Slashdot Mirror
Group Demonstrates 3,000 Km Electric Car Battery
Jabrwock (985861) writes 'One of the biggest limitations on lithium battery-powered electric cars has been their range. Last year Israeli-based Phinergy introduced an "aluminum-air" battery. Today, partnering with Alcoa Canada, they announced a demo of the battery, which is charged up at Alcoa's aluminum smelter in Quebec. The plant uses hydro-electric power to charge up the battery, which would then need a tap-water refill every few months, and a swap (ideally at a local dealership) every 3,000km, since it cannot be recharged as simply as Lithium. The battery is meant to boost the range of standard electric cars, which would still use the Lithium batteries for short-range trips. The battery would add about 100 kg to an existing Tesla car's battery weight.'
I wonder whether anyone will remember doing this sort of maintenance (filling the tap water part) without some sort of big warning or display somewhere.
Why don't they get honest and say "Smelting aluminium at 960 degrees".
With an automatic swap system on gas stations, it might provide an instant refuelling, something impossible with fixed lithium batteries currently. Possibly it might make sense to standarise such a swapping machine, and a respective battery compartment, before multiple standards arise -- one machine for a hydrogen cell, aluminium battery etc.
Well, the technology is getting better, but it's still not there. And why does tiny little war torn israel always seem to have cutting edge technology but we can't make OR EVEN BUY the technology here in the U.S.?
When I worked in one inner suburb of a medium-sized city, and lived in another, I commuted about 50km each way, 100km in total, and hence 3000km over the course of a little over a month. Commutes 3-4 times that long are not unheard of in larger cities. But for me, would have meant a battery swap about 10 times a year. I don't know how long the swap should take, but I do know I would not have time to visit a dealer - the closest being about a half hour away - anywhere near that frequently, even if it were a short and painless process.
Nonaggression works!
~220 pounds for those that don't want to look up the conversion.
This is great for public transport. Changing units every 3000 Km is non-issue there. Vehicles are in the garage over night anyway...
839*929
At 3000km, that's shorter than even a severe-duty oil change interval. One long trip and it's done. Seriously, say I wanted to drive from Dallas to Las Vegas; the battery lasts just long enough to get me there in one shot. Sure, the rechargable pack lasts long enough for the short drives once I'm there, but the return trip is going to suck with the repeated stops for recharging, especially with the lack of SuperCharger stations along the way. So by the end of 2015 I'll be able to make it, according to Tesla, but what do I do until then? I suppose if I can afford a Model S I'm probably affluent enough to pick up a plane ticket instead?
This "battery swap" is going to be nowhere near cheap, and we're talking about adding 220lbs to an already relatively porky sedan. I think I like my chances with next-gen rechargables better than this.
Sounds like a disposable battery and a horribly energy inefficient way to extend the range.
Moving batteries back to the manufacturer when discharged and probable an insane amount of energy to reuse.
For 100 KG I'd rather add a small engine / generator.
Only about $375? Great!
and needs swapping and "charging" in a factory sounds very much like a non-rechargeable battery.
With that concept, you could very easily have electric cars powered with a very large number of alcaline batteries, and "charging stations" in which you change the alcaline batteries.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
RTFA and redo your math: "The spent batteries would be replaced with charged batteries during a "quick operation" at a local service station.
Because the car would still rely on its regular rechargable lithium-ion battery most of the time and would switch to the aluminum-air battery as a backup only if the lithium-ion battery ran out, and because most car trips are 50 kilometres or less, Alcoa estimates the aluminum-air batteries would only need to be changed about once a year"
They are both correct, since the assumption is that you do not remove the existing battery, you just temporarily add the AI battery.
Unsigh!
Either that's one long battery, or one long car. Either way, sounds pretty useless.
I bet a lot of potential EV owners are put off range anxiety - that idea that every once in a while they'll have to do a really long trip and they can't because the battery won't take them far enough and will take hours to recharge. Probably the rest of the time they only need the battery power to do 30-100 miles between charges. If cars carried less batteries then they'd cost less, weigh less and be more efficient too. The backup might last some people years before it was fully used up but its there if they need it.
