Slashdot Mirror


First Transistors Made Entirely of 2-D Materials

ckwu (2886397) writes "Two independent research groups report the first transistors built entirely of two-dimensional electronic materials, making the devices some of the thinnest yet. The transistors, just a few atoms thick and hence transparent, are smaller than their silicon-based counterparts, which would allow for a super-high density of pixels in flexible, next-generation displays. The research teams, one at Argonne National Laboratory and the other at the University of California, Berkeley, used materials such as tungsten diselenide, graphene, and boron nitride to make all three components of a transistor: a semiconductor, a set of electrodes, and an insulating layer. Electrons travel in the devices 70 to 100 times faster than in amorphous silicon. Such a high electron mobility means the transistors switch faster, which dictates a display's refresh rate and is necessary for high-quality video, especially 3-D video."

137 comments

  1. getting real sick of this by slashmydots · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It has a length, width, and depth. Calling it 2D is just "read me" headline-baiting which is getting more and more annoying on Slashdot lately. Here, let me correct it:
    First Transistors Made of Extremely Thin Materials

    1. Re:getting real sick of this by Penguinisto · · Score: 1, Informative

      Cross-posted w/ you, but yeah, agreed - headline fail, big-time. This doesn't even count the fact that the electrons passing through said transistor still occupy three dimensions as well.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see the pedants are alive and well on Slashdot.

    3. Re:getting real sick of this by scubamage · · Score: 1

      Exactly what I was going to say. Just because it's 1 atom thick doesn't mean it's 2 dimensional.

    4. Re: getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not the Cartesian thickness, the 2D refers to the absence of a degree of freedom: If the electrons are constrained to have no motion possible along the radial axis, that axis is considered removed from their freedom. Hence, 2D transistors

    5. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm getting really sick of idiots on intellectual sites like slashdot that don't understand basic chemistry terminology.

    6. Re:getting real sick of this by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What percent of discussion on slashdot goes down in flames over semantic quibbles having nothing to do with the substance of the issue at hand?

    7. Re: getting real sick of this by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Thing is, the electrons are still able to move in 3-dimensional space, since they orbit the nucleus, and that orbital plane can be in any direction.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    8. Re: getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe have a big sign at the top, "Pedants this way ->"

    9. Re:getting real sick of this by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 1

      KInd of a stupid thing to say. I suggest you investigate what a physicist means by two dimensional. Such as in "surface phenomena". Essential this means that the physics of 2D QFT and 2D statistical mechanics apply to what is happening on these semiconductors.

    10. Re: getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      The pedants are not actually "on" slashdot. Nobody is "on" slashdot. In fact it is hard to define what "on" even means in this context. What a silly person you are, to use words that suggest otherwise.

    11. Re:getting real sick of this by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      Flatland 2: Sphereland starring Martin Sheen and Kristen Bell.

      snrk.
      look it up yourself if you think I'm lying.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    12. Re: getting real sick of this by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Informative

      since they orbit the nucleus

      No, they don't do that.

      Electrons exist as standing waves when coupled within an atom.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    13. Re: getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Technically, electrons do not 'orbit' the nucleus in any conventional sense of the word. We say they are in 'orbitals' (a poor choice of a term from a less enlightened time), but in reality they are better said to be in fuzzy 'clouds' where their locations are strictly probabilistic as determined by quantum mechanics.

    14. Re:getting real sick of this by amRadioHed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Electrons are actually considered points by physicists. If they do have a size it is not currently known.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    15. Re: getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the link going to that gawdawful soyl...soiledpant.... whatever site.

    16. Re: getting real sick of this by OakDragon · · Score: 2

      The pedants are not actually "on" slashdot...

      The pedants ARE Slashdot! :)

    17. Re:getting real sick of this by OakDragon · · Score: 1

      Flatland 2: Sphereland starring Martin Sheen and Kristen Bell.

      snrk. look it up yourself if you think I'm lying.

      Saving my money for "Flatland 3 : Tesseractland".

    18. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to physicists, any engineer who works in semiconductors. Actually, I believe an undergrad EE would have been exposed to the concept in junior year, at my school at least...

      This is not obscure information, and I'm surprised the grandparent was confused.

    19. Re:getting real sick of this by kamcgough6582 · · Score: 1

      Hear Hear!

