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Reversible Type-C USB Connector Ready For Production
orasio writes: One of the most frustrating first-world problems ever (trying to connect an upside-down Micro-USB connector) could disappear soon. The Type-C connector for USB has been declared ready for production by the USB Promoter Group (PDF). "With the Type-C spec finalized, it now comes down to the USB-IF to actually implement the sockets, plugs, cables, adapters, and devices. The problem is that there are billions of existing USB devices and cables that will need adapters and new cables to work with new Type-C devices. It’s a lot like when Apple released the Lightning connector, but on an even grander scale. Further exacerbating the issue is the fact that China, the EU, and the GSMA have all agreed that new mobile devices use Micro-USB for charging — though it might be as simple as including a Micro-USB-to-Type-C adapter with every new smartphone."
So, all you folks who thought that it was a great idea for the EU to legislate the "One True Connection" please discuss.
You heard me! Screw all of you who think it's a good connector!
One of the most frustrating first-world problems... they keep inventing new incompatible connectors for no good reason (at least for the consumer).
This is genius.
"This new connector, whose only value is that it's reversible, doesn't work on the billions of existing devices. Why don't we include a non-reversible adapter?"
Hell, for extra convenience, just leave the adapter on the cable all the time.
.revelc woh ...
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
what are the advantages that outweigh the currently universal cheap data/power cables?
I know, one more USB connector to have an adaptor for... But this is how the mini/micro and even old USB 'A' should have been from the beginning.
There's nothing worse than having to blind mate USB, and having to flip it four bloody times before it works. (except maybe blind mating 'F' connectors, or sometimes D sub..)
Sent from my PDP-11
One of the most frustrating first-world problems... they keep inventing new incompatible connectors for no good reason (at least for the consumer).
Ahh, quit your complaining and buy the converter like a good rube... It was good enough for Apple!
Where I like the reversible nature and the current capacity of the new connector, I'm frustrated too. I only just now got enough cables to run all the devices I have in all the places I need them and now I've got another cable type to mess with once I switch out the next device. Hopefully the cables won't be as expensive as those Apple lightning, you pay though the nose because we're APPLE, cables. Thanks..
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Easy of use? The locking tabs and uni-orientation of all the micro connectors sucks compared a lightening connector which plugs in regardless of which way you grab it off the floor in the dark.... That, or it's to screw up benedict cummberbatchs ability to determine who is a drunk by how messed up the connectors of their phones are ;)
Oh, they have the internet on computers now
As an Apple customer, I am quite happy they ditched the "30-pin" connector and went with the reversible lightning connector. One less thing to fiddle with when charging my phone. Nice to see USB picking up the feature, even if it is a couple years later with implementations still not available.
That said, the cable/connector interface on the lightning cables is not nearly strong enough for the insertion/removal force required. It will be interesting to see if the USB design will work better in that regard, as the shield does provide some mechanical latching.
This is today's XKCD - and it's already out of date !
http://xkcd.com/1406/
I just hope the damned thing lasts longer than the current micro POS, which has difficulties with thoisands of connect-disconnect cycles and the occasional bump.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Is there a reason why USB cables can't be shaped like 3.5 mm speaker cables just with more 'stripes'? Then they could be plugged in any direction and they'd be rotate-able.
A dot of white nail polish will mark the proper orientation of a usb connector for approximately 800 units. Manufacturers actually used to spend the extra 2 cents per 1000 units to do this for you. But we buy our shit from china now, and all we have left in the UdotS is people think up ways to screw you just a little more. Because you demand it.
I thought that the third world bought their technology from the first world. Like USB devices...
What do you mean, not strong enough? We've managed to walk an Apple wall wart out of an outlet several times. The lightning connecter stayed connected to the iPad.
Perl Programmer for hire
.. momentarily.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
The EU threatened to make a law to unify the charging connector if the mobile phone industry didn't come to an agreement on their own. They did come to an agreement (Micro-USB), so there is no law. That agreement ended, btw, so the specter of a unified connector by law has reappeared, and with wildly differing power requirements and different ways of signalling charge modes, more standardization is indeed necessary.
If you can plug in the USB either way, then there will not be scratch marks on the phone when a drunk tried to plug it in the wrong way. Then his brother might not have tell tale scratches in the phone he borrowed. Then how can Sherlock impress Watson? Bad idea.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Yeah, and you know what also suck? The gas tank on my car which is on only on the left side. I can never remember this and half of the time I'm in the wrong way at the gas station. (Yes, I had to do the obligatory car analogy.)
