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Before Using StingRays, Police Must Sign NDA With FBI
v3rgEz writes Advanced cell phone tracking devices known as StingRays allow police nationwide to home in on suspects and to log individuals present at a given location. But before acquiring a StingRay, state and local police must sign a nondisclosure agreement with the FBI, according to documents released via a MuckRock FOIA request. As Shawn Musgrave reports, it's an unusual setup arrangement for two public agencies to swear each other to secrecy, but such maneuvers are becoming more common.
Next, they'll be coming for your firearms.
Of course we won't arrest you for drunk driving or domestic assault Mr. FBI, just like you won't arrest us for violating civil rights or using this highfalutin' cell phone spy gizmo.
How long till someone just breaks in and steals one of these devices for the rest of us to see?
Because if they don't get a warrant, and don't tell the judge how they acquired the evidence, it's still OK, right?
Law enforcement appears to be the other side of the same coin.
- Excerpt from the forbidden novel "1983".
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Who goes to jail? Everyone who signed the NDA?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The agreement (contract) is inherently contrary to the interest of citizens who are the sovereigns in this country.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
JJ
They are impersonating wireless carriers which is fraud.
It's the new version of transparent government.
These devices CANNOT "log individuals present at a given location" but instead log phones. My excuse is that I just happened to lend my phone to a friend that day, similar to how somebody else could have been using my unprotected WiFi connection so perhaps they downloaded all those Metallica albums.
I read the title as "sign DNA" rather than "sign NDA". I got excited thinking about a deal signed in blood...
NT
This is actually a good sign. They're not misusing the "Law Enforcement Sensitive" security classification. Were they claiming it's LES, than it would be a crime to disclose it. In this case, they're complying with the law, and the NDA is a contract, and hence it's not a crime to violate the NDA. There are still civil penalties possible, but not criminal penalties for violating it.
In Soviet Amerika the police NDA you.
Isn't funny when it's true, is it.
These types of NDAs have been popping up more often. The intent is for government agencies to get around the many existing rules for controlling the distribution of information. There are seemingly endless ways of marking documents for restrictions, but there are also rules that go along with them. Most intelligent individuals in government realize that this NDA practice is unethical because it denies the public of the rights they have for some degree of transparency. Despite the fact that government employees have training on these matters forced on them on a regular basis, there are still a handful of individuals who have been promoted to the point that they have way more influence than they do brains.
This is so frightening to think that no one can discuss what it is they are doing. This type of behavior WILL lead to secret police forces subverting the legal system; This WILL bring about a new Nazi SS, or Soviet Union KGB; This WILL be the undoing of the United States of America and the rights of the people.
Anybody involved with these secret underground forces is not to be respected nor obeyed!!!
Even when you "turn them off" they can still be turned back on by any official at a higher government level.
So if a city or municipality turns off theirs, the county or state can turn it on, and it will be turned on during high level fed visits.
Naturally, they can neither confirm nor deny this occurs.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Oh yea forget they would not need them most of the time if they got one.
No sir I dont like it.
They simply have no right to have an NDA for anything at all. This is absolutely insane.
What stops city or state police departments from going out and buying their own? China probably makes some decent stuff by now.
Illegal, you say? I think that horse bolted from the barn a long time ago.
Have gnu, will travel.
The FCC is requiring anybody (specifically, state/local law enforcement) to sign an NDA with the FBI to purchase and/or use "Stingray"s (A proprietary name that is now being used as a catchall for the technology, like "Kleenex" for tissue). The NDA itself is classified & exempt from FOIA requests. The existence of the NDA is not, and was disclosed.
My analysis:
The FCC's NDA requirement, and the hiding of the details of that NDA, is possibly allowed by the FOIA's list of exemptions. I'm not sure which exemption they're claiming (perhaps I missed it in the article's documents), but personally I think it could be reasonable under:
Exemption 4: Information that concerns business trade secrets or other confidential commercial or financial information.
or
Exemption 6: Information that, if disclosed, would invade another individual's personal privacy.
But #6 is only because this involves technology created by a private corporation that has the ability to invade a person's privacy... But that logic would include pretty much any technology, like hearing aids. So I'd go with #4.
Government is fascinating. It is like they're playing "Cards Against Humanity", but instead of shits & giggles they're trying to skirt laws & stay in power.
"A ______ stopped the commie's FOIA request from freeing criminals."
No, it's not like reverse engineering because in this case you don't know what they are investigating. It could be something completely fabricated and trumped up, or something real. We have evidence and claims for both of these things occurring.
I agree with your premise in your second paragraph, but not necessarily for the same reason. Government "secrecy" has always been used toward nefarious ends, always. Any society that has a secretive government can be assured that the government is behaving immorally. The US Government has been complicit in mass murder on numerous occasions. Not just the obvious immoral wars in the Middle East based on lies either. Corporate death squads in South America murdering whole villages for profits (Dole Pineapple Wars), Numerous other South Americans to increase drug trade (Iran/Contra), The "Bush" family (yeah, that one) funded much of Hitler's campaign, and Carnege and Melon not only funded much of the eugenics science but provided most of the scientists.
This is why when we were founded there were explicit rules to protect basic human rights. See where those have gone and continued to go.
ZOMG RACIST! Really, weed smoking Jamaicans and drunk ass Indians? How much more stereotypical can you get! It's just good to know that no matter what country one is in, white people still act white. Oh shit! Now I'm a racists too!
Just few years ago, the entire thing was laid out and constructed with a software defined radio module and used at Burning Man. Anybody can build one of these.But I think you could also build an interesting app to alert you when one is operating in the vicinity. I believe that FCC and other records are public which give the exact locations of all cell towers.If you were to keep a database of this information current, you probably could figure out a way, using the phone's service menu data, to detect an anomalous "tower." And if your app could form a mini-mesh network with others or friends running the same app, you could triangulate the device, knock on the van window and ask "FCC LIcense and Registration, please."
Defense attorneys need to ask any and all law enforcement offers who they depose and/or question on the stand if Stingray was used in the case. This is the best way to undermine this.
In the late 20th century, you could tell the drug dealers because they carried one-way pagers.
In 21st century, you'll be able to tell the drug dealers because they all carry one-way pagers.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
"Stingray" already has a new model name, so it needs to be a more detailed description and question.
Even so, the police can and do get around this by working through cutouts -- informing officers not
in on the secrets what to do, giving them limited information, &c, that causes them to do the "right
thing", up to and including lying (through omission) in court. Check the court transcripts of the
Wen Ho Lee case for details of this carried to ridiculous extremes.
Yes, Canada has guns, but we don't have the same culture.
There's no public/concealed carry permits. You're not allowed to simply walk around carrying unless you're a police officer etc. If you see somebody walking around with a gun, you call the cops, and - depending on the location - he/she is likely to be surrounded by red and blue lights in short order. You're allowed to own guns (after passing certain tests/checks etc) but there are some fairly strict rules about where you're allowed to be out and about with them.
In the US, it's not just gun ownership, but the number of people owning guns and toting them around in public.