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The Army Is 3D Printing Warheads

Jason Koebler writes: In its latest bid to kill more people, more efficiently, and at less cost, the army is planning to print warhead components, according to the latest issue of Army Technology (PDF). "3D printing of warheads will allow us to have better design control and utilize geometries and patterns that previously could not be produced or manufactured," James Zunino, a researcher at the Armament Research, Engineering and Design Center said. "Warheads could be designed to meet specific mission requirements whether it is to improve safety to meet an Insensitive Munitions requirement, or it could have tailorable effects, better control, and be scalable to achieve desired lethality."

140 comments

  1. I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We need safer warheads.

    1. Re:I agree by mspohr · · Score: 1, Funny

      How about ones that don't explode?

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    2. Re:I agree by GarethIwanFairclough · · Score: 5, Interesting

      How about ones that don't explode?

      Oddly enough, training shells were used by desperate gunners during the battle of Jutland. The normal shells weren't penetrating the armour of the German ships, but the concrete filled training shells were punching right through, dealing surprisingly heavy damage.

    3. Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not odd, they're known as "Kinetic Energy Weapons". In Iraq the US dropped concrete bombs on military equipment near civilian populations (AA gun battery located in a neighborhood, for example). Equipment is destroyed, but an explosion doesn't take out the surrounding homes.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy_penetrator

      http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/07/world/us-wields-defter-weapon-against-iraq-concrete-bomb.html

    4. Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have a winner. The French did this too during the Libyra operations.

    5. Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh poppycock. It wasn't until well after the battle from second hand observations of the Germans boasting about how crappy the British shells were that it was known how bad they truly were. And if you believe during even a lengthy battle as this that it was determined that somehow Xlbs of concrete rather than Xlbs of AP shell would be better I've a bridge to sell you.

    6. Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, it looks like they're improving on the kinetic energy weapon

      http://www.onr.navy.mil/media-center/fact-sheets/electromagnetic-railgun.aspx

      Mach 7.5
      Using its extreme speed on impact, the kinetic energy warhead eliminates the hazards of high explosives in the ship and unexploded ordnance on the battlefield.

    7. Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who wants to guess the writer of this article is more cowardly than me and decided not to serve when their main sent out the call?

    8. Re: I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're one of the dumb fuckers that they recruit to go out and bomb other countries with democracy.

      Great. We all appreciate your service.

    9. Re:I agree by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Yes, safer would be more accurate to reach an intended target. Perhaps" farther" would be a consideration as well. Greater damage upon impact would be a nice goal of efficiency, as well.

      I wonder if there are some designs for printing bullets to reload in MY guns, based on this concept. That would be awesome.
      Perhaps dimpling them like a golf ball, or adding an explosive payload inside....

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    10. Re: I agree by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Democracy bombs should have been outlawed in Geneva. What a horrible thing to do to another country! It's like giving others venereal warts on purpose.
      There needs to be a vaccine for democrazy.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    11. Re:I agree by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      The normal shells weren't penetrating the armour of the German ships, but the concrete filled training shells were punching right through, dealing surprisingly heavy damage.

      That's because in their training the Germans were only exposed to abstract shells.

    12. Re:I agree by GarethIwanFairclough · · Score: 1

      Oh poppycock. It wasn't until well after the battle from second hand observations of the Germans boasting about how crappy the British shells were that it was known how bad they truly were. And if you believe during even a lengthy battle as this that it was determined that somehow Xlbs of concrete rather than Xlbs of AP shell would be better I've a bridge to sell you.

      I'm not saying that. What I am saying is "gunners were seeing their shells were hitting but not doing anything, so they thought something along the lines of "Fuck it, lets use the concrete ones instead, they couldn't be any more useless than the normal ones!" and found out that they were rather more effective.

      In a stand up fight, "smashing through armour with something that shouldn't be able to do that" beats "barely scratching armour with something that is supposed to get through" any day.

  2. GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
    Again I call for the GPLv4 to become the 'good public license'.
    Cannot be used for weapon manufacturing or mass surveillance... or anything defined as 'evil' by a FSF committee.

    I don't want to be part of the evil masterplans of those basards.
    Currently 'patent protection' is defined as evil. But I think most of us agree there are more fundamental evil for which our software can be used...

    Wake up RMS!

    1. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This comes from someone who just does not understand that without weapons manufacture most of the world would be speaking German or Russian by now.

    2. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by ZeroPly · · Score: 2

      Oooh... and once GPLv4 prohibits it, the Army is going to stop using the technology in its super secret programs? Let me laugh even harder...

      --
      Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
    3. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This comes from someone who just does not understand that without weapons manufacture most of the world would be speaking German or Russian by now.

      As opposed to the utopia of freedom and joy we have now?

    4. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Compared to that it is.

    5. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
      One could limit the scope of 'evil' to weapons of mass destruction.

      I guess that's a valid debate.

      And it will still be possible to make them without our software... I just don't want to have helped them!
      We make software because of that warm fuzzy feeling. Not to know that it contributes to killing people (from whatever country).

    6. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your argument is a self-serving fallacy. Without advanced weapons manufacture, Germany and Russia would not have grown as large and powerful as they did in the first place. Without the arms races that ensued, they would not have taken over as many nations as they did, with or without using them.

    7. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
      Don't you think someone would leak it?

      And if they would use it, at least we could sue them...

      My bet is they would not. And that they would have to rely upon outdated crappy software. Or pay a lot more for their software development.

      Or just use software with older versions of the GPL only.

    8. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I just don't want to have helped them!

      But you have no problem basking in the freedom provided by those who use them.

    9. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can't help be reminded of this:

      http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive/source-changes/0105/msg01243.html

      Log message:
      Remove ipf. Darren Reed has interpreted his (old, new, whichever)
      licence in a way that makes ipf not free according to the rules we
      established over 5 years ago, at www.openbsd.org/goals.html (and those
      same basic rules govern the other *BSD projects too). Specifically,
      Darren says that modified versions are not permitted. But software
      which OpenBSD uses and redistributes must be free to all (be they
      people or companies), for any purpose they wish to use it, including
      modification, use, peeing on, or even integration into baby mulching
      machines or atomic bombs to be dropped on Australia. Furthermore, we
      know of a number of companies using ipf with modification like us, who
      are now in the same situation, and we hope that some of them will work
      with us to fill this gap that now exists in OpenBSD (temporarily, we
      hope).

