Slashdot Mirror


World Health Organization Calls For Decriminalization of Drug Use

An anonymous reader writes: We've known for a while: the War on Drugs isn't working. Scientists, journalists, economists, and politicians have all argued against continuing the expensive and ineffective fight. Now, the World Health Organization has said flat out that nations should work to decriminalize the use of drugs. The recommendations came as part of a report released this month focusing on the prevention and treatment of HIV. "The WHO's unambiguous recommendation is clearly grounded in concerns for public health and human rights. Whilst the call is made in the context of the policy response to HIV specifically, it clearly has broader ramifications, specifically including drug use other than injecting. In the report, the WHO says: 'Countries should work toward developing policies and laws that decriminalize injection and other use of drugs and, thereby, reduce incarceration. ...Countries should ban compulsory treatment for people who use and/or inject drugs." The bottom line is that the criminalization of drug use comes with substantial costs, while providing no substantial benefit.

78 of 474 comments (clear)

  1. Finally! by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is one of the most messed-up issues in the history of humanity. Hopefully we'll see an end to the insane war on drugs in our lifetime! Drugs are made more dangerous by being illegal, I don't know why so few of us in the United States didn't learn the lesson from alcohol prohibition.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:Finally! by wisnoskij · · Score: 5, Informative

      It might cause a few deaths but it also sustains the multi billion dollar prison industry and employs well over 1 million people in the US alone, and that it just counting the lawfully employed.

      The government profits from illegal drugs even more than drug cartels do.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    2. Re:Finally! by David_Hart · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It might cause a few deaths but it also sustains the multi billion dollar prison industry and employs well over 1 million people in the US alone, and that it just counting the lawfully employed.

      The government profits from illegal drugs even more than drug cartels do.

      The reality is that law enforcement, and other areas of the government, used the war on drugs as justification for increased budget, manpower, weapons, laws (search & seizure), etc. Now that the justification has moved towards terrorism, both real and based on hype, and the drug war isn't needed any more. In fact, most law enforcement agencies now have bigger and more expensive toys today (i.e. drones, highly weaponized SWAT teams, etc.) based on terrorism.

      As you said, the one lobby that NEEDS the war on drugs to continue is the US prison industry. From Wikipedia "Drug related charges accounted for more than half the rise in state prisoners. The result, 31 million people have been arrested on drug related charges, approximately 1 in 10 Americans." Granted, a good portion of this includes people who are violent criminals and are also booked on drug charges. However, there can be no denying that if 1 in 10 people are going to jail based on a single type of crime, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate public policies and whether these activities should be considered crimes.
       

    3. Re:Finally! by itsenrique · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It might then surprise you to learn that both Heroin (not in the USA *presently* but in Europe) and methamphetamine are already legal in certain forms for certain diseases. Heroin is used for end-of-life cancer treatment from what I understand in some countries because it is more powerful than morphine for pain relief. Methamphetamine is prescribed for weight loss sometimes still (although is efficacy compared to surgeries is questionable) and for extreme cases of ADD. It is designed to be used orally however and not smoked or injected.

    4. Re:Finally! by rholtzjr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree with your comments on this as well. What would we do with all the prison space currently housed by drug-related occupants? That would put a heavy dent in the income of the organizations that manage the prison systems (which are mostly cronies of the politicians). And once the dent is made in their profits, they would lobby to elevate the penalty of some other illegal act to put the profits back into their pockets, say jaywalking or driving while texting is a now mandatory 90 days in prison.

    5. Re:Finally! by strikethree · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hopefully we'll see an end to the insane war on drugs in our lifetime!

      No no no! If you are even slightly "high" you can not be pure and one with God. We absolutely MUST fight against the recreational use of chemicals, any chemicals, that might in any way lead to a sense of euphoria. Life is pain. Pain is suffering. It is only through suffering that we can be close to God. Drugs and drug use is absolute evil. We must go to ANY means necessary to prevent their use.

      Drugs are made more dangerous by being illegal

      Who cares? It is only the evil people that will be affected. It will afflict them with suffering and as we already established, it is only through suffering that we can be close to God.

      I don't know why so few of us in the United States didn't learn the lesson from alcohol prohibition.

      In the 1920s we did not have Echelon and TIA. The NSA and FBI have it all covered now. You can expect a reinstatement of prohibition rather soon. The only lesson that was learned from Prohibition is that without effective enforcement, the evil sinners will continue to seduce the righteous.

      Look, everything is in place for 100% enforcement. All of the sinners will be removed from society so that the righteous will not be distracted from becoming closer to God through suffering. 100% focus on work will ensure that the righteous never stray from the True Path. There will be Heaven on Earth... or Nuclear Apocalypse. It is up to you as to what happens. If you follow the one True Path, there will be pleasure in the afterlife when you have finished toiling and suffering in this fallen world. If you sin, this fallen world will be destroyed so that all may meet their Final Judgement soon.

      All of this absurd talk of weakening the battle for your soul is the work of the devil. The fight will not merely continue, it will intensify! The fate of the entire world is at stake.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    6. Re:Finally! by wisnoskij · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Granted, a good portion of this includes people who are violent criminals and are also booked on drug charges.

