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2015 Corvette Valet Mode Recorder Illegal In Some States

innocent_white_lamb writes: The 2015 Corvette has a Valet Mode that records audio and video when someone other than the owner is driving the car. Activating the Valet Mode allows you to record front-facing video as well as capture audio from within the car so you can help keep your Corvette safe when it's in the hands of others. Well, it turns out that recording audio from within the car may be considered a felony in some states that require notice and consent to individuals that they are being recorded. Now GM is sending notices out to dealerships and customers alerting them to this fact as well as promising a future update to the PDR system.

40 of 269 comments (clear)

  1. huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't the inside of the car is privately owned by the owner of the car?

    1. Re:huh? by ganjadude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      so a simple disclaimer on the visor will due

      For quality assurance, your valet drive may be recorded. If you do not consent to being recorded, do not drive this car.

      It works for anything over the telephone right??

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:huh? by Enry · · Score: 3

      That's kinda the point. This wouldn't be any different from putting hidden cameras in your house when the babysitter is over. You're not in a public place, so you should have a reasonable expectation of privacy. You don't lose that expectation just because you were invited into someone else's property.

      I'd put a sticker on the window "car has recording technology installed" and maybe a notice on the dash when the car starts or goes into that mode. That's pretty easy to do. Well, not so easy after the fact. Maybe next model year.

    3. Re:huh? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      That's kinda the point. This wouldn't be any different from putting hidden cameras in your house when the babysitter is over.

      No it isn't. Recording video without consent or notification is generally legal. Recording audio is not. Most security cameras record silently for this reason.

    4. Re:huh? by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem here is recording audio. In the states where this isn't permitted, it is considered "Wire tapping" since it is "intercepting communication". These are called "all party states", where everyone has to give consent.

      You are, however, free to record just video.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    5. Re:huh? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nope, wrong. It's your house. You can put all the cameras you want inside of it. There are no restrictions.

      So, if the car is private property ... I'd be curious to know the legal distinction.

      If you have no expectation of privacy in my home, you also have no expectation of privacy in my car.

      It's not a public space, and you're there under my permission to complete a specific task. If you subsequently go outside the bounds of that task, or start rifling through my stuff, in what way is it different from a nanny cam?

      And, really, just take a page out of the playbook of software ... by entering this car you agree to all terms and conditions set forth by the vehicle owner. (I'm joking on that one, I don't agree that click through EULAs in which one party can arbitrarily make changes is a good idea.)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which is insane, and reeks of laws that were made before anyone thought video would be common place. Either they should both be legal, or not.

    7. Re:huh? by schlachter · · Score: 2

      "All your audio and video are belong to us"

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    8. Re:huh? by WorBlux · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you capture video of two deaf people signing to each other, is that wiretapping?

    9. Re:huh? by LennyDotCom · · Score: 2

      "All your audio and video are belong to us"--- The NSA

      FTFY

      --
      http://Lenny.com
    10. Re:huh? by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Informative

      Doubtful. Walk into most gas stations or any major retail store and you're under video surveillance and their notification amounts to a sticker on the window of the door or on the wall as you enter the building. If there's a notification on the visor, that would be sufficient in my opinion. Those are about as non-intrusive as it gets so why should a car be held to higher standards?

    11. Re:huh? by detritus. · · Score: 3, Informative

      At least in my state (MI), video surveillance does not need any notification where there's no reasonable expectation of privacy, but audio requires consent if you are not a party to the conversation.

    12. Re:huh? by kaatochacha · · Score: 2

      Audio is the key. You'll notice stores don't record audio usually. Audio laws are more stringent

    13. Re:huh? by Sun · · Score: 2

      According to that logic, if I own an apartment, and I rent it out to you, I can video and audio record its interior.

      It doesn't work that way, and that's a good thing. When you are driving a car, you have a reasonable expectation that you are not being watched and recorded all the time.

      The country I live in (Israel) is strictly a "one party" country. Recording the inside of a car is, however, a case where none of the parties to the conversation are aware of the recording. It wouldn't pass here either.

