and why we must never lower our guard.
Interesting times.
..don't panic
The US is so far on the wrong side that it is in the ditch.
Since the US, by controlling in the Internet, more or less is capable of re-writing any history that is less than praising of its methods, I suppose the US is on the right side of history. They can write the history, after all.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
US Gov gives itself a stellar report card. What a surprise.
FTFY.
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
one vision that respects freedom and another that denies it. ... and we all know which side the Ketchup Gigolo is on.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
John Kerry in 1971 Doonesbury comics
Some things never change
If that is the case, be honest about it.
"Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security CAN come at the expense of cyber privacy."
See? Now THAT would be an honest statement, and I could rightfully criticize it.
Walmart saves the American consumer well over $200 billion a year, greatly exceeding as a benefit all the "corporate welfare" charges ladled on it, "to help their underpaid employees".
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
".... including on electronic surveillance, in a world where we know there are terrorists and others who are seeking to do injury to all of us."
Here's a crazy thought: How about you stop starting wars, being the unwanted world-police, and generally just conclude that the world doesn't need your dictation. Maybe then people would stop hating you and trying to "do injury [sic]".
Final conclusion: no meddling = no hate = no need for NSA.
Yours anonymously,
Coward
Mr. Kerry,
We do not need a panopticon, either real-world or virtual on the Internet. And there are solid reasons never to build one. See the writings of your forefathers in government, or George Orwell.
If it doesn't exist, and government is forbidden from making it, it can't possibly be misused. It's the same reason nobody should ever build a "continent buster" cobalt bomb.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!"
"go to jail rather than win prizes"
Kerry doesn't seem to have noticed that our government, particularly his boss's administration, is not giving prizes to leakers but rather jailing them. In particular Snowden's prize did not come from the U.S. government, but the mad scramble to capture and punish him certainly did.
this is not a sig
Yes, I agree that this administration is on the right side of history, but this is very annoying to people who elected them to be on the left! It's pretty annoying when the only two realistic candidates are the right and far right candidates.
I read the internet for the articles.
He was just misquoted. He meant the US is on the "write" side of history. As in the US is going to write the history and paint it as completely wonderful.
"In the dark times, national security was hampered by not knowing what every citizen was doing at all times. Roadblocks such as warrants prevented our wonderful security organizations from looking up information on anyone at anytime. This meant that threats could come from anywhere at any time. Those tasked with protecting our security wept over such horrible restrictions. Thankfully, the restrictions were removed and our wonderful security overseers can now look up information on anyone at any time for any reason without having to deal with trivial minutiae like court-issued warrants, probable cause, or fact-based evidence linking the person to a crime. This means we live in the most secure times imaginable. Just ask anyone (who doesn't want to be dragged off in the middle of the night for speaking out against the security agencies)."
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Unfortunately those are the only three choices here.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
they say nice things and then continue the bush/cheney agenda. fascism.
At no point he said explicitly this administration is on the freedom side. 1st rules of politics : make the reader read something he thinks he might read but in reality do not say anything. Reader are probably all assuming *what* the right side is. The funny things is, kerry at no point really explicitly said it.
So, if I can sum up his entire speech in a sentence:
"Hey, we're not as evil as a lot of other countries out there! PS. Turrirrists"
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I believe I speak for the entirety of humanity when I say, "No John. Fuck off, you puppet."
I've noticed that "Let Me Be Clear" is something of a trigger phrase.
To the media, it means "We expect you to treat the following statements as fact. Plan accordingly".
To the rest of us it means "We are about to lie to you more concisely than usual. However, you should pay attention because this will apply to you".
I have a normal test for "wrong side of history" that I divised by looking at the arguments made from the wrong side of history. It doesn't work on this for reasons that will become apparent.
1. This only applies to public debates. Debates entirely among elites don't count.
2. Ignore all arguments coming from emotional appeals. There's emotion on both sides of right and wrong, and these arguments just muddy the water.
3. Whoever cites more tradition or "stability" in their arguments (proportionally) is going to be wrong.
It's amazingly good at identifying the people doing terrible things, and will be brushed aside by progress.
He is an extremely rich person that wants the poor watched. All rich people think this way. Keep those grubby poor people away from my money. And yes you Making $80K a year, you are one of the "grubby poor" to these people.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
He said that America will be on the right side of history... and it probably will. You have to remember that "History is written by the winners." - George Orwell
Yes.
the Republicans are richer than the Democrats. The Democrats are disorganized housecats. The Republicans tend to be more organized and directed towards a single broadly defined goal.