      But that number does not include the likely bigger number of people driven into other crimes because of the illegal nature of their drug addiction. The illegal drug trade not only puts some mostly innocent people in a compromised position, but also fuels the vast majority of crime.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    7. Re:Finally! by beelsebob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem with smoking is not that it harms your health, it's that it harms other people's health, and makes other people's environment less pleasant to be in. That's why smoking is (typically) banned in public places, or near public buildings, but not banned in the comfort of your own home (that said, even there, it can have severe impacts on children/other members of your family).

    8. Re:Finally! by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      It might cause a few deaths but it also sustains the multi billion dollar prison industry and employs well over 1 million people in the US alone

      None of those jobs help the economy. Why should people be employed in occupations that have no benefit to society whatever and are in fact detrimental to society?

      The government profits from illegal drugs even more than drug cartels do.

      Colorado's pot legalization and the multi-billion dollar alcohol industry shows that governments profit a lot more from legal, regulated drugs than outlawing them.

      I've known drug addicts, and the WHO is also right about compulsory addiction treatment; compulsory treatment flat out doesn't work. The addict has to want to stop, and it's very hard even when they want to. Alcoholics and other drug addicts relapse more often than not after treatment.

      However, should they ever invent the fictional drug in the novel I'm writing (see my journal, the first crude draft is being posted there) I sure hope it's not legal!

    9. Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have a 20's Sears catalog with heroin for sale fucking made by Bayer.

    10. Re:Finally! by Fjandr · · Score: 2

      They profit from them, but do not derive the same sort of power from them. That's why politicians and cops and prosecutors and corrections officers love criminalization of things everyday people do ... well ... every day.

    11. Re:Finally! by Fjandr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if that's the case, how is any of that worse than what we have now?

    12. Re:Finally! by murkwood7 · · Score: 2

      I think the above post is underated

      --
      - X/Y -
    13. Re:Finally! by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I had a silly idea regarding this while visiting California last year. If you've ever walked the streets of either SF or LA at night, you will undoubtedly have found an experience with the homeless similar to that of a zombie movie, except instead of chanting "brains" they're chanting "change". So, once the war on drugs has been ended, some prisons could be converted to compulsory overnight housing: if you do not have a permanent address, and are found unconscious in a public location (either due to sleep or whatever), you get a free bus ride to a former prison for a good night's sleep. The same buses could take you back to the city you were picked up in the morning if you so desire, or you can stick around for 3 hots and a cot (maybe some job counseling and medical care), grab a later bus, whatever. The only prison industry jobs lost would be guard-related. All the administrative, catering, medical, and transport jobs would be retained. Some homeless people have a slightly better life (many of them are too proud/stupid/mentally ill to ask for help but if forced, they'd accept it), and American cities would have an overall better quality of life for all involved.

    14. Re:Finally! by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

      I would except the recreational drugs have to meet the same USDA and FDA standards for purity and safety for foodstuffs, legal drugs, and alcoholic beverages. In short, the cannabis you can buy legally must NOT have any potentially dangerous additives and THC levels per gram of cannabis have to be standardized. In short, welcome to the real world if you want to grow legal cannabis.

    15. Re:Finally! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't see a contradiction (although I'm not an American). I have no problems with people smoking, snorting, injecting, or otherwise consuming any drugs that they want. I do object if they blow smoke in public areas or leave needles (especially used ones) lying around in public places.

      I would be in favour of banning smoking anything in public places (including places of work) and permitting people to take any drugs that they want in their own home. There are some difficult areas (for example, should people with children be allowed to smoke whatever they like at home around their children?) but the general rule of thumb should be that you can do whatever you want to your own body and mind, just don't do it to anyone else.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    16. Re:Finally! by transporter_ii · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If someone breaks into a house, they should be in jail for breaking into a house. I know plenty of people who do drugs and *don't* break into houses or commit other crimes. Also, the high prices are driven by the prohibition of drugs. If they were more affordable, it becomes much less of an issue to break into houses or cars to get money.

      --
      Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
    17. Re:Finally! by sjames · · Score: 2

      I haven't heard much about shootouts over tax-free cigarettes. Not a lot of gang activity there either. Our jails aren't filling up with cigarette smugglers and people caught in possession of untaxed cigarettes.

      The government is hardly the enemy of the cartels. The last thing the cartels want is an end to prohibition. It would destroy their obscene profits and ultimately put them out of business.

      As far as use goes, it might increase a little, but it's not morals preventing most of the drug use now. If it was, people would be even more upset about the damned coke heads on Wall Street and in the *AA. It's mostly that people don't want to be addicts. I doubt that will change.

    18. Re: Finally! by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Are they? Or is it rather the crap that is used to turn a gram of $substance into ten for higher profits?

      There are drugs that are dangerous. No doubt about that. But one really has to wonder how many deaths are actually due to them not being available in a clean, regulated and reliable fashion. How many drug overdoses are due to addicts not knowing just how "potent" the stuff they buy is, and hence how much of it they should take? How many drug related diseases and deaths are due to the various shit cut in to maximize the profit and unsafe, unsanitary ways they are delivered?

      I have a friend working with an organization that "tests" the drugs you can buy. They're basically working on a "don't ask don't tell" base, i.e. they don't give a shit where you got it from and they don't care what you do with it. What they do is analyze what you got and tell you what it is. You'd be surprised if not horrified to learn just WHAT kind of shit is being mixed into drugs. In a nutshell, the additives are usually BY FAR more dangerous than the actual drug itself.