      Shachar

    14. Re:huh? by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well that's stupid; it discriminates against people using sign language!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    15. Re:huh? by Yakasha · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are off the rails. The FCC does not have the power to nullify the anti-wiretapping laws of states.

      Fuck the state. Seriously. They work for the tax payer and should be representing the interests of tax payer rather than criminals be they individuals or corporations.

      They do. That is why it is illegal to record you without your permission; such as when your friend loans you their car... When thinking about a law, try to imagine yourself in both positions.

    16. Re:huh? by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

      In some states, all parties must be explicitly aware of the recording and consent to it.

      The key here is explicit. However the driver is notified, it must be obvious and conspicuous so the sticker may need to be a lot more intrusive.

      So have the HUD display, "Audio and Video of you is being recorded. If yo do not consent to this, GTFO", when the valet mode is turned on.

    17. Re:huh? by LessThanObvious · · Score: 2

      I guess they should have just done video. Who cares about audio anyway? Do you need to know what the valet said about your ugly sweater or listen to his private American Idol audition? Then again I'd pay, not to have that feature. What I want is a camera that starts recording the exterior if your car gets bumped in a parking lot and the alarm is set.

    18. Re:huh? by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      In some states, all parties must be explicitly aware of the recording and consent to it.

      California has sections of law that target recordings (audio and video) in vehicles specifically. So what you may know of laws about audio recording may not apply in vehicles.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  2. No parking in the little girls room..... by Bob_Who · · Score: 2

    I'm sorry your Corvette is being cited for child pornography and its distribution....

  3. Just put fine print sticker on the dash,,,,, by genner · · Score: 4, Funny

    This car monitored for quality assurance.

    1. Re:Just put fine print sticker on the dash,,,,, by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Sorry, but simply by adding "By entering this vehicle you are agreeing to be monitored" is all that is needed.

      You know, that brings up an interesting thought exercise.

      If the valet can legally refuse to be recorded, then can they then legally say "sorry, you need to park somewhere else"? Because your ability to get service might be trumped by their privacy rights.

      I'm not saying I disagree with you, and I'm not sure I'd trust valets who said they wouldn't park the car if they were going to be monitored.

      I've been to a few underground parking structures, and the guy basically says "we're full, but leave your keys". At which point I basically say "no, sorry, I have no intention of giving you my keys, I'll be leaving now".

      I'm torn on this one. On the one hand, you've entered private property with the express intent of providing a service, so what is your expectation of privacy? What is the law on nanny cams in states like this?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  4. Wiretapping laws still exist. by gurps_npc · · Score: 2
    But generally allow for signs granting notice to allow you to record.

    If you put a sign up in ALL your cars stating "Warning, some cars of this model may be have cameras that can recorded you." where the driver may see it, that would probably make it legal.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  5. Simple fix. by blueshift_1 · · Score: 2

    Yeah, this seems like a pretty easy fix. Just a little message on the radio or clear sticker on the instrument panel. Done.

    1. Re:Simple fix. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Technically, you'd have to add the message in braille to be compliant.

    2. Re:Simple fix. by Albanach · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's a Corvette. You think a Corvette owner wants a label like that on the dashboard?

      Perhaps a better solution would be a 'valet key' that when used limits access to the boot, reduces acceleration (like the Eco mode you get on lots of modern cars and limits speed to say 60mph), When the valet key is placed in the ignition the stereo could announce that video and audio recording will be enabled when the car is started.

      With a key like that, some folk might even let their kids drive the Corvette!

    3. Re:Simple fix. by worf_mo · · Score: 3, Funny

      You might have been out for a Score 5 Funny, but you also delivered a plausible explanation for the abysmal parking performance of the guy I saw earlier today.

    4. Re:Simple fix. by Yakasha · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you need to read in Braille, what the fuck are you doing at the wheel of a goddamm car???

      Why would they put Braille on the drive-up ATMs if they didn't expect me to drive there?

    5. Re:Simple fix. by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 2

      It's a 2011 Ford.

