Slashdot Mirror
Private Data On iOS Devices Not So Private After All
theshowmecanuck (703852) writes with this excerpt from Reuters summarizing the upshot of a talk that Jonathan Zdziarski gave at last weekend's HOPE conference:
Personal data including text messages, contact lists and photos can be extracted from iPhones through previously unpublicized techniques by Apple Inc employees, the company acknowledged this week. The same techniques to circumvent backup encryption could be used by law enforcement or others with access to the 'trusted' computers to which the devices have been connected, according to the security expert who prompted Apple's admission. Users are not notified that the services are running and cannot disable them, Zdziarski said. There is no way for iPhone users to know what computers have previously been granted trusted status via the backup process or block future connections.
If you'd rather watch and listen, Zdziarski has posted a video showing how it's done.
These so-called "smart telephones" aren't telephones at all; they are computers. Computers that you cannot control. And if you aren't, who is?
Some folks thought Richard Stallman was crazy for saying no-one should run software or use hardware that is based on clandestine (proprietary, hidden) knowledge. This latest revelation is just one reason he was right all along.
The more we buy devices whose master is someone else, the more things of this very nature will become a problem.
Do not buy devices that you do not control after you buy them. You must be able to run any kernel and any userspace you want, you must be able to control the machine top to bottom. If you give this up in exchange for convenience, then you will be taken advantage of by companies that don't have your interests at heart.
If you store sensitive stuff on your iPhone, don't make backups from it onto an insecure/unencrypted computer.
And if you were making backups from anything secure onto anything insecure, it is time to revise your security policy.
Almost all the reports are getting the gist of the paper wrong -- any press summation that doesn't go into the paper to understand it will get it wrong. The paper goes into deep detail that Apple has several services that, while protected by several layers of security that could be bypassed, can transfer data in the clear. There are also several services that don't have any obvious connecting software.
It's a rather deep hacker-style dive into iOS.
A good video about this is by TWiT Network. At http://twit.tv/sn465 Security Now ep 465 has expert Steve Gibson explain the actual paper.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Apparently not so safe.
The "researcher" and Reuters forgot to clearly call out that for the information to be extracted with the developer tools an iOS device must be trusted. Trust is established by plugging the device into a computer and the device MUST be unlocked.
This is akin to giving someone you don't trust a key to your house.
These *attacks* require the attacker to have the keys from a trusted computer. Is your linux secure if you give somebody the root pass? Is your house safe if you give a friend the keys? These "security" headlines are just clickbait.
The it only works with a trusted device AND the device being unlocked.
If you gave your device PIN to someone, they already have your data and don't need to do this.
Due to the great advances in technology and the continuing reduction in cost of these technologies, what were previously "dumb" devices are now extremely sophisticated computers doing specialized tasks but they are not limited to these specialized task or to being used in the manner they were conceived for. As such almost all modern device from cameras to mp3 players can be re-purposed as digital "snitches". This is often true even if the device was not design or envisioned to so from the beginning or had countermeasures to inhibit the use of the device in that way. Such sophisticated devices can be reprogrammed or "hacked". Just accept this as true and if you can't due the research and enlighten yourself. So the only practical recourse is accept it and be careful if you have a good reason to believe your data is incriminating to you. Assume all devices have vulnerabilities or use paper instead and hope everyone has forgotten how to read that way.
Already debunked.
Irresponsible post.
When did Apple admit to anything? They said the researcher was wrong and described the settings that he found and what they are used for! I would trust Apple over Google any day! Eric Schmidt has lied so many times along with his colleagues that the whole company isn't trustful!
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6331
http://www.macrumors.com/2014/07/22/apple-ios-backdoors-support-document/
No, you can't retrieve anything from my computers in that way even with my root password.
The encryption keys are my own and I have full control over them.
In the TFA case, apple has control over your keys.
It's hardly "copying the keys". It's simply connecting the device to some PC and then finding yourself vurnerable for remote attacks. After you are aware that something like that is possible, it of course makes sense to be careful, but otherwise - how would you even expect it to be possible? Especially if you're not tech-savvy? No sane security design should allow something like that, especially on things like mobile phones or tablets that are often connected to various other devices at various places.
In the TFA case, apple has control over your keys.
False. The private keys are unique to the phone and the paired device. The public keys are shared between the two when they are paired. Apple doesn't have have the private keys (or the public keys for that matter), and thus cannot read either side of the communication.
iPhones have always been able to sync data out of their secure storage to the user's computer since launch. How did people think USB sync worked? Magical leprechauns that flew out of your phone carrying the data?