    10. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Do you really think Germany or Russia would honour your GPL?

    11. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we would still be surfs serving our feudal lords and their knights.

    12. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
      While an arms race might have been important in the past, it isn't what drives current civilisation.

      And I hope it will stay that way.

      At least in my country most of the intelligent Linux developers don't want to work for the weapons manufacturer. So they build less good soft/hardware as they could have otherwise.

      Just like good developers don't want to work for Microsoft, because who wants to be associated with that?

      The key thing is that I don't want to personally decide what is 'evil' and what is not.

      But we are doing that right now with the GPLv3 already.

      I believe that the EFF has a wonderful opportunity there to form a committee to make that definition and implement it legally.

    13. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
      I can't speak for Russia, but Germany is very strict about copyright regulations.

      Just as the current license is very good respected, and for certain embedded applications the GPLv3 is avoided, they would certainly not want to risk any software license violation.

    14. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by ZeroPly · · Score: 1

      Ok, let me get this straight. You're going to sue the United States Army over the technical details of a highly classified program, one that by any conceivable description fits under the national security umbrella? The only question is whether the judge would pass out from laughing before he gets a chance to throw out the case.

      --
      Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
    15. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by SpankiMonki · · Score: 2

      This comes from someone who just does not understand that without weapons manufacture most of the world would be speaking German or Russian by now.

      And without whiskey manufacture, most of the world would be speaking Gaelic by now.

    16. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      You left out some possibilities:
      - Go BSD, which is just as good, or better.
      - Legally take the software, rewriting the law if necessary. (Just think of it as a tax.)

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    17. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
      As we currently limit the freedom of those who want to create DRM-protected GPLv3 linux appliances. Or as we limit the freedom of people who would like to redistribute a Linux derivative in a proprietary format.

      Certain freedoms have to be limited to protect our interests and preserve our own freedoms and even our privacy.

    18. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Ni!

    19. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by mspohr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most wars are started when one group of greedy bastards wants to take over from another group of greedy bastards. These greedy bastards (generally politicians and their corporate sponsors) are the "elite" of societies. Since they control the wealth, they have the most to gain (or lose) by war. Everyone else is just cannon fodder and will end up worse off after the war regardless of who wins. There are a few interesting probes of this rule. I just finished reading George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" which is an account of his experiences in the Spanish Civil War. Apparently, the faction Orwell was fighting for (apparently by chance), POUM, did try to establish an egalitarian workers society. However, they were sold out by the Russian Communists and other factions.
      I think it's really difficult (?impossible) to establish a truly egalitarian society anywhere which would actually improve the condition of the peons. The usual result in just about every political system is that you end up with a few greedy bastards in charge fighting the greedy bastards next door.
      I'm not sure it would make much difference to be speaking German or Russian or Japanese or Chinese or have to profess belief in a different god. If you survived the war, you will still have the same shitty job living hand to mouth... just a different master.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    20. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Hadlock · · Score: 0

      And yet strangely the two largest language groups are Mandarin and Spanish, the two least successful millitaries of the 20th century.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    21. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by alen · · Score: 1

      congress will pass a law or the president will issue an executive order allowing military use of OSS whether the license prohibits it or not

    22. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Obfuscant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One could limit the scope of 'evil' to whatever I decide is evil today.

      FTFY.

      Free software means free. Exactly how many riders and amendments to FOSS licenses do we want to have? "Cannot be used by anyone in Canada." "Cannot be used to make ugly things." "Cannot be used on the Sabbath."

      "We make software because of that warm fuzzy feeling.

      "We" make software for any number of reasons, and "we" give up the right to tell people how they have to use it when we make it free. And, if I recall correctly, "we" explicitly tell people that what they make with our software is not covered by the license. I.e., code you compile with gcc doesn't have to be licensed under GPL.

    23. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1

      Developers have the choice to license their software under licenses as they choose appropriately.
      Certainly the BSD license can still be used for such applications, even GPLv3 and GPLv2 licensed programs - in the far fetched assumption that the GPLv4 would become the 'good public license'.
      And changing the law to remove clauses out of a software license,... well I think it's highly improbable and very difficult to implement in a law. Yet nothing is impossible. And it would probably lead again to a new software license (and a lot of relicensing work).

    24. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 2
      We make software for a reason. Not to just give it away for free as in beer. But to provide freedom.

      For that reason we ask people to release the changes to the code back to our collection of software which provides more freedom.

      While certain companies are concerned about competitors getting to see their code, the disadvantages are much less important than the advantages of being able to stand on the shoulders of the giants in the opensource community.

      We limit the freedom of people who want to use our code without giving back, so we can ensure a future in which we can access data without having to depend on one company. Together we are building that future.

      Yet we see that our code is being used for mass surveillance.
      To snoop upon all our communications.
      To invade our privacy.
      To datamine our meta-data and to possibly make far-reaching conclusions.
      And to build weapons of mass destruction.
      I don't want to contribute to such a future.

    25. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
      Would you agree with such a law?
      How are they going to define a 'OSS' license?
      Don't you think we will find a way around that to create another license not fitting that description and rendering that executive order useless.
      No president would issue an executive order if it also hurts the software industry in the same way.

      But I guess it's a valid point and something to be taken into consideration when drafting such a GPLv4.
      Also don't forget that the GPLv4 goes a lot further than only the US...

    26. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      There has never been a warhead that "provided" any freedom, not in my lifetime, and not in yours.

      And Dwight Eisenhower was president when I was born.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    27. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand a legal taking, think eminent domain. You don't get to keep property that is condemned by just changing the deed to say "you can't take this."

      If the government decided it was essential to take a particular bit of software and it actually cared about doing it legally they could pass a law that says they can do it regardless of what the license says. It wouldn't be that hard of a law to pass if it was really that important.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    28. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by internet-redstar · · Score: 1
      They could.

      But the weapon manufacturers would have to look elsewhere for their software.

      And the implications for such a law would go much further than OpenSource software.

      It would be valid for any commercially developed software too.

      I would be very surprised if the US government would pass a law to contradict the software industry to such an extend!

