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California In the Running For Tesla Gigafactory
An anonymous reader writes Thanks to some clean-energy tax incentives approved late this spring, California appears to be in the running again for Tesla's "Gigafactory". From the article: "The decision should have been made by now, and ground broken, according to the company's timeline, but is on hold, allowing California, which was not in the race initially — CEO Elon Musk has called California an improbable choice, citing regulations — to throw its hat in the ring. 'In terms of viability, California has progressed. Now it's a four-plus-one race,' said Simon Sproule, Tesla's vice president of global communication and marketing, referring to the four named finalists — Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada — for the prize. That's heartening. Having the Gigafactory would be a vindication of Gov. Jerry Brown's drive to make California the home of advanced manufacturing, of which Tesla's battery technology is a prime example. With its technology, 'Tesla may be in position to disrupt industries well beyond the realm of traditional auto manufacturing. It's not just cars,' a Morgan Stanley analyst told Quartz, an online business publication last year.
Why the hell is Texas in the running? I mean, it makes perfect sense to reward a state that makes it as difficult as possible to sell a vehicle with Tesla's sales model.
Slashdot hadnt yet posted anything about Elon Musk today. My groupthink-o-meter was starting to dip back down below 'fellate'.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
The plans for this factory have it automated to hell, employing a skeleton crew of human beings. This is bringing manufacturing to California, but not jobs. What are the masses of unemployed except for the lucky handful supposed to do to feed their families?
What the fuck, humans.
is Tesla still in the run for the Gigafactory?
The decision should have been made by now, and ground broken, according to the company's timeline, but is on hold
Hmm ... hard to tell.
It makes perfect (business) sense to locate it in a state with reasonable wages not drive up by unreasonable taxes and regulations, huge amounts of available land, common sense zoning restrictions, reasonable environmental regulations, and politicians that are actually interested in your business becoming a success . It's what's made the oil/gas/information services/computer/auto/semiconductor/etc. industry successful so far.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
The last time Tesla built a gigafactory it caused the Tunguska explosion!
If you want to sell a Tesla in Calistan then it has to be built in Calistan by illegal aliens.
Rush Limbaugh called. He wanted us to tell you that you're a little over the top.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
...it is the sole source ( as in only ) of Lithium in the United States. The rest of the choices are just head-fakes for negotiation and Texas in particular is a joke where at worst he gets to laugh at the idiots who take their candidacy seriously, and at best the longhorns repent on their policy of institutionalized racketeering. If you want to actually site the thing, study railroad maps.
Area 51 would be my choice, that would at least meet Calistan's "Proudly built by illegal aliens" mandate.
That is a tiny fraction of what US manufacturing used to employ
It's ONE COMPANY and a relatively small one at that. Do you expect them to single handedly employ everyone looking for work? 6500 jobs is a LOT of jobs but way to try to diminish a good thing there Debbie Downer.
During the heyday of the American middle class, GM employed hundreds of thousands of people.
They still do. GM presently directly employs roughly 219,000 people. Last I checked that qualifies as "hundreds of thousands of people". GMs suppliers employ about 6 times that many people for products made by GM. (look it up - there is roughly 6 manufacturing workers in the supply chain for every one at a major auto maker) And furthermore there is is a multiplier effect whereby every $1 spent in manufacturing results in approximately $1.35 in additional economic activity which means more jobs. The death of US manufacturing has been greatly exaggerated.
The nanny state giveth, the nanny state taketh away.
Not to bash just California, Texas' crony-friendly dealership protection scheme is much the same kind of anti-competitive nonsense that destroys innovation.
Which California? I hear there are 6 now.
Better known as 318230.
frankly I dont know why anyone would want to open a business in cali right now.
Depends on the business. For certain types of businesses, California is where the talent is located. Not to say you can't locate a successful company elsewhere (you can!) but there is a reason you find a lot of tech companies in California just like there is a reason you find a lot of manufacturing companies in Michigan, a lot of finance companies in New York, etc. Despite the problems California didn't become the economic powerhouse it did by random chance. It got there because it has the right combination of institutions, resources, talent and location.
Id much rather open a business pretty much anywhere else in the country over cali
Then I'm guessing you haven't opened a lot of businesses. There are certain businesses that make tremendous sense in California and others that make sense elsewhere. Unless you are going to get considerably more specific about what type of business you are planning to open then you are not making any sort of reasonable point.
Or simply call for the state version of nationalization, tax it 100% and give away the cars for free.
Or typical evil big business as usual.
As long as we coddle these "big" guys, they will take it all and come begging for more.
"An arm and a leg? That was last year? What are you giving me this year? How about the other arm and the leg?"
"Both arms and legs? That was last year? What about this year? Look, as business we are supposed to look for profit and not feel stupid things like gratitude. I hear the other state has both legs and arms. If I don't extract it from them, my shareholders will sue. So see ya."
