Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Tip Leads To Child Porn Arrest In Pennsylvania
Shades of the recent arrest based on child porn images flagged by Google in an email, mrspoonsi writes A tip-off from Microsoft has led to the arrest of a man in Pennsylvania who has been charged with receiving and sharing child abuse images. It flagged the matter after discovering that an image involving a young girl had been allegedly saved to the man's OneDrive cloud storage account. According to court documents, the man was subsequently detected trying to send two illegal pictures via one of Microsoft's live.com email accounts. Police arrested him on 31 July.
Dropbox? Apple iCloud?
Sweet Jesus, if you're going to send things in the clear, you have no idea who might be able to lay eyes on it. This goes for storing things locally -- people have been busted for stored files when they take a machine in for repair as well.
When in doubt, encrypt. When not in doubt, get in doubt.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Why aren't these guys encrypting their stuff? I would imagine extra care are to be taken if they think what they are doing can be morally objectionable... And then it hit me that the NSA works like that too. Always blow on the morally objectionable stuff.
I don't understand the surprise people are experiencing from the revelation that Google and Microsoft scans the stuff you upload to their cloud storage systems.
You are literally giving them a copy of your files, and generally speaking, you also agreed to allow them to allow them to scan your stuff. Google Drive's terms of service explicitly states that your stuff will be scanned:
"Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection. This analysis occurs as the content is sent, received, and when it is stored. "
Why would anyone reasonably think that their stuff is somehow private when it's in the cloud?
My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
This is the sound of the panoptic, dystopian police state coming. Good luck everyone!
We all know what kind files they will scan for next. Because MPAA/RIAA are way more important than children!
In order to successfully perform these matches, Microsoft likely has one of the world's largest collection of child porn.
If only I had a large enough collection of tinfoil hats to sell to all the posters freaking out over this.
This cloud crap is just trash. At least use encryption (not theirs) or something.
Plus, they caught someone with images that shouldn't be illegal to have to begin with. When is an actual rapist going to be arrested?
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
This is what studying ethics/morality feels like. And this isn't exactly progress, unless you count "progressing to a police state". Many things in life are conflicts of various field of interest, and it is up to the philosophers/activists/lawyers/judges/lobbyists/legislature to figure them out.
Microsoft (or Google) getting a hit on a flagged image (or on image processing) means that they turn over the results of that hit to LEO.
If LEO works to arrest you based on that information, then you're subject to the justice system like any other suspected criminal.
You can argue that the justice system might have an axe to grind against pedo's, and you're probably right, but they're still afforded due process.
Witch hunts describe looking for things that aren't there - you know, witches. Sick fucks with pictures of exploited children are very, very real.
So I take it you will allow me to move in to your home and watch your every intimate movement? All in the name of making sure you aren't distributing child porn, of course.
No, and that is a ludicrous analogy.
It's more, I should not go into someone else's home, leave my stuff there, and when a legally-dubious thing happens to be in my stuff in their house, I should not expect them to simply let it go (considering that a lot of legally-dubious things have clauses about "conspiracy" and "required to report").
Hey, pedophiles have serious mental issues and deserve a special place in prison .
A pedophile is nothing more than a person who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. Not all pedophiles rape or even look at child porn, and not all child rapists are even necessarily pedophiles.
Also, why do they need a special place in prison? Why not 'normal' rapists, or murderers? Do they also get special places in prison? If not, then why single out this group? Because mentions of 'the children' cause your irrational brain to malfunction?
that you report the existence of any of this kind of stuff because of the harm that is caused to the children.
Voodoo is not real. Voodoo does not exist. Images will not harm people like voodoo dolls. Any 'harm' is caused by their own reaction, assuming that they even see it. But if the mere thought that an image of themselves could be out there is enough to make themselves emotionally unstable, then there is nothing that can be done for them, because censorship is - in practice - futile.
So in this case, it IS for the children and it's hard to argue with the logic.
No, it's easy, and that's because there is no logic; just a strong desire for more and more government control over what information is accessible to people.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
One of these days a hash collision will happen on an innocuous file and the jackboots will ruin someone's life over it.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Here's a novel idea...let's get the downloaders the mental help that they obviously need and save the torches and pitchforks for the ones that are taking the photos/videos.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
Your comparison is perfect, assuming you want people searching through your stuff for legally dubious things. The big issue is that this searching could be expanded to catch other, less harmful files. What if they were searching for generic pornography, leaked government documents, or "backups" of programs/media? Surely that isn't something you'd want.