    29. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

      Or China? Or the US?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    30. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      And how much of an impact do you think that would actually have on the military's ability to do any of this stuff? Hint: it's about the same as the amount of damage a bulldozzer would suffer if it rolled right over you.

      or anything defined as 'evil' by a FSF committee.

      Trying to define an objective standard of something as subjective as "evil" is bad enough, but asking a committee to do it?!

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    31. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      We make software for a reason.

      "We" make software for many reasons.

      Not to just give it away for free as in beer. But to provide freedom.

      I was using "free" as in "freedom". How is it "freedom" if you start putting restrictions on who can use the software and for what purposes? And who decides what those disallowed purposes are? The programmer or someone else? Suppose I'm a programmer who doesn't like abortions. Can I say "you can use free software unless you are an abortion clinic" because I've got some patches in some free software packages?

      Does "free software" truly represent free software if there are so many limits on who can use it that nobody can use any of it?

      For that reason we ask people to release the changes to the code back to our collection of software which provides more freedom.

      That is not a restriction on who can use the code and for what purposes. The Army is not changing the code, they are using the code to produce other things. I have a router or two that has FOSS code in them, but that doesn't mean that I have to send hand all the data I send through those routers off to the EFF for their use. I have programs I compile with gcc, but that doesn't mean I have to hand over that code to everyone who asks for it. And IIRC, even the GPL doesn't require release of local modifications to GPL code unless you're trying to distribute that code. I could be wrong, I don't care, the point is irrelevant to this discussion. The Army isn't writing code.

      We limit the freedom of people who want to use our code without giving back, so we can ensure a future in which we can access data without having to depend on one company.

      I'm sorry, what? The GPL doesn't say that any data that you manage or create using GPL code must be released back to the community. Not even close. You speak very fancy words, but I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

      Yet we see that our code is being used for mass surveillance.

      Yes. So? Freedom means freedom. Freedom doesn't mean "anyone except YOU can use this code".

      I don't want to contribute to such a future.

      Then don't do any of those things. But when you create a free tool you give up the right to say "you may not use my tool", because that is in itself a lack of freedom.

      Why don't you test your ability to keep people you don't like from using your "tools"? I betcha there are a lot of Apache web servers in use by the military. That's a clear violation of "freedom", isn't it? Why are you not in court today? I know there are linux systems in .mil domains. Get your lawyer busy.

    32. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by r.freeman · · Score: 2

      Weapons are important to defend oneself from governments, like democracy of Nazist's Germany or in more recent times the democracy that given usa NSA.

      Bespides freedom versus big government problems, the guns are giving people chance to defend from common criminals.

      Your girlfriends vs rapist - very little chance in unarmer combat.
      Your girlfriends vs robber with illegal gun (strangely criminals tend to ignore law) - no chance.


      Your girlfriend with gun vs rapist - is the better situation, I say she has right to defend herself, you say she does not?


      Gunophobes have a serious lapse of logic in this matter usually.

    33. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. I had to laugh when reading that article:

      But the military isn’t just interested in saving lives—more often than not, it takes them.

      Really? No shit. The military kills people?

      In its latest bid to kill more people, more efficiently, and at less cost

      Isn't this what we want all government agencies to strive for? When the military's actual job is to figure out how to kill people and destroy things with maximum effectiveness and efficiency, then we really shouldn't complain when they seem to be doing a good job of it. I'm not exactly sure what this writer thought the military's purpose is, but he seems horrified at the thought of using technology to kill people more efficiently.

      So, there we have it. While comparatively small-scale dangers like homebrew plastic guns make headlines, one of the most powerful and deadly organizations in the world is using the same technology to build better weapons of mass destruction on the cheap.

      Should the US not develop technologies like this and simply hope no one else does either? People today are so damned sure that we'll never get into another large-scale shooting war. I hope to hell we don't, but if we do, I'd like our side to have the best weapons, and all the better if they're efficient to produce. Even if, in the future, the military is scaled down to paramilitary forces level (small, lean and efficient), wouldn't it be better to outfit them inexpensively rather than spending billions on weapons production? Who the hell would advocate spending more of our budget on rockets and bombs when less expensive devices could be made much cheaper (other than weapons manufacturers, I suppose)? Wouldn't that leave more money to spend on better things?

      The author got one thing right. For all it gets wrong (and I'm sure actual military folks could provide plenty of stories), the US military arguably is the most lethal and destructive force the world has ever known. They also don't go off killing random people and blowing things up. Elected civilians are the ones who ultimately decide whether or not to pull the trigger. It's easy enough to demonize the military while conveniently forgetting that they guy you voted for is the one sending them out to kill people, but it's dishonest as hell.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    34. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by r.freeman · · Score: 1

      Why blame software, while you do sponsor NSA?

      Your tax and democratic laws are the foundation of NSA-state, not the tools, software, guns or hammers used.

    35. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by r.freeman · · Score: 1

      Yeah they would be very concerned about "being strict with copyritgs" while heaving no problem killing you ;)

      Well that is in fact what they do, but to enemies. It is ok to murder some rebels in one country, while you must over protect people in another one, such hypocrisy - but either way if you are the "target" they will not give any shit about any silly laws.

    36. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by r.freeman · · Score: 1

      Oh but USA gov and usa miliarty complex are quite in the bed with eachother... didn't you know this?

    37. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by rahvin112 · · Score: 0

      You probably lost of lot of Americans with that Joke because they don't understand the Irish speak Gaelic.

    38. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by r.freeman · · Score: 1

      USA sadly has democracy - so it does not matter what "he" thinks - the gov will do as it pleases, after making the most campaign sponsored one of two war criminals as the president, and passing some other representatives they will rule as they want, putting as much value on honor or morality as they did in past DECADES, acta, sopa, DMCA, patents, war on drugs, war on children drawing guns on paper, war on "sexuall predators" meaning 2 teenagers sexting eachother and so on.

      Why you focus on a tool, while the problem is that we let this bad people create laws and take tax to sponsor the abovementioned evil projects and laws?

      Even if it would be direct democracy, still it is simply a matter of calling "think of the childreeeen" "national emergency!" "external enemy!" "weapons of mass destruction" and other bullshit as usuall, and the scared with media masses of idiots will vote on what the hidden leaders want - the wonder of modern democracy.

