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New Zealand Spy Agency To Vet Network Builds, Provider Staff

Bismillah (993337) writes "The new Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act of 2013 is in effect in New Zealand and brings in several drastic changes for ISPs, telcos and service providers. One of the country's spy agencies, the GCSB, gets to decide on network equipment procurement and design decisions (PDF), plus operators have to register with the police and obtain security clearance for some staff. Somewhat illogically, the NZ government pushed through the law combining mandated communications interception capabilities for law enforcement, with undefined network security requirements as decided by the GCSB. All network operators are subject to the new law, including local providers as well as the likes of Facebook, Google, Microsoft, who have opposed it, saying the new statutes clash with overseas privacy legislation."

55 of 92 comments (clear)

  1. Not Illogical by EmperorArthur · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's not illogical at all. You just mandate that all traffic goes through a room controlled by the government for "Lawful Intercept." That way you can say that it's done for law enforcement, but the reality is they're emulating the USA and keeping everything while also MITMing anything they feel like.

    --
    So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
    1. Re:Not Illogical by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 2

      NZ is one of the "Five Eyes" in the ECHELON group, also sometimes referred to as AUSCANNZUKUS for Australia, Canada, New Zealand, UK and US. It's likely that they don't just emulate the USA and keep the info, they most likely turn it right over to the NSA and their counterparts in those countries.

    2. Re:Not Illogical by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Facebook, Google and Microsoft have opposed it because it the GCSB is getting in on their game. I used to live in NZ. Despite the Kim Dotcom saga, the govt there is still to be less feared than the American Big Data industry. If you ever get the chance to see the locally produced Cops show 'Motorway Patrol', you will see the usual fears of govt and law enforcement don't apply in this place. I believe NZ is currently rated the least corrupt country on Earth.

    3. Re:Not Illogical by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Funny

      Americans don't speak English.

    4. Re:Not Illogical by master5o1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oz Can Suck Us is what I read every time.

      --
      signature is pants
    5. Re:Not Illogical by baker_tony · · Score: 1

      Still, we're one of the least corrupt countries in the world!

    6. Re:Not Illogical by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      It is not possible to have government without corruption. You must accept one to have the other and vice versa.

    7. Re:Not Illogical by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Americans don't speak English.

      Nor do Australians or most British. At least, both would be inscrutable to someone trying to sound like the queen of yesteryear, if you add in colloquialisms.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Not Illogical by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I believe NZ is currently rated the least corrupt country on Earth.

      Don't believe it... just understand that in NZ, the authorities are much better at hiding it.

      Corruption, hypocrisy and graft remains rife in this country it's just that we're a nation of 4.4 million sheeple who really don't give a damn.

      The great Kiwi saying "she'll be right" is killing this nation because nobody is prepared to stand up and speak out when they see people in power doing bad things and abusing that power.

    9. Re:Not Illogical by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      but the reality is they're emulating the USA and keeping everything while also MITMing anything they feel like.

      The lawful intercept for the fibre connections is MITM-proof. Unless they are going to make Chorus spend billions re-doing the network, the "read only" taps will be useless for MITM attacks.

      When they routed Kim Dotcom's traffic through the government MITM servers just before the raid (illegally at the time) the hit in performance was enough that it was noticeable and traced.

      The government just isn't that smart.

    10. Re:Not Illogical by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 1

      Not if you're even considering this legislation, you're not. Your state may not be corrupted by the commercial sector, but it is surely corrupted by the security sector. Not all corruption is financial.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    11. Re:Not Illogical by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      At least everyone else spells English words correctly.

    12. Re:Not Illogical by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      The isn't black and white, and there'll always be someone trying to rort the system for personal gain. But I much prefer an NZ govt level of corruption than a US one...

    13. Re:Not Illogical by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      I can only assume you don't travel much. I lived there for 15 years and I travel a fair bit. I can assure you based on my experience, whatever little drama you think is important is horse piss compared to the shit that is going on everywhere else. NZ might not be perfect, but it's about as fair a place as you get in this world.

  2. As an immigrant... by DigMarx · · Score: 5, Funny

    I have permanent residency (and thus voting rights), and I think tha**THE GOVERNMENT OF NEW ZEALAND IS DOING THE RIGHT THING**his is a load o**JOHN KEY IS A GREAT MAN**ollocks.

  3. What I can't understand is... by Kittenman · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... why NZ is seen as a hot bed of terrorism, naughtiness and general mayhem. The lead item on the news last night was a political hopeful having to pay back about $350 after claiming on a flight for a friend. Wow. This isn't a country where much happens.