Seriously, how dumb are we becoming?
So they are finally getting the connector right. After 5 different connectors and almost 20 years they are finally going to fix the USB connector problem (at least most of them). Not only that but they designed with a future awareness that will hopefully prevent the Micro-USB3 nightmare (two connectors in one) in the future.
It's Smaller than every previous USB connection.
It's reversible so you can plug it only one time.
They designed it with the ability to add additional wires in the future as the standard evolves.
The C connector supports USB 3.1 which allows up to 100watts of power transfer (enough to power smaller laptops).
IIRC it's also designed to put less strain on the connection to the circuit board so you won't get the solder flex failure so common with USB.
What they got wrong is it's almost indistinguishable from Micro without close examination. They didn't put in a color or other requirement that would have made the port obvious without close examination, even though it's smaller a LOT of people are going to be trying to plug USB micro connectors into these ports.
All in all I'd say the USB working group finally fixed a few major problems with USB and it's a good standard that will probably eventually replace all A,B,Mini and Micro ports over the next few years. The beauty is finally incorporating 100watt capability, it should be possible to have standard power adapters on laptops that use 1 or 2 USB ports for power eliminating the need to replace your power brick all the time.
It likely won't, and its failure will be expensive on the device.
As a non-apple-fanboy, I do have to say that the lightning connector used on iPhones is a smarter connector. If it's going to break due to external force, it'll break the tongue off the plug, rather than damaging the socket, subsequently a lot cheaper and easier to fix. Replacing broken microUSB ( and soon Type-C ) sockets on phones, tablets and similar devices is rarely cheap and frequently has additional complications ( such as lifting tracks, broken PCBs or just nearly impossible to find a suitable replacement connector ).
It's a lot simpler extracting a broken off tongue from a lightning socket and getting a new cable.
Please keep in mind an important aspect of this new cable, it supports 100 watts power transfer. That means most devices, including laptops, can be charged through this one connector. I see that as the best reason to switch, fast charging and universal connector for all my devices. The article glosses over that important detail. It also enables 10 Gbs data transfer.
Look at your fuel gauge in the car. There is a little arrow on it that tells you which side your gas tank is on.
Proof that cables exist in 4-dimensional space:
http://www.smbc-comics.com/ind...
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Seriously, how dumb are we becoming?
We aren't dumb at all, as evidenced by multiple directionless plugs taking over where annoying plugs held sway before.
That's a lot of pointless time saved in aggregate.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The USB 3.0 Micro B connector is horrendous design:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...
Seriously, worst connector ever. Did they really think that abomination would be used on cellphones?
No good reason? Really?
Look on the bright side - with Type-D they'll figure out how to go reversible and genderless and then we'll be done for good.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Work colleague got a new Ford Ranger, the arrow points to the wrong side :-P
Don't they call that Bluetooth?
"Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines."
Qi for charging. BT or WiFi for data xfer
Type-C is reversible and genderless. It also is rated to deliver up to 30W. To deliver more than that they would need to make the connector bigger, which phone users wouldn't like.
and they couldn't make it smaller deeper for backward compatibility?
Work colleague got a new Ford Ranger, the arrow points to the wrong side :-P
That's not the wrong side, it's just that on his Ranger, the arrow points to which side of the pump you're supposed to be on.
Wow. Just wow. We've come full circle, folks.
In view of recent revelations that USB Security is fundamentally broken, is the new spec just for a connector or does it include any interface implementation of better security? http://www.wired.com/2014/07/u...
The cable connection at the lightning connector has failed on me several times, specifically because the connector stays connected to the device. The removal force exceeds the strength of the cable. Yes, I understand you shouldn't pull from the cable, but the connector body is sometimes too small to get a good hold on.
No more USB superposition?http://i.imgur.com/yyEwOHK.png
And that's on the gas logo.. Which is at the "full" position. My eyeballs are looking at the "empty" position.. The arrow is missing.
Full circle?
As in circle jerk? Or am I dating myself?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Say what you will about Apple and their tendancy to buck the greater tech trends in the industry, but when Apple does buck the trend, their solution is technically superior and more user friendly than the incumbent alternative. The Lightning connector is but the latest example. Previous examples include Thunderbolt over USB 3, Firewire over USB 2, ADB over every pre-USB keyboard and mouse connection.
At some point in your life you're going to have to go all Zen about it and not care so much.
Only then can you throw those old SCSI cables out.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
...security and protection in having the only phone in a house of seven that uses my phone's proprietary data and charger cable. everybody else loses or has their cables 'borrowed'.. but not me.. at least not until i need a new phone.