Heck, one of these is the developer daemon that runs on the phone to install apps from Xcode. Again, how exactly did people think Xcode did that?
These tools all require the phone be logged in, and that the right key exchange take place.
I can't tell if the "security researcher" here is just trolling, has never actually used an iPhone, it is just stupid.
apple response here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT...
JZ's response response here: http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/...
dropping some fact bombs on this conversation.
NOT!
and yet /. folk cheer on the demise of BlackBerry.. the one phone that has a near flawless security record.
and yes, full disclosure, I own a z10. I also find it to be the best smart phone I've ever owned with battery life that my android friends can only dream about.
One might do this if they want to gain access to your phone next year instead of just today. If I compromise your computer today, you may find out about it and wipe your drive. As I understand it, this attack would allow me to continue accessing your phone's data even after the computer you sync to has been secured.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this attack sounds like it would let your friend make a copy of the key, and even if you changed the locks on your house, his copy would still work.
Yeah, you know me! Why trust Other People's Encryption? If you encrypt data yourself, you control who can decrypt it - unless all crypto algorithms are compromised. When Google or Apple encrypt on your behalf, you don't really know what they're doing.
Answering your linux question, yes my linux computer is safe if i give someone my root password because many linux distro's dont allow direct root login.
"By default, the Root account password is locked in Ubuntu. This means that you cannot login as Root directly or use the su command to become the Root user. "
Perhaps you can define exactly what it means to "jailbreak" an iDevice? Seems you do something to gain "root" access? Remember when simply going to a website would root your phone?
It's enough to have a friend PC compromised, where you connected your iPhone once, a year ago, to recharge your battery and you don't even remember that now. When his computer is compromised, your phone becomes compromised as well and vulnerable to remote attacks.
That's a bit different story than what you described above.
Sure man, trivial. It happens to everybody every day of the week. Seriously, do you guys have a bit of common sense? If you have malware slurping the keys, the malware can already be slurping the synced data of the phone, which is the point of this attack. Why go roundaway to something you already have access to on the machine? For the lulz? And don't tell me there might be data on the phone that is not on the machine, because then I claim you wouldn't be syncing in the first place the phone, neither to Apple iCloud, neither to your own machine.
All the case scenarios you guys are painting are the equivalent of xkcd 538.
Um... hello there? XKCD 538 is important here. Just look at the Slashdot stories, and you will see abuses left and right, and this is by every single government out there.
Take the UK, a judge can ask a person 30-50 times for their password, each no is 3-4 years in Her Majesty's prison system, due to RIPA. Other places like Syria and most of the Middle East will answer a "no" with 240VAC to the regions of the body normally used for reproduction... and likely to family members too.
So, it is a big concern, and in iOS (which some people on Slashdot call "100% secure"), once a machine is "introduced"... it is mated for life. Want a divorce? Pair as new and don't restore from a backup as those keys will be back if you get your old data on the device.
As for Android... if really concerned about it, delete the keys and call it done. Some Android devices/ROMs by default tend to ask for permission each and every time when connected anyway.
In this case, Android wins this security issue. ADB, MTP, and PTP are known protocols. It isn't like iTunes where iOS's transfer protocol is a closed source mystery.
sudo xterm or sudo mc is how I get a root prompt under Ubuntu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
There's only one operating system in existence today that is worthy of even a small degree of trust: OpenBSD.
OpenBSD is the only operating system I know of that is open source, continually undergoes rigorous review, and has developers who put security above all else.
Since OpenBSD is the only operating system that is anywhere close to being secure, the only type of secure mobile device would be one running OpenBSD. I'm not aware of any of those, so it's obvious that any device not running OpenBSD should be considered insecure to begin with.
I'm an OpenBSD user, but just remember that the software a computer runs isn't the only thing that can be doing evil things. Realistically, you're never completely safe, even if I might decide to completely trust the OpenBSD developers, my nic card could be siphoning my data. I don't blindly trust them of course, not that I have evidence they do evil things, but it's the best OS I can figure for me since I'm not a programmer and I can't write my own. That and it's so simple to configure compared the the other monstrosities out there.
Except any sane person doesn't allow remote root logins.
I am not sure what you mean, it is clear you are the one who did not read or comprehend either the article or the post you responded to.
Huh? You think the user unlocking their device with their pass code and then agreeing to trust a computer the device is physically connected to is the same as a backdoor?
Nice to see the fanboy glossing over the issue...
Yes, you did gloss over the issue of Google being a Hipster marketing company.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.