    20. Re:getting real sick of this by jasonmantey · · Score: 2

      In a semiconductor, electrons are not localized. They exist as a wave -- usually mathematically as a wave packet to compromise between a wave and a particle (it is both) -- this wave can be very easily several nanometers. Additionally, electrons diffuse around a semiconductor (they are not bound to one atom) - and this diffusion length is much much larger than a few nm. When a material is just a couple of nanometers, the electrons cannot (statistically) move vertically, and the material is considered 2D (for electron transport - not for physical dimensions of the materials). Headline is 100% correct.

      --
      JM
    21. Re:getting real sick of this by jasonmantey · · Score: 1

      Mentioned above - but electrons are not localized in a semiconductor. Many atoms share the electron - so if few enough atoms (in z direction) share the electron, the electron is 'confined' to 2 dimensions.

      --
      JM
    22. Re:getting real sick of this by jasonmantey · · Score: 1

      It's 2 dimensional to the electrons in the transistor - not 2 dimensional in material physical dimensions. Electrons in a semiconductor occupy a large area shared between many atoms (non localized).

      --
      JM
    23. Re:getting real sick of this by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      That does not mean they do not occupy three-dimensional space.

    24. Re: getting real sick of this by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Do you complain to magazine/newspaper editors that their headline puns aren't exactly the most appropriate ones?

    25. Re: getting real sick of this by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      I get high reading funny comments of people bitching at each other.

      Believe me, I'm on Slashdot right now.

    26. Re: getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoy your beta.

    27. Re:getting real sick of this by scubamage · · Score: 1

      I'm really interested in this - could you dummy down the second statement? I get that electrons are flowing through a semiconducter towards the transistor, but I'm not sure I follow the "occupy a large area shared between many atoms (non localized)"? Are you referring to electrons flowing from atom to atom via their bonds? Not trying to be pedantic, I just really want to understand what you're saying (and I'm nowhere near an EE, lol).

    28. Re: getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Physics troll

    29. Re:getting real sick of this by RavenousRhesus · · Score: 1

      No, electrons are actually considered subatomic particles by physicists.

    30. Re: getting real sick of this by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I originally thought this meant a type of transistor that did not use layers. Hoever it turns out this isn't true either, there are several layers to these transistors. Very thin layers of course, but there is a definite third axis that is vital to the operation.

    31. Re:getting real sick of this by suutar · · Score: 1

      An entirely different meaning for "the goggles - they do nothing"

    32. Re: getting real sick of this by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Do you complain to magazine/newspaper editors that their headline puns aren't exactly the most appropriate ones?

      I do. I also send a rant off to Cisco every time I see a new Cisco commercial on TV.

    33. Re:getting real sick of this by geekoid · · Score: 1

      2 dimension objects can occupy 3d space and still be 2 dimensional.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    34. Re: getting real sick of this by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      An orbiting wave.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    35. Re:getting real sick of this by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      That is 100% true. They are considered a paradox where they're large enough to exist but infinitely small besides that. So their width would be expressed simply as >0. You know what bugs me is that apparently some scientists have decided, without what I consider to be a logical basis, that the singularity at the center of a black hole is not also infinitely small. It is slightly larger than the width of a neutron or quark or something like that. I don't think that's how it works.

    36. Re:getting real sick of this by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      An intersection of a 3 dimensional plane of existence and an additional 1D one would result in a point. If string theorists are correct, the 1D plane is the vibration level of the particle somewhat similar to how time affects 3D objects despite being a separate dimension. So theoretically, it could be expressed as a 1D object in a 3D area if it's based in a 1D plane.

      Or something like that. I suck at particle physics.

    37. Re:getting real sick of this by geekoid · · Score: 1

      The headline is not fail, your understand is.
      I suggest you read Collective Behavior of Interwell Excitation in Double Quantum Wells by Larionov and Tomofev.

      Also:
      http://physics.ucsc.edu/~peter...

      YOU should also be aware the electrons are Zero(0) dimension objects.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    38. Re:getting real sick of this by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      You CAN theoretically make an area of space that only supports 2 dimensions. Nobody can or has done it but it's possible, in theory. You just compress 3D space until it collapses then occupy the resulting space with only 1D and 2D objects. Simple, lol.