    39. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you survived the war, you will still have the same shitty job living hand to mouth... just a different master.

      It depends on the "master"; that can make a huge difference. At the end of WW2, Western Europe got the U.S. as it's "master", who paid upwards of $13 billion (a staggering amount of foreign aid at the time) to rebuild, self-rule, and prosperity. Eastern Europe got shit on by the Soviet Union for about the next 50 years.
       

    40. Re: GPLv4 - the good public license? by cmholm · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Irish are taught Gaelic, but they by-and-large speak English.

      --
      Luke, help me take this mask off ... Just for once, let me butterfly kiss you with my own eyes.
    41. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And without whiskey manufacture, most of the world would be speaking Gaelic by now.

      No, nobody actually speaks Gaelic, it's simply something you slur/grunt out when you are in a drunken stuper...

    42. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever heard of deterrence? Apparently not.

    43. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kowabunga Sir Longboard! Yea verily there is a mighty ocean swell upon which we can perch ourselves to impress the fair maidens!

    44. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to disagree with this. In traveling around this planet for several decades, I've come to the conclusion that some people simply need shot. Or in this case, blown up. Why not make it more efficient with less collateral damage? In effect, more precise.

    45. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As opposed to the utopia of freedom and joy we have now?

      You're welcome to GTFO to another country and find out what oppression really feels like, my dear pampered child.

    46. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by steveha · · Score: 1

      There is an upper bound to how much stuff people will tolerate in a license. If you add even one restriction too many, people will stop using the software at all. If possible, people may fork an older version of the software; if not possible, people will switch to something else, or perhaps start their own project with a different license.

      For an example from history, look at what happened to XFree86 when they changed the terms of their license. Pretty much overnight, almost everyone stopped using XFree86 and switched to the then-new X.org project. I'm sure that the XFree86 guys thought that the world would just accept the changes to the license, but that's not what happened; what happened instead is that XFree86 became instantly irrelevant.

      So, if RMS takes your advice and adopts the restrictions you propose, some nonzero number of users will fall away, and new forks will begin to appear of the software. Meanwhile the military users will shrug and just deal with it. There is exactly zero chance that your proposed GPLv4 will change the plans of the military, even a little bit.

      So now the question becomes: what are you trying to accomplish with your proposed GPLv4? If the benefits outweigh the costs, do it. But do it with full knowledge that there will be costs, and among the costs will be increased fragmentation of open-source software projects (more forks and more new projects).

      A CNC machine or a 3D printer can be used to make medical parts, or weapons. It follows that if the military contributes code to control a CNC machine or 3D printer, the contributed code could be used for good purposes. One consequence of your proposed GPLv4 license: code under such a license would no longer receive contributions from the military. Is that part of what you wanted to achieve? I don't see this as a win, myself.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    47. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by slew · · Score: 2

      And yet strangely the two largest language groups are Mandarin and Spanish, the two least successful millitaries of the 20th century.

      However, in 200BC, the Qin (aka Chin) dynasty had quite the army, and in the 16th and early 17th century, Spain had quite the military/navy.

      FWIW, much of the geopolitical world as we know it wasn't formed in the 20th century. Much of the current geo-political alignments of the world were formed as a result of the Holy roman empire in the 800's, the exploits of Genghis Khan in the 12th century, and early Spanish explorers (and conquistadors) in the Americas. Of course the weapons they manufactured back then were primitive by modern standards, they managed to shape the world as we know it.

      Of course no dynasty lasts forever...

    48. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank God US is not your personal childish sandbox . Keep sucking your master's balls you insensitive clod.

    49. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...says the guy who can't spell "stupor".

    50. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know - have you been whisked away to a detention camp where you'll be starved, tortured, and then murdered for posting this anti-government rhetoric?

      No?

      Then yeah, as opposed to the utopia of freedom and joy we have now.

      Things can be "bad" without being "the worst ever," you roaring fuck-whistle.

    51. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      1) You're very wrong. I can't believe you've never heard the term deterrence, but it's certainly a real thing.

      2) GP poster didn't say "the warheads provided freedom" - he said the people using the warheads provide the freedom.

      2a) He's right.

    52. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 1

      ummm, yeah, back up and think about it for a minute.

      1: Hypothetical situation where the biggest military in the world by orders of magnitude is breaking a "stupid software license" ( their terms ).

      2: your answer is "sue", either in US court / foreign court. Which then gets told "state secret blah blah blah" and to talk to the shiny new warhead if there are any problems.

      3: You apparently think the biggest military is just gonna roll over because the software says they can't use it....

      Premises 2 and 3 are just plain foolish, especially premise 3. It's not like there is rampant copyright violations worldwide... oh wait, I must have been thinking of the RIAA / MPAA dream world for a second instead of the real world.

      TL;DR version: all that license is is a bunch of words to be ignored if you don't have the power to actually enforce it. And no, I highly doubt the rest of the world will declare WW3 over a copyright violation.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    53. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or Japanese

    54. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Things can be "bad" without being "the worst ever," you roaring fuck-whistle.

      EDI: Coffee-to-monitor transform completed successfully.

    55. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      integration into baby mulching machines or atomic bombs to be dropped on Australia.

      While I agree they can be very annoying, I'm not sure I'm down with the baby-mulching machines. The atomic bombing of Australia, however, sounds like the only good idea I've heard in a long while!

    56. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      The weapons manufacturers could use whatever the government gave them just like construction companies can build a road on taken land.

      Why would you be surprised? If the government can take land to build roads, why would software be any different? (Especially when what you are talking about is a licensing term?)

      I think you just have some mistaken ideas about power of licenses and government, especially if there is an emergency declared.

      I wouldn't worry too much about this though. Linux isn't that special that something else couldn't be used, and I doubt such a license would be embraced by the general software community.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    57. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      And we'd be using chalk on slate as our primary communications mechanism. Not that any of that is a bad thing of course... It's just that the desire to kill people inspires more investments than the desire to make friends.

    58. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      But you have no problem basking in the freedom provided by those who use them.

      There's a lot implicit in that sentence.
      Which freedom is "provided" by our military.
      Which freedom specifically are we all basking in?
      What freedom has been preserved or provided by invading Iraq or Afghanistan?

