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Downtown Project Suicides Shock High Tech Community
HughPickens.com writes Nellie Bowles writes in Recode that three of the most prominent high tech entrepreneurs involved with Tony Hsieh's project to build a startup city in Downtown Las Vegas have recently committed suicide, sending the tight-knit community into a tailspin. In January 2013, Jody Sherman, the 48-year-old founder of Ecomom, one of the most prominent Vegas tech-funded startups, shot himself while in his car. His company had been going south. In January 2014, 24-year-old Ovik Banerjee, who was part of the first Venture for America group in Vegas and an integral member of the Downtown Project team, leapt from his Town Terrace apartment in downtown. In May 2014, Matt Berman, the 50-year-old founder of Bolt Barber, the flagship shop at the center of the Container Park, was found in his home in an apparent suicide by hanging. Whether or not the suicides are statistically significant, the deaths have clearly shaken the entrepreneurs.
According to Alyson Shontell, in a social media age where word of success and failure travels fast, entrepreneurs say it's harder than ever to run a company — and it's harder than ever to fail. "It was a hell of a lot of work for not a hell of a lot of return," says Dave McClure, an investor in Ecomom and the entrepreneur behind investment firm 500Startups. "And then there are days when you sit in a corner and cry. You can't really do anything else. You don't have a social life. You don't really want to interact with family and friends because there's just not much context for them. Your world revolves around your startup and it's all about trying to survive and not look like an idiot in front of employees." "In the past, failure was very contained," another entrepreneur says. "When you failed, you felt bad around your family, the people you raised money from, but it wasn't as public. Failure in an era of social media and social video and global events is a very public thing. Jody [Sherman] put himself out there this time and became very respected for what he was doing. That possibility of very public shame is something that didn't exist before." Brad Feld writes that if you are ever considering committing suicide, reach out to someone and ask for help. "It's ok to fail. It's ok to lose. It's ok to be depressed. If you are contemplating suicide, get help. If you have an entrepreneurial friend contemplating suicide, do your best to get them help."
According to Alyson Shontell, in a social media age where word of success and failure travels fast, entrepreneurs say it's harder than ever to run a company — and it's harder than ever to fail. "It was a hell of a lot of work for not a hell of a lot of return," says Dave McClure, an investor in Ecomom and the entrepreneur behind investment firm 500Startups. "And then there are days when you sit in a corner and cry. You can't really do anything else. You don't have a social life. You don't really want to interact with family and friends because there's just not much context for them. Your