      So it's not an issue of word choice, it's an issue of a COMPLETELY scientifically incorrect title written by either a moron or a social engineer to grab views, which is ruining slashdot. The complaints are actually double on topic then, aren't they? They're related to particle science AND slashdot.

    39. Re:getting real sick of this by geekoid · · Score: 1

      with 0 dimensions, hence points.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    40. Re:getting real sick of this by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, it does. It means specifically that in this context. Please move beyond high school physics, kthxbye.
      Let me know when you understand this:
      http://physics.ucsc.edu/~peter...

      then we will talk.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    41. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Electrons are actually considered points by physicists.

      Name three. All the ones I've talked apparently think of them more as vaguely defined clouds of "something". In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that has zero size with nonzero mass and that's only because the mass breaks down at the size part and there's no way to find out empirically.

    42. Re:getting real sick of this by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      What percentage of the discussion on Slashdot goes down in flames over semantic quibbles having nothing to do with the substance of the issue at hand?

      FTFY.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    43. Re:getting real sick of this by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Well, string theory is closer to religion than actual science, so it's no wonder it's hard to understand.

    44. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they are considered a stable standing wave by physicists.

    45. Re: getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm waiting for the release of Flatland in 3D.

    46. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to be a dick, considering he already stated he didn't know and was interested in learning more. Jerks like you are the reason people avoid learning more - why do it if someone is just going to rub things you haven't learned in your face? You have added absolutely 0 to this conversation and should be ashamed of yourself.

    47. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Electrons are modeled as probability distributions over a given space. This is, at a minimum, 3 dimensions and a dimension-like thing.

    48. Re:getting real sick of this by jasonmantey · · Score: 1

      Holy s***. I just spent an hour typing out a response to you, and I changed my slashdot editing options and it lost my response after saving!. I'll retype it later after my wife uses the computer.

      --
      JM
    49. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Electrons are actually considered points by physicists.

      Yes, they do this kind of stuff.

      If they do have a size it is not currently known.

      See?
      They can keep this shit up forever because at a very young age the teacher said "don't try to understand this, just take it on faith" about infinity, and 0. And after 20 years of that shit, and your pretty much stuck.

    50. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typing this for the second time...

      Take by analogy a gimbal. It models/permits orientations in 3 dimensions and transitions in 1 further time-like dimension. If we aim straight up the Y-axis (pitch), making the Z (yaw) and Y rings parallel, a change in X (roll) will be the same as a change in Z. One degree of continuous freedom has been lost.

      An electron, being modeled as a probability distribution, not an actual "moving" thing, can be constrained by its interaction with other particles (other probability distributions). The final probability distribution may indeed occupy X, Y, and Z, but certain transitions will be prohibited in T, allowing the substitution of one dimension for another, effectively reducing the number of dimensions needed to model an electron under those specific circumstances. Remember, the electron is a model--the model is a tool to interpret and understand reality by, not reality itself.

    51. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only if your watching p0rn videos with a really good headset.
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      idiot

    52. Re:getting real sick of this by NemoinSpace · · Score: 1

      How many 2 dimensional "plates" can you stack on each other before they occupy a third dimension? I would say, "quite a few". See? you can always use sufficiently complex explanations to hide behind cleverness. But if you can't answer a question a five year old can reason out, then you're just being clever. Now you will object, and say "I said CAN not MUST" and I will say, oh, aren't you a clever idiot. That's what theoretical physicists do when they aren't doing anything.

    53. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Space is not as simple as saying "this volume exists, and is bounded by Phi, Theta, Rho". Our models allows for arbitrary expressions which do not necessarily describe reality, but instead make it possible to describe reality.

      In expressing a given region of "space", I can assign a magnitude of 0 to a component of a vector defining a probability distribution over that space, effectively removing that dimension from consideration for one "slice" of T. If it is also provided that transitions which would cause it to be non-zero (AKA, not removing a degree of freedom) are prohibited (transitions occur in a time-like dimension), a DOF may be omitted from the model.

      As I explained by analogy to a gimbal in an above comment, the actual probability distribution now only requires two variables (degrees of freedom, plus the implied time-like) to describe, since we've assumed a situation which allows us to disregard transitions (the sets of permitted/prohibited ones are intrinsically related to DOF) in another dimension by substituting changes in one dimension as a function of another dimension. Thus, we have removed a DOF, because a transition we might have been able to make that required an extra variable is now prohibited.