    --
    "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:What I can't understand is... by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Most likely they are getting strong armed by the USA or the EU.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    2. Re:What I can't understand is... by ASDFnz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most likely they are getting strong armed by the USA or the EU.

      It is the US, ever since 9/11 the US has mandated a pile of legislation changes that their trading partners must make.

      With any luck NZ will make the changes and then never enforce them.

    3. Re:What I can't understand is... by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

      This isn't a country where much happens.

      Are you kidding? There are orcs everywhere!

      Just start referring to the GCSB as the Eye of Sauron and be done with it.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:What I can't understand is... by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Whats it going to take to get some politicians elected in a country like New Zealand who will stand up and say NO to the USA (and to the spooks) on issues like warrantless surveillance, spying and all this other crap.

    5. Re:What I can't understand is... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      ... why NZ is seen as a hot bed of terrorism, naughtiness and general mayhem. The lead item on the news last night was a political hopeful having to pay back about $350 after claiming on a flight for a friend. Wow. This isn't a country where much happens.

      Because it never was about terrorism. It was about controlling the actions of the population. Staying in power. That, and sucking up to the US, since the US pays countries for access to the data.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    6. Re:What I can't understand is... by GumphMaster · · Score: 1

      They told the US where they could put their nuclear powered and/or armed vessels in 1984 and have stuck to it. That's is NZ's one bout of teenage rebellion. Now they have "grown up."

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    7. Re:What I can't understand is... by interkin3tic · · Score: 3

      Why is terrorism seen as such a threat in the US? According to this, 2600 americans were injured by air fresheners in 1996. Here's a list of injuries and deaths due to terrorism. If 96 was a good indication, it looks like air fresheners are BY FAR the bigger threat.

      Politicians, law enforcement, and media sell fear. That's the real reason why NZ is ramping up anti-terrorism.

      I'd really like to see a law requiring citizens to take a low dose of anti-anxiety medication. Everyone over the age of 16. We'd colonize mars by 2030, cure cancer, solve climate change, prevent overpopulation, and end most violent crime if we would just stop wasting so much fucking time, energy, and tax dollars in stupid illogical fear.

      And yes, I have seen "Serenity" and I'm willing to risk it.

    8. Re:What I can't understand is... by jonwil · · Score: 1

      The kiwis didn't specifically target the US, they went 100% anti-nuclear because of an act by the French government that (other than the fact that it was carried out by the French government) clearly fits the definition of a terrorist act.

    9. Re:What I can't understand is... by sjames · · Score: 1

      I wonder if part of the post war boom wasn't because the little fears just couldn't compete with the very real fear from combat.

    10. Re:What I can't understand is... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      I'd really like to see a law requiring citizens to take a low dose of anti-anxiety medication...We'd colonize mars by 2030, cure cancer, solve.....

      Warning label reads: May cause apathy, tiredness and reduced creativity.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  4. Trouble with other countrys' standards by davecb · · Score: 2

    If you have to have software that's designed to meet a required lowness of confidentiality, you'll be the only country writing it. You probably won't trust another tin-pot country's software, and will have to keep doing it all yourself.

    Vendors want to sell software that meets the highest standards, so they can sell it into lots of countries, not write individual specials for every tin-pot dictator on the planet.

    Image how much fun it will be, trying to write your own routers, your own google, your own facebook, etc, etc. All so you can lower the quality.

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
    1. Re:Trouble with other countrys' standards by davecb · · Score: 1

      It's a genuine risk if standards get lowered in some areas, as eventually they could "surround" the EU with a desert of lower standards and enable more and more poor products.

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
  5. As a father I do understand this... by seoras · · Score: 1, Informative

    If I were John Key and I had a daughter in a Paris art school I'd want to keep her tits off the screens of millions of voting Kiwi's.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2401561/Does-know-shes-Daughter-New-Zealand-Prime-Minister-bizarre-erotic-photoshoot-posing-octopus-Big-Macs.html

    1. Re:As a father I do understand this... by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      Her tits are covered....

    2. Re:As a father I do understand this... by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Why should I care about whether his daughter shows tits, ass or cunt?

      He's a crappy head of state, that, and that alone, is the reason why you should not want him to run your country. For all I care he could swing his dick in front of the cam on his state address, if he only did a decent job.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:As a father I do understand this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's a crappy head of state

      No. He is not even a head of state at all. He is the head of government.

    4. Re:As a father I do understand this... by whistlingtony · · Score: 1

      This is why we get shitty leaders. It shouldn't matter if his daughter is naked in a photoshoot (and I hardly think that qualifies as whoredom, AND who gives a shit). Who cares if Chelsea is pregnant. Who cares where Obama's Uncle lives(or whatever that one was). Who cares if Anthony Weiner's weiner is on the internet. Etc etc etc...