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
I just escaped, lost half as many employees as I thought, and can actually, you know, expand my business. At the state level, California is more hostile than every state except Massachusetts. However, NJ and NY municipalities apparently want to ban all business. Austin traffic is bad, unless you compare it to the 5 or the 405. And it turns out that it's nice to have neighbors.
I'm surprised California would even be in the running. Land is expensive, taxes are high, and cost of living is among the highest in the country.
By contrast, Arizona and Nevada have cheap land, low taxes, and low cost of living plus low labor costs.
California's main asset is its technology population, plus access to sea ports.
Should be interesting to see who wins. I would have thought that Mr. Musk would prefer to place his plant in a low cost region like Malaysia or south China, but I guess there are logistical and political reasons to keep it in the home country.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
Hopefully, they already have a pilot production line up making these 'advanced lithium batteries'?
Seems like the learning curve could be longer than 2016.
Sacremento is out in the California Delta. There's already a severe water shortage, plus that crop land is among the best in the world. Bad place to build a huge factory that will draw thousands of people into the area.
Why in hell would Tesla build a factory in a state that is infamous for high cost of living??!? (=high labor costs)
They must be getting some of the best fellatio ever...or huge, long running, incentives from the state. Hmm. Okay; a political blow then. LOLZ
Tesla is NOT building just 1 factory. They are going to build 2, possibly more.
Look, batteries are needed in America. Not just for the cars, but for bringing back tools and other manufacturing.
The fact is, that building 1 factory is EXPENSIVE. Building a second, while the first is going up, will probably costs 1/2 or less.
Building more than 2 will not only be cheaper to build / plant, but will also lower the price / battery.
My bet is that CA will be the first plant, with NM second.
"...vindication of Gov. Jerry Brown's..."
Great reason right there to not pick California.
How's that high speed rail construction project that was voted down by Californians 3 times with a large enough margin that it's a pretty clear shout of "Hell No!" each of the times it was vote on, that Jerry Brown is going ahead with anyway, working out?
Is it still taking place in a corridor where land is cheap because there's no place to get on or off the damn thing that has any significant population that would constitute the target ridership?
Is it still taking place in an era with no water to support future development potential, because all that water is being shipped down to Los Angeles, which is too lazy to build actual catchement, and just runs all their water off into the ocean, and is too lazy/cheap to build desalination plants powered by the waste heat from Diablo Canyon (which they'd prefer to have shut down, even though it's a zero carbon emission power plant)?
The man is a freaking public policy nightmare spendthrift, not to mention that Texas has no income tax; what moron would build a factory in California? Elon was just being nice when he didn't categorically rule it out when asked.
The trouble in setting up there would be, what are you going to use for a workforce?
You think there is a lack of a willing and capable workforce in Detroit Metro? You could not be more wrong. There are reasonable reasons to pick places other than Metro Detroit to build a factory but the blight in Detroit City and perceived lack of a workforce is not among them. Honestly I can't think of many better places to build a factory if you really look at the evidence. The opportunity is definitely there. You might find cheaper labor elsewhere but you aren't going to find a more capable labor force anywhere for manufacturing.
Likely as not, not locals
You bet. There is more manufacturing and engineering talent in Detroit metro than all but a handful of places in the US. Did you forget that GM has their headquarters in downtown Detroit? Where do you think they get their people from? Do you think it is by accident that almost every single car supplier of consequence has engineering operations somewhere near Detroit? Michigan ranks 4th in the nation in high tech jobs. Metro Detroit is the second largest source of tech jobs of any metro area in the US. If you want manufacturing talent you could do a lot worse than Michigan.
So yeah, the locals will do just fine.
how are you going to convince folks to me to Detroit, not much incentive to move to a barren, economically sparse, drug infested/violence infested area.
If you think that properly describes all of Detroit then you aren't wanted there and you clearly know little about the area. Downtown Detroit near the Renaissance Center has actually seen a pretty nice revival. Not to say the city overall doesn't have a long way to go (it very much does) but there are big parts of it that are nothing like the hell hole you are describing. Guys like Dan Gilbert are buying up all kinds of property and businesses are setting up shop left and right. It's a hell of an economic opportunity if your investment horizon is sufficiently long term. There are three major stadiums, a convention center, a university, three casinos, GM, outstanding restaurants, Whole Foods, and lots more all downtown. You really think Whole Foods is going to set up shop in the middle of a blighted, drug infested area? I just had a relative open up an upscale coffee shop in Downtown Detroit and another relative of mine has a fast casual restaurant at the Renaissance Center.
Furthermore it doesn't have to be in Detroit City. The Detroit Metro area is genuinely nice. I live in Oakland County which is immediately to the north of Detroit City and is one of the ten wealthiest counties in the entire US, has a AAA credit rating and is a genuinely nice place to live. Washtenaw and McComb counties are equally nice places. The University of Michigan as well as several other excellent local universities provides an outstanding local talent pool.
Tesla would be retarded to locate in CA. CA is fundamentally anti-business and short-term incentives will turn into long term nightmares.