      This doesn't make the actual physical phenomenon take place in fewer dimensions, because the prohibition on transitions may not last for the entire span of T (extra points: unless the Universe is performing opportunistic optimizations). Our model takes place in fewer dimensions, not reality itself (as far as we can tell for the moment, subject to change).

    54. Re:getting real sick of this by jasonmantey · · Score: 2

      I'm going to make this shorter than last time since it's now late (lost by accident) - but here goes:

      Silicon has 4 of its 8 outer band electron states filled, ([Ne]+3s2+3p2) which hybridize into 4 sp3 orbinals in a Si crystal. If you start with a single Si atom, it has discrete energy levels away from its nucleus (aka orbitals). If you bring another Si atom (which has exactly the same energy states) closer and closer, eventually these energy states interact and split (i.e. when the covalent bond is formed). The split produces one higher in energy, and one lower in energy. The lower one ends up with both of the electrons (one spin up, one down), and the upper is empty. The lower energy state is shared (covalent bond) between both atoms. Adding more silicon atoms in a similar fashion, similar splits are seen in the new energy levels, but the splitting amount gets smaller each time. When you add thousands (or, in a real crystal, 10^23 !) of atoms, you essentially have tons of very very closely spaced (in energy) levels that are filled in the lower energy position, and tons that are empty in the higher energy position. The lower "band" of states is called the valence band in semiconductor terminology, and the upper band called the conduction band. The "band" is just tons and tons of very similar energy states. At 0K in a crystal, the valence band is full, and the conduction band is empty.

      Depending on the material and the way these energy bands look, there can exist a forbidden energy gap between the two bands (valence and conduction) where no energy states exist. If you input energy into the system (heat, light, etc), you can excite the electrons into the higher energy conduction band. When this happens, the electron is only very weakly bound to the atom that it came from, because the underlying valence electrons screen the positively charged nucleus. With only a small amount of additional thermal energy (plenty at room temperature) - the electron is free to float around freely in the conduction band between other atoms. It is thus not bound to one atom. This free electron will fall to the lowest available conduction band energy state - and this energy state is shared amongst the atoms. It does not belong to one atom. The state exists because there are so many atoms. Because it's shared, it is considered "non localized" - it is everywhere at once (to a limit) -- it is behaving as a wave. (you can read more by searching for wave-particle duality).

      In an insulator (glass, rubber, etc) the gap between valence and conduction band is very large -- too large for there to be any electrons in the CB at room temperature. There are thus no "free" electrons to contribute to current. In a metal, there is zero gap, and any tiny bit of thermal energy can excite electrons into the conduction band and you end up with a sea of free electrons - giving excellent electrical current abilities. Semiconductors like Silicon are somewhat in the middle -- there is a gap, but it's not too large. Some electrons will be excited at room temperature. The number of excited electrons can be modified vastly (many orders of magnitude) by doping (adding atoms with more or less available electrons like P or B) or by turning an electric field on or off (how a transistor works).

      --
      JM
    55. Re:getting real sick of this by jasonmantey · · Score: 1

      Now this is almost off the front page. Hopefully someone reads it and learns something, haha.

      --
      JM
    56. Re:getting real sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many 2 dimensional "plates" can you stack on each other before they occupy a third dimension?

      the answer is two

  2. Two-Dimensional My Ass... by Penguinisto · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "The transistors, just a few atoms thick and hence transparent,"

    Sorry, but "a few atoms thick" still gives it all three axes in Cartesian space, no matter how small any given axis may be. Hell, even "one atom thick" qualifies as three-dimensional.

    Pedant Headline Fail, eh?

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Pedant Headline Fail, eh?

      Just keepin' 'em honest - if they can do some kind of quantum tunneling of electrons, I'd be willing to forgive the deBroglie height of their waves and call it 2D, if there's to be any useful application of such a term within our view of the universe.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by Kenja · · Score: 1

      They are made from an infinite number of 2D layers!

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    3. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flash memory already uses quantum tunneling.

    4. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What fail? It seems to me as if the definition of 2D-material used in academia only requires that the material is only a couple of atoms thick.