Although untypical for Slashdot the summary is right:
The article summarized says:
"The car would still rely on its regular rechargable lithium-ion battery most of the time and would switch to the aluminum-air battery as a backup only if the lithium-ion battery ran out"
So you need to add the weight of this battery to the weight of the existing batteries.
I have an antique electric tractor. It's 41 years old and runs great, with almost zero maintenance; it uses about 20 cents worth of electricity to mow an acre of grass. If I replace the motor brushes every 30 years, and periodically wash out and maintain the corrosion-prone battery compartment, it will last forever.
But the achilles heel of these machines is battery maintenance, which consists of watering the big lead acid batteries and properly charging them. There are no mysteries in this process, and no great difficulties - you just have to remember to do it, and the batteries simply will not forgive forgetfulness. Properly cared for batteries can easily last twelve years, but it's very common for people to ruin a $600+ set of batteries in two years or less, simply from a lack of mindfulness. That changes the economics of it, which are heavily front-loaded. If your batteries last ten years, the tractor is much cheaper to own and operate than a gasser, but if you destroy your pack in two years, you waste that huge upfront battery investment and take a financial beating.
The Toyota Prius's NiMH battery packs were designed with this human reality in mind; the intelligent battery management electronics are the key to that car's success. Tesla took it one step further; they not only have intelligent battery management that does not require functioning user brain cells, they also built a high cell count charging system that allows rapid charging without compromising battery capacities.
Depending on humans to do battery maintenance doesn't work, in practice, except in the case of engineering geeks who are not even slightly behaviorally representative of the species as a whole.
All these toxic batteries we are creating?
I wouldn't call a disposable aluminum battery the "cutting edge" of technology.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
Do you really have that much of a reading comprehension problem? Slashdot is becoming a sad joke. Just so quick to want to poke a hole in something that you come on all gangbusters and end up looking like a total fool.
Sigh...
When I worked in one inner suburb of a medium-sized city, and lived in another, I commuted about 50km each way, 100km in total, and hence 3000km over the course of a little over a month.
I know it is Slashdot and the summary is misleading about it "adding 100kg over a Tesla battery" but if you actually read the article you would learn that the idea is not to replace the existing Li-ion battery but to have this as well as a reserve. As you point out most people only drive short trips for which a Li-ion battery is well suited. This is just to provide a power for long distance driving.
However, depending on the cost, since this battery is only 100 kg and the current Tesla battery is 500kg you could imagine completely replacing the Li-ion battery with five of these and having a 15,000 km range which would probably do most people for the best part of a year. This would only work if it is cheap to replace compared to the cost of a Li-ion battery which lasts for 100,000 km and costs $30k. So assuming the cost of electricity to recharge the Li-ion palances with the installation costs of the multiple aluminium battery packs you would require, the cost per aluminium battery would need to be $900. The cost of 100 kg of aluminium (which seems to be the principle component) is $180 for 100 kg so this does not rule out such a price.
Sadly the killer for this, and all electric cars, is that assuming an internal combustion car uses 6l/100km of petrol the price of petrol would need to reach $5/litre before it became more expensive than the cost of battery or about a factor 4 higher than it currently is in Canada. Still give it a few more years of declining battery costs and increasing oil prices and we will finally be there!
As we should all expect, the summary is wrong. The article states that the Al battery can "extend" the range of the car by 1600km... and note that they're careful to say it can't drive a car 1600km, you still have to have a Li-ion battery too.
Consider this idea dead.
USA USA!
Wasn't there some professor who had mostly perfected a fuel cell based on some kind of aluminum cycle?
For starters: I am not all that impressed. They're dressing this up as 'rechargable', when in fact it is emphatically not so, this is a 'primary' battery, not a rechargable 'secondary' battery, and 'recharging' it in this context is just new-speak for 'recycling' it.