      Post 9/11 laws have done more to take away our freedoms than anything the military has done to recover or preserve them.

      Is freedom from terrorist attacks more important than freedom from warrantless wiretaps, loss of due process (hello terrorist watch list), freedom from enhanced interrogation, National Security Letters, Guantanamo Bay, extraordinary rendition, freedom from assassination (sorry, targeted killing), freedom from secret courts (separate from the loss of due process), and I could keep going.

      If you went back 50 years and told someone this is what the USA would become,
      they'd laugh and say that you're describing Soviet Russia or East Berlin.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    59. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Wow did you misunderstand me. I was trying to say that the OP does not want to help weapons but is fine having them used by others to protect him. I would call that a hypocrite. I am not a gunophobe the OP is.

    60. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Not quite. Has the US exterminated 8 million Jews or 5 million Ukrainians? Is Europe Democratic or Communist? Does Kuwait, Israel, South Korea and Taiwan still exist? Is Tunisia still controlled by Qaddafi? You are very self centered if you only look at the US.

      Most of the things you state do not effect the average person.

    61. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was posting in Gaelic.

    62. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >If you went back 50 years and told someone this is what the USA would become,they'd laugh and say that you're describing Soviet Russia or East Berlin.

      And yet highly educated people still go out of their way to come to the US. Like the other guy, you're more than welcome to GTFO to modern day Russia and find out what oppression really feels like, my dear pampered child.

    63. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      without weapons manufacture most of the world would be speaking German or Russian by now.

      "And if we can't have peace, then we'll destroy the people who screwed up the peace..." --Christopher Titus

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    64. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      And in the 20th century Spain was mostly a ghetto and the rest of the Spanish speaking countries, banana republics were mainly dealing with internal conflict (or US intervention *cough* Guatemala *cough*; all of South America has been peaceful since the Bolivar republic split over 100 years ago; China hasn't had a military victory of note in the last 120 years, which is why I explicitly said 20th century. Thanks for the irrelevant 400-year history lesson, though.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    65. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by r.freeman · · Score: 1

      Yeap I was replying to OP; Either way I agree weapons are no more "evil" they say a hammer is.

    66. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Are you quoting this Christopher Titus.

    67. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without weapons we would still be beating each other at the head with sticks.

    68. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      German copyright law has an exception for national security, so they would not be breaking the license.

    69. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by GNious · · Score: 1

      instead, most of the world's population now speak Mandarin or Hindi :)

    70. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again I call for the GPLv4 to become the 'good public license'.
      Cannot be used for weapon manufacturing or mass surveillance... or anything defined as 'evil' by a FSF committee.

      We are talking about someone who is manufacturing weapons used to kill people. Why can't they just strip the license and use the software anyway?
      It's not like anyone will be allowed into their facilities to check what software they are using and if they get sued it will be "managed" in secret courts because of national security.
      When you are dealing with criminals you can not assume that they will follow rules, if that worked I would put up a sign that prevented people from breaking into my home.

    71. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So without weapons, how would the Germans or Russians achieve that? Really good novels? Plays? What a nightmare indeed.

    72. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know if there are many weapon systems using linux. Most manufacturers have standardized on this OS made by Green Hills: http://www.ghs.com/products/rtos/integrity.html

    73. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by stoploss · · Score: 1

      There has never been a warhead that "provided" any freedom, not in my lifetime, and not in yours.

      Interesting consideration: as you know, the founders feared the outcome of having a standing army, and we aren't supposed to have one. Thanks to our nuclear warheads, we could disband our army and still have an effective deterrent against nuclear attack or invasion. In this (sadly far-fetched) scenario, the existence of warheads that enabled the safe disbanding of the army would implicitly "provide" freedom.

    74. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by strikethree · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure it would make much difference to be speaking German or Russian or Japanese or Chinese or have to profess belief in a different god. If you survived the war, you will still have the same shitty job living hand to mouth... just a different master.

      I am an American. Granted, the chains of slavery are heavy, but the quality of the slavery is still different. I have more intellectual freedom in America than I would anywhere else in the world. Even that limited subset of freedom is imperfect but it is better than nothing.

      The fight for freedom must continue until no ultimate authority is necessary but that is not a reason to ignore the differing qualities of freedom that are possible. While purity of freedom is desired, impure freedom should not be tossed aside merely because it is impure. It is a step towards purity.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    75. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I agree that we should all strive for more freedom and that, of course, some societies are more free than others. The more egalitarian a society, the less "authority" is needed.
      My comment was more about the futility of getting into a war and being manipulated to support wars. Post WWII, I can't think of a war that was started by the US or joined by the US that benefited its citizens. There have certainly been great costs in lives, morbidity and dollars as well as loss of freedom. The war on terror has exacted a great toll on our freedoms. Politicians and corporations have largely profited from the wars.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    76. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Actually you are incorrect as the top two languages are Mandarin and Spanish. The Mandarin speakers would be speaking Japanese and many of the Spanish would be speaking German. My point was that WW2 would have turned out very differently if the US had not manufactured arms and non-native languages would be imposed by conquerors..

    77. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      As opposed to the utopia of freedom and joy we have now?

      You're welcome to GTFO to another country and find out what oppression really feels like, my dear pampered child.

      BRAAP! AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM ALERT

      Guantanamo Bay is one of the most brutal prisons in the world, along with the CIA's black sites. A lot of the prisoners would rather commit suicide, but they're not allowed to do that.

      During the Cold War, the Communists used to say, "Well, what about your Negroes in the South?" They were right. Millions of black people were living under oppression as bad as any other country. Try to vote -- get killed. Kill a Negro -- go free. In fact, you can still kill a Negro and go free very often today. A lot of Negroes did GTFO and found a lot of countries, like Canada or France, that gave them more freedom than they had here.

      We also killed about 3 million native Americans.

      After Pete Seeger died, I looked up his testimony before the House Un-American Activities Committee https://archive.org/details/in... -- and I also read the testimony of other musicians and writers. FYI, at that time, we purged the American entertainment and movie industry of anyone who challenged the corporate hegemony. Seeger, who had tremendous courage in standing up before HUAC (and wasn't a Communist), would have gone to jail like many others, but he was saved by a legal technicality, thanks to a Supreme Court that believed in the Constitution. Today the Supreme Court would have sent him to jail. Seeger did have his passport revoked, like Paul Robeson and Linus Pauling.