    5. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It depends. There are regimes where the transport can be considered 2D (ie. the density of states function is characteristic of a 2D system).

      It is not always simply the dimensionality of the physical device that is relevant.

    6. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by Kenja · · Score: 1

      The issue I have with that, is you can just claim any material of any thickness is therefore built up of X amount of 2D materials. It renders the term meaningless.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    7. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, and so do tunnel diodes! Ol' Bill there is only over half a century out of date!

    8. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by NoKaOi · · Score: 1

      "The transistors, just a few atoms thick and hence transparent,"

      Sorry, but "a few atoms thick" still gives it all three axes in Cartesian space, no matter how small any given axis may be. Hell, even "one atom thick" qualifies as three-dimensional.

      Pedant Headline Fail, eh?

      Although the whole thing is a few atoms thick, each individual material is only one atom thick. It is a few atoms thick because it consists of 3 different materials, each layer of which is 1 atom thick. Click on the article and there's a pretty picture at the top for you. While I dislike the term 2-D (why can't they just call it one atom thick?) because a single atom obviously has thickness, as far as electrons are concerned there are only 2 dimensions that matter. The term relates to electron transport, not how thick the material is in space. While I agree that /. headlines are often horrible and misleading, in this case it's a term that's more widely used. At least try to understand, or click on the article ([diety] forbid you'd actually take 30 seconds to google it) before you claim it's bogus.

    9. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by maird · · Score: 1

      I wondered about that one for a bit but no-one said the transistors were 2D, only that the materials the transistors were made were two dimensional. The transistors themselves consist of layers of these materials, each one atom thick giving the transistor itself three-dimensions: "First Transistors Made Entirely of 2-D Materials". Underscore materials not transistors. Every atom in each layer can be referenced by it's position relative to any other position in the layer using only two dimensions (left a couple, forward a couple but never up or down any atoms in that layer regardless of up or down being relevant in the multi-layer transistor itself). There are no transistors made of only one material so it was already implicit in the headline that the transistors had three dimensions due to the need to use multiple layers in each one.

    10. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      An atom is not 2-d. 3 layers of atoms can not possibly be 2-d.

      An atom is composed of sub-atomic particles which are also NOT 2-d.

      2-d, in our universe, does not exist, its a virtual concept used to describe other abstract things.

      They (nor you) get to redefine it to mean something different to suit your sensationalizing agenda.

      Using improper terms brings doubt to the whole paper and everything it says. We use specific meanings of words so that we understand the meaning, if you use your own meaning for things different than everyone else, willingly, you're essentially lying and your paper should be thrown out on principle, someone else who understands the words they are using can take credit when they re-write it using the proper terms.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    11. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Nope.
      So may physics ignorant people on slashdot.
      uhg.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    12. Re: Two-Dimensional My Ass... by gTsiros · · Score: 1

      shadows are 2D.

      then again, shadows aren't objects

      --
      Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
    13. Re:Two-Dimensional My Ass... by weilawei · · Score: 1

      The dimensionality of the object can be higher than the degrees of freedom. For reference by analogy, see gimbals, which allow representation of arbitrary axes in n-dimensions, but are subject to gimbal lock, where a change in one axis may be represented by a substitution of a change in another axis, eliminating a degree of freedom (not to be confused with dimension).

  3. ah, the materials are 2-d, not the devices by beschra · · Score: 0

    I am impressed, but I was hoping to be stunned.

    --
    It is unwise to ascribe motive
  4. Pedantry at its finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even an atomically thin material still has three dimensions. The depth, while incredibly slim, is still present.

  5. 3D video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, lower energy consumption, faster clock rates, flexible electronics, nanoscale engineering, and you go for '3-D video' as your go to feature? What the hell is wrong with people?

    1. Re:3D video? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      So, lower energy consumption, faster clock rates, flexible electronics, nanoscale engineering, and you go for '3-D video' as your go to feature? What the hell is wrong with people?

      You mean, aside our penchant for making nearly every technological innovation about porn?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re: 3D video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, stack 10,000 of these transparent video screens on top of one another and you have a real 3D display.

    3. Re: 3D video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be sweet to have your desk be a huge glass cube display...