OK, let's put that aside for a moment. The real questions are:
1) What is the estimated, large-scale, ultimate carbon footprint of using this battery technology? Is it better or worse than Li+ technologies? If it's about the same or worse then maybe we'd better think twice about this.
2) What is the estimated ongoing cost to the end-user/consumer assuming it became the standard for electric vehicles and as such proliferated throughout the market? If the cost every few months (or sooner, for heavy drivers of their vehicles) is excessive then it's just not practical from a fiscal point of view.
3) For both the above, assume that the technology would be, generously enough, licensed immediately (or at least soon) to 3rd party companies, or better yet (perfect world) made open-source and/or royalty-free (because the creators/backers are such humanitarians, LOL) for the betterment of all mankind.
4) Now that #3 has got the rose-colored-glasses perspective out of the way, let's assume they're greedy bastards who aggressively enforce any patents they have on the technology, and only allow companies that pay licensing fees/royalties to recycle the battery packs, vehicle owners are only allowed to get swaps at 'authorized facilities', etc., and the cost naturally is passed along to the consumer.
Needless to say I'm somewhat leery of technology like this. Part of me wants to say it sounds like a step backwards. Here's another question:
5) How much aluminum is lost (percentage estimate?) per cycle of this type of battery? Questions 1 through 4 aside, is it really long-term practical from a technical standpoint, or is it wasteful of raw materials, turning aluminum into a non-usable waste product?
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
The plant uses hydro-electric power to charge up the battery, which would then need a tap-water refill every few months, and a swap (ideally at a local dealership) every 3,000km, since it cannot be recharged as simply as Lithium.
I don't get it. It needs a tap water refill every few months, but needs to be swapped out entirely every month? I drive more than 3000km every month. How is this supposed to be practical? Is this geared towards people that don't drive much at all? Even then, the battery will likely need to be replaced over 100 times during the life of the car. I suppose as long as the battery swap is as quick, easy, and cheap as fueling up at a gas station, this might work. Otherwise, I'm not sure what they're thinking here.
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
Suspiciously missing is the KWH equivalent of the battery and the peak and continuous load current rating of the battery.
It's impossible to determine the real world specs of this "battery" without those.
They sound like they might be great for standby power/emergency applications--though I suspect they have a shelf life even if not used--any air that gets in will "run" the battery.
What if an electric car would have a space for this battery and a driver would only install this type of battery when going on a long drive (i.e., supplement the existing Li battery infrastructure instead of replacing it)??? That way you would have the best of both worlds, quick charging lithium batteries for short trips and alum. battery for long trips. Yes, the downside is more space reserved for batteries instead of cargo, but I think I would be willing to work with that... I can easily see installing this battery right before a long trip and returning it after the trip is finished.
Since it can't be recharged, it seems like it's going to be more problematic than the idea of swapping a partially depleted rechargeable battery for a fresh one. Electric cars already cost more than gasoline automobiles, and if it's more than a few hundred dollars to swap anyways, it will *always* be cheaper to just use gasoline.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The really compelling part is that electricity stored in aluminium can be transported without any energy loss. Alumina can be found in most of the world, so if you have local access to cheap power you can create aluminium there, be it in Iceland or the Saharan desert. Then you can fill up a freighter with it and go nice and slow across the atlantic ocean and deliver it in the US or China.
I met these people last year and they talked about filling up a supertanker with Aluminium in Norway or Iceland and then having it connect to the US power grid and deliver electricity.
it's a lifetime. Who wrote the ad? A real estate agent?
These batteries shift the need for gasoline to the power grid. But most utility companies are pretty lazy and I wonder if we develop great electric cars in quantities whether the power lines will start to glow like the wires in my toaster. We can hope that power companies are investing in far more robust systems. Oddly this car issue may actually save the power companies as charging all these electric cars may mean that less people self supply all of their homes electric needs. A home with three electric cars all wanting to charge up at the same time is unlikely to do well on solar panels on the roof.