      And that's how 40 families wound up owning half the capital in America, and more than half of the government.

      For more examples of American oppression see Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States.

      I'd rather follow Seeger's example, stay here and fight American corporate oppression, hopeless as it looks, than GTFO.

      The real danger to America are the uber-patriots who claim that we have no problems.

    78. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I don't know - have you been whisked away to a detention camp where you'll be starved, tortured, and then murdered for posting this anti-government rhetoric?

      No, but I knew people who were.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    79. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      The 3 million people that we killed in Vietnam, the 500,000 people we killed in the Iraq war, and the others killed in our miscellaneous wars and proxy wars like the ones in Chile, Argentina, Nicaragua, and Haiti, didn't give me any freedom. Quite the opposite.

    80. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by nbauman · · Score: 2

      One could limit the scope of 'evil' to weapons of mass destruction.

      I guess that's a valid debate.

      And it will still be possible to make them without our software...
      I just don't want to have helped them!

      We make software because of that warm fuzzy feeling. Not to know that it contributes to killing people (from whatever country).

      I know how you feel. I was studying engineering in the 1960s.

      A lot of us came to the conclusion that when we graduated, our jobs would be in the military-industrial complex, designing weapons to kill people, and not for good ends. My roommate and I both changed our major. He founded the campus chapter of Students for a Democratic Society.

      We and the Soviets had missiles with hydrogen bombs targeting each other which were enough to blow up the world. Finally the weapons designers and other scientists and engineers on both sides (including Andre Sakharov) got together and figured out how to use their influence to stop it.

    81. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect that you are American and only speak one language.
      You have to be, otherwise you would realize that the rest of the world doesn't care if they have to learn German or English.

    82. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Have you ever heard of deterrence? Apparently not.

      Once we and the Soviets had enough warheads to destroy each other several times over, we didn't need additional deterrence. But we just kept building them.

      We reached a point where the risks of an accidental war were greater than the risks of whatever we were deterring.

      Building warheads for the military was very profitable. As Dwight Eisenhower said, these things take on a life of their own.

    83. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Isn't this what we want all government agencies to strive for? When the military's actual job is to figure out how to kill people and destroy things with maximum effectiveness and efficiency, then we really shouldn't complain when they seem to be doing a good job of it. I'm not exactly sure what this writer thought the military's purpose is, but he seems horrified at the thought of using technology to kill people more efficiently.

      Wrong. According to Clausowitz, the purpose of the military is to implement policy. That was the mistake GWB made in Iraq. He sent the military into Iraq to kill the "bad guys." Outfits like Blackwater went around killing people indiscriminately. Then when the next Americans showed up, they didn't get a good reception.

      Guess what? When you kill people, they kill you back.

      Now, GWB has basically handed Iraq over to al Qaeda and similar militants. Heckuva job, Bushie.

    84. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Is there another Christopher Titus out there you think I might be referring to? Fairly unique name, no?

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    85. Re:GPLv4 - the good public license? by slew · · Score: 1

      Which is why I explicitly said 20th century.

      ...Because the language people speak in various lands around the world was decided by military actions in the 20th century?

      Thanks for the irrelevant 400-year history lesson, though.

      No, no, thank you for confirming what I was thinking...

  3. Cool. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All you bastards are going to hell.

  4. Desired lethality? by dixonpete · · Score: 1

    In any other context the scriptor of those words would be considered a mass murderer/psychopath.

    1. Re:Desired lethality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stern squeamish?

    2. Re:Desired lethality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure he isn't?

      LOL, captcha: demonic.

    3. Re:Desired lethality? by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 2

      Let's say on Monday you are ordered to bomb a large military base. You want a warhead with the largest lethality radius possible- to kill as many enemy soldiers and destroy as much equipment as possible.

      On Tuesday you're ordered to bomb a house occupied by an enemy commander, and you notice that it's a block away from a school. You now want a different warhead that contains its destructive force to a much smaller radius and just destroys the target without killing nearby civilians.

      If used properly, the concept is actually the opposite of what a mass murdered/psychopath would want.

    4. Re:Desired lethality? by citylivin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You consider someone who bombs people on monday and then again on tuesday not a mass murderer?

      "I was only following orders" is not a defence. Most soldiers are probably murderers, unless obviously, they haven't killed someone.

      Your point is that people following orders aren't murderers, well that's where we disagree. You kill someone, you are a murderer. A moral judgement on the circumstances is the only thing that makes it palatable and justifiable in some peoples minds.

      --
      As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    5. Re:Desired lethality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You consider someone who bombs people on monday and then again on tuesday not a mass murderer?

      If they are bombing members of a military force that they are currently in open hostilities with then no, that is not a mass murder because it isn't murder. If you kill a combatant during the course of conflict you are not committing murder. Now, if that person is no longer a combatant (prisoner, wounded, etc) and you kill them it is murder. But otherwise it is a perfectly accepted act.

    6. Re:Desired lethality? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Have you seen the movie The Big Red One? If you haven't then you should. There is a conversation in that movie about the distinction between killing and murder. Sometimes the people in the different color uniform are acting like animals, these animals are killed, not murdered. Is killing a rabid dog murder? No, because only innocent people can be murdered. All people can be killed. Enemy combatants are not murdered, they are killed before they can murder.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    7. Re:Desired lethality? by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      Hmm, so if your target was someone who has been killing innocent people, and the three choices for you were:
      1. Ignore it and hope the target just decides to stop
      2. Go in with ground force, with all the casualties on both sides that would result
      3. Drop a bomb to wipe out the threat with as little casualties as possible

      You're telling me #3 isn't the better choice here? Because it is... and because it is, that's what happens. When it happens, are you trying to say you'd rather we drop fuel-air bombs in crowded neighborhoods instead of precision munitions? Because I have to say the controlled destruction is just a teensy bit better than blowing the whole neighborhood to shit...

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    8. Re:Desired lethality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      accepted? Fuck, it's expected. In fact not doing so willfully is likely to get you into trouble.

