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Oregon Sues Oracle For "Abysmal" Healthcare Website
SpzToid (869795) writes The state of Oregon sued Oracle America Inc. and six of its top executives Friday, accusing the software giant of fraud for failing to deliver a working website for the Affordable Care Act program. The 126-page lawsuit claims Oracle has committed fraud, lies, and "a pattern of activity that has cost the State and Cover Oregon hundreds of millions of dollars". "Not only were Oracle's claims lies, Oracle's work was abysmal", the lawsuit said. Oregon paid Oracle about $240.3 million for a system that never worked, the suit said. "Today's lawsuit clearly explains how egregiously Oracle has disserved Oregonians and our state agencies", said Oregon Atty. Gen. Ellen Rosenblum in a written statement. "Over the course of our investigation, it became abundantly clear that Oracle repeatedly lied and defrauded the state. Through this legal action, we intend to make our state whole and make sure taxpayers aren't left holding the bag."
Oregon's suit alleges that Oracle, the largest tech contractor working on the website, falsely convinced officials to buy "hundreds of millions of dollars of Oracle products and services that failed to perform as promised." It is seeking $200 million in damages. Oracle issued a statement saying the suit "is a desperate attempt to deflect blame from Cover Oregon and the governor for their failures to manage a complex IT project. The complaint is a fictional account of the Oregon Healthcare Project."
Oregon's suit alleges that Oracle, the largest tech contractor working on the website, falsely convinced officials to buy "hundreds of millions of dollars of Oracle products and services that failed to perform as promised." It is seeking $200 million in damages. Oracle issued a statement saying the suit "is a desperate attempt to deflect blame from Cover Oregon and the governor for their failures to manage a complex IT project. The complaint is a fictional account of the Oregon Healthcare Project."
I don't know if Oregon's suit has merit or not, but that sure sounds like my employer's experience with Oracle.
"What procedure was used to select Oracle on the market of solution vendors?"
"Well, their name kind of starts like our name, so we thought they'd be the best for us. We've also heard there's a lot of trees in their software. We like trees."
Ezekiel 23:20
I have no doubt at all that Oracle committed fraud and lied a lot. I have no doubt Oregon's project management failed to give adequate oversight to the project, failed to adequately specify the project, and repeatedly changed what little specification they provided.
Neither matters. I have no doubt this lawsuit will ultimately fail, because the Oregon attorney general doesn't have the technical ability to prove the fraud and lies. The state has already proven they don't understand what they're doing. We're about to get a second demonstration.
Larry Ellison just bought Oregon.
I'm pretty sure for 240 million I'd be able to do it from my bedroom.
"is a desperate attempt to deflect blame from Cover Oregon and the governor for their failures to manage a complex IT project." It shouldn't be their job, that's what they paid you for.
For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
I'm starting to think that State, Provincial, Reigonal, Local and Federal governments should Purchase Technologies from companies, and then hire their own Salaried Engineers to actually handle the operations. Stop creating these service contracts and don't let this nonsense go on.
I have no love for Oracle, but the blame cannot be placed at their feet. As has been reported in local Oregon and nationwide news, Oracle insisted Oregon hire a project manager and systems integrator, either because the contract did not permit Oracle to fulfill those roles or Oracle was not capable of performing those roles. Oregon refused those requests, despite many warnings from Oracle and Cover Oregon's own director that without such services the site would not be ready to go live. Instead, Oregon placed a gag order on everyone involved in the project to hide the problems from the public. This is very much a problem caused by Oregon, not by any willful fraud by Oracle. This is also SOP for Oregon Government, with just about any project they undertake. (Full disclosure, I am one of many pissed off Oregonians.)
Here's a success story about Kentucky's Kynect Exchange.
They need not have worried. Over the past year, Kentucky’s health care website has proved to be a huge success. More than a half-million Kentucky residents have signed up for the Bluegrass State’s version of Obamacare. A majority of Kentuckians approve of it. That this has happened in a deeply red state is unexpected but hardly an accident.
This mishmash of overlapping but non-integrating state, federal, and private health care systems, each party taking their cut and adding another layer of inefficiency, is "decent health care"?