"It's like a block account, to complement your unlimited-but-low-retention one. Maybe not a great deal when you try to quantify it some in ways, but sometimes you'll be really happy to have it. For your car! "
An actual article about aluminum-air batteries with references lists the specific energy and specific power of similar items.
TFA says the Al-air battery weighs 100kg and estimates a Tesla S battery weighs 500kg, so this will REDUCE the weight of the battery by 400kg.
Yes, but they would have less range and be heavier.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Why use them as range extenders. Why not just pack enough in to do a year of driving the recycle the filling and put in new plates? If it costs less than about $1500 to do most people would be fine with it.
Converting Aluminium Oxide to Aluminium is energy intensive, but it does not contribute to greenhouse gasses. The power for the smelter is supplied by hydro dams.
Regarding renting for long trips. I see this suggestion quite often, but in the big picture, its not really as good a solution as it might sound.
I have rented a van occasionally for family trips. It is a real pain in the ass. Not just going through the motions of finding a decent deal that is not too far from home, but there is the extra trip to pick up the vehicle, or schedule them to pick up/drop off well in advance. Drop off can also be an inconvenience that requires another person to transport you or the vehicle.
Those may be minor inconveniences in certain terms, but the real problem is finding the vehicle I need when its a holiday or other 'peak' travel time. At many rental agencies, you can't even get a car if you try last minute and it is a peak period And at these times the rental price can be a lot higher than normal. If more and more people need cars for long trips, then it is going to become even more expensive and more difficult to get the car you need when you need it.
Add the simple fact that people generally feel more comfortable in their own car and the "just rent one' suggestion just doesn't seem like a good solution for the mass market.
That would be 15000km range per swap ... (possibly a pair 250lb battery for flexibility and possibly easier swapping tooling)
That might cut some of the swap overhead, but now is it cheap enough to compete with home rechargeables usage pattern
They mention a Tesla but WAS that the particular 'standard car' they tested it with to get that range?? What exactly is the 'standard car size ?
Are they bulkier than the normal equivalent rechargables ? - that could be an issue for bigger units
Do they (like the Lithium batteries) vary in performance with environmental temperature (their quoted range is best performance but may not be typical in place with highs and lows) ?
DO they degrade as they are used up or does their power output stay fairly constant or at least high enough for usage? (can you do 70mph the whole 3000km distance or by the end you are crawling at 30mph the last 1/4 of the charge???)
Do they put out sufficent power at a rate that the car could run solely off one (or are they counting on the lithium batter to take part of the load - to moderate usage surges?
(question might be is that 3000km continuous or with 'rest' period where it equalizes with the lithium cells to fulfill the required power output rate)
All kinds of potential issues they might not be bothering to illuminate us about.
Expenses for swapping, remaking, transporting to remake site, evironmental issues and ACTUAL carbon footprint (for other resources consumed which are also other environmental costs, as well as indirect carbon footprints..)
According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery
"the cost of aluminium as an anode can be as low as US$ 1.1/kg as long as the reaction product is recycled. "
If the cost is low (Means 3.7$/100km), I imagine that the process can be qualified as efficient
I'd have to swap this kind of battery only 3-4 times per year :) If it's reasonably priced, I'd love the idea.
Technically it's rechargeable since the only input is electricity. The fact that it's not rechargeable *at home* doesn't change that.
My last 2 cars have had oil changes every 10000 miles. 3000 miles is a waste.
The power for the smelter is supplied by hydro dams.
Is this for a newly constructed dam? Is there water available that would otherwise NOT be used to generate electricity?
Or is it that every kwh used for this would have instead been 'sold' on the open market and used for things like displacing coal/ng burning elsewhere? Because I find the latter possibility the most likely.
I don't read AC A human right
More like demonstrates disposable 300km backup battery. Whats up with journalists and zeros?
I lived and worked in Ottawa (Canada) for five years without owning a car. I rented a car fairly frequently on weekends, and when needed I rented a pickup truck, cargo van, cube van, etc.