Look on the bright side - with Type-D they'll figure out how to go reversible and genderless and then we'll be done for good.
Along those lines: the "gendering" (sort of) of USB was deliberate. USB is a master/slave protocol with a host that supplies power and a device that (optionally) consumes it. The cables were designed to prevent people from connecting two hosts together and shorting out their power supplies. The newer USB On-The-Go (OTG) standard allows two hosts to connect using special connectors (micro-AB) to control power switching and a connection protocol for deciding which end is the master, but it's pretty complicated and requires analog voltage measurement. Fun to have on a smart phone, but massive overkill for most devices.
Visit the
The fuel port belongs on the driver's side. Cars with it on the other side are wrong.
(you are probably not old enough to remember cars with the cap under the license plate, I am barely old enough to remember... much less drive one)
No real device actually implement OTG - it's such a complex protocol with HNP and role-switching that very few people bothered. Especially since the real goal for the manufacturer really just wanted USB host support, USB client support, and not worry about HNP or other nonsense.
USB Forum did listen though, as USB 3.0 abandoned the OTG spec. Instead, they have "Dual Role Device" or DRD. Basically it can be a host or client depending on the voltage applied to a pin. No complex HNP or other protocol - the user basically just plugs in an adapter to bring it back to the normal USB A female plug.
OTG was conceived as a way for two people to connect their phones or other devices together and share data - HNP and role-switching as necessary in order to properly handle the transfer. It was all brilliant and everything, but so overly complex with high software requirements. Bluetooth also came around which basically handled all the use cases that USB OTG was envisioning, so in the end, the only real use was to provide USB host mode.
What kind of idiot would put pins facing the world / not protected? If you accidentally leave it out while it rains / spill some liquid, you're going to increase the corrosion on the connector -- then there's a good chance you're going to spread the corrosion inside the port! Think about every other cable in existence (here's a headstart: http://xkcd.com/1406/ ) Every one of them has Ground on the sheath to protect the sensitive data pins. Even Headphone jacks have ground closest to the outside just in case some liquid gets in the socket.
Can you think of any other stupid cable design that has the important data connectors facing the elements?!?
Also, How do they break the tab off the inside of the plug when there's a stiff metal frame around the side making sure the cable head itself doesn't move? I think there's more to the story than your friends are telling you - blaming the connector first before themselves. It's like breaking off a coax wall socket - the amount of force required would have destroyed ANY device because it ripped the socket off the mainboard and probably warped the chassis!
you left off the best one, the magsafe plug that gets sucked into the port when you just dangle the power cable near it
also, you'll catch flag for bringing up Thunderbolt
yes, evidently you have longer arms than a normal person and are able to circle-jerk yourself, hence your desire to date yourself. You have to, because you won't put out without getting a decent meal first.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Funny, all my micro usb cables as small marking on one side indicating the "up" side of connector... Newer had any other problem then that damn connector is so damn small. Requires some accuracy to put it in dark to correct spot of phone...
At some point in your life you're going to have to go all Zen about it and not care so much.
Only then can you throw those old SCSI cables out.
Hah, I scrapped 4 cubic yards of collected computer detritus, including at least a dozen different SCSI cables (with some ultraSCSIs) today. Been needing to do that for years. I did shed a bit of a tear over the Amiga stuff, though.
Yes, I donated to anyone and everyone all that I could before I scrapped. But 4 working PCs couldn't even be given away to an orphanage!
As if Mini A, Mini B, Mini C, Micro A Micro B, Micro C, Standard A, Standard B along with all those proprietary plugs weren't enough.
I was wondering about the lightning connector. There seems to be a bunch of moving parts inside the socket. There are the "thiniges" that make the electrical contact, and there are two tiny things on the sides that hold the plug in place (the lightning plug seems to have indents on the edge to hold it in)
If the current plugs had an obvious up/down, it would go a long way to knowing which way they go. For a phone, up would be the front. For a PC, up would be marked on the plug by a face and side feeling/looking different. Those go up, depending on whether it's a horizontal or vertical socket. Things are market but it's not very visible and not tactile so you know what to feel for. This would fix the problem well enough without changing the mechanical/electrical specification.
Micro-usb claims 10k insertions, as does the new standard. Unfortunately that 10k seems to be assuming perfect alignment. Probably a robot test it. In the real world micro-usb seems quite fragile. I've lost cables, phone, chargers etc. Seems like things average around a year of daily use. Am I just unlucky? Never had problems with usb or mini-usb.