Good answer: "... the Oregon attorney general doesn't have the technical ability to prove the fraud and lies. The state has already proven they don't understand what they're doing."
Also, Oracle has been through this perhaps thousands of times. Apparently the major profit center for companies like Oracle is being late and more expensive than predicted. For example, see this quote from the book, Heuristics and Biases: The Psychology of Intuitive Judgment:
"... a recent General Accounting Office report on U.S. military equipment procurement concluded that only 1% of major military purchases involving high technology were delivered on time and on budget."
That book says the problem is due to a sociological mistake. My understanding is that it is entirely intended, a way of making money from the largely hidden military purchases of the U.S. government. For the U.S. government, killing people is an enormous, extremely profitable business.
My onetime employer had Oracle come in and take over managing their entire employee database system.
At one point a manager asked what it would take to have the letter that the system created to be sent out accepting a new employee changed to add a yellow hilight over a couple of important lines in the Word document.
They told him it would take six hours of programmer time at $200/hour.
He bought a 69 cent hilighter instead.
"from Cover Oregon and the governor for their failures to manage a complex IT project."
Err, excuse me - if Oracle are the contractor its up to THEM to manage the fecking project. Why the hell should the governor be hands on with this? Do they think he's also down at every roadworks checking the spades?
Usually when you hire a big company like Oracle you give them the requirements, pay them money and they're supposed to deliver the goods, so Oracle whining that they apparently weren't given good enough management is pathetic.
I wonder what are the odds they used some cheap indian labour who can just about switch on a computer much less deliver a working program. Sorry if some people find that racist, but indian coders in my experience are universally bloody useless.
How is building a website with a database back end a complex project? How does 240 million get spent and they couldn't afford a project manager? I know there are ridiculous integration requirement but this isn't exactly rocket surgery.
I dare Oracle to audit just exactly who worked on this project - how many H1-B's at Oracle and foreign outsourcing.insourcing was done (probably, to India). I will bet hard $$$ that a majority of the work for Oregon was done this way. What I have seen over and over again is more and more H1-B garbage code put into BASIC infrastructure projects. Oracle and other companies walk away with profit, and we're left holding a bag of garbage.
I'm not a PhD level database guru, but my career has been almost entirely working with databases over the last 20 years. I can say that the underlying technology of the Oracle RDBMS itself is light years beyond other systems. I'm not an advocate of anything Oracle has done in other arenas over the last 10-15 years, but I experience an existential crisis every day in my job where I love working within an Oracle database, but hate pretty much everything about the company that owns it.
A big part of the blame should go to Oregon for trying to start with a big, complex site. Of all the states that implement Obamacare Insurance Exchanges, Oregon's is widely considered the worst, after spending $240M. Kentucky's is widely considered the best. It was ready on day one, and has run without major problems since. Kentucky spent about $8M, or 3% of what Oregon spent. Software development works best with a small, lean team of good developers. Before embarking on this project, the Oregon governor should have read The Mythical Man Month.
Place the realm blame where it belongs and leave Oracle alone.
Who? Lotus Notes? Bill Gates? Nixon?
This is classic application of Hanlon's Razor: Never ascribe to malice that which can be best explained by incompetence.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Nope. A website that has to hook into a bunch of poorly maintained, poorly documented databases. That's the hard part.
That they screwed up the web site portion of it is typical Oracle however. Unfortunately, like in any major disaster, there are going to be a number of interlocking pieces, numerous bad decisions and enough legal boilerplate to cover the world ten feet deep.
The only people standing at the end will be the lawyers.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I understand the challenges but I maintain that it's not 240 million bucks worth of difficult.
I'm an Oregonian, and there has been very little information about what actually happened other than the corporate/govenment spin weasels point fingers and whining about the other guy.
To be honest, our state can certainly screw up just like all the rest and on various levels. Just google Dynamite Whale for one example.
On the other hand, my experiences with Oracle and what I've heard from other people that had to deal with them, are far less than stellar.
Right now I'm betting some politician made some stupid mistakes that Oracle didn't bother to even attempt to correct because all they could see was $$. Which of course was compounded by Oracle then going on in a slipshod milk the government cash cow way. The end result being this F-N mess.
