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Orca Identified As 103 Years Old
guises (2423402) writes "The oldest known orca has recently been spotted off western Canada at an age of 103. A female nicknamed 'granny,' photos exist of her from the 1930s, where she can be identified by her distinctive saddle patch. The news has prompted calls for another evaluation of marine mammals in captivity — orcas in captivity usually don't live beyond their 20s."
"And get off my kelp!"
Table-ized A.I.
We clearly need to capture this whale and study it.
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
I'm starting to think the only useful things a human can learn about wildlife in captivity is that it is no longer wild, nor alive, and we're despicable creatures for constraining other living beings for the rest of their, now-shortened, lives.
But, hey, at least some 'scientific' proof of how much we're being a bunch of dumbasses. This is the one field where I would expect serious scientists to shut down everything if they have proof they're doing more harm than good.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
impressive, since the first thing we do is compare to ourselves as some sort of We're #1! thing.
I always found this story of a 100 year old harpoon being found in the back of a modern whale to be a pretty wild reality check:
http://www.nature.com/news/200...
~.~
I'm a peripheral visionary.
This is the one field where I would expect serious scientists to shut down everything if they have proof they're doing more harm than good.
Not likely. Even if they were serious scientists, they're still working within the confines of an amusement park. They have bean counters to answer to, and to them the "science" derived from keeping the animals is a slight PR bonus, not their reason to exist.
... whatever
Whale watchers have carefully vetted systems to look for unique markings. In humpback whales, it is the underside of the flukes. If I get a decent picture of the ventral flukes on a local whale, I email to our local whale watching experts (with GPS coordinates). On grey whales it is the left side of the dorsal fluke and upper back for some odd reason.
While nobody has actually proven the markings are unique, they seem to work pretty well for long term population studies. Easier than flipper prints.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Umm... A whale breathes air, as it is a mammal. Your guppy is a fish.
Well, if you RTFA they mention that she has another identifier: a notch on her dorsal fin. Even if the saddle patch was not unique - and I'm better prepared to take the word of the experienced whale spotting captain on this than the skepticism of random internet guy - it seems very unlikely that another orca would have both identical markings and an identical notch in her dorsal fin.
I don't think it's the confinement. Wolves which range hundreds of miles are kept in captivity by humans in small areas (dogs), and they live far longer with humans than in the wild.
I think it's the water quality. Dog poop and urine don't mix with the air, they don't breathe it in. Marine animals on the other hand, DO breathe their own feces. Which is why it's essential to have a large volume of water per animal, as happens in nature.
I have guppy fish in a 30 gallon tank. They almost never live past 2 years in captivity. In nature however, guppies live 5 years or more.
I've been thinking of doing an experiment for quite a while. Take two groups of guppies, one in a common aquarium environment, say 10 guppies in a 10 gallon tank (1 inch of fish per gallon). The other group would live in a far less dense tank, maybe 5 guppies in a 200 gallon tank. (5 would be the minimum number since guppies are communal fish and they don't do well mentally unless they're in a group). And compare the fish lifespan in the the 2 groups.
Dogs have co-evolved with humans for hundreds of years. We'd expect them to be fairly well adapted though they can still get some serious psychological issues.
Cats haven't been around as long, but cats are generally solitary to begin with so might do better with isolation.
Orca are highly social, perhaps moreso than humans. And an aquarium can hardly compare to the ocean in sensory complexity. It's basically like sticking a human in solitary confinement, it's inhumane and they tend to go crazy.
I love the idea of going to an aquarium and seeing Orca swimming around. But I can't imagine a way of doing so that doesn't essentially amount to torturing the poor animals, Seaworld and the like should absolutely be shut down.
I stole this Sig
I'm taking my wife on vacation to a resort. She has always wanted to swim with dolphins, and given the recent hate mongering about captive cetaceans I anticipate it the opportunity will be lost forever in the US within 15 years. It's unfortunate our kids won't have the same opportunities.
Oh, boo-hoo. Take a boat offshore, bob around in the water for a bit and if any dolphins want to swim with you, they can. There are plenty of places where they do.
Taking this campaign to its logical conclusion, they will probably eventually call for a closure of all zoos.
There are more reasons to run a zoo than simply to entertain the gawking masses.
Oh, and god forbid you go see animals on safari. That's exploitation as well.
Who says that?