    4. Re: 3D video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10,000 seems a bit excessive.

      3D-displays using stacked LCD-displays have been around for at least a decade. (But at a very prohibitive price.)
      As far as I know they have only been used together with medical equipment. I think about 20 layers were used and provided a "good enough" 3D view.
      While 20 layers might seem a bit low I don't think it will be worth the expense to have a depth resolution higher than the width or height. 1,000ish screens will probably be more than enough.

    5. Re:3D video? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      what do you mean 'nearly'?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:3D video? by wooferhound · · Score: 1

      It's 2D construction for 3D video . . .

      --
      We are Dead Stars looking back Up at the Sky
    7. Re: 3D video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A number of video slot machines use a second stacked LCD screen for 3d special effects.

      IGT, among others makes them.

  6. In my day... by TommyBear · · Score: 0

    ...we respected the definition 2-D materials as set out in classical physics.

  7. Re:Not 2D by sgbett · · Score: 1

    It will never sell! They should have said just a few atoms thin

    --
    Invaders must die
  8. A few atoms thick by Sigvatr · · Score: 0

    A few atoms thick still isn't 2D.

    1. Re:A few atoms thick by maird · · Score: 1

      None of the materials the transistor is made of is a few atoms thick. Read the story more carefully. There was never a claim that the transistor was 2D, only that each of the materials the transistor used multiple layers of was 2D. Well, even an atom is thick but it is also true that in each layer of the materials used in the transistor the position of any transistor with respect to any other transistor only requires two dimensions to describe it (right a couple, forward a couple, no third direction).

    2. Re:A few atoms thick by maird · · Score: 1

      Correction: I used transistor in places I meant to use atom: None of the materials the transistor is made of is a few atoms thick. Read the story more carefully. There was never a claim that the transistor was 2D, only that each of the materials the transistor used multiple layers of was 2D. Well, even an atom is thick but it is also true that in each layer of the materials used in the transistor the position of any atom with respect to any other atom only requires two dimensions to describe it (right a couple of atoms and forward a couple of atoms, no third direction required for each material used).

  9. To all who say it's not two-dimensional by wjcofkc · · Score: 2, Informative

    two-dimensional
    adjective
    having or appearing to have length and breadth but no depth.

    According some of the definitions of two-dimensional that I am reading here, there is no such thing as two-dimensional outside of a few popular thought experiments in theoretical physics.
    appearing to have - This is why it is not incorrect to call a sheet of paper two-dimensional.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    1. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by snarfies · · Score: 1

      But a piece of paper appears to have three dimensions.

      Even when you look at it edge-on.

      So it is still totally incorrect to call a piece of paper two-dimensional.

    2. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      Your really grasping there.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    3. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by radarskiy · · Score: 1, Funny

      Why try to explain actual engineering to a bunch of typists?

    4. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I'll probably get modded down. (Score: -2, Reasonable)

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    5. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by c4320n · · Score: 1

      Except people do call pieces of paper (and, more commonly, things drawn on them) 'two dimensional'. With great frequency. It's entirely consistent to call something five atoms thick, where the axis perpendicular to its plane is pretty much entirely irrelevant to its design, 'two dimensional'.

    6. Re: To all who say it's not two-dimensional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This reminds me of a job application that required me to submit a one-sided piece of paper with my answers. Only a god could get that job.

    7. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by maird · · Score: 1

      Indeed, most drawings I can think of can be reproduced by moving the drawing device using only two directional references regardless of how thick the material placed on the paper is. Therefore, the drawing is two dimensional in a real sense even though it is simultaneously three dimensional in terms of deposit of crayon, pencil, chalk, ink, etc.

    8. Re: To all who say it's not two-dimensional by Traze · · Score: 1

      Möbius strip resume?

    9. Re: To all who say it's not two-dimensional by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Nah, they just wanted you to wad your application up into a ball before giving it to them.

      (It saves time when filling it in the circular file, don't ya know!)

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    10. Re: To all who say it's not two-dimensional by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I am trying to figure out if someone did give me their resume on a MÃbius strip, if I should hire him for his creativity, or decline him, because he will nitpick on every little technicality. And probably not be a team player.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    11. Re: To all who say it's not two-dimensional by qwijibo · · Score: 1

      That's just crazy, creating paper spheroids to throw into a cylindrical object? This is the fault of the paper and waste basket manufacturers who should all use a single standard form factor to maximize rubbish density.