Why not somewhere with cheap electric rates.Manitoba, Canada has the cheapest according to this 2013 survey: http://issuu.com/hydroquebec/docs/comp_2013_en
If batteries are going to be charged here (the Gigafactory), the electricity should be cheap and plentiful to further decrease the costs of electric vehicles.
the people in charge give entrepreneurs "tax incentives" and then years later retroactively cancel them and send out letters demanding the back-payment of all those "unpaid taxes" along with threats of jail time if not paid "in a timely manner"...
This actually happened, though it sent such a political shock wave that the politicians stopped it (but ONLY as an act of self-preservation, NOT because they thought there was anything wrong with it...) In California, the politicians routinely change the rules right underneath people without telling them. The easiest way to control a man, after all, is to make so many laws that EVERY man will have broken at least one ... and then you can simply arrest anybody who does not do what you want him to do and charge him with whatever actual violation you can figure out that he has done (while ignoring all the violations by the people who are otherwise doing what you want).
Actually, the splitting of the state (which you obviously mocked) would be good for the people of the state. Currently the 38 million voters of California are represented in the Senate by 2 senators (same as the 2 senators who represent the million people of Rhode Island), after the split the same California voters would have 12 Senators. Also, given the winner-take-all nature of politics, currently nearly half of the population of the state has no say in the policies of the state. The permanent majority in the legislature, created by the mega-cities of LA and San Francisco, has resulted in a situation where much of the rest of the state is permanently ignored. Even in presidential politics, Democrats milk California for money (while generally ignoring it otherwise because they can take it for granted) while Republicans generally ignore it because they cannot win it in the post-1986Amnesty environment; the result being that nobody in California has any real influence in who the President is (not REALLY in the primaries, which down-select to the final 2 candidates, nor in the general election where no individual vote matters in a state so populated)
I love the irony that my post joking about Tesla's flamability is now modded Flamebait. Thank you modders, you have made my day :-D
Yes. There's also the matter of the labor unions and the screwed up politics of both Detroit and the state.
Neither of which are the problem you think they are. Michigan is now a Right To Work state. Whatever your feelings regarding that politically, it is clear evidence that unions are not the power they once were in Michigan. Both legislative houses and the governor are Republican at the moment and (like him or hate him) governor Rick Snyder (former CEO of Gateway Computer BTW) has been pretty business friendly. Frankly I don't run into anyone on a regular basis that is a member of any union.
Furthermore the economic problems in Michigan have cut a lot of the political BS away. Michigan is very actively courting business including a lot of battery business. A lot of business taxes have been eliminated in the last few years. Detroit City is under the control of an emergency manager. The politics there don't really interfere with anyone who is actually bringing money and business to the city. The politics in Michigan are no more screwed up than in any number of other states I could mention, including California. Virtually all the problems in Michigan are simply long term economic trends relating to the state's dependence on the auto industry.
I think it'd be far cheaper to move whatever fragment of that workforce which is still "capable" out of Michigan to California or Texas than it would be to build anything there.
You would be very wrong to believe that. What you are saying is as absurd as saying it would be cheaper to move the workforce for IT out of Silicon Valley. You clearly have no idea what life is actually like in Michigan.
funny how "clean-energy tax incentives" is given a free pass instead of being condemned as the "corporate welfare" boogeyman that is deployed against most other large high profit industries. No union representation also given a free pass at TESLA facilities too.
If those who rail against "corporate welfare" and "non union shops" were actually against those things and not simply employed and rabble-roused by one industry to attack another anyway the it might seem hypocritical and confusing.
Not holding my breath for #OccupyTESLA any time soon. Those expensive $5K a plate Silicon Valley "fundraisers" made sure of that.
You would be very wrong to believe that. What you are saying is as absurd as saying it would be cheaper to move the workforce for IT out of Silicon Valley. You clearly have no idea what life is actually like in Michigan.
Something which incidentally isn't that hard to do and actually happened. The IT workforce has been moving out of Silicon Valley for decades, just as it has for auto workers in Michigan. The difference is that someone has been moving back to California to replace those who left.
The national picture of Detroit and surrounding area..is pretty much one big,decaying heroin/crack den with abandoned and dilapidated properties...with tumbleweeds aplenty in the streets.
Hell, the episode of Drugs, Inc on the Nat. Geo channel alone painted a pretty bleak picture of Detroit spreading heroin around to not only itself, but the surviving suburbs that are still around the area.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Something which incidentally isn't that hard to do and actually happened
It actually happened, but it was hard. It took a lot of hard work.
Somebody had to build offices in new locations
Somebody had to invent new gadgets and apps, so those new locations have a demand for hiring IT
Somebody had to build up those other locations to be enticing for IT people to want to move and work there.
Somebody had to lobby governments to not get in the way of it all. Probably the hardest part.
It gets harder if you involve foreign labor or business partners, where you have to convince both the US and, say, China's govenrment to not get in the way. On one side, you've got neanderthal statists who is used to oppressing their own people and don't understand capitalism, freedom, or anything that makes the developed world great, and on the other side you've got the Chinese!