      To put it simply, making various drugs that are now "street only" available legally and reliably, regulated by law with strict requirements for companies producing them to ensure quality would by some margin lower drug related health problems. Even if consumption tripled.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    19. Re:Finally! by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      The state supplies them with food, why not drugs? If they want to waste their life, why not help them?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    20. Re:Finally! by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      What happened to "forge your own destiny" and personal responsibility?

      It may surprise you, but "poor" people are not necessarily dumb people. It may even more surprise you that there are no people (at least I never ever met any) who injected Heroin without absolutely and positively knowing what this will do to them. Yes, people KNOW that they will become addicted to the crap and STILL think it's more attractive to at least escape their life for the 15 minutes that will maybe give them.

      When you're at THAT point, there's little any law can change. If you want people to not reach for drugs, you have to give them first and foremost a reason to.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re: Finally! by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Well, by that logic pretty much anything should be outlawed that you can do to your body. Including trans fats and crunch chicken skin. Both are very dangerous, especially in large quantity.

      But... why draw the line at all? How is it my prerogative to tell you how to live and whether, how and when to kill yourself slowly by eating, drinking, snorting or even shooting something that's not healthy for you? And why no ads? Hell, I MISS the ads for cigarettes and booze! They were by some margin the most entertaining ones. Why? Because they advertised having a good time, that's after all what that stuff is there for.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    22. Re:Finally! by HiThere · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've never been sure about the truth of that argument. OTOH, it seems to be true about cocaine addiction. Many cocaine addicts start out quite wealthy, and some continue to be so, but many appeat not to. OTOH, some start out as already failures. Many never seem to get violent, but certainly some do.

      Still, if cocaine were cheap enough, perhaps people would kill themselves before they begain harming others. And banning it causes so many additional problems that I think legalizing it is the lesser evil. But it should certainly be illegal to advertise it.

      One drug that I think probably *should* be illegal is PCP. OTOH, I doubt that having it illegal is a big problem. Few people appear to be attracted to it. The reason that I think it probably should be illegal is that reports are that it causes people to become excessively violent without warning. (I.e., I don' t think it should be illegal to protect the users against themselves, but rather to protect bystanders.)

      All that said, even if drugs were legalized that wouldn't solve the problem, it would merely mean that the main suffers would be the people who were addicts, not everyone else. Even then, if there were purity requirements, i.e. protection against contaminants, then the drugs would probably be not only cheaper, but less harmful. However it's definitely important to realize that "less harmful" doesn't mean "harmless". If you want to understand what removing legalization would result in, I recommend that you read "Diary of a Drug Fiend" by Aliestar Crowley. This is apparently a pretty accurate reportage by someone who was quite intelligent, if a bit unconventional ("Wickedest man in the World" -- John Bull).

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    23. Re:Finally! by curious.corn · · Score: 2

      The Brits did it in the '800... it turned out to be not that idyllic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...

      --
      Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
    24. Re:Finally! by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Not standardized, but labelled. Alcohol comes in various proofs, not at a standard proof. But it's labelled. This is reasonable.

      As for safety...I don't think a drug being dangerous (to the user) is reason to forbid its sale. It might be reason to forbid it being an ingredient in something else, I'd need to think about that for awhile. But the danger needs to be clearly stated on the label.

      What I'm not sure about at all is which drugs one should be allowed to advertise. I'm not sure that ANY should, but where do you draw the line? There isn't a reasonable sharp distinction. And experts rate tobacco as harder to quit than either alcohol or heroin, but I'm not sure that's true. Nobody has had a chance to compare legal heroin withdrawal with tobacco withdrawal, and the illegal heroin is nearly guaranteed to be impure.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    25. Re:Finally! by dcollins117 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That would put a heavy dent in the income of the organizations that manage the prison systems (which are mostly cronies of the politicians).

      Everyone making money off the status quo will fight tooth and nail to maintain it. That's a given. New crimes are being defined all the time, the one that pops into my mind first is unauthorized use of computers. And just try to exercise your first amendment right to protest within earshot of the president.

      Since Orwell's 1984 has been spot on so far, my guess is that the next activity to be made illegal is any attempt to maintain privacy. Seems to be the way the winds are blowing, anyway.

    26. Re:Finally! by mattwarden · · Score: 2

      Occam's razor. No need for conspiracy theories. Drugs are illegal because the vast majority of voters want them illegal, except in very recent times marijuana. And, no shocker, as soon as public opinion on marijuana shifted, so did the laws start to shift. And, no shocker, where public opinion shifted first, the laws shifted first. And where they have not yet shifted sufficiently, the laws have not shifted.

      No need for conspiracy theories.

    27. Re:Finally! by dryeo · · Score: 2

      What evidence is there that smoking is healthier then using heroin? As far as I know there is none. Heroin when used correctly will make you constipated and sleepy, cigarettes will increase your odds of dieing by a large amount. They are both addicting with cigarettes usually being considered worse to quit but being addicted is not unhealthy as long as you have a steady supply which is the reason that highly intelligent, wealthy heroin users are productive members of society whereas poor heroin users are forever looking at getting their next hit.
      If someone is in pain, why should they not have access to a substance that allows them to better function as well as allowing them to handle their pain.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    28. Re:Finally! by Mr.CRC · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "One drug that I think probably *should* be illegal is PCP. OTOH, I doubt that having it illegal is a big problem. Few people appear to be attracted to it. The reason that I think it probably should be illegal is that reports are that it causes people to become excessively violent without warning."