    9. Re:Desired lethality? by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Sometimes the people in the different color uniform are acting like animals, these animals are killed, not murdered.

      Enemy combatants are not murdered,

      The intentional death of a human being is always murder.
      Societies then create moral and legal exemptions to allow murders that the people consider necessary.

      Sometimes the people (in uniform) dehumanize the enemy to make it easier to murder them.
      It's an extremely ugly road to go down: http://i.imgur.com/riixJyL.jpg
      And I'm not exaggerating: http://i.imgur.com/ODMmE5i.jpg

      I'm glad we're civilized enough to have stopped making dehumanizing propaganda the official government policy.
      I hope you can catch up with the civilized world.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    10. Re:Desired lethality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GP's just a doofus, lives in some shiny glass house where everyone outside just wants to bake him brownies and entertain him with dancing. Ignorance is bliss.

    11. Re:Desired lethality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The intentional death of a human being is always murder."

      You must be joking or very stupid.

      If you see someone with a machine gun blasting away a playground of children and you shoot them in the head to kill and therefore stop them, that is murder? A human body can take tremendous damage and still continue working. It is likely that only a head shot that disrupts their central nervous system will stop them quickly. It is intentionally killing them, no doubt about it. And yet that is murder because it was an intentional death and that is always murder.

      How sick can you get?

    12. Re:Desired lethality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a person. If I kill someone in self-defense because that's the only way I get to keep living, it's not murder. Similarly, it's not murder to kill enemy combatants as long as you are legally authorized to do so. It may be morally wrong in some cases, but a killing can be wrong without it being murder.

  5. Good for them by fustakrakich · · Score: 3

    I'm all for efficient killing... wouldn't want to break a nail.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Good for them by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Especially if you want to make things more appealing for the GLBT & W communities.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    2. Re:Good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know if I'm comfortable with our precious homosexuals desiring to kill others.

    3. Re:Good for them by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

      Exactly! And since they can make the plans available for download, they can take a step further and print the warheads and detonators directly at the target site. This will save costs on building a delivery system and associated consumables, such as fuel.

      It's green *and* efficient. What could be better?

  6. It's as easy as pressing "print" by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    I know of other groups who would be very interested in being able to print warheads... and might not be able to build anything but primitive warheads with their current technology. I hope they're better at keeping secrets than other branches of government.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  7. Quality over quantity by sobachatina · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For a long time it hasn't been about how to "kill more people" but rather how to kill "the right people" more efficiently.

    We put a huge amount of effort and money into weapon systems that will minimize collateral damage.

    As much as it is popular to vilify the US- none of our opponents seem to care as much who they blow up.

    1. Re:Quality over quantity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you actually believe this, or are you just copy-pasting the standard hawkish counterpoint?

      By what measure has the US killed fewer people than its enemies, please? Are you discounting the dirty work done by foreign militaries which have been installed or supported by the US?

    2. Re:Quality over quantity by mspohr · · Score: 0, Troll

      Israel is currently using these fine US weapons to kill as many civilians as possible. I don't think they care very much about the health and welfare of the people in the concentration camp they have established in Gaza. The US (at least the politicians) don't seem to mind this carnage.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    3. Re:Quality over quantity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel is currently using these fine US weapons to kill as many civilians as possible. I don't think they care very much about the health and welfare of the people in the concentration camp they have established in Gaza. The US (at least the politicians) don't seem to mind this carnage.

      Godwin achieved!

    4. Re:Quality over quantity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you actually believe this, or are you just copy-pasting the standard hawkish counterpoint?

      Right back at ya.

    5. Re:Quality over quantity by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The US (at least the politicians) don't seem to mind this carnage.

      John Kerry is rather upset about it. He seems to think that if only Israel gives Palestinians the right to return, then the Palestinians will want to live in peace.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:Quality over quantity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is by far the funniest thing I've read today.

      If Israel wanted to kill all of the people in Gaza they could fairly easily. They have the ordinace to simply level the entire area in a methodical fashion. Folow that up with some firebombing, and very little will live through that unless it is extremely well bunkered with independant air supplies (fires that large don't need to burn you to kill you, they simply out compete you for oxygen)

  8. Demented. by westlake · · Score: 2

    Cannot be used for weapon manufacturing or mass surveillance... or anything defined as 'evil' by a FSF committee.

    Unpredictable and self-righteous. It would utterly destroy GPLv4 as a viable open source license and the ripple effect would be devastating,

  9. GPLv4 - the good public license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you are looking for already exists. The Hacktivismo Enhanced-Source Software License Agreement (HESSLA) is a license that implements certain restrictions on software use, based on the universal declaration of human rights.

    However, because of these additional restrictions, it cannot be considered to be a free software license in the strict sense even though it shares many similarities. It is unlikely that the FSF/RMS will ever create a similar license, as they criticized the HESSLA for beeing ineffectice (as others have mentioned, governments and the "defense industry" will simply ignore the restrictions) while harming the free software movement due to incompatibilities with other licenses.

    If you really want to do something against oppressive, war-mongering governments, trying to make use of the law controlled by the same people is hardly going to be effective. Instead, it would be more beneficial if we focused our efforts on a technical level where we can actually make a difference, e.g. by making surveillance harder by using secure, standardized protocols.

  10. What's the problem? by Jiro · · Score: 2

    In its latest bid to kill more people, more efficiently, and at less cost, the army is...

    You *do* know what the purpose of an army is, right?

    What other choices would you prefer? The army shouldn't kill people? The army should kill people inefficiently?

  11. Kill fewer. Carpet bombing would be much easier by raymorris · · Score: 1

    >> In its latest bid to kill more people, more efficiently, and at less cost

    > Isn't this what we want all government agencies to strive for? When the military's actual job is to figure out how to kill people and destroy things with maximum effectiveness

    In WWII the US military wanted to kill more people, more efficiently. They were pretty good at it.
    Since then, it seems the challenge has been to find ways to kill the FEWEST possible number of people, while achieving a strategic goal. We tried to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis. Germans - we just blew them up.

  12. Re:Kill fewer. Carpet bombing would be much easier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In WWII the US military wanted to kill more people, more efficiently. They were pretty good at it. Since then, it seems the challenge has been to find ways to kill the FEWEST possible number of people, while achieving a strategic goal. We tried to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis. Germans - we just blew them up.