If I can power my laptop and get a network connection (powerline ethernet) over the same cable, that would be really sweet.
A murphy-compliant plug+socket for USB at last.
If there's a 50:50 chance of something going wrong, 9 times out of 10 it will.
If i look at the pictures correctly, the male portion of this interface is in the device, while the cable is essentially 'female' inside? Who's bright idea was this? The male side is much more likely to break.
Don't forget they were the first to really embrace USB.
For the sake of other lazy people, can someone respond to me and answer the following.
What is becoming reversible, just the USB Micro style size or the larger sizes too?
Are we just skipping everything and moving to the one plug at both ends for all USB connections possibly?
If we do move to said plug, what aobut strength? I've seen some mock up pics of the proposed plug, it looks great for a phone, it doesn't look great for a printer / back of a PC - looks quite delicate.
Type-C is [...] genderless.
No it's not.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
with Type-D they'll figure out how to go reversible and genderless
The two are mutually exclusive, aren't they?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
I've read about the supposed reliability problems with micro-usb before, but I've always wondered how is it that you guys are treating your cables.
I've lost count of how many devices I have which have micro-usb jacks, not to mention how many cables I have lying around.
In years of service, I've ruined 1 (one!) cable, and that was because it was in my car, so it was subject to sloppy inserts, bumps, vibrations and whatnot. Still it lasted for a good couple of years before it had to be replaced (it was falling out of the socket on its own).
The beauty of micro-usb is that it's designed so that the point of failure is in the cable rather than the expensive-to-replace port.
This means that the "teeth" which hold the connector in place are in the cable, and they can vary a lot in quality. Almost all cables are of decent quality, but the really good ones are harder to find since the manufacturers seem to all be white-label.
Not to defend the design too much. Whoever decided not to make it symmetrical from the beginning deserves a sharp kick in the nuts.
It's a lot simpler extracting a broken off tongue from a lightning socket and getting a new cable.
Yes, it's both easier and cheaper. Unfortunately Apple pockets the difference.
RTS: Apparently not, although it might be hard to make it obvious which way they can be oriented.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Really, I think the problem with the micro connector is crappy construction rather than a design flaw. The one on my phone has endured years of use (several thousand insertions) and still fits firmly enough to be able to suspend the phone by the USB cable. If made well, it can be durable.
Wrong; if all cars have the cap on the same side it leads to inefficiency at pumps when big vehicles / those too bad at driving to park sufficiently close to the pumps cause queues by having to wait to park on the same side of the pump. Yes, I know that pretty much every pump has a long enough hose that it doesn't matter which side you park on at least with a smallish car, but it still seems beyond some people. Optimally 50% of cars will have the cap on the left, 50% on the right.
FW and TB are faster than the best known alternatives, but I wouldn't necessarily call them superior overall. The FW connector is pretty damn awful, for example, and it's much easier to damage a FW device than a USB device, due to the electrical design.
Also, I'm not too crazy about the new Mac Pro. The 12 core model literally overheats and throttles at full load.
But in general, sure, Apple does employ a lot of common sense.
And don't forget cables with chips so you can only reliably use their overpriced cables and release updates to block other cables
The idea is to have an unified Type-C connector every where.
Long term plan is to have on both side, device side (harddisk, tablet, phone) and host side (laptop, power plug, etc.)
(Juste like 6 wired FireWire 400 had the same connector everywhere)
Althought they probably will begin used with A to C cables.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
frequently has additional complications ( such as lifting tracks, broken PCBs or just nearly impossible to find a suitable replacement connector ).
Depends entirely on the connector. There are plenty out there with through hole anchors in the PC and many devices use them. If you manage to do something to damage the board in the cases there's likely not much left of your phone.
The lightning connector has one thing going for it: a single manufacture and a single design. MicroUSB on the other hand comes in all shapes sizes and connections on the PCB end. Heck some of them are physically bolted to the device case ensuring no stress on the PCB at all.
The problem with MicroUSB is when you have a myriad of designs and vendors you end up with amongst other things cheap and nasty connectors. Combined with a desire to maximise profits why would (insert phone vendor here) care if your phone breaks when it saves them $0.10 and causes you to either buy another or send it in for an expensive repair?
The standards body can't fix this because if they limit the connector designs then engineers around the world will cry foul.
Times I've had a problem with a USB connector or socket: ...once? I'm actually not sure I ever have.