It worked really well. I took the bike or bus to work and to downtown most of the time. When I needed a vehicle, I rented one. My rental costs were *far* less than it would have cost to license a vehicle and pay insurance on it, much less buying/leasing one.
Now I've got two kids and live in the prairies. Public transit sucks, so I own a smallish car. But I've still rented a van for a long trip with relatives.
I still consider it rechargeable due to the fact the the main input in remanufacturing is electricity, and that there are basically no toxic chemicals released during the remanufacturing process.
The fact that it can't be recharged *at home* doesn't change the fact that to a first approximation you put in electricity and get back a charged battery.
Or build it into a trailer that you can tow behind you on a long trip with all your gear.
It's black and I mine it out of the ground. It resembles coal, and you recharge your battery by simply throwing more in the battery / furnace in the trunk. You add water once in awhile, and your battery / furnace heats this water and makes steam. Your skyactiv2 water engine makes the car go. It's all very eco friendly as all the stuff comes from the earth and returns to the earth as various plant friendly gasses.
If I've done my numbers right, it should be 20 cents per mile for the cost of the bulk aluminum (assuming the entire 100kg is aluminum, which obviously isn't so). But that's a lot of aluminum/alumina to be shipping around in relatively small packages (even palletloads of batteries are small compared to bulk metals), and I suspect replacing the battery isn't as simple as dumping the alumina in the smelter and putting in fresh aluminum, so there's a lot of unknowns here.
It sounds like the cost is probably high and it's only meant for backup solution, but the one killer application I can think of would be the upcoming Formula-E http://www.fiaformulae.com/ races. There's no need to pit if you have enough power to run the entire race with one of these.
ChuckyG
This isn't really a "battery" any more so than gasoline is. Technically, you could recover the waste products from gasoline combustion, and using various chemical processes + energy turn it back into gasoline. But that doesn't mean your gas tank is a battery. Same goes for this thing. It is basically an engine burning aluminum. Traveling 3000 km in a car that gets 50 mpg requires of gasoline, so this has about the same energy density.
Really, no electric car needs more than 100 pounds of this backup battery. That would be more than enough to drive for a full day. In fact, 50 pounds might be enough emergency backup for any real use case -- as described, 50 pounds would give you about 600 km of extra emergency range.
Anyone who wants to drive 12 hours a day for multiple days ought to just rent a gasoline or diesel vehicle. Electric cars are for more normal usage, in which a battery like this gives you emergency flexibility.
Aside from startup price (about double), why not use Optima batteries in the tractor? They require no maintenance and they can survive overcharging, vibration, and produce very little corrosion. Energy density might be lower.
Oh, and on the topic of corrosion, a coating of petroleum jelly over the terminals and cable ends will block corrosion, but not electrical current.
Often in Error, Never in Doubt.
Vroom! Vroom!
(or whatever sound a whisper quiet electric Tesla makes while it screams down Highway 1 at 200 kph)
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
You better hope that they have a regular battery in there and use the primary cell (yes, it's not recharging) as a range extender for those few trips that exceed the secondary cell capacity.
In this case, it'll be slightly better than those cars like the BMW and Volt that are primarily electric but tow a gas generator with them to offer extended range operations. This one keeps the existing simple low-maintenance electric drivetrain without having to add all the gas engine support components to the car.
Well that's exactly what TFA says:
car runs on the lithium battery.
when doing short trips like comuting between home and work ( typical everyday trips are 50 km according to TFA ) you simply run of the battery and recharge it at home/at work.
when doing long road trip, instead of stoping at a fast charging station, the alumium kicks in and is used to top the regular lithium battery.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I believe they actually have audio kits to make your electric car make "vroom" noises, for those who can't bear to be without the nostalgic sounds...
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
Given the proposed use in the article I am guessing there are some kind of limitations with the technology. Either the aluminum-air battery is rather expensive, or produces uneven power or something that limits its usefulness. Otherwise they would be suggesting this be used as the primary power source for electric vehicles instead of a backup.