How to recover from this? Honestly, I don't really know, especially because we haven't been told what the exact problems are with the system. Sure, we've been told lots of the symptoms, but not the actual problems. (The difference between someone saying my car makes this "kchunk-wnnnng noise", vs "my car's timing belt is slipping".)
One suggestion that might be necessary is to throw out the old code, and go talk to someone with a good working version and license that one for a reasonable fee then rebrand and localize it. (Maybe Kentucky's version.) And no, a reasonable fee isn't what they paid for it if it's something they had developed. Maybe there are other states with lousy versions, and they could all license a good working version. It would sure as hell simplify things going forward for all of them.
Apparently the major profit center for companies like Oracle is being late and more expensive than predicted.
This 100 times. I am amazed again and again that big government projects are almost guaranteed to be over budget and late, and I don't mean 10% in either case. After having this 5000 times, which idiots write the contracts that still don't contain massive penalties for those cases? Grab them by the balls when they promise you the heavens and tell them to deliver or shut up.
Nothing short of corruption can explain this, because I refuse to believe that someone can be this stupid and at the same time still remember how breathing works.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
What you get with Big Companies is lots of Lawyers. There is more money to be made doing exactly what the contract says then doing the job correct. If you do exactly what you are asked to do in the worst way possible you get paid once to do this and keep getting paid to support and modify.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Too bad you posted AC, otherwise I could make sure I never hire you. Sorry man, but the last 10 companies I worked for got pretty big things done with Oracle DBs, and were able to host several-terabyte databases doing things that even DB2 would choke on, never mind MySQL or SQL Server, or any other DB I've worked with. I've worked with more companies that have migrated *to* Oracle because they outgrew what they were using, than the other way around. There's always much gnashing of teeth, and angst over going with such a reprehensible company's product...but that's been my experience at least.
"... a recent General Accounting Office report on U.S. military equipment procurement concluded that only 1% of major military purchases involving high technology were delivered on time and on budget."
That book says the problem is due to a sociological mistake. My understanding is that it is entirely intended, a way of making money from the largely hidden military purchases of the U.S. government. For the U.S. government, killing people is an enormous, extremely profitable business.
The book is wrong, it isn't a "sociological mistake." The problems tend to come from changing requirements (from the gov and events), under bidding (by the company), stop and start funding and various directives (from the Congress), legal challenges from the losing competitors, and the nature of the procurement system.
And no, killing people is not "an enormous, extremely profitable business" for the government. It is quite the opposite.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
A big part of the blame should go to the Democrats in Congress that passed the law requiring the site to begin with.
Except that the site was NOT required. Most states did NOT implement their own site, and either default to the federal site or formed a regional partnership.
Nope. A website that has to hook into a bunch of poorly maintained, poorly documented databases. That's the hard part.
This kind of crap is par for the course. I've had to figure out poorly designed databases without documentation, and it didn't cost millions of dollars to do that. Admittedly, insurance company big iron is probably much hairier to deal with than what I'm used to... but $240 million worth? Sorry, I just don't see how this adds up.
Place the realm blame where it belongs and leave Oracle alone.
Who? Lotus Notes? Bill Gates? Nixon?
Nixon. I say we blame Nixon. After all, he was the first sitting president to propose national health care (and of all ironies, Ted Kennedy helped spike it.)
I'll "third" it. My wife needed to use Kynect when I retired. At first there were several bumps. Eventually she was put into contact with a "manager" who looked at the system output for her case, said "nope, not your fault, that looks like a system error", and promptly while my wife was on the telephone with her, over-rode the system to correct it. Things have been fine since.
I suspect Kentucky isn't rich or pretentious enough to try to do everything Oregon might. For development work, it's not a bad mindset.
How about colchicine? It cost about $8/month. Then, one company did a million dollar study, generally considered to have contributed nothing to medical knowledge, and so got temporary exclusivity from the FDA and suddenly it costs $450 for the same thing.
The $1 cost BTW was already covering the factory, employees, etc. The rest is gravy and marketing.
Much of the research is taken care of by universities operating under a federal grant. By all rights, that research belongs to the people already.
Based on the immensity of the pharmaceutical companies, they aren't exactly losing money.
It's horrible sub-standard health care, but still better than what came before.