Times I've had a problem with not having the right connector because the standard gets dicked around with: holy shit that number is big.
The problem is that there are billions of existing USB devices and cables that will need adapters and new cables to work with new Type-C devices. It’s a lot like when Apple released the Lightning connector, but on an even grander scale.
What problem? My existing micro-usb devices won't need adapters, new devices with Type-C connectors will come with Type-C to Type-A cables, and when desktops/laptops start to come with Type-C connectors I'll just buy some new cables.
It's the same situation when micro-usb replaced mini-usb, I don't remember there being a problem on a "grand scale" then either.
Unfortunately, that's not true as every USB adapter has a design where the contacts are facing inwards towards an isolated post which can & does snap off. On USB type-B connectors the post is thick enough so that I've never seen anyone do it but on Type-A's and much more commonly all the newer smaller connectors it's the most common failure mode after poor strain relief that often rips the connector off the PCB.
Apple's design of lightning without this fragile post and more rigorous specification that the female ports must be screwed (& not just soldered) to the PCB makes it a clearly superior solution.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Pretty much every data connector has its pins exposed to the air and subsequently ingress of dust and liquid when not mated. Having a big metal enclosures/ground planes/shields around the connector is about electrical noise control and sometimes to a limited degree about preventing mechanical damage.
The old apple connector was awful, prone to breakages and pin-lifting due to "real humans" using the devices, it also was a significant pain to replace in the iPod Touch due to its wide body and numerous pins ( at least the phones had a replacable flex lead containing the dock connector ), it was also exceptionally good at picking up crap (lint, paper, body gunk, drinks ... everything that you'd think people wouldn't in their right mind have near it ). I like that it's been changed around to the lightning connector, yes the pins are exposed on it, but it would seem that for a portable device that's floating around in a lot of random environments, the lightning cable is the one that gets the least exposure ( compared to the device ) as it just sits at home waiting till the user returns to charge up their device again. The most common problem we've been encountering is just the socket on the phones filling up with lint over time causing the connection to fail due to the inability to fully insert the plug - thankfully easy to fix of course.
The MicroUSB connector on phones usually are mashed due to people deciding "No, it really MUST fit this way". The SONY Xperia with the Micro-A was a wonderful disaster in that respect ( yes, I know the key is offset to prevent incorrect insertion, but it's useless against determined humans ), or due to looser tolerances the tongue gets partially sheared away when the phone is dropped on the connector while plugged in.
Who knows how people manage to break things in strange ways, but they do, "we" might not, but "they" certainly do.
Wouldn't you have been better off if they had gone to Micro USB though? It's cheap, ubiquitous, supports full 1080p video without nasty compression and does everything else that the Lightning connector does. Apple could even have added some extra pins for their own functions, like Samsung and HTC have done, while still retaining full compatibility.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
That may be how OTG was conceived but I never heard of anyone using it that way.
People (including me) use it for USB keyboard, mice, hard disks, flash drives on phones or tablets which also act as removable media to a PC.
blog.sam.liddicott.com
> If it's going to break due to external force, it'll break the tongue off the plug
This is true. I don't know what my partner does, but she breaks a charger every few months.
The tongue is definitely a weak point.
What you have to consider is that Apple devices are almost luxury items, which mean that they can get away using components that are too expensive for low-end devices.
USB is designed to be cheap and good enough, otherwise it couldn't be "universal".
I think they can get away with it using better materials (thicker gold plating maybe) and electrical protection built in the cable electronics (lightning cables are active).
Remeber that apple doesn't have the same cost constraints as other manufacturers due to their ludicrous sale prices.
Wrong; if all cars have the cap on the same side it leads to inefficiency at pumps when big vehicles / those too bad at driving to park sufficiently close to the pumps cause queues by having to wait to park on the same side of the pump. Yes, I know that pretty much every pump has a long enough hose that it doesn't matter which side you park on at least with a smallish car, but it still seems beyond some people. Optimally 50% of cars will have the cap on the left, 50% on the right.
It is not about the pump, as the hose is long enough to allow filling cars on both sides of the isle, but about the driver being able to check what is being done to his car on gas stations with full service.
Obligatory XKCD
The magsafe plug was probably deliberately left off that list, because the first iteration was a safety risk, and came with a special instruction sheet to plug / unplug it so that it doesn't burn down your house.
You still have to rotate it to one of those two angles. What about the other 358 degrees?
Actually Apple makes a large profit on each device sold...so yes there are more relaxed cost constraints but it's not like they're eeking by and just barely making money on these.
