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Enraged Verizon FiOS Customer Seemingly Demonstrates Netflix Throttling

MojoKid (1002251) writes The ongoing battle between Netflix and ISPs that can't seem to handle the streaming video service's traffic, boiled over to an infuriating level for Colin Nederkoon, a startup CEO who resides in New York City. Rather than accept excuses and finger pointing from either side, Nederkoon did a little investigating into why he was receiving such slow Netflix streams on his Verizon FiOS connection. What he discovered is that there appears to be a clear culprit. Nederkoon pays for Internet service that promises 75Mbps downstream and 35Mbps upstream through his FiOS connection. However, his Netflix video streams were limping along at just 375kbps (0.375mbps), equivalent to 0.5 percent of the speed he's paying for. On a hunch, he decided to connect to a VPN service, which in theory should actually make things slower since it's adding extra hops. Speeds didn't get slower, they got much faster. After connecting to VyprVPN, his Netflix connection suddenly jumped to 3000kbps, the fastest the streaming service allows and around 10 times faster than when connecting directly with Verizon. Verizon may have a different explanation as to why Nederkoon's Netflix streams suddenly sped up, but in the meantime, it would appear that throttling shenanigans are taking place. It seems that by using a VPN, Verizon simply doesn't know which packets to throttle, hence the gross disparity in speed.

17 of 398 comments (clear)

  1. Could be a different route involved for the VPN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is also possible the the VPN packets are transiting a different upstream peer from Verizon and bypassing the peering bottleneck at issue. Assuming that Verizon is performing inspection of packets and throttling only Netflix packets is quite a leap.

    1. Re:Could be a different route involved for the VPN by knightghost · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not so much of a leap since Verizon and Comcast have admitted to such.

      Wouldn't a simple tracert show the route (and any differences)?

    2. Re:Could be a different route involved for the VPN by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is also possible the the VPN packets are transiting a different upstream peer from Verizon and bypassing the peering bottleneck at issue. Assuming that Verizon is performing inspection of packets and throttling only Netflix packets is quite a leap.

      Failing to have peerage agreements in place to honor your downstream sales commitments is a form of throttling - Or, I would daresay, a form of outright fraud.

      If I offer to sell you "unlimited" beers from my fridge for $50 a month, but I only resupply it at a rate of one six-pack per week, I have intentionally cheated you. That basic relationship doesn't magically change because of some hand-waving technobabble about peerage agreements and network congestion.

      (Yes, I know those don't strictly count as technobabble, and what they really mean - But they effectively reduce to Verizon having zero interest in upgrading its infrastructure to support its commitments to their customers as long as the FCC and FTC will allow them to outright lie)

    3. Re:Could be a different route involved for the VPN by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I offer to sell you "unlimited" beers from my fridge for $50 a month, but I only resupply it at a rate of one six-pack per week, I have intentionally cheated you. That basic relationship doesn't magically change because of some hand-waving technobabble about peerage agreements and network congestion.

      This analogy is a little flawed. Let me correct it. Let us say the local municipality has granted pla (258480) a local monopoly in selling beer to its residents. And you sell beer at different service level all unlimited number of trips to the fridge, but at 1 trip/hr, 1trip/6 hours, 1 trip/min, 1 trip/sec etc. And you stock it with brewed-by-your-local-sewage-company beer all the time, and stock Buds, Coors and Coronas one bottle a month. Then your analogy is complete.

      What is really insidious is, pla is NOT buying any beer. All the beer companies come stock the fridge for free. Pla's only cost is keeping the beer cool. And it does not cost any more to cool a bottle of Corona than to cool a bottle of brew-from-sewer. Just because pla noticed people are drinking Corona more, pla wants Corona to pay him more money. Remember it is a monopoly. Corona has no other way of selling its beer without going through pla's fridge. Now you get the idea.

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    4. Re:Could be a different route involved for the VPN by bigpat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is a load of horseshit!

      Or let me be clear. That is a load of horeshit technobabble meant to obfuscate and mislead. Level 3 was pretty clear the other day when they offered to spend a few thousand dollars to upgrade their links to Verizon. Level 3 is a backbone Internet provider. There is no reason that any link between it and another network should remain saturated if both sides are acting in good faith to serve their respective customers, especially when L3 was willing to pay the costs to upgrade Verizon's own equipement to handle more traffic which it shouldn't have had to do because it is Verizon's customers who are requesting and already paying for the content in the first place.