      1. If other, less intense drugs were legal, the attractiveness of PCP would be even lower.

      2. It is highly likely that the so called reports that it causes people to become excessively violent are because, being illegal, people were confronted by police while on PCP, and freaked out. If PCP were legal and you didn't get arrested just for acting odd, then these people would not have freaked out and acted violently. Thus, the popular beliefs about PCP heavily distorted by confirmation bias. They are basically pure propaganda.

      3. In a world of legal drugs where you can purchase PCP at a pharmacy or chemical supplier simply by signing a waiver that relieves the seller of any liability for the effects of your taking it, then information about the REAL effects, dangers, and value of doing and particular drug would be more freely available and factual. It is unlikely that PCP would be frequently used except by a tiny fraction of the population.

    29. Re:Finally! by Mr.CRC · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are brainwashed with completely false propaganda.

      You can live a normal lifetime addicted to pure heroin, even if injected, if using sterile needles and proper procedures, and suffer practically no adverse health effects. You can even hold a job. Just not one involving safety-critical activities like operating heavy machinery.

      The same cannot be said about tobacco. It is far more harmful than heroin.

      Even meth isn't so bad. If it were legal, more people would consume it orally and get educated about how to maintain their nutrition and avoid destructive binges and loss of sleep. They would become workaholics and help the economy. Over-doing it with meth for a long period of time IS harmful, but I'm certain that if it were legal, the harm would drop dramatically compared to what we have now with impure garbage consumed by people who are forced into a criminal lifestyle to get it, which is the reason for much of the harm. It is fully possible also to be a meth addict, yet manage it so that it isn't harmful to the point of severely shortening one's life or damaging to one's mental health.

      Meth and cocaine addiction are actually self-limiting for most people. I went berzerk with coke for a few years, then one day decided that I would never touch the crap again because I never wanted to feel that depressed again during the come down. And that was the end of it. The same thing happened with meth. Ultimately, I decided to never take ANY rec. drugs again, including alcohol. They just aren't the answer for me anymore, and have remained out of my life for 26 years.

      The hardest thing to quit though, was smoking. Fortunately I did quit, because that would probably have killed me with cancer. Same cannot be said about heroin, meth, cocaine, marijuana, LSD, or any other banned drug.

      Alcohol can give you cirrhosis, and cause life threatening seizures upon withdrawal.

      It's totally f*ing surreal, that the truly most harmful drugs: alcohol and tobacco, are the only ones that are legal! What a hell-hole of nonsensical contradictions we have created.

    30. Re:Finally! by Mr.CRC · · Score: 2

      Yes. What we do not understand, and it takes a great deal of empathic aptitude to consider this honestly, is that it is possible for some people's neuro-biological constitution to basically preclude them from ever experiencing much happiness or anything other than misery, boredom, and despair, from normal, everyday activities and forms of entertainment that are societal norms.

      So they seek out drugs. These are people that perhaps cannot be fixed. We can't just shoot them (as some would advocate) or we would reduce ourselves to barbarians.

      I cannot fathom doing violence (criminalization of drugs) to such people to stop them from pursuing their chosen ends, as long as they aren't committing a crime against me. And the most likely cause for them to commit a criminal act is the high price of illegal drugs.

      Why can't we just leave them alone, unless they reach out for help?

    31. Re:Finally! by cavebison · · Score: 2

      Drugs are made more dangerous by being illegal

      Not really, it depends what you mean by "illegal". Bear with me... Personally think illegality sends a good signal for kids - drugs are bad, m'key? - but the *punishment* is the question. Allowing police to arrest a user means these things:

      1. For young people, parents get to know what their child is doing
      2. Police can get the name of the *dealer* from the user
      3. The user can be placed in mandatory rehab as "punishment".
      4. If rehab isn't necessary, then the only punishment is a small fine.

      User gets a slap on the wrist (or rehab) but police get the info they need. What's wrong with that?

      If it's not illegal, it makes finding the dealers more difficult for police. PLUS - and I think this is the worst aspect of making them legal - drugs suddenly become a *legitimate business*. And we all know how ethically business behaves once they can deal in an addictive product.

  2. The war on drugs failed only.... by Tanuki64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...if its goal was to prevent drug usage.

    1. Re:The war on drugs failed only.... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...if its goal was to prevent drug usage.

      It's been a rousing success for the law enforcement and prison industries though!

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    2. Re:The war on drugs failed only.... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Talk to the Colombians and Mexicans to see how well that particular strategy has worked out

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:The war on drugs failed only.... by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      And even that I'd call blaming the victim. As I pointed out elsewhere in the thread, there is by now pretty much NOBODY that doesn't know, no later than at age 10, what Heroin does to you. It's absolutely addictive, it WILL ruin your life. People KNOW that. It's not that they're too stupid to understand that rather simple message. People FULLY AND ABSOLUTELY know what they are going to do the moment they stick that needle into their arm the very first time. And STILL they do it. Because that 15 minutes buzz is STILL worth it to them.

      Take a moment to ponder just HOW fucked up your life has to be that you consider escaping it for 15 minutes into a dream wonderland is worth the shit you have to deal with afterwards. A friend of mine is a social worker. And since they cut his supervision, I pretty much turned into his "soul wastebasket". So I get to hear a lot of rather unpleasant things.