    12. Re: To all who say it's not two-dimensional by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Damn it. "Filing," not "filling."

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    13. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      No, he's not, not even a little. You said it yourself, there is no such thing as 2-d in our universe outside of thought experiments.

      That doesn't mean you get to redefine it so that it magically does exist in our universe.

      Language only works because we understand the meaning of the words being used, when you randomly redefine them to suit your own personal agenda the whole thing breaks down.

      If they can't even use the proper terms, it makes the whole paper suspect.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    14. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by geekoid · · Score: 1
      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    15. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The transistors as described only work because of the 3 dimensional properties of having layers. There are indeed transistors that are two dimensional in the sense that no wire or layer needs to cross another wire or layer, but that's not true in this case. What they've done is take somewhat normal transistors and made them really really thin with new materials (two of the three layers are only one atom thick). So building a circuit from such material would require applying layers in certain patterns. Their example of a visual display would still require getting control signals to each transistor which is an added level of complexity (and computational problems about how to minimize the number of layers being used for a given circuit).

    16. Re:To all who say it's not two-dimensional by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      I didn't define it. I got that out of a dictionary. I guess what you're not understanding is that to describe something physical as two-dimensional, we are referring to perception through our senses. It is a depth deficit, not a lack. Here are a couple more definitions:

      Two Dimensional refers to objects or pictures that lack the expected range or depth.

      Lacking the expected range or depth; not designed to give an illusion or depth

      So when you refer to something like a piece of paper as being three-dimensional, you are not being accurate so much as you are being a pedant because you completely fail to understand how the definition is applied to physical objects.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
  10. It's a materials science term by MTorrice · · Score: 1

    Materials scientists use "two-dimensional" to describe graphene and similar materials. These are materials that consist of essentially a single molecular/atomic layer.

    1. Re:It's a materials science term by GameboyRMH · · Score: 0

      Yeah and I would entertain that use of the term if this were only one atom thick, but it's not.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:It's a materials science term by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      As a computer programmer, this sounds fine to me.

      The properties of a single object (in this case, the position of any single atom) can be described with only two variables. Thus it's two-dimensional.

      Under this definition, I'm even okay with having several distinct layers, as long as they're all one atom thick. Effectively the material type then becomes the third dimension, but I'm willing to overlook that.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    3. Re:It's a materials science term by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you think your opinion matters to anyone in a field of which you are so deeply ignorant?

    4. Re:It's a materials science term by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Except that this uses 4 layers of these thin atomic structures (including substrate), and one of these thin layers is 3 atoms thick already. So 5 atoms thick plus a really chunky substrate underneath it.

  11. 3d is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    pig disgusting

  12. Hmm by koan · · Score: 1

    The rise of the disposable video newspaper, and what I really want video wall paper.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  13. 2d or not 2d, that is what you question by meerling · · Score: 1, Insightful

    On a measurement level, they are 3 dimensional as nothing in our universe lacks having those 3 dimensions.
    Of course, you could never discern that thickness without some highly specialized super sensitive devices.

    Then there's the whole effective or design thing going on there. That map you look at when you get lost, it's considered 2d. Not because the ink and paper is composed of atoms and are actually 3d, but rather because the information and design of it's display is only on 2 dimensions. Ever see a 3 dimensional map? Sure, they exist, but you don't carry them around. If you really need 3d info of the terrain, you usually use a topographical map that displays info about the 3d, but in a 2d method.

    Sure these new electronic components physically have a 3rd dimension, but it's not part of their functional design. They are laid out like the information on a piece of paper, something generally considered to be 2 dimensional.

    So yes, technically your statement of them being 3d is factual, and yet it is completely worthless. Much like most Microsoft technical advice. To quote part of the old joke, "You are in a Helicopter.". If you want to read the whole joke, there are lots of copies of it, here's one: http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/microsoft-helicopter-joke-t3245996.html

    1. Re:2d or not 2d, that is what you question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >On a measurement level, they are 3 dimensional as nothing in our universe lacks having those 3 dimensions.

      An image projected on a screen has 2 dimensions, height and width but 0 depth. A Mobius strip and Klein bottle are also interesting models of topography.