      It should matter what their voting record is. It should matter how they'll do the job.

      P.S. This strange fascination with sexual "purity" is really annoying and only seems to come out in the dirtiest of folk. Go read The Ethical Slut and stop worrying about it so much.

  6. So what? by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

    All network operators are subject to the new law, including local providers as well as the likes of Facebook, Google, Microsoft, who have opposed it, saying the new statutes clash with overseas privacy legislation.

    They already famously route everything through the United States and its complete lack of privacy laws anyway. What do they care?

    Don't tell me the likes of Facebook, Google and Microsoft are worried about their image as protectors of user privacy...

    1. Re:So what? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      User privacy? Fuck that, they're afraid of a loss of revenue. Why pay them for it when you can get the info yourself?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  7. Majority Rules by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2

    As with the United States and Australia, the people of New Zealand (and other democracies and democratic republics) elect their government and thus have control over their politics.

    One must assume that in all of these places, the majority agree with these policies.

    Shocking? To me, but apparently, I'm not in the majority.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Majority Rules by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      As long as corporations decide who we get to vote for, it doesn't matter who you vote for.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Majority Rules by mynamestolen · · Score: 1

      You are dreaming if you think all these countries are democracies. Without proportional representation you don't deserve to call it democracy. You don't even deserve to call it majoritarianism (which seems to be your bent). In the non-democratic USA, FPP is a disgusting joke. EVEN if there was democracy, you don't put this sort of power into an unaccountable body such as NZ is doing. The cost of liberty is proper analysis of the problem. So back to square one for you.

      --
      work in progress
    3. Re:Majority Rules by mudshark · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You don't know much about NZ government, then. So much for those assumptions of yours.

      The TICS legislation was introduced as an exercise in ass-covering along with another bill which made illegal electronic surveillance performed by the GCSB "lawful" ex post facto. Both bills were overwhelmingly unpopular and submissions from the public and interest groups were practically unanimous against.

      Several opinion polls have indicated that the majority of the NZ population disagree (many vehemently) with their government on these laws, and when they passed it was only with a one-vote majority in the Parliament courtesy of an MP who is the sole representative of his minor party (who himself only got into office because of a pre-election backroom deal with the National party). The best part of all this is that this deciding MP was himself under suspicion of leaking internal documents about illegal conduct by the GCSB, and that his email and that of the journalist he was corresponding with were snooped on in the process.

      For a tiny little island nation we sure do have more than our fair share of idiot politicians and inept law enforcement. Not to mention a system of government whose relationship with democracy grows more tenuous by the year and which resembles a bunch of nice ideas thrown together without any guarantees, such as an immutable and entrenched Bill of Rights. The GCSB and TICS legislation have done considerable harm to the notion of privacy as a basic human right in this country with dragnet surveillance and full feed-through to the NSA of whatever gets picked up.

      --
      In other news, astrophysicists have announced that they now know what all that dark matter is: it's stupidity.
    4. Re:Majority Rules by jonwil · · Score: 1

      The problem even in countries like New Zealand is that the only people who are willing to stand up and say NO to this kind of crap are fringe parties with no real chance of getting any political power.

      Here in Australia the 2 big parties want to change the voting process to make it even harder for the little guys to get into parliament.

    5. Re:Majority Rules by X.25 · · Score: 1

      As with the United States and Australia, the people of New Zealand (and other democracies and democratic republics) elect their government and thus have control over their politics.

      One must assume that in all of these places, the majority agree with these policies.

      Shocking? To me, but apparently, I'm not in the majority.

      It is amazing how often idiots push this same line, without realizing a pretty major and catastrphic flaw.

      But carry on, though.

    6. Re:Majority Rules by dryeo · · Score: 1

      With more then 2 parties, it is quite possible in a parliamentary system for a party to form the government with a minority of votes. eg Canada where our current government scored 38% of the vote amongst those who bothered to vote.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    7. Re:Majority Rules by cardpuncher · · Score: 1

      You could certainly argue this where the legislation, as in this case, has passed through a legislature.

      The way this would play out in the UK (and appears to have happened in the US) is that you get invited to a meeting in a government office and some people whose exact role is not clear will explain how important they feel it is for you to co-operate in the interests of national security. They might hint at the unfortunate consequences of being unco-operative or of letting anyone know that the meeting has taken place. You then leave and do as you're told.

      When the government's policies (and, indeed the laws) are secret, you can't blame the voters, because they don't get to find out what the government is actually doing, as opposed to what it says it's doing. There is an elected government and an unelected shadow government - which, by means of a similar process of nods and winks, makes sure that no-one who stands for election is a threat to them.