      If you actually want to solve the drug problem, you have to solve society. As long as you have people who consider a slow, painful and very ugly death (that they KNOW about, they SEE it, they are already in the circles when H enters their life, so to speak. Even if they don't believe the crap told to them at schools, they FUCKING KNOW what they get into by first hand witness information!) a viable alternative to the hell their life is, your problem is not some greyish-white dust.

      Your problem is a social one.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. No public drug use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No ads, no public displays of drug use, no public drug use, not even in designated public venues, and no brown paper bag bullshit either. Keep it private. No operating heavy machinery or participation in traffic while intoxicated. But yeah, the drug use itself should not be criminal.

    1. Re:No public drug use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Disagree. The point of legalizing drugs is to prevent an underground supply. The rationale is quite simple: You're not going to stop people from taking drugs. Someone is going to profit from supplying those drugs, so there is either going to be a legal source or an illegal source. A legal source is better than an illegal source.

      Anyone selling drugs should be required to inform the users about the risks and consequences. If you still want to take up an addictive drug, that's your own damn fault. It's been proven over and over again that you can't prevent people from taking drugs, so that cannot be the objective. The rational objective is to protect others from the effects of drug use (no second hand smoke, keeping intoxicated people off the streets, etc.)

    2. Re:No public drug use by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      Just banning In App Purchases would be a big move at this point in time.

      Look at the descriptions in mobile games these days. One of the things many, many games boast of is being 'the most addictive game in the app store.' Like it's a good thing. A measure of success for the game's publisher.

    3. Re:No public drug use by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      Keep your paws off my coffee mug.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    4. Re:No public drug use by itsenrique · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No ads, no public displays of drug use, no public drug use, not even in designated public venues, and no brown paper bag bullshit either. Keep it private. No operating heavy machinery or participation in traffic while intoxicated. But yeah, the drug use itself should not be criminal.

      No ads? OK, sounds reasonable. No public display? OK, we don't allow this for alcohol EXCEPT in designated venues. Do you see a problem with pot cafes? Or methadone clinics? If by public you mean on the street OK, but if you mean no consumption anywhere except the home this contradicts how we treat alcohol. No brown paper bag bullshit? Well you don't usually drink drugs, so OK. No operating machinery or participating in traffic while intoxicated? OK, although proving this for many drugs is much more challenging than alcohol. Example: marijuana.

    5. Re:No public drug use by jeIIomizer · · Score: 3, Informative

      No ads, no public displays of drug use, no public drug use, not even in designated public venues, and no brown paper bag bullshit either.

      Well, if you don't want to do any of that or pay attention to it, then feel free not to. However, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be banned.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:No public drug use by jeIIomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The rationale behind "not in public" isn't that I don't like it but that drug use has significant deteriorating effects on society and can thus not be allowed to become normal social behavior.

      Bullshit. Any truly free country would not infringe upon people's fundamental liberties in the name of safety. Also, have you ever heard of personal responsibility? If someone sees you doing drugs and wants to try them too, then that is *their* problem and no one else's. And I think there are constitutional problems with the drug war, and constitutional problems with banning public drug use.

      I have a better idea: Stop trying to control people and just leave them alone. That way, maybe we'll move closer to becoming 'the land of the free and the home of the brave' rather than 'the land of the unfree and the home of the worthless cowards who sacrifice freedom for safety.'

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    7. Re:No public drug use by znrt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, I see a problem with pot cafes. Drug use is not OK

      drug use IS OK. drug abuse is not.

      I see a problem with views like yours which shift the blame on the substance, righteously ignoring the root problems which are social and educational. this view solves nothing, perpetuates the real problems and just supports the status in quo in keeping the prohibition circus going.

    8. Re:No public drug use by anagama · · Score: 2

      Companies should not be permitted to profit from the sale of addictive substances for recreational purposes.

      Is coffee recreational or a building block of life? Either way, why do you hate coffee so much?

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    9. Re:No public drug use by Ultra64 · · Score: 2

      >Drug use is not OK

      Why?

      >A concentration of drug use...will have a serious negative impact on the local community.

      Why?

    10. Re:No public drug use by jeIIomizer · · Score: 2

      I don't want your pot smoke filling my house every night.

      If it's your house, then exercise your rights over your private property and make them leave.

      I want to be able to go to the park and not have to breathe it in.

      Unless you own the park, you're out of luck. Sorry. There's plenty of things I don't want to see--including your comment--but I don't think I can just infringe on other people's freedoms just because I don't like something. I don't want to smell cigarette or pot smoke any more than you probably do, but I deal with it.

      My experience from living in a place with legalized marijuana is that it is great for people who smoke and not great for people who don't, and I think having laws (and more importantly, proper enforcement of the laws), like no public use, which protect non-users is a good idea.

      What about laws that protect users from authoritarians like yourself?

      Look, if you don't want to live in 'the land of the free,' why not move elsewhere? There are plenty of countries that strive to be authoritarian hellholes, and you'd fit right in.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    11. Re:No public drug use by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, I see a problem with pot cafes. Drug use is not OK, just inevitable

      What about cafes that serve coffee? You know, the beverage containing a highly addictive drug? Should we ban those too?

      The issue with pot cafes is that it's hard for people to work in them without being exposed to passive smoke, but if you can address that then I don't see the difference between them and normal cafes.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:No public drug use by sjames · · Score: 2

      It's expensive because of sin taxes or black market status. Eliminate those and it's not at all expensive.

      Excessive use is harmful to health, but so is jogging in the city. Your other arguments were predicated on being expensive.