      Verizon is choosing to not upgrade its connections to shake down Netflix, and thus pass those costs on to Verizon customers. Period.

    5. Re:Could be a different route involved for the VPN by geoskd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      that link is dedicated netflix and it limits them to the amount of data they send. last year super hd was for a few selected ISP's but then netflix started sending it to everyone over Level 3 and screwed up everyone's service the point is netflix is trying to increase costs on their business partners who will then have to increase prices of their customers. customers will hate the ISP but like netflix. same strategy as TV companies have used with cable TV and forcing them to sell bundled channels, intel has done this, a lot of companies have done this. customer hates the company they do business with for high prices, but it's really because they are being forced to provide services some may not want current system is not perfect but it ensures that people who use the service pay the costs and not everyone pays

      Verizon was given an "out" and they refused to take it. Netflix offered to provide co-located CDNs, and all Verizon had to provide was electricity and space (both of which are negligible compared to the cost for Verizon to pay for bandwidth.) Verizon elected not to take the option that would save them money, deciding instead to play a stupid game of chicken with Netflix. While this idiot game may work with smaller companies, Netflix is now the 800Lb gorilla, and Verizon has nothing but downside on this deal. Their best bet would be to quietly put their tail between their legs and give Netflix the Co-lo's they had been asking for. Verizon needs to understand that they do not really have any chance at becoming a significant content provider, and they should know their place. (getting my bits from place to place.) They offer the consumer specific bandwidth, which as far as the consumer is concerned includes Netflix traffic. Verizon needs to understand that in the consumers mind, the customers pay Netflix to provide the bits, and they pay Verizon to get them from Netflix to their device. Verizon can claim all they want to about Netflix not paying for this, or not paying for that, but as far as I am concerned, I am paying Verizon to deliver the bandwidth door to door. I have already payed Verizon for it, and now they are failing to deliver what I paid for.

      --
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    6. Re:Could be a different route involved for the VPN by Xenx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As for number three.... Netflix is willing to provide their CDN hardware to ISPs for free. The ISP just has to house the hardware. I don't know enough about how all the back end works, so fair and equitable is up in the air. But, Verizon doesn't want to go that route without getting paid either.

    7. Re:Could be a different route involved for the VPN by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Never say "bandwidth provider" to a telco monopoly. It grates their teeth and raises their dental insurance. They've been staring down the barrel of this reality for 20 years and have done everything they can do, bought every politician and generally screamed bloody murder to get us to where we are. They seriously think the world wants to go back to using them as their AOL/Prodigy/Compuserve.

    8. Re:Could be a different route involved for the VPN by evilviper · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That is a load of horeshit technobabble meant to obfuscate and mislead.

      No, his explanation is spot-on. If "technobabble" means you didn't understand it, that's besides the point.

      There is no reason that any link between it and another network should remain saturated if both sides are acting in good faith to serve their respective customers

      Level-3 is acting in bad-faith in a couple different ways. Offering to give Verizon a small amount of money does not obviate the large ways in which they are acting badly, which will make them even more money.

      it is Verizon's customers who are requesting and already paying for the content in the first place.

      Customers pay both Verizon and Netflix. Both sides are supposed to pay their own costs of transit and bandwidth. Saying that Verizon should acquies to badly-behaving peers is a small step away from saying that Verizon should provide free internet services for every service their customers request.

      Verizon is choosing to not upgrade its connections to shake down Netflix

      Verizon is choosing not to upgrade it's peering points with Level-3 because they are no longer evenly sharing traffic up/down as all free peering arrangements have ALWAYS required, yet Level-3 doesn't want to pay for the imbalance, and Netflix doesn't want to shift some of their Verizon traffic to a different transit provider than Level-3.

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  2. Alternative explanation by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Routing traffic via the VPN changes the path the traffic flows over, possibly avoiding routes that are saturated and (who knows) pending upgrade.

    It's tempting to imagine the internet as a giant blob of fungible bandwidth, but in reality it's just a big mess of cables some of which are higher capacity than others. Assuming malice is fun, but there isn't enough data here to say one way or another.