      That doesn't narrow things down a lot. Is it an entry level 2011 Fiesta? Or is it a loaded 2011 Mustang GT500? (I would have used the Ford GT as the high end, but they stopped making those in 2006.)

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  6. Re:If I own the car by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Its not illegal as long as you mention "Hey, my car has video cameras in it." before you hand them the keys.

    Whats illegal is taping them without their knowledge. They could potentially make a call to their lawyer or doctor after they park it and you could unintentionally record privileged information. At some point such systems will be so common you wont have to mention it anymore.

  7. Re:Keeping it safe by ganjadude · · Score: 2

    it keeps them safe after the fact. I take it you have never used valet service or had your car in for work before. Its almost impossible to get a valet to fess up about a scratch on the car, or that he took the car out for a joyride. This camera is more about keeping valets honest than anything else

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  8. Re:If I own the car by GuB-42 · · Score: 2

    If you don't need to get consent from your valet that it's natural that the hotel doesn't need your consent for recording what you say in your room (which is actually their room).
    Is it all right for you ?

  9. Re:Illegal or inadmissable? by Rich0 · · Score: 2

    In my state recording audio without consent of all parties present is illegal, full stop. The fact that it is illegal also makes it inadmissible in court.

    Of course, lots of things that are illegal aren't prosecuted, and this tends to be one of those things. However, it definitely is against the law.

  10. Re:Keeping it safe by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Valet mode also locks storage compartments, and disables the stereo. corvette commercial hawking the feature

  11. Re:If I own the car by gstoddart · · Score: 2

    I never made a contract anyway when I stayed in a hotel, I signed myself in and payed the bill on exit ... no contract involved.

    I agree with the rest of your post ... but that paper you sign on the dotted line when you register?

    That's a contract stipulating what they'll give you, and what they expect from you.

    I know I've never stayed at a hotel which didn't have the "sign here" form. You probably didn't read it, but you did sign it. At the very least, you agreed to be responsible for damages and your bill.

    Unless of course you're in the habit of staying in anonymous, cash-only hotels rented by the hour. But then it's a totally different thing.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  12. Re:Use the EULA? by WorBlux · · Score: 2

    Nah just encrypt the audio channel. Which can be decrypted by the manufacturer upon a proper subpena. Most states allow exceptions if a recording is made exclusivly for legal purposes.

  13. Re:Castle Doctrine by ihtoit · · Score: 2

    actually, in England if one party to a conversation consents to it being recorded, then anything goes (Data Protection Act 1998 Section 36, which also explicity covers your waiving your rights to anything upon entering MY HOME particularly when not invited). Any individual acting in a public capacity in any given situation waives his right to privacy, period (Stafford, per Munby J). Acting in a public space, even within the confines of a private conveyance, implies consent to being monitored (various local ordinances covering CCTV and audio recording in an enclosed space).

    My question to you, is where are your citations to reinforce your claims of such activity being "illegal, nearly all over the world"? BTW, ignorance of the Law is not an excuse to break it.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  14. Re:Use the EULA? by tompaulco · · Score: 4, Funny

    It would have to be conspicuous enough that it would be obvious to a prosecutor, judge, or whoever else enters the mix.

    Why does it have to be conspicuous? Just put it in a sealed box and tell the Judge he can see the EULA after he buys the car, after which point he will no longer be able to return the car. There is legal precedent.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  15. Re:If I own the car by jratcliffe · · Score: 2

    There is no natural law obligation to get consent from someone who is driving *my* car.

    Next time the valet's name tag reads "John Locke," make sure you point that out.

  16. Re:And your major concern is really... by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 2

    >If you're driving a sports car and parking is a few blocks away those guys are fighting to get to park your car instead of Grandpa's Cadillac next in line. Frankly, it's just too much fun

    Most sports cars also make the car weak and wimpy when the valet key is inserted. Engine RPMs are capped, suspension is softened like crazy, acceleration is less than half of what it is when unrestricted, etc. Not to mention a special trip meter that shows up (next to the odometer) that tracks total miles driven while the valet key was used. This helps cut down on joyriding.

    --
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