The actual savings comes from Apples immense and immensely simplified manufacturing. Not only do they sell eleventeen billion of ONE product SKU (ok, some colors or extra flash but that's NBD). So Apple doesn't order 20% of battery A, 40% of battery B, 10% of C, etc....they order eleventeen billion of ONE battery. At that point they get it custom made to exactly what they want and for a substantial discount...they're well known for buying the entire factory output of a certain product for a given time. That's a big reason why the original iPod was the only device so small...they effectively (and realistically) bought the entire production of 1.8" hard drives.
Yes, they do use good materials and have extremely tight tolerances. Efficiency of scale. It's funny though, some people have chronic problems with connectors and cables - complaining about lightning, 30-pin, mini/micro-USB, etc. I never see to break my cables or connectors. Like...ever. I seriously have no idea what 'these people' are doing. I don't baby my electronics either!
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
How long will it be before the appliance manufacturers and the electricians realize that if they change the plugs on appliances, they can make a bajillion dollars rewiring homes and offices?
Yah, but that's basic mechanical pins to hold the connector. Pretty much every small connector has them in some form or another. Even if they fail, it just means the plug can fall out...but it will still work.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
At some point in your life you're going to have to go all Zen about it and not care so much.
Personally, I don't care what cable it is. All I really care about is being able to plug in what I need to, when and where I need to.... Well, that and how much all the adapters and cables my devices use cost me.
Well, I suppose that's not exactly true, I do care about my wife not complaining about "all the unsightly wires" I have to keep around so I can get the pictures off the cameras, charge any of the phones we have, sync the various "i Devices" of multiple types and ages and all the various tablets laying about.... It's taking over the house I tell you, and it's a source of marital discord because of course it's MY mess and my fault when I cannot find the right connector to accomplish what ever technical task she needs NOW but doesn't know how to do herself....
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
http://d3dsacqprgcsqh.cloudfront.net/photo/6756457_700b.jpg
microUSB does NOT SUPPORT TV OUT.
Sorry, but do not confuse MHL, SlimPort or other "let's hack a micro USB compatible connector" standard with micro USB. MHL and SlimPort (two INCOMPATIBLE standards for video over something-that-appears-to-be-microUSB) are different ways of transmitting the video.
MHL is traditionally converted to HDMI (limited to 1080i60 or 1080p30, MHL 2.0 is required for 60fps support at 1080p) and the MHL-HDMI link is relatively strong. However, it is NOT a part of the HDMI spec - MHL is managed separately and independently from HDMI.
SlimPort is another standard - it's a bit more compelling because it allows for trivial conversion to DisplayPort via an adapter. But it's DisplayPort, and you need a converter (most likely active) to convert it to HDMI.
But you cannot connect a MHL device via a SlimPort cable and expect it to work.
And let's not forget we want a spec to last 10 years. In 10 years we've seen numerous changes to the USB port so you do need a small gaggle of adapters to be able to connect anything to anything. (There's a few popular ones, like micro A and A, but there's also mini-A for the few devices that had them on the host side. On the device side you have B, mini B, micro B. Assuming you ignore USB 3.0, because the 3.0 device side connectors only plug into 3.0 devices). For Apple, you have two cables - a 30 pin, or lightning.
And as someone who has had devices with MHL and moved to ones with SlimPort, it's frustrating because stuff doesn't work anymore. Even Apple at least made a converter to keep old stuff working.
Plus, the microUSB port is awful and unidirectional with it enforced by a flimsy piece of plastic. It won't be more than a day before we hear reports of users who basically broke the thing on their iPhones and iPads.
OTOH, at least there would be some standardization of connectivity - you won't see Android makers putting the USB port anywhere other at the bottom center oriented one way (which happens to be the way Apple chose), so at least Android docking stations would be more than clumsy things that consist of a device holder and a 3.5mm plug to go into your audio jack and a micro USB cable to charge (optional).
We finally got to the point where we have an effective standard and I no longer had to use all the various adapters to be able to plug various devices in. Now Type-C USB comes along to ruin that? Reversibility is a minor advance at best, certainly not enough to be worth giving up having to go back to cable adapters and such.
I wonder how much they save by making the battery inaccessible. In terms of design it means they get to cram it in around everything else. I wonder if it means they also save on connectors and mountings.
If the surrounding connector is designed with proper tolerance it is nearly impossible to break the center post even on the micro connectors. Alas, crappy construction means excessively loose tolerance and so the center post gets stressed.