Your tasty snack is based on the suffering of dairy cows, who live for only a few short years before they are brutally killed and ground into burger. How can you live with yourself?
While still holding the view that cetaceans shouldn't be kept in captivity for little more than entertainment purposes? Pretty well, actually.
Your basic cow has been domesticated for centuries. Living on a farm in a herd and getting turned into burgers is what a cow is these days. It's not like they're highly intelligent or highly social animals. Release a cow into the wild, and it wouldn't have the capacity to understand that it was anywhere other than on a bigger farm.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
No advancing of marine mammal knowledge happens in these theme parks, apart from discovering that each and every time the animals in question have poorer health (physical & mental), and die sooner.
And yes, of course many die in the wild, but by your reasoning we should keep everyone in captivity, as people die in the wild - doesn't that seem rather bizarre logic?
Seaworld exists to make money. That's it. Their scientific endeavours are of severely limited importance to the field, and while their animal rescuing attempts are honourable, they are rather hypocritical in the face of their own record regarding the treatment of their own animals.
Wolves which range hundreds of miles are kept in captivity by humans in small areas (dogs), and they live far longer with humans than in the wild.
Dogs get taken out for walkies at least once per day, or they start to go crazy and become unhealthy. Captive orcas never have the equivalent. It's the equivalent of a dog getting all it's exercise by walking round and round the coffee table. I wouldn't expect such a dog to have the same lifespan as a dog that's been out for walks.
Don't be an asshole. The OP is right. Of course there are varying kinds of intelligence, but Orcas are near relations to dolphins, and both show higher intelligence than wolves or dogs in pretty much any measure.
because it dies sooner than in the wild (which btw is not proven by this single grandmother killer whale).
Existing scientific observations of Orcas in the wild give their average lifespan as 60 to 70 years. Vs about 20 in captivity. It's not even close.
And to add insult to injury, the staff as SeaWorld are trained to lie about this: they claim the average expectancy in the wild is about 20 years. (ref: the documentary Blackfish has video evidence of this.)
But I am just curious: the beef and pork you eat is also 'grown' in cages.
As I'm sure your mother told you, two wrongs don't make a right. Generally people make a distinction between captive wild animals, and domesticated animals bred as livestock. Whether that is a justifiable distinction is a mater of personal morality.
I do not think there is a problem with Sea World.
Then you should seek out Blackfish and watch it.
Of course I agree that out abuse of the natural environment and the animals in it is a huge problem. But that doesn't let SeaWorld off the hook.
I have guppy fish in a 30 gallon tank. They almost never live past 2 years in captivity. In nature however, guppies live 5 years or more.
I would say that speaks more to your skill about taking care of fish then anything else. If I omit fry my fish live usually past the upper end of the age limit.
The sea world tank in San Diego is 7 million gallons and has 10 wales, that's approximately 100,000 ft^3 per whale. Further the filtration on the tank runs 30,000 gallons per minute it takes approximately 3 hours to filter 7 million gallons. Water cleanliness is not the issue, the whales and dolphins are stressed from from loud noises of children and not being able to travel, they are fed obscene amounts of antacids to try to minimize the stomach ulcers.
Knowledge = Power
P= W/t
t=Money
Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
There are numerous examples of highly advanced behaviours in Orcas, e.g. hunting strategies that require significant forward planning and close co-operation to pull off. E.g. washing seals off ice floes by swimming in tight formation to create a large bow wave. They also have complex social structures and behaviours, as with other dolphins and most whales generally. Mothers have been seen to teach calves hunting skills, e.g. pods that beach-hunt mothers have been seen "instructing" calves on how to do it, even pushing them toward the beach. This is clear evidence of culture - a very high-order behaviour. There is also strong evidence that Orcas have languages, differing significantly between different groupings.
In "Blackfish" it was reported that a pod of Orcas, that had had calves taken before, adopted a strategy to try foil the hunters. They split up with one group of adults swimming down one sound, breaching regularly to attract the attention of the hunters and divert them; while another group of mothers swam quietly with the calves down another sound (unfortunately, the hunters had a spotter aircraft). That story, if true, shows incredibly advanced planning, problem solving and organisational abilities.
You could go on and on. There is, to my understanding, *ample* evidence that these are *highly* intelligent animals, and are used to living very social and inter-dependent lives. On the latter social aspect, their needs potentially may even be much greater than ours.
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
Is that two-factor authencetacean?