Learn to love Alaska
I've stayed away from that side of IT, but I've heard it isn't size, it's performance. *any* database can keep up with a 2 TB database, even a flat-file. The trick is to do so with 10k lookups, and 1k writes per second (or some other number, I'm just pulling some out of thin air). Oracle claims some uptime and resiliency that's impossible with "standard" databases as well.
Learn to love Alaska
Right. Most people saved money with that ACA healthcare thing.
Except that the site was NOT required. Most states did NOT implement their own site, and either default to the federal site or formed a regional partnership.
In order to qualify legally for the subsidies under the law each state had to set up its own exchange. If the state is going to have an exchange then people need to have a way to access it. How are you going to do that without a web site? Snail mail? Telephone? Currier?
Obamacare’s Architect Agreed That Only State Exchanges Could Offer Subsidies
There are many states where people are not legally eligible for subsidies. They have been illegally receiving them, but they shouldn't count on that to last..
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I'm pretty sure that interactions with drugs created or repurposed in the recent past don't have a history going back millennia.
The drug ritonavir, which is used to treat AIDs, for example, was only approved in 1996 and it apparently has an interaction with colchicine. The shamans aren't going to be a help with learning that.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
That is no good reason to claw back a long time generic drug. Instead, the producer of the new combination drug should deal with that.
Then there's the people who won't be able to afford any combination of either drug now and will be forced to do without or make do with crocus tea (Hellllloooooooooo shaman!) rather than a well controlled manufactured drug.
Of course, for those who can afford it, it's physicians, not shaman who give them the drugs and watch for side effects and interactions. In fact, that's how most interactions are discovered.
Or, for more fun, look at gabapentin vs pregabalin. The former is a generic, the latter is not. There is little appreciable difference except for price.
I'm fine with regulation, but it needs to make sense.
and so got temporary exclusivity from the FDA
It's the guns of the government that caused the problem. When the government no longer enforces medical monopolies, we'll stop paying monopoly prices.
Manual overrides are key to most designs, particularly in new systems.
It's not going to all work perfectly. Not gonna happen. Make sure a person can brute force a solution. You can automate more when the requirements are better understood, and have stabilized.
The goal should be a *process* that works, whatever the tech, and that includes *people*.
While I agree, in general, with the claims of how shitty Obamacare is...
I have friends who now have health insurance, and another who has finally been able to leave his old employer (to start his own company and become self-employed), because of Obamacare. Specifically, two of these friends are cancer survivors (throat and cervical), one has fibromyalgia, and one has a chronic autoimmune disorder whose name I forget. They wouldn't have been able to buy health insurance, otherwise; nobody was willing to offer it. So, for them personally, Obamacare *is* better than what they had before.
Of course, there are a lot of less-fucked-up ways of addressing that issue.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Because instead of holding corporations to their promises and showing them who owns the tanks, governments in the west have spent the past 10 years selling themselves to the cheapest bidder, with treaties allowing corporations to sue governments if they dare pass laws that impact profits.
Sometimes I wish we had a king with a big ego, who'd on as much as the proposal of such a treaty arrest all those corporate bigshots and hang them publicly.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Both Gabapentin and Pregabalin are Generics. Different drugs. The brand name for Pregabain is Lyrica. Pregabalin is (S)-3-(aminomethyl)-5-methylhexanoic acid, while Gabapentin is 2-[1-(aminomethyl)cyclohexyl]acetic acid. Been on both, side effects for the Lyrica are hugely different than Gabapentin.
Browsing without an adblocker is like fucking without a condom - Mal-2
It's public record who passed the law. The Democrats own that law, lock, stock, and barrel, for better or worse.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Actually, approval does not in practice require the new drug to be as good as or better than the original in any way. It has to show the basic safety and be more effective than placebo.
In many cases, the inexpensive generic isn't even tried before jumping to the expensive option unless the patient brings it up or, in some cases, insists.
My objection is not to the me too drugs in and of themselves, it is to the order they are tried in practice.
The insurance companies are right (for once) to push back when the generic isn't even considered first. They are wrong to keep pushing when the doctor has any articulable reason to go with the more expensive drug for that particular patient, especially when the patient was on the generic and had a problem that the me too might solve.