US May Prevent Chinese Hackers From Attending Def Con, Black Hat

Taco Cowboy (5327) links to a report from Reuters that says "Washington is considering using visa restrictions to prevent Chinese nationals from attending popular summer hacking conferences in Las Vegas as part of a broader effort to curb Chinese cyber espionage, a senior administration official said Saturday. The official said that Washington could use such visa restrictions and other measures to keep Chinese from attending the August Def Con and Black Hat events to maintain pressure on China after the United States this week charged five Chinese military officers with hacking into U.S. companies to steal trade secrets."

Comments

better idea

[ebonum]

Bar members of the Chinese military from attending. Even that is purely symbolic.
Someone should tell Obama that in American we don't bar people based on race or nationality alone.

Keep in mind. The US sets the standard. If we start doing things like this, don't whine when the China does the same thing. They could make the same case for any conference on any topic. If Americans come, they will steal XYZ.

Re:better idea

[Dahamma]

Someone should tell Obama that in American we don't bar people based on race or nationality alone.

No, but there's nothing wrong with barring people based on political or military affiliation. China is not the US. They carefully control who they allow to leave China for the US, and so the Chinese citizens attending Def Con are doing so with the implicit permissions of the Chinese government.

They could make the same case for any conference on any topic.

Yeah, next time there is a hacker conference like Def Con based on complete freedom of expression and anarchy in China let us know. I won't hold my breath. And if China starts banning all US citizens from attending conferences, said conferences will no longer be held in China. But they won't, because the majority of China's economy currently revolves around placating American investors.

You can trash the US all you want, but there are a limited number of countries in the world that would even allow a conference like Def Con or Black Hat.

Re:better idea

[rtb61]

Bar members of the Chinese military from attending. Now how exactly does the NSA know it was members of the Chinese military. Let me guess after initiating proper diplomatic relations the NSA approached China's computer crime task force and initiated a legal joint investigation in the hacking and after proper legal investigation discovered the perpetrators. What, don't tell me this didn't happen, not even fucking close.

So the NSA hacked computers in China, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt those computer could be hacked and placed 'er' discovered proof of network hacking in the US, conducted by the NSA 'er' government of China and now the NSA 'er' government of China seeks to cover it up.

You can see the real problem here. The NSA blatantly and publicly lied repeatedly to it's own government, the NSA now has publicly declared it is hacking government computers in China based upon the evidence they are attempting to submit. Now we know how naughty the NSA has been, the question is would they, hack computers in the US and then falsify evidence and plant it on computers in China that it has now publicly admitted to hacking, in order to deflect attention away from it's own criminal activities.

Surely those idiots can see the problem they have created for themselves in combining network defence and network assault in the one unit. They are an offensive computer network organisation, their role is to destroy and break the security of other countries networks. Which now they are publicly admitting to via this flawed investigation, all based around hacking networks and breaking security and publicly proved only thing, is did hack government computers and networks in China. As to the validity of the evidence, they utterly tainted it to the point that only corrupt courts within the US would accept it and the rest of the world and the international courts would have to reject due to that extreme contamination.

Re:better idea

[dryeo]

Yes, America has inverted the normal definition of totalitarian to pretend they're the opposite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:better idea

[russotto]

What you have described is exactly the Chinese government model. Except for the hiring part - the US clearly does that at Def Con, but instead of threatening to jail people they threaten to pay them 6 figures.

How soon we forget. The FBI arrested Dmitri Sklyarov at DefCon.

Time to move the conferences

[spasm]

When the US govt starts dictating who is allowed to come to your conferences you need to move the conference. Same as the AIDS research conferences have been held anywhere except the US since the 80s because from 1987 to 2009 the US govt banned people with AIDS from traveling to the US.

Re:Time to move the conferences

[Frobnicator]

It isn't the only one. Quite a few conferences dedicated to cryptography and security have been held outside the US because of the ITAR controls and other regulations that treat encryption as weapons and security systems as terrorist devices.

Cryptographic systems were listed as arms until about a decade ago, and even today some security technologies are potentially on the list. Even if they aren't on ITAR any more, attending the conference is certain to get your name entered to all kinds of US-based lists. Rather than risk being considered for international arms dealing and international terrorism, quite a few conferences take place anywhere but the US. The risk both to the conference itself and to those who might attend the conferences are just too great.

Austria, Switzerland, France, Malaysia, ... many countries are still more popular for security conferences than the US.

Re:Not if they just repudiate the debt.

[ShieldW0lf]

There's always the rest of the world(read: countries within the NATO-defined First World) that doesn't want the US's head on a plate.

Dude, I hate to disillusion you, but we ALL want your head on a plate. If you meet someone and they lead you to believe otherwise, you should try to recognize that he's talking out of both corners of his mouth in an effort to get something out of you. None of us like you. I was half tempted to say that, maybe, the Israeli's, but honestly, I'm confident they think of you as a self-absorbed pack of idiots whose only role is to be exploited.

This is not a troll. At least, it's not intended to be a troll. I genuinely am trying to set you straight, help bring your perspective a little closer to the realities that exist outside your borders.

The shit you guys are responsible for as a nation is not a joke. No one is laughing along with you.

Inside your country, you can divide things up into "The CIA did this, the NSA did that, I didn't do shit, I was just here minding my own business and paying my taxes.", and that flies with the people you meet on the street.

But then when Chinese hackers do something, you say "China did it."

That's how it is for the rest of us too. Without open warfare, you can't intrude into the inner workings of China and hold individual citizens accountable, you need to deal with the entire state, hold them accountable, and leave it to them to hold the individual citizens accountable, or not.

We can't intrude into the inner workings of America and hold individual citizens accountable, we need to deal with your entire state, hold you accountable, and leave it to you to hold the NSA accountable.

So, basically, everything your government does to the rest of us, you have done to the rest of us. You can argue about fairness and prejudice till you're blue in the face, but these are the power dynamics, and that's just how it is.

You seriously need to clean your house before the rest of the world is forced to come do it for you. If you don't realize just how precarious a position your government has put you in, you really need to wake up.

Re:How now, 50 Mao?

[Opportunist]

Then I guess all the corporations who let China build cheap crap for the US are traitors? And everyone buying something "Made in China" is as well?