Both sides will fuck over the poor (bottom 80%) in a heartbeat to make their Corporate masters happy.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Now what? Are people going to engage in any kind of activism at all or vent on Slashdot? People simply don't give a crap about privacy and the polls show it. Everyone has the "hey, I'm not a terrorist so why should I care?" attitude.
I've been trying to maintain it for my own online experience and the tracking is insanely pervasive. I can't even create a YouTube account without giving out my phone number. I've actually written my representatives to complain about it, but I know I'm in a small, quiet minority in this country. I just get tired of reading all the incensed comments and articles about the loss of online privacy when it amounts to nothing more than another rant.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Care to show us publicly run schools that do better? I'm seriously in favor of govt. oversight of the corporate flavor, but lack of competition has degraded our public system into a nearly useless shithole.
Just another day in Paradise
"And while I expect you to hold the United States to the standards that I've outlined, I also hope that you won't let the world forget the places where those who hold their government to standards go to jail rather than win prizes." - Kerry
Does he live in such a powerful echo chamber / reality distortion field that he actually believes what he is saying, or does he have such disdain for the citizens that he is comfortable saying the opposite of what is true, to try to squeeze out a few extra votes from those who don't know any better?
The reply to my letter to the FCC regarding Net Neutrality opened with, "Dear Consumer,", and was purportedly from Tom Wheeler. That's what I am? Not a citizen, but a consumer -- a wallet on legs, to be pried open to get at the sweet, delicious money inside? Equal access to communications doesn't matter, as long as the video entertainment circuses gets a fast lane to keep us numb and the subscription cash flowing. To Kerry perhaps it is the same; I am just a vote, to be manipulated in whatever way necessary to serve the greater good. I wonder if both of them open letters to their spouses, "Dear Vagina." The sad truth is I've had the fortune to know some powerful people, and I wouldn't put that last beyond them were they more candid, and less possessed of glib and alluring insincerity. Perhaps the most telling thing is when a reply that opens, "Dear Consumer" shows that they no longer even grasp what the charade is meant to portray.
We are not the consumers, nor the electorate. We are The People. The government is Ours. I tremble to consider the road between here and their understanding of that.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
"Let me be clear – as in the physical space, cyber security cannot come at the expense of cyber privacy."
As in the physical space? So then if "cyber privacy" = physical privacy and "cyber security" = national security then what Kerry is saying is that the US government fully intends to build a police state where every citizen is continuously monitored JUST LIKE in the government does in the cyber world. Because national security cannot come at the expense of personal physical privacy. Good to know.
"But I am serious when I tell you that we are committed to discussing it in an absolutely inclusive and transparent manner, both at home and abroad."
Well, now they are since Snowden left them no choice. Funny how they weren't quite so committed *before* they got caught with their hands in the Orwellian cookie jar. BTW - inclusive does not apparently mean "We the people." Kerry seems to be referring more to lobbyists and apparatchiks.
Stop and consider the Henry Ford business model. Pay people well and they buy your products as well as boost the economy around them so that others can buy your products.
Now consider the Wallmart business model. Pay people poorly, but sell products cheap enough where they can still survive (not thrive).
Which is better for our Republic? Obviously the former is better, it was the model that drove us to the top in terms of economy, GDP, innovation, and wealth.
You should really stop and consider Socrate's Allegory of the Artisan and understand that these issues are not new. Allowing a certain class of people unchecked wealth and government strength to back that wealth is as anti-Republican as you can get.
Wallmart does no service to anyone but themselves and the others holding wealth and power currently.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Citation needed.
Well, I had to get to page two of a google search on "Walmart Makes Stores Close" before I started coming to articles with numbers from sources I'd heard about, but here you'll find this quote:
"A study published in 2008 in the Journal of Urban Economics examined about 3,000 Walmart store openings nationally and found that each store caused a net decline of about 150 jobs (as competing retailers downsized and closed) and lowered total wages paid to retail workers.".
This article was interesting to read but for those averse to clicking the link:
"But the closer a store was to the Walmart location, the greater the likelihood it would close. Persky and his colleagues found that for every mile closer to the Walmart, 6 percent more stores closed. Close in around the store's location, between 35 and 60 percent of stores closed.
And depending on the type of business, the impact of a Walmart moving in can be much worse. Persky says that the per-mile closure rate increase for drugstores is almost 20 percent. For home furnishings, it's about 15 percent. For hardware stores, it's about 18 percent per mile. For toys, it's more than 25 percent per mile.".
Really, that's all the time I'm willing to invest in refuting the idea that somehow WalMart fosters a diverse / thriving / healthy business ecosystem.