The harm is in the production of the images in the first place, not in the viewing of them. The viewing supports the production. Or the production supports the viewing. I am not sure, given that I do not operate in those circles. From what I have read about it, the consensus seems to be that most kiddie porn is produced by family members abusing their younger relatives.
It can probably be argued that the people making the images would continue to make them even if they did not have an audience to share them with. Even so, there is still some social value in discouraging people from consuming the images. If people are interested in the images, that is a form of social acceptance for those who make the images.
It is bad enough that people have these demons that they struggle with. It is terrible that they abuse those who are too young to protect themselves and in most cases, do not even realize how wrong the activities are. The last thing that we need as a society is to encourage others to consume the evidence of that abuse.
...was actually much more interesting to read than the actual news, where to start...lets see now:
- We have a member here who thinks Pedophilia is a disease and think Pedophilia equals abusing children:
He/she is one of the numerous clueless people out there who have NO idea if this is actually a disease or just like Homosexuality. Arguing with such a person is completely futile, but they'll always be in numbers. It's kind of voting for stupid. (Yes, that was a H2G2 reference).
- We also have several members here who thinks Pedophiles should be arrested and behind bars just for being Pedophiles, never mind if they committed any crimes.
- We've got the usual anonymous coward zealots that thinks that if you don't have anything to hide, there is nothing to worry about.
Wanna bet who's next on tomorrows "sick" list? It can't possibly be you, can it?
- We've got the next predictable bunch who immediately attacks someone who defends the freedom of the individual, and calls them Pedophiles, because they can't POSSIBLY be normal or straight if they defend Pedophiles, now can they?
(Who exactly defended who now?) Never mind the actual facts, just as long as you get YOUR hidden agenda across.
- And then we have those who thinks that images of kids being exploited are okay, just as long as you bust the purps behind the images, and not the users.
(And who are the users now again? Sick Pedophiles, or nasty voyeuristic perverts that wants to get a kick out of something unthinkable and illegal?) And where do we draw the line? Naked kids? Kids posing sexually, and how do you define that?), family photos available to all? Imagine the number of youtube and imageshack users you'd have to arrest or at least suspect. Who do you trust today?
I'll let you in on a little secret of mine, for years I've been working undercover together with a police agent who is a close friend of mine to uncover several secret child-abuse rings in various countries - trust me when I say...this is the WORST JOB IN THE WORLD. I got into it because some family members of mine was abused, and I thought I'd use my skills for something good. Over time I learned that albeit we DID get a lot of these rings busted, we also ruined several families lives, destroyed childhoods because the law and common sense doesn't mix at all.
Everyone sees red when it comes to Child Abuse, and rightly so - but it is important...no...VITAL for progress that we somewhat keep our heads above water here and try to think rationally. It is NOT rational to point fingers at everyone who wants anonymity as a suspect of anything, it is NOT rational to call every Pedophile a CHILD ABUSER, it is NOT rational to think that if your opinion differs from the stupid masses...that you are in LEAGUE with ANYONE who happens to NOT fit your OPINION today (eg. those who want to HELP PEDOPHILES - are NOT nessesarily Pedophiles themselves, but a lot of the angry mob especially in here seem to think so).
I get upset by this, because I think of Mr. Allan Turing, who was just recently pardoned by the British for the grave injustice brought upon him just for having a sexual preference he might not even have ANY control over (we're not talking urges and constraint here, we're talking sexual PREFERENCES).
I do NOT want a society that becomes totalitarian where every deviant of nature becomes a freak to be hung, burned and ridiculed for just being different. I see YOUR mind as a private thing, just like your diary as a private thing. What you THINK of or FANTASIZE of is YOUR BUSINESS ONLY, and NO ONE ELSE.
And there is nothing that gets me fired up more than someone using child abuse in ever shape and form, fantasy or drawn, real or not - to excuse severe abuse of human rights, to pry into our daily lives with the law in hand...and with a lot of supporters that mean well...but really have NO CLUE of the REAL danger they're actually putting themselves in by supporting this ludicrous development.
Wake up and smell the coffee, people!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
The harm is in the production of the images in the first place
I agree 100%.
The viewing supports the production.
People's actions are their own. If the rapists rape, then it is their fault for raping, whether or not they're doing it for a profit or because they want others to see the videos or images. Going after people who merely look at the content is blaming them for other people's actions, and I don't condone that.
But even if that were true, I'm 100% opposed to government censorship, even if it keeps people 'safe.' So no such arguments will work on me.
The last thing that we need as a society is to encourage others to consume the evidence of that abuse.