    1. Re: Alternative explanation by kqs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, Netflix (and Youtube and some others large ones) don't buy CDN hosting; they offer it. They offer free CDN servers which large ISPs can put in their datacenters. Doesn't matter how much Netflix offered to pay, I doubt if any existing CDN could handle Netflix's traffic along with their other customers.

      Many ISPs take advantage of this, but Verizon would rather degrade Netflix's products so they can push their own products.

    2. Re:Alternative explanation by Drakonblayde · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect that whats going on is that Netflix put the majority of their traffic on Level3 and Level3 is trying to charge Verizon an exorbitant rate for enough bandwidth to handle that peer. Verizon said "No" and told Netflix to go with another peer. So Verizon has plenty of bandwidth, Netflix has plenty of bandwidth... it's where those peers are located that's the problem.

      Ok, but you're wrong.

      Level3 has admitted they have settlement free peering with Verizon. Level3 does not pay Verizon anything. Verizon does not pay Level3 anything.

      Netflix pays Level3. This is why Level3 gives a shit about this situation.

      What's going on is that Verizon is trying to cut out the middleman. Verizon wants Netflix to pay them to get traffic into their network instead of paying Level3 to deliver traffic into the Verizon network. Why? Because they don't make any money from Level3.

      Naturally, Level3 is all in a huff about Verizon trying to fuck with their revenue stream.

  3. Role reversal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to wonder, what would happen if customers were to start throttling the payment of ISP's?
    "You will get your payment when you actually fulfil your end of our contract, but not before."

  4. Re:Thanks by Casualposter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    SO when you pay for that service it says something like "up to 75mbps" which in reality means that the speed test and google's home page could see that much speed and everyone else will look like dial up from the 1990's.

    It would be much better if the services had to advertise their average speed across the most popular sites. That way if they throttle Netflix to .375mpbs, they have to inform customers that while they are paying $125/month for "blazing fast speed" they are actually getting blazingly fast dial up speeds.

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  5. Re: Do they deserve the benefit of the doubt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You win the most absurd analogy ever award.

  6. Re:Thanks by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wrong..

    It is fraid for any ISP to purposely limit speed and bandwidth below the advertised speed speed while the network can handle it (congestion). No matter how you look at it, the up to speeds will never be availible when they purposely limit it.

    This should be dealt with by consumer protection law (paying for services not delivered and possibly bait and switch or a host of others). People need to complain in those terms to thier state utilities commision or consumer protection department and file lawsuits over the said laws. Verizon and other ISPs will stop doing it and possibly be fined in the process.

  7. Re:Thanks by mysidia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It will probably end up pissing off ISPs to the point of either finding ways of faking the data, blocking the data, or just as policy telling customers to ignore the speed numbers.

    If the data is blocked, the browser should figure out why and explain to the user that there seems to be an issue with their network; in other words "Blocking" should make it even worse for the ISP. a smarter browser UI could be a tremendous help to support technicians, which the ISPs should absolutely love ---- perhaps even tell the user exactly which entity to contact, even display their ISP's support number on the screen, to help accelerate the problem resolution process, and providing access to comments by other users of the same ISP, leading to happier customers, and customers who can share info with each other pertinent to troubleshooting or why this is happening, etc.

    A lot of people won't be able to distinguish when something is their ISP's fault and when it might be the end servers fault.

    I am suggesting the browser should also take some responsibility to the interpretation of the results here. There should be a highly visible "troubleshooting" button that causes some tests to be run. Explanations should be right there in a natural language that any English speaker could understand.

    The browser should not show an alert if there is not enough data to make a conclusion with a fair measure of statistical confidence.

    We can definitely make a strong distinguishment between a "web site performance issue" and a client connectivity issue, with data from a sufficient number of users.

    The browser would also need to take into account geographic location and client connectivity, however.

    e.g. Is the site slow because the visitor is half way around the world from the nearest mirror, or is it slow because they're connecting over congested WiFi or 3G networks, instead of a wired connection?

    I realize it's not "easy", but the web browser is the only software component that is in a position to take the kinds of measurements that are required and help alert the user to the problem, tell the user which entity they should contact, and assist with troubleshooting.