  4. Safe injection sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We're seeing more places around the world with so called "safe injection sites" which seem to be helping people's safety. I've often wondered if it idea was taken a step further. Create safe haven drug houses, drugs are free, safe from impurities etc provided by the government (likely far cheaper than current policing costs). But you have to stay in a small padded room with nothing to do until the drugs leave your system, and be monitored by nurses. Would they be very popular? Would this all but eliminate the illegal drug trade if drugs were free and safe? I would think for all but the worst addicts, the novelty would be gone, and they would hopefully move on in life.

    1. Re:Safe injection sites by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've been thinking along these lines for a few years now. Make the drugs legal, regulate them, and possibly even have the government sell them. Use taxes on drugs to fund rehab programs. Give sex workers a way to get out from drug induced slavery. Cut the head off the cocaine cartel by growing it here or importing it from someone else. Take a blow to the coffers of street gangs as well as more organized criminals.

      The obvious number one downside is the potential for an increase in number of addicts. I never really had the answer for how to counter that. Social stigma? Government monitoring program on those who buy from the "drug store" that encourages rehabilitation? But maybe if you make the harder drugs extra affordable in an outpatient setting like you describe, it offers a way out for the addicts, while making it inconvenient for dabblers and college kids to get into the really nasty stuff. You could still sell (and tax, of course) the less addictive/destructive drugs, as you would alcohol and tobacco.

      And bonus points if this reduces violent crime rates by people trying to get money to fuel their need.

    2. Re:Safe injection sites by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 2

      I've been thinking along these lines for a few years now. Make the drugs legal, regulate them, and possibly even have the government sell them. Use taxes on drugs to fund rehab programs. Give sex workers a way to get out from drug induced slavery. Cut the head off the cocaine cartel by growing it here or importing it from someone else. Take a blow to the coffers of street gangs as well as more organized criminals.

      The obvious number one downside is the potential for an increase in number of addicts. I never really had the answer for how to counter that.

      The number of addicts decreases when you legalize drugs. No need to speculate, look at places that have actually legalized drugs. It seems counterintuitive, but the reason is pretty simple. Right now if you're addicted to something and you seek help you have to basically admit to being a criminal in order to get help. If drugs are legal - no problem. So people are more likely to ask for help when they don't have to risk jail by asking for help. Makes sense when you think about it.

  5. Re:It's finally time to do it by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is, once we get away from pot and other light drugs, the heavier ones have a pretty significant net economic cost. Historically, before our modern drug laws went insane, trying to get drugs out of a local community was a response to local economic collapses when things like opium were introduced to a region. Physically addictive drugs can be pretty devastating to a community as more workers exit the pool and more resources go to taking care of the addicts.

  6. Re:It's finally time to do it by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, this is the old "Reefer Madness" mentality, meant to make happy both the Puritans and the prison profiteers while keeping the politicians in an elevated state of power.

    What actually happens, and Portugal ran this experiment with a sample size of over 8 million people during the past decade, is that when drug use is decriminalized, the usage rate quickly falls to about half.

    Most of those are people who are no longer afraid to seek treatment. Some are folks who wind up court-ordered to get treatment, and a few were drug users who were only doing it because drugs seemed cool because they were illegal.

    At the end, though, the incontrovertible fact is that the community has half the number of drug users as it did under Prohibition. Prohibitionists are responsible for a doubling of the drug usage rate in the community. Does that seem counter-intuitive? So what? The data is in.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  7. Re:Can we have some Facts please? by wisnoskij · · Score: 5, Informative

    Relevant quote: "I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before." - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  8. Re:Can we have some Facts please? by gweihir · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unfortunately, these are not facts, but pure fantasy. First, outlawing drugs does not reduce their usage. The alcohol prohibition indicates that the converse is true. Hence this prohibition increases harm. Second, the harm done is massively increased by outlawing drugs. Most drugs are actually relatively cheap to produce in medical-grade quality, with clear instructions and standardized quality, yet the dangerous low-quality stuff on the market fetches premium prices that then go to criminal enterprises. This situation is purely crated by illegality. Finally, people that are in prison for no good reason are unproductive and cost money as well.

    The whole thing is nothing but a massively misanthropic effort by religious and other authoritarians to prevent people from deciding about their own lives and to punish those that have other ideas as heavily as possible. It has zero intention to reduce negative effects and zero effect in that direction. It does increase negative effects massively though.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  9. John D. Rockefeller, Jr. by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Informative

    When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognized. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before.

    - John D. Rockefeller, Jr., 1932

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  10. Re:Doctors @ WHO by rossdee · · Score: 3, Funny

    There hasn't been a good one since David Tennant

  11. There is no magic bullet by Calavar · · Score: 2

    Ending prohibition didn't kill the mob. They just switched from bootlegging to trafficking narcotics, and they reached the height of their power in the 50s and 60s, long after the prohibition ended. In the same way, while legalizing marijuana might reduce crime here in the US, cartels in Mexico are Too Big to Fail. They won't pack up their things and head home quietly if marijuana is legalized; they'll just start peddling something new.

    As for legalizing highly addictive drugs like cocaine and heroin, I don't see how decriminalizing them good possibly be a good idea. The addiction rate for these drugs is 2.5 to 3 times that of alcohol. Heroin, etc. are dangerous and they weren't just banned because of moralizers.