The last thing we need is censorship.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The viewing supports the production. Or the production supports the viewing. I am not sure,
Well, let me clear it up for you, since it's a pretty simple one-way cause and effect: Production supports viewing. Viewing, in and of itself, does exactly nothing to support anything else.
Purchasing? That could support production. Page views on a site that runs ads? That could support production. Pulling from a site that keeps a record of the number of downloads, such that the uploader gets some kind of gratification watching the counter go up? That could support production.
But viewing, in itself, does not support production.
The last thing that we need as a society is to encourage others to consume the evidence of that abuse.
Encourage them? How are we as a society encouraging the viewers? I'm pretty sure it is common knowledge that we, the vast majority of society, find this behavior repugnant. I don't think they sit in their greasy basements thinking how proud their city council would be if they only knew.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
The last thing we need is censorship.
No, we need "censorship". There are just some thing which legally must be limited in any society, even a free one like ours. You cannot legally incite riots, yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater and stuff like that.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
except we don't arrest people for photos of any other type of crime scene. those rape photos couldn't be stopped. how would the DMCA even apply?
It is actually not for the children. It is a crusade against pixels. The harm to the children has already be done, often decades earlier. As to people that pay for this stuff, it seems there are almost none. Scanning like this is also quite cheap and produces a lot of "perpetrators" that may never have touched a child. It can easily be adapted to scan for other stuff, like political opinions and the like, once such a system is in place.
There is also the little problem that much of this material does not actually get crated by abusing children. Drawings and pictures taken by teens of themselves for "sexting" are an example.
If this really was about the children, they would care about who abuses children and about rescuing them. Since practically non of the child abuse happening will end up on the Internet (because it does not get photographed/videoed in the first place), this is not even try to help children. Actually helping children would be expensive, slow, and difficult, while what they are doing is cheap and ensures "success". And if you look at what they do with said teens taking pictures of themselves, that amounts to legalized child abuse. Suddenly the children find themselves tried as adults and branded for life. If this really was about protecting children, this whole witch-hunt would not be taking place and a whole different approach would be used.
No, nobody involved, except the gullible public, does care about children. It is a power-grab, a way to create an artificial, mysterious "enemy" to keep the people in fear and to justify ubiquitous surveillance. Just like the "terrorism" meme, and people still fall for that tired old lie.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The problem is that once you have a censorship system in place, it will see a huge expansion of its mission pretty soon. Whenever a "web block-list for child porn" leaks, the few people brave enough to verify it find that many, often the majority of entries actually, do not concern child porn. That is absolute no surprise to any student of history or human nature.
So, as soon as you allow some censorship, you basically will have it all a few years later. And that is exactly what is being done here: Justify it with "child porn" and "terrorism", and then, when the public has accepted and used that (after all, who could be against "protecting children" or "fighting terrorists") the mission quietly expands. Also note that it is easy to turn people into "child porn owners" and "terrorists" by faking evidence and placing it on their computers. Once such arrests have become common enough, nobody will care about those that claim they are being framed. The first case with somebody having had child porn maliciously placed on their computer is already almost a decade old. Too the person years to clear his name.
Also have you wondered why they are parading two cases in front of the press and one from Google and one from MS? That is not plausible at all. They must have found at least a few thousand people doing this. I bet these two cases were selected for maximum effect, with the perpetrators selected to be the least likely to get any sympathy. They are likely also people that do not have the means to defend themselves effectively and that are stupid and likely to admit what they did. I bet they were even selected to look untrustworthy when their pictures make it to the press. This is a very carefully orchestrated PR stunt, and it has absolutely nothing to do with children.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
And while you're at it, don't forget to drag in all people that view 'rape porn', 'snuff porn', and of course all the people that playing violent video games.
Because, naturally, if they get their jollies from viewing and playing this stuff, it's only a short distance to doing it. And before you know it, half the adult population will be taking pictures of themselves raping/killing/bashing.
I agree. And this is why I posed the question to the OP. He is against "any" censorship. I was curious if that also applies to censorship of negative things that happen to someone close to him who he presumably loves and cares for.
It is one thing to try to portray kiddie porn as "just pictures". It is another thing entirely when they are "just pictures" of your child, or your niece.
This is going to be a bit too metaphysical for this audience, but there truly is "good" and "evil" energy in the world. I do not mean in the Christian sense of heaven and hell. I mean real evil. Real, emotional and mental sickness that should have no place in a civilized society. Yet at the same time, an evil that is inevitable given the reality that the universe must be balanced, and that every action must have an equal and opposite reaction. Evil that is the polar opposite of love and compassion and caring.