    8. Re:Majority Rules by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      The problem even in countries like New Zealand is that the only people who are willing to stand up and say NO to this kind of crap are fringe parties with no real chance of getting any political power.

      Here in Australia the 2 big parties want to change the voting process to make it even harder for the little guys to get into parliament.

      Thats nothing, in Mongolia they are trying to make it so that if you don't have seats in parliament you can't run in an election!

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  8. Government approval of IT worker precedent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is setting the precedent for IT workers to need government certification. It's as dangerous to the operators of the internet, as the net non-neutrality is to the routing policies of the internet.

  9. When Jefferson said... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When Jefferson said "Where governments are afraid of the people, there is freedom" he obviously didn't take into account the possibility that governments could preemptively terrorize its people to avoid having to be scared of them.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  10. Does this mean... by camperdave · · Score: 1

    A service provider (also defined in section 3 of the TICSA) is;
    a) means any person who, from within or outside New Zealand, provides or makes available in
    New Zealand a telecommunications service to an end-user (whether or not as part of a business
    undertaking and regardless of the nature of that business undertaking);

    Does this mean they can go after TOR and VPN operators wherever they are?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Does this mean... by camperdave · · Score: 1

      This is pretty bad news for me, as I am NZ's leading internet traffic engineering expert, and NZ security clearance rules preclude me from gaining security clearance (dual nationality, no degree).

      Wow! That sucks. Any chance of getting "grandfathered" in?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  11. wow NZ talks straight by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    I double checked, the NZ law is actually called the "Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Act of 2013". No bullshit Patriot Act doublespeak. Give credit where credit is due.

  12. Um.. Not exactly. by BlakJak-ZL1VMF · · Score: 1

    Demand without a warrant? There still needs to be a legal basis for the ISP to breach their customers privacy.

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    -.-. --.-
  13. Not compulsary. by BlakJak-ZL1VMF · · Score: 2

    There's no obligation for ISP's to have staff go through security clearances - in fact plenty wont pass the requirements (citizenship/residency for >10 years). ISP's can nominate staff to be vetted and those that're vetted, can be given more background as to why some information is being sought or why a particular issue is being flagged.
    Important to note that the GCSB focus here is 'national security' and this isn't quite the same as lawful intercept for other purposes.

    --
    -.-. --.-
  14. Security Clearance Requirement Explained by BlakJak-ZL1VMF · · Score: 3, Informative

    The guidance document as published at http://ncsc.govt.nz/assets/TICSA/NCSC-Guidance-for-Network-Operators.pdf states:

    > To assist the GCSB and network operators to work together on network security risks, network operators
    > may nominate a suitable employee (or employees) to apply for a SECRET level GCSB sponsored security
    > clearance.
    > Network operators may also, upon request, be required to nominate an individual for security clearance
    > (section 75).
    > Having cleared staff within network operators allows the GCSB to share certain information about network
    > security risks that is classified. While these individuals cannot pass classified information to un-cleared
    > colleagues, they will be able to give informed guidance on identifying and addressing network security
    > risks.
    > If a network operator does not have cleared staff, the GCSB will still seek to engage with them, and share
    > what information it can about network security risks.

    The legislation itself states:

    A network operator must, within 10 working days _after being required to do so_ under subsection (2), (3), or (4),—

            (a) nominate a suitable employee to apply for a secret-level government-sponsored security clearance (a clearance); and

            (b) notify the employee of the nomination; and

            (c) give written notice of the name and contact details of that employee to the Registrar.

    - so the vetting obligation isn't an obligation until the Network Operator is 'required'. The rationale for putting staff up for vetting seems sound, but as you can see from the last part of the quote from the guidance, they can still work with service providers that don't have cleared staff.

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    -.-. --.-
    1. Re:Security Clearance Requirement Explained by BlakJak-ZL1VMF · · Score: 1

      I too have worked directly with them in the past, and they're not anywhere near as bad as you imply. Like any agency they sometimes need prodding, poking or plain old 'escalating', but as most companies have these problems _internally_ i'm not surprised that it happens between government departments, even in NZ.

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      -.-. --.-
  15. Re:I imagine by davecb · · Score: 1

    Historically, software that can only be sold in one country has suffered badly in the marketplace against software that can be sold everywhere. I first saw that at GEAC, when they were certified in (if memory serves) Germany and started seeing many more sales in countries we'd never heard of before (;-))

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  16. So... by woboyle · · Score: 1

    Just who did the behind this bribe? What a TERRIBLE act! I used to have a lot of respect for NZ, but no longer. Sorry Kiwis, but I won't be visiting your beautiful land any time soon... :-(

    --
    Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.