    1. Re:There is no magic bullet by jeIIomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Heroin, etc. are dangerous and they weren't just banned because of moralizers.

      The 'land of the free and the home of the brave' would not violate people's fundamental liberties for safety. These things are banned because of freedom-hating scumbags who despise the thought of living in a truly free country, and yet pretend that that is their goal. But we have the TSA, the NSA's mass surveillance, constitution-free zones, free speech zones, protest permits, DUI checkpoints, mass warrantless surveillance, unrestricted border searches, and a number of other policiies or agencies that violate the constitution and people's fundamental rights (thanks to people like you), so of course we've never been 'the land of the free.'

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:There is no magic bullet by pauljlucas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As for legalizing highly addictive drugs like cocaine and heroin, I don't see how decriminalizing them [could] possibly be a good idea.

      As someone else pointed out: as counter-intuitive as it might be, the data is in since Portugal ran the experiment.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    3. Re:There is no magic bullet by Calavar · · Score: 2

      But we have the TSA, the NSA's mass surveillance, constitution-free zones, free speech zones, protest permits, DUI checkpoints, mass warrantless surveillance, unrestricted border searches, and a number of other policiies or agencies that violate the constitution and people's fundamental rights (thanks to people like you)

      So the fact that you need a prescription from a doctor to get penicillin, is that a violation of your fundamental rights? Hell yeah, I should be allowed to eat penicillin and Oxycontin for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. No goddamn elitist doctor is going to tell me otherwise. Same with BAC limits for driving. I know how much alcohol I can handle and no goddamn state trooper is going to tell me that .08 is the "legal limit." Lets do away with speed limits and other traffic regulations as well. All they do is provide a source of revenue for corrupt police departments. And what about nerve agents? Why can't I buy any? My right to mustard gas is protected under the second amendment dammit!

      Don't accuse me of straw-manning because that is exactly what you did when you conflated a heroin ban with warrantless wiretapping. There is such a thing as a reasonable ban.

    4. Re:There is no magic bullet by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      As for legalizing highly addictive drugs like cocaine and heroin, I don't see how decriminalizing them good possibly be a good idea. d

      It may not be a 'good' idea. It may simply be less bad that keeping them criminalized. Addiction is a medical diagnosis and it makes more sense to keep it in the medical sphere than the criminal one. Being addicted to anything is bad for you (that's inherent in the term). The consequences of that addiction can be modified by decriminalizing the drug (but keeping it regulated). Nobody but nobody is suggesting that we just drop cocaine packets from the sky. Well, perhaps a few folks might like that.....

      The addiction rate for these drugs is 2.5 to 3 times that of alcohol. Heroin, etc. are dangerous and they weren't just banned because of moralizers.

      Citation please. Nicotine is generally considered to be more addictive than anything else. Ask the Vietnam vet who has managed to get off of heroin but still smokes cigarettes.

      And yes, the drugs WERE banned because of problems (or at least perceived problems). However, it is absolutely clear that the criminal justice system hasn't done a very good job of solving those problems and has arguably created bigger problems than the drugs themselves.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:There is no magic bullet by WheezyJoe · · Score: 2

      Ending prohibition didn't kill the mob. They just switched from bootlegging to trafficking narcotics, and they reached the height of their power in the 50s and 60s, long after the prohibition ended.

      Well... by this thinking, the mob continued because prohibition didn't end. They moved from one prohibited product to another, but always a product the people wanted, but couldn't get because of a prohibition, and the mob was in a particularly good position (with their organization and international reach) to supply.

      In the same way, while legalizing marijuana might reduce crime here in the US, cartels in Mexico are Too Big to Fail. They won't pack up their things and head home quietly if marijuana is legalized; they'll just start peddling something new.

      What might happen if the cartels' market dried up is, at best, speculation. Could be risky, change is scary. But doing nothing and maintaining the status quo is worse. The cartels continue to get better and better at smuggling (they got submarines for fuck sake) and much, much richer while turning Central and South American countries into murderous hell-holes from which children flee to the U.S. on foot, and that ain't no shit.

      I don't see how decriminalizing them good possibly be a good idea. The addiction rate for these drugs is 2.5 to 3 times that of alcohol.

      I'm also nervous about cocaine and meth easily getting around (like, more than it already is). But the fact is, drug addiction and mental illness is just gonna have to be something that this country has to shut up, knuckle-down and deal with. It's not going away, and prohibition doesn't help. Prohibition only has power to do one thing... throw people in jail. It doesn't cure addiction (drugs make their way into prisons all the time), and distracts everyone from the larger issue of mental illness. It's like taking out the garbage: nobody wants to do it, nobody gets credit for doing it, but it's gotta be done or shit just piles up and gets worse.

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    6. Re:There is no magic bullet by blindseer · · Score: 2

      Nice straw man you've built.

      I don't like drunk driving laws because I don't care how much alcohol you've consumed so long as you keep your car in your lane and yield the right of way at intersections. As for speed limits? I've seen studies that suggest people drive more safely without posted speed limits. People drive to conditions and the pace of traffic rather than to some government contrived safe limit.

      My right to mustard gas is protected under the second amendment dammit!

      I believe that the people should be able to own any weapon the military and police are allowed to own. Mustard gas isn't a weapon as much as a tool of torture, which is why the US military does not use it any more.

      Don't accuse me of straw-manning because that is exactly what you did when you conflated a heroin ban with warrantless wiretapping. There is such a thing as a reasonable ban.