The battery is over 200 lbs, not something that is exactly easy for most people to move around let alone attach to a vehicle. Sure you could have a wheeled jack or something to hoist it into a slot of some kind but its still going to be a bit of a hassle. I get the feeling that the intent here is to remove a small amount of the battery capacity and put this in instead. That way you can drive your electric vehicle "normally" without worrying about range but still have at least most of the advantages of an electric vehicle (efficiency, "fuel" cost, environmental considerations, etc). The only catch is you would have to swap this thing probably once every few years (depending on use). And something tells me though that replacing one of these is going to be costly, otherwise they would be suggesting it as main form of power for the car instead of a backup.
I was thinking the same thing about Israel myself... It wasn't long ago when I heard of the company called PrimeSense which developed the 3D camera and sensing technology that is utilized in the Microsoft Kinect (XBOX 360)... This shit little country of 7 million people seems to be capable of doing so much that it begs the question what the hell are we doing wrong???
I call it the credit card minimum payment syndrome. If you charge people $1500 all at once, they'll freak out over it. But if you spread it out over time to $40/week (e.g. gas for your car), they're ok with it. Even though over a year that ends up being more expensive. It's how the credit card companies make money off of people who don't pay their bill in full every month.
I like the idea of going smaller, not bigger. Small enough to make them easily replaceable by the average person -- say, 5 kg. Assuming 100 kg gives you 3000 km, and assuming the weight scales linearly, then 5 kg would be 150 km. That would roughly double the range of something like a Nissan LEAF, for negligible cost (beyond the cost of the Al battery). Provide slots for four of them, and arrange to sell the batteries through fuel stations, and you could use an EV in exactly the same way you'd use a gasoline-powered car. Include a rechargeable batter for very short range trips, and for a place to store power recovered from regenerative braking, and you'd have a car that makes hybrids completely obsolete.
Looking at specific energies, I'm not sure what to think. Assuming 3 mi/kWh, 3000 kg for 1800 mi is 6 kWh, 22 mJ, per kg. That's pretty impressive. Almost two orders of magnitude higher than Li-ion, and very nearly 50% of the specific energy of gasoline! If someone seriously has a battery technology that can approach gasoline that closely... that's huge. Even if battery manufacture isn't particularly efficient, energy-wise, the ability to shift between energy sources may well offset it.
It seems too good to be true... which usually means it is.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Yeah, totally! And don't forget they were the only ones that thought of building huge walls to keep themselves safe from the zombies in World War Z... lol...
to drive 3000km on the hwy in my crappy dakota costs me roughly 1000$ in fuel. The rough math you guys put out shows this might be close to the price of one of these batteries. So its already a win for me though I have a very fuel inefficient vehicle.
OH THE IRONY HERE!
Say what the hell you mean instead of talking in implications. Getting bitchy about shit that is totally your fault though IS the American way! Dumbass.
I wouldn't want one of those, either, no matter how attractive Heinlein made them seem. Dealing with "big energy/business" is always a loss for the consumer. You can mitigate that, a bit, when there's a semblance of competition (5 brands of gasoline/diesel within 1/2 mile of my residence, but only one refinery in SoCal). If I have to buy a replacement aluminum fuel cell every 2 months, they'll impoverish me quickly.
I'm posting this AC because it's sexist. Sue me.
Emergency reserve! Ha! If my wife and most other women I know, know that there is another 1 extra mile to be had that requires them to do nothing, then you can bet your ass that they'll use it. This "reserve" will end up being the regular tank and I'll be the one who has to change the damned thing. I've heard many here guesstimating 10 changes a year on average. BS. I'll have to change it every week. Most women can't even be bothered with putting gas in the damned cars or even putting air in a tire that they can visibly see is flat. Nope fuck that, it's dirty, I'll mess my nails up and scuff my shoes. Nope I'll just drive it on the rim and let my hubby take care of it. This thing will have to be topped off with water. Well there's a disaster waiting to happen. If they won't bother checking the oil then they sure as hell aren't gonna put water in a battery. For heaven's sake they might get shocked!