    2. Re:2d or not 2d, that is what you question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On a measurement level, they are 3 dimensional as nothing in our universe lacks having those 3 dimensions.

      Not nessarily true. Quite possibly the most precise measurement in all of science is the electron g-factor, which suggests that it is a point-like particle with a dimension of 0.

  14. A definition from folks who study these materials by MTorrice · · Score: 5, Informative

    "a material in which the atomic organization and bond strength along two-dimensions are similar and much stronger than along a third dimension" REF: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/1....

  15. Yet another display technology.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that will never make it to market. Come on, where's my consumer OLEDs

  16. Refresh rate limited by electron mobility? by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

    I know very little about display tech, but is display refresh rate really dictated by transistor switching speed? In any event, solid-state amplifiers can extend well into the GHz range, and display refresh rate is sub-kHz. I think rise-times of existing transistors are measured in ns, not ms.

    I understand that high framerates at many megapixels can be computationally expensive, but I wouldn't call that refresh rate. Are talking display tech or graphics card tech here?

    1. Re:Refresh rate limited by electron mobility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think rise-times of existing transistors are measured in ns, not ms.

      Think again. They are many orders of magnitude faster still.

    2. Re:Refresh rate limited by electron mobility? by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      They are comparing against transistors made directly on the amorphous silicon of the display, which are really shitty but transparent..

    3. Re:Refresh rate limited by electron mobility? by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

      Gotcha, thanks. Apparently I don't read good ;)

  17. I knew this day would come by Tablizer · · Score: 0

    Dear Earth,

    Due to budget cuts related to the long and intense war with Satan, I am canceling one of the spacial dimensions. Thus, please re-engineer your technology for 2D instead of 3D.

    My apologies for any inconveniences this may cause, but we must all make sacrifices to win this difficult war.

    Sincerely,
    -God

  18. you ivory-tower physicists make me puke by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    I never saw a spherical cow,
    and nobody'll ever see one;
    But I can tell you, anyhow,
    I'd rather see than be one
    (being non-existant, and all...)

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re: you ivory-tower physicists make me puke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A spherical cow is always theoretically represented with the Greek symbol "Muuuuu"

  19. Nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would you Nerds stop arguing about dimensions...

  20. Why not the 4th ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not cut time instead ?

    Time is money.

    1. Re:Why not the 4th ? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I did. However, I haven't yet told anybody about it except a few guys in robes at the airport. I hope their signs get the word out. -G

  21. Gordon Moore's Law LIVES! by funwithBSD · · Score: 0

    Lives I tell you!

    --
    Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
  22. Amorphous silicon?! by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

    Electrons travel in the devices 70 to 100 times faster than in amorphous silicon.

    It's a good thing that we make our transistors out of monocrystalline silicon then! Are you kidding me?! My grandmother can run down the corridor 100 faster than electrons in amorphous silicon.

    1. Re:Amorphous silicon?! by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "make our transistors out of monocrystalline silicon"

      Not the transistors on LCD displays, which are specifically referenced here.

      The objective is to layer 2-d devices made with good materials over the display rather than making crappy devices directly on the amorphous silicon.

  23. Not informative at all... by RavenousRhesus · · Score: 1

    2D does not refer to an "absence of a degree of freedom". Things denoted in "*number*D" or "*number*-D"format are referring to a number of spacetime dimensions. No one in any field of math, science, or engineering ever relates degrees of motion to "D"s. Sometimes it is abbreviated DOF, but never just *number*(-)D as that is reserved for dimensions.

    1. Re:Not informative at all... by jasonmantey · · Score: 1

      Well, I work with semiconductors, and we absolutely use D for degree of electron motion.

      --
      JM
  24. The transistors aren't 2-D, the materials that mak by MTorrice · · Score: 1

    The use of the term reflects the usage by materials scientists. The titles of both papers describe the materials as 2-D. It is an established term in the field.

  25. FFS by Okonomiyaki · · Score: 1, Funny

    Shut up. All of you.

  26. No they weren't!!! by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

    I was like, "No they weren't - the first transistors were bulky as hell!"

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  27. Yay by Divepadi · · Score: 1

    I agree it is not 2D BUT I am thrilled at the progress in the technology.

  28. Cost cutting! by fastasleep · · Score: 1

    So, they'll only cost two thirds the price?