      Oops, I didn't see that until I started my post. If we are going to ban things then we should do so with the intent to reduce harm. Banning heroin has shown to increase harm on society. Banning things does not make them disappear, it just makes them illegal. We banned murder but it still happens. But by banning murder we've created a punishment for people that have harmed others. Banning heroin does not punish people for harming others, we punish people because... why exactly? We've created this logical loop, people get hurt because heroin is banned, therefore we must continue the ban.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  12. Drugs were not always illegal in the US by cphilo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here is a recipe from my great-grandma's cookbook. Cough Syrup Syrup of squills four ounces, syrup of tolu four ounces, tincture of bloodroot one and one-half ounces, camphorated tincture of opium four ounces. Mix. Dose for an adult, one teaspoon repeated every two to four hours. She used to be able to go to the pharmacist and get tincture of opium.

  13. Legalize drugs by ryanw · · Score: 2

    I was initially hesitant with the legalization of pot in California and the other states. But what's fascinating is that now people get their weed from controlled environments instead some back alley with a drug dealer pushing lots of other stuff as well.

    I could be 1000% wrong as I have no data to back this up, but it made me think the streets have been safer in California since the legalization of pot. Anyone have any data to back that idea up? Any stats of declining use of other more serious drugs? Maybe it hasn't been enough time yet?

  14. HEROIN® brand diamorphine by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Say a government wants to reduce harm without too much of a shock to the prison industry. Perhaps it could split the difference by approving medical diamorphine but giving the trademark on HEROIN® (diamorphine) back to Bayer. That way the feds could still go after street dealers for misusing the name "HEROIN".

    1. Re:HEROIN® brand diamorphine by itsenrique · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think what most people are suggesting is more like local police (or federals) still go after street dealers because legal regulated sale will be allowed that by and large will be the norm because people know it's safe. Like ALCOHOL. Sure, theres a few old timers and rural folk still running moonshine stills, but really, almost all alcohol sale and consumption in the US is legal and taxed. So, there will be some sort of clinic or dispensary where you to go to get your cocaine or heroin. Perhaps there are limits to amount and refusal of sale if customer is already visibly intoxicated, there are hours when sale is restricted (to prevent never-ending binges), and proper ID is required but hopefully goes back to no centralized database. This looks an awful lot like how we handle liquor already, it would be a little more complicated, but not much.

  15. Free demo by tepples · · Score: 2

    Just banning In App Purchases would be a big move at this point in time.

    Without IAPs, what's the correct way to provide a limited playable version without offering the first episode without charge and offering additional episodes as IAPs? This "shareware" model, where the prices for additional episodes are stated up front, worked for Doom.

  16. Meth is already legal in the USA by tepples · · Score: 2

    Desoxyn (methamphetamine hydrochloride) is a prescription drug in the same schedule as Adderall and Ritalin.

  17. Re:Can we have some Facts please? by jeIIomizer · · Score: 2

    The bottom line is that outlawing drugs reduces their use, and correspondingly reduce their negative effects on society.

    Even if I were to accept that as true (I don't), I would still be 100% opposed to the drug war, because it violates people's fundamental liberties. Such a thing would never be allowed in any truly free country, safety or no safety. It's people like you who cheer on the TSA, the NSA surveillance, free speech zones, DUI checkpoints, etc. simply because you think they keep people safe, without caring that you're supposed to be living in a free country.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  18. Re:Use of drugs by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Informative

    The use of drugs is not exactly confined in its impact to the immediate use, which is the theory behind why it was a crime in the first place.

    No, the theory behind the first drug laws in the United States was that chinese immigrants smoked opium, so the consumption of opium via smoking was prohibited while oral consumption (the white peoples consumption method) remained legal. A racist law written by racist people to harm a racial group.

    Drug laws continue to be completely racist, even though the excuses for the laws no longer are. When it wasn't racism against the chinese-americans, it was racism against the african-americans...

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  19. The problem is addiction, not the use of drugs by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can be addicted just as easily to legal drugs as to any substance on the federal schedule. You can be addicted to behaviors like gambling and eating. This problem needs to be addressed medically.

    1. Re:The problem is addiction, not the use of drugs by msobkow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even addiction is not a problem. Back in the day when opium was legal, many people were addicted to it. But they had ready access to a cheap supply of their drug of choice, so they were able to function in society, hold down a job, etc.

      Caffeine is another good example. Lots of people are addicted to caffeine, but function in society.

      Even tobacco (evil though it is) has functional addicts.

      The point is that it's not addiction itself that is a problem, but the stigmatization of addicts by society and the crimes they're forced to commit to feed black market pricing. Put an opiate addict on a methadone program, and they stop breaking into houses to feed their habit.

      Addiction is not a *good* thing, but it should be a personal choice and health issue, not an excuse for ostracizing someone from society.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  20. Re:It's finally time to do it by anagama · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is a great debate between Glenn Greenwald and GWB's drug czar and in it, reference to Portugal and studies related to that are made. From there, you can do your own searching:

    http://vimeo.com/32110912

    --
    What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  21. Re:Bad Idea, End of Story by jeIIomizer · · Score: 2

    I've not had alcohol at all, but I still support other people's freedoms to drink it.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  22. It is like... by Antony+T+Curtis · · Score: 2

    The WHO recommendation is like a drug cartel/warlord's worst nightmare come true.

    --
    No sig. Move along - nothing to see here.