    You are mistaken. The US actually tried to minimize civilian casualties at the cost of greater US casualties. For example the US bombers generally conducted daytime raids so they could better identify targets and do precision bombing.

  13. Bias much? by rebelwarlock · · Score: 1

    In its latest bid to kill more people

    Let me know when you have an objective article I can read. Also, thanks for showing your bias instantly in the summary so I knew not to bother clicking on anything.

  14. Re:Kill fewer. Carpet bombing would be much easier by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

    "Germans - we just blew them up." Ignoring, of course, everything leading up to our entry.

  15. This is actually a Good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On today's battlefield, one of the major issues is collateral damage. Most of our weapon systems are designed for "wide area warfare" situations were the target is in the field - think a tank on the plains of Europe - instead of "next door to a school." What this gives the army is the eventual ability to use "sniping" level munitions in instead of "blockbusters." It takes several years, using todays weapons development protocols, for a new warhead to make its way to the front lines. This tech gives the near-to-front-line mission planners to pick up the phone and tell a weapons tech: "I have a target within the windowless front room of this building, with a school in the floor above, and civilians all around it. I need a warhead for a Hellfire class missile that will penetrate reinforced concrete, detonate five inches from the far wall, with a burst radius of two meters and vertical ogive fragmentation pattern, while leaving these other rooms untouched." Instead of "Put a SDB through this wall. Unfortunately, this will kill everyone within 50 meters."

    I personally would much rather see headlines of "US Army kills one target in crowded shopping mall, getting a little blood on a bystander's shirt" versus "US Army locates target but had to let them get away because there were to many civilians in the target zone."

  16. beside the point. Had reasons, yes by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Sure there are reasons that our methods have changed, of course. That's just not really related to the point I was making. TFS claims that the military is trying to find ways to kill more people, and that's simply the opposite of the truth. They've been working on ways to only blow up a specific room rather than blowing up a building or a city block. Secondly, IF they wanted to kill lots of people, they wouldn't need need to work on methods to do so. They've had the B-52 for 60 years or so. A single B-52 could kill thousands of people per day if you wanted it to. We COULD have wiped out Iraq in about a day and half. Building a democracy in Iraq is much, much more difficult than killing them would be.

  17. Re:Kill fewer. Carpet bombing would be much easier by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

    You are mistaken. The US actually tried to minimize civilian casualties at the cost of greater US casualties. For example the US bombers generally conducted daytime raids so they could better identify targets and do precision bombing.

    Don't misunderstand the US intentions during WWII. The theory going into the war was that air power alone could destroy a country's infrastructure and win the war alone. Obviously, that turned out in hindsight to be wildly optimistic, but they did put a lot of additional pressure on industrial production. The idea was to more effectively damage war industries. I don't recall seeing evidence that avoiding civilian casualties was a significant goal. Cities were avoided early in the war simply for fear of retaliation, but once a single accidental bombing triggered reciprocal bombings by the British, both allies and axis forces bombed civilians with gusto. The US was simply fortunate to be too far away to be attacked effectively, although the Japanese certainly tried *.

    Look up the Dresden or Tokyo firebombings. The scale of destruction in those attacks was comparable to an atomic bomb attack of the time. In short, they were horrific events, and supposedly, even the hardened Winston Churchill supposedly blanched when he saw the damage that had been done in those attacks. Curtis LeMay, head of the US army air corp, once remarked that he probably would have been tried as a war criminal had the US lost the war. That being said, we have to be fair - there WERE no such things as "smart" weapons (the Germans had the only one, as I recall), so there simply was no way to really avoid civilian casualties. The Japanese, in particular, utilized a lot of small, widely dispersed cottage industries, so there was little chance of precision strikes anyhow.

    I think it's hard for modern civilians to put ourselves into the mindset of that war. Had we not bombed the Japanese into surrender, some US planners estimated that our troops would have suffered anywhere from half a million to several million casualties attempting to take the Japanese mainland, and up to 10 million Japanese would likely have perished, having demonstrated a frighting propensity for defending to the death. What's more, it's possible the Soviet Union would have invaded as well, and Japan may well have been split into communist and western spheres, like so many other post-war nations. Interesting fact from Wikipedia: We manufactured so many purple hearts in anticipation of that invasion (500,000) that we were able to use that stockpile of combat medals for the next 50+ years. We probably have about a hundred thousand or so left until we have to make a new batch.

    As horrible as it sounds, the hammer blows of the nuclear bombs may have saved millions of lives, including Japanese lives. There was no real evidence that the Japanese were entertaining surrender at that time. Dropping a nuke on inhabited cities is neither something to be proud of, nor should we expect forgiveness for it, but it's important to see the actions in their proper context. It was an ugly finish to an ugly war, and we should be glad we haven't seen anything like it since.

    I don't mean to belittle those who feel strongly against weapon development (ok, maybe just a bit of teasing). After all, if more people felt like them, the world would probably be a better place for everyone. Even so, I think it's best to keep a realistic view of the current world situation, and to keep a broader historical perspective in mind.

    * We had our own wacky bomb project designed to strike back at Japan, but unlike the Japanese balloon bombs, the project never saw fruition. Likewise, the British had

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  18. not just any orders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I gave you orders to kill somebody, and you follow them, that makes you a murderer... unless I am a head of state.

    The state maintains a monopoly on legitimate violence. Murder can only occur outside of this monopoly; that is part of the definition.

    You'd rather redefine murder to be a synonym for "killing". That would be a kind of Newspeak, simplifying our language so that complex and subtle things can not be expressed.

  19. Thanks, Jim Zunino... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...for all the good work you're doing for the advancement of humanity.

  20. Safe warheads? by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Did I just read people want to design warheads to improve safety? Whoever said that should be locked up in a mental institution.

    1. Re:Safe warheads? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Safety of a warhead specifically means how likely it is to cause damage to a non-target.

  21. Whole lot of verbiage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In summary: Military modernizes missile manufacture.

    Has there ever been a time when a nation's military did not utilize the most advanced techniques known. Ok, with the exception of the French from the late 19th to early 20th Centuries.