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ESA Shows Off Quadcopter Landing Concept For Mars Rovers

Posted by samzenpus on from the drop-that-anywhere dept.

coondoggie writes Taking a page from NASA's rocket powered landing craft from its most recent Mars landing mission, the European Space Agency is showing off a quadcopter that the organization says can steer itself to smoothly lower a rover onto a safe patch of the rocky Martian surface. The ESA said its dropship, known as the StarTiger's Dropter is indeed a customized quadcopter drone that uses a GPS, camera and inertial systems to fly into position, where it then switches to vision-based navigation supplemented by a laser range-finder and barometer to lower and land a rover autonomously.

21 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. GPS on Mars by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 4, Funny

    Really, are you sure it isn't Galileo?

    1. Re:GPS on Mars by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Funny

      a customized quadcopter drone that uses a GPS, camera and inertial systems to fly into position .....

      Yup, hate to break it to you rocket scientists at NASA, but there is a slight flaw in this design for use on Mars.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    2. Re:GPS on Mars by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Interesting

      a customized quadcopter drone that uses a GPS, camera and inertial systems to fly into position .....

      Yup, hate to break it to you rocket scientists at NASA, but there is a slight flaw in this design for use on Mars.

      I'd suspect those rocket scientists planned to, oh, I dunno, put GPS satellites into orbit around mars prior to landing the rover?

    3. Re:GPS on Mars by faffod · · Score: 4, Informative

      a customized quadcopter drone that uses a GPS, camera and inertial systems to fly into position .....

      Yup, hate to break it to you rocket scientists at NASA, but there is a slight flaw in this design for use on Mars.

      I hate to break it to you, but ESA is the rocket scientists in Europe, not NASA....

    4. Re:GPS on Mars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      ESA, not NASA

    5. Re:GPS on Mars by RNLockwood · · Score: 2

      Well, the up front costs for the Martian GPS system will be high, that is to say, astronomical. May be some maintenance problems as well. Other than that and the near absence of an atmosphere it sounds good to go.

      --
      Nate
    6. Re:GPS on Mars by magarity · · Score: 2

      Umm, Mars is also a globe.

    7. Re:GPS on Mars by JWSmythe · · Score: 2

      That would be a cool trick. I think it will be a long long time before we see that.

      GPS, and GLONASS have 24 satellites for global coverage. Galileo has 27. Beidou has 10 right now, but has limited coverage. It will have 35 when it's fully operational.

      Most (all?) require ground stations to keep them updated, so it isn't just a matter of throwing some satellites up and having GPS on another planet. As I recall, GPS satellite service will degrade to unusable somewhere between 90 to 180 days. [insert obligatory apocalypse reference]

      Theoretically with GPS, you can lock with 3, but that assumes a highly clock on the receiver. Our phones and GPS receivers aren't that accurate, so we require 4 satellites.

      But I believe this was dumbed down for the casual reader, so they said "GPS". Using the known location of the orbital vehicle, gravitational center of mars, magnetic poles, and stars optically with a sextant, and using inertial sensors, they could put it down on a precise target.

      They might use GPS for test flights here, since we have the luxury on this rock. They aren't accounting for other things with their tests right now. Like the Mars average ground level air pressure is 0.087psi. The summit of Mount Everest is 4.89psi. The highest surface air pressure they'll get on Marswould be Hellas Planitia at 0.168psi.

      They're going to need some *huge* propellers on their quadcopter. Flying on Mars is like flying at just over 100,000 feet on Earth. The record for any propeller aircraft is the Boeing Condor UAV with no payload, at 67,028 feet.

      The record altitude for a helicopter in Earth's atmosphere is 40,820 feet, and it also got the record for the longest autorotation when the helicopter stopped flying. :)

      But other than navigation, and lack of atmospheric pressure, it could work fine. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
  2. European Probes by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Funny

    Being a European probe, once landed it will open a small cafe serving croissants and excellent espresso.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:European Probes by Nutria · · Score: 4, Funny

      Being a European probe, once landed it will ...

      Moan and bitch about Spirit & Opportunity spying on it, while in turn spying on economically valuable sectors of Spirit & Opportunity.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  3. This is not going to work. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Mars has an atmosphere. Barely - atmospheric pressure is 0.006 earth-atmospheres. Maybe 0.01 if the weather is right and at a low enough point. You'd get bugger-all lift from a 'copter, quad or otherwise. Even in the nice one-third G, that thing isn't flying. It's hard enough getting something down by parachute - those rovers have to be built to take a nasty impact, because even with a huge parachute and low gravity they still hit the ground hard.

    1. Re:This is not going to work. by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      That was my thought also. What's next, eighth ray buoyancy tanks?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re: This is not going to work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nor will GPS help much on Mars. It's like this is a thinly veined cover for developing a military drone for dropping materiel into a battle zone. Everything about it seems geared towards terrestrial use.

    3. Re:This is not going to work. by fche · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's ESA, not NASA, and the focus of the work was apparently the vision-based guidance system, not the quadcopter propulsion (which indeed would be absurd on Mars).

      http://www.esa.int/Our_Activit...

    4. Re:This is not going to work. by Warshadow · · Score: 3, Informative

      Some friends of mine did exactly this as a research project last year.They did some testing at NASA Langley using some of their low pressure testing facilities.

      It should be possible in a few years for sure and it may even be possible now. That being said, it's quite possibly the least efficient way to do anything anywhere, especially so on Mars. The rotor blades have to be enormous in order to generate enough lift. They also made some assumptions about materials used that aren't realistic right now, 5 years from now, probably, but not right now.

  4. Kilrathi stole yer name by danomatika · · Score: 2

    StarTiger's Dropter

    What the hell kind of name is that? Is this Wing Commander?

  5. Seven Minutes of Terror by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you've never watched "Seven Minutes of Terror," which explains the crazy but successful scheme to lower the Curiousity rover onto Mars, do yourself a favor and go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

    It's the best video the U.S. Government has ever produced.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
    1. Re:Seven Minutes of Terror by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      Go watch the last minute of Apollo 11 if you want "terror". Aldrin's heart rate went through the roof while Armstrong's kept plodding along normally, which just goes to show it's more scary being the passenger than the driver.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  6. Horrible Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is the official press release, which states the real goal of the project:

    Starting from scratch for the eight-month project, the Dropter team was challenged to produce vision-based navigation and hazard detection and avoidance for the dropship.

    The quadcopter was just a COTS stand-in for testing their software.

  7. Why can't it BE the rover? by AndyKron · · Score: 2

    Why can't it BE the rover?

  8. Possible, yes, but feasible? by gman003 · · Score: 2

    Helicopters work well on Earth for several reasons - first, our oxygen-bearing atmosphere means we don't have to carry our own oxidizer, just fuel, which makes it far more mass-efficient. Then our thick atmosphere means you get a lot more lift for a given amount of airspeed.

    I have no doubt that you could get a rotorcraft to work on Mars. It's a question of whether it will work better than alternatives - such as the rockets used by Curiosity. But in essence this will have to be a rocket-powered rotorcraft as well - either rocket-like gas generators, or electric motors would be needed to work in the oxygenless environment, and I don't see electric being feasible in this situation. It then comes down to "is it more efficient to use the fuel+oxidizer to turn a rotor at supersonic speeds, or use it as a rocket?"

    I'm no rocket scientist, but it seems to me that the simple extra mass of the rotor is a big strike against it being a good alternative to rockets, never mind the thinner atmosphere.