So people say, and yet we have a box full of telephones and other USB devices at work with that supposedly well designed invulnerable center post snapped off or the contacts delaminated off it & bent into uselessness. Yeah, of course, it must be because we must be using shoddy devices insufficient to deal with our superhuman strength. Damn that yellow Sun...
Or, just maybe, designing that fragile central post into the standard and allowing cheap & shoddy connectors is the problem. Not a problem with the (better designed IMO) Thunderbolt connectors.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
It likely won't, and its failure will be expensive on the device.
As a non-apple-fanboy, I do have to say that the lightning connector used on iPhones is a smarter connector. If it's going to break due to external force, it'll break the tongue off the plug, rather than damaging the socket, subsequently a lot cheaper and easier to fix. Replacing broken microUSB ( and soon Type-C ) sockets on phones, tablets and similar devices is rarely cheap and frequently has additional complications ( such as lifting tracks, broken PCBs or just nearly impossible to find a suitable replacement connector ).
It's a lot simpler extracting a broken off tongue from a lightning socket and getting a new cable.
Just because you have common sense, does not mean that others have it too. Have you thought that they want to start a new cottage industry, whose aim is to repair broken plugs? Why allow you to buy a $3.00 cable when you can pay $50.00 to replace the plug jack.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
The design is fine, the construction is shoddy. If Apple donated all the patents to the public domain and let anyone/everyone make and use Lightning connectors they would be just as bad or worse due to cheap knock-offs.
I have seen really well made mini and micro USB connectors and I have seen really crappy ones.
The good ones have a tight tolerance and the center post ever so slightly recessed from the plane of the ground/shield opening. The plug is slightly beveled inwward towards the center tab. By the time the plug contacts the center post, it is held straight by the shield. The slightly trapezoidal shape of the connector assures that you can't even touch the center post if you try to plug it in upside down.
The crappy ones have the center post flush with or even protruding slightly from the over-large opening of the socket such that upside down insertion is blocked by the center post. That is why they break even with normal use by mere mortals.
Don't worry. I'm sure the he is wearing his flag jacket.
And its logical conclusion.
I have one right here on my desk. It connects a cheapo (but effective) battery charger to a USB power supply. The charger has an A socket, and it connects to a standard charger via an AA cable.
I keep meaning to superglue it into the charger to prevent someone connecting two of my computers together and something horrible happening.
Yeah, yeah, heard it before. If anyone calls into question the USB committee's weak designs, say it's because they must be using shoddy connectors, whereas your "well made" connectors don't have a problem. USB design isn't "fine" as you put it, it's demonstratably poorer than thunderbolt. Repeating the USB mantra "We put the parts that wear out in the connector so you don't damage the socket" doesn't make it true. The dozens of cellphones & other now useless devices that come from Blackberry, Samsung HTC, etc that all say that their USB sockets are well made yet snap the center post or delaminate the contacts or separate from the PCB tell me that that position is a load of crap.
Thunderbolt doesn't use a hollow male connector made of plastic with inward facing contacts and a thin wrapping strip of metal like USB. The male Thunderbolt connector is a solid injection moulded slab with the contacts on the outside.
Thunderbolt female connectors don't have a fragile central plastic post that often breaks but Apple did render obligatory the strain relief that the USB committee left off. If the female socket doesn't have strain relief, it's not Thunderbolt.
Thunderbolt's solid connector is thus mechanically much more robust, but not to the point where the male connector is stronger than the female socket.
Apple's design is clearly superior but through sour grapes many, like you, refuse to see.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Where do you see sour grapes? I am basing this on my own experiences with actual devices. It's my analysis, not the committee's.
I see sour grapes because I clearly stated that it is the design of USB on my post of 2014-08-13 20:39 where I said:
we have a box full of telephones and other USB devices at work with that supposedly well designed invulnerable center post snapped off or the contacts delaminated off it & bent into uselessness. Yeah, of course, it must be because we must be using shoddy devices insufficient to deal with our superhuman strength. Damn that yellow Sun...
Or, just maybe, designing that fragile central post into the standard and allowing cheap & shoddy connectors is the problem. Not a problem with the (better designed IMO) Thunderbolt connectors.
Yet in your reply of 2014-08-13 20:39 you attempt to imply that my experience & everyone else who has bricked USB devices is because that I'm using shoddy implementations :
The design is fine, the construction is shoddy.