There are many guys who are just as useless with cars, but really when it comes to being absolutely lazy about a vehicle, women take the cake. I guess because they baked it......ba dum tsh!
Hydro dams do contribute to greenhouse gasses. Look it up.
But leaving that minor pedantry aside, you need to do the math - how much energy do gas cars use today, and how much energy do hydro dams produce today.
This is yet another interesting non-solution. You'd be far better off with lithium ion cells, as Tesla Motors has already figured out.
Even the Optima batteries, while better than many other batteries, still do not like to be overcharged.
The battery in one of my older cars lasted 10 years, I think because every couple of months I would run a desulfate operation on it with a smart battery charger. I wish they would build that technology in to car charging systems since it only cost pennies and can greatly extend the life.
After I got my Tesla I put the 12v battery in my Prius (an Optima replacement for the OEM when the OEM died) on a battery minder which does this and has proper temperature compensation. I only drove my Prius a couple times a year.
I might add that Tesla has several patents dealing with metal oxide batteries and using them in combination with lithium ion batteries. They already have the automated battery swap technology as well.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
Interestingly enough, Tesla already has patents covering this hybrid battery approach. According to this patent it was filed back in 2010.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
Yeah they would be able to drive back and forth over 300 times, or until their car was targeted by militant rockets in Gaza. Way to go!
Every 3000 km you need to change the battery AND every month you need to refill the battery with tap water. Well here is some news:
a) one new battery a year ... and hope delivery infrastructure is in place and not everyone is rushing at the last minute to get it done like say, what happens with snow tires; and
b) tap water isn't free. It makes a noticeable dent in the family utility bill in my area of the country; and finally
c) tap water in -20 C is a challenge. Even my garage is too cold in winter, the water is cut to all external faucets when the temps start dipping to -5 C.
So nice idea but not for the average family.
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
That's $200 of raw aluminum. So at least $400 for the battery pack plus $100 to do the swap.
Your most likely looking at $500 for a 1000 mile battery.
So 4x more expensive then gas or standard battery pack. I don't see the oil companies quaking in fear.
Range extending technologies can not be viable if they cost more than an ICE.
Nasty stuff, Dihydrogen Monoxide, it's one of the strongest solvents known to man.
You can even find it in your tap water!
Israel is a much smaller area than the African, Asian, Australian, European, North American, or South American auto markets. And, like Japan, it is difficult to drive as far as many do in these other markets. So what may be a reasonable service life there may not be elsewhere for many drivers. 3,000 km is well less than the 5,000 - 7,500 miles (sorry, I'm in the U.S., but the meaning should still be clear) between recommended oil changes of a typical modern car. I don't see JiffyLube changing their name or services around this battery yet.
But, not all vehicles are used on the road. Possibly good for forklifts, golfcarts, business backup power supplies, and other devices.
Please keep up the research.
I think this is a game changer. Tesla definitely should be looking at this. Biggest drawback besides price to their going mass market is range fear -- people are scared to buy them for anything but city driving, despite the superchargers they are installing. I would think it's a lot cheaper for Tesla to invest in this company and adopt the batteries as backup than to build these superchargers everywhere. If I knew that I had a backup of 3000km, I wouldn't worry nearly as much about buying a limited range vehicle, and I'd just keep a gallon jug of distilled water in the 'trunk' in case i need to refill the battery and am not near a gas station or McDonalds.
Interesting that it comes out of Israel. They've been energy poor until recently.
It's a non-refillable fuel cell.
It burns/oxidizes aluminum to produce electricity and alumina ore.
Someone talking about the manufacturing process says it uses up/gives off carbon and fluorine -- so maybe we can get teflon, too?
--
The truth is, you never do get old enough to know better - Joe Martin
Israeli start-up? check. Spearheaded by guys from software and telecom, with relevant-tech experts at 2nd tier? check. Outlandish claims about EVs? check. Managed to land some big ‘Blue Chip’ money and partnerships? check.
Gee I wonder where I’ve heard this before
I hope it's real I really do.
Murphy was an optimist