In my reply of 2014-08-14 3:21 I insist that it isn't just me or your putative shoddy construction. I've seen the center post snapped off/contacts delaminated/connecter ripped off the PCB on just about every make & model of phone that our company uses. No devices (other than Type B in my experience) are immune to USB's weaknesses. It's not rare to see Type-As are snapped off of PCs when they are turned in for renewal & USB charting stations in airports seem to be dying out in Europe because ports are broken so often.
Hey, maybe Apples patents are what is preventing the USB committee from using a better design. I don't know. That shouldn't stop you from acknowledging that Thunderbolt has a superior design & implementation when:
- Thunderbolt's female port doesn't have that fragile center post which snaps off
- Thunderbolt's female port contacts cannot delaminate from the central post & bend back.
- Thunderbolt's female ports cannot be merely soldered to the PCB, there HAS to be strain relief or it isn't Thunderbolt.
- Thunderbolt is more expensive than USB. (but the previous 3 points all brick devices so it's stupid to skimp here)
- Thunderbolt's uselessly reversible (But now that USB is going to a reversible connector too I suppose the die hard USB cheerleaders are going to drop this one).
- It's Apple's design.
- Apple won't let you use it.
When the only reasons are the last two, the problem is jealousy: Thus sour grapes.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
I see sour grapes because I clearly stated that it is the design of USB on my post of 2014-08-13 20:39 where I said:
I disagree with you, therefor it must be sour grapes? Do you have a problem scraping your ears when you enter the room?
Perhaps you should see logic instead. I have seen a connector built to the actual spec that shows none of the flaws you call out. Therefore, it is possible to build a USB connector to spec that isn't fragile and problematic. The corollary is that if your connectors aren't performing as well as the well constructed connector, it would be shoddy construction rather than a design problem.
I have no doubt that you have a closet full of devices with shoddy broken connectors made by the lowest bidder and value engineered to death.
I wouldn't mind at all if the USB committee clamped down and threatened to use the trademarks as a bludgeon to kill off the worst offenders.
The primary strength of the Apple connector is that they control who is allowed to make one.
I's either sour grapes, willful ignorance or intellectual dishonesty. Your choice, but sour grapes is the least pejorative IMO.
You've made the ludicrous clam that because you can hang your phone upside down from its cable USB is well designed.
Then you falsely claim that only shoddy connectors break the center post, delaminate or rip the female sockets off the PCB & gloss over the fact that these happen to all USB sockets, no matter what their claimed quality is. Come on, lets hear who exactly manufactured in what device one can find your supposedly flawless USB connectors. Given how many different phone & device manufacturers are in the dead USB box, I'm confident that I'll have a few. What then, hmmm? I suspect an attempt to move the goalposts claiming that "oh, but some other device has better connectors" like many other USB zealots I've encountered.
I do not have a box of low end dead USB devices. indeed most of them are/were high end when they were purchased.
You wouldn't mind if the USB committee would clamp down on the "shoddy" manufacturers? WAKE UP! It's NOT REPEAT, NOT spelled N O T just the low end. These problems happen to ALL USB devices! Not frequently, no, but it shouldn't be happening at all!
Up to now you have avoided acknowledging at all that Thunderbolt is a superior connector. A thought strikes me: Do you work on ignition switches for General Motors?
Yes, part of the reason that Thunderbolt is a better connector is because Apple's specifications are more rigorous. How good of you to take over 30 hours to at last agree with the the closing sentence of my first post in this thread. Now explain how that fragile center post does NOT make USB a worse specification/connector than Thunderbolt.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
The devices may be high end, but they seem to have bought USB connectors from the lowest vendor in China.
OTOH, I have had exactly 1 USB connector break EVER and it was clearly a low end POS.
You need a new dictionary. I said that Thunderbolt's construction is more rigorously controlled.
Right, Mr GM ignition switch controller/USB zealot. Your sole experience of a connector that snapped because it was low end trumps my description of dozens of devices with three different but related USB failure modes. You welsh out on giving an example of a correctly engineered device because, even though you can't admit it, you know deep down that there is a problem with the weak center post in every USB design.
Post by post, it's becoming clear that all three: sour grapes, willful ignorance & intellectual dishonesty apply to your defence of USB.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
I didn't see your request for info since it was surrounded by a bunch of screechy blather. *PLONK*
Therein lies the the problem. You are a zealot, unable to move from your unverified preconception of USB as well designed, are unable to give a single concrete example of a USB connector which doesn't snap and see any criticism of USB or of your unsupported defense of same as "noise".
Blather indeed, how dare anyone actually doubt the holy church of USB as anything less than perfect. Yet another case of "none are so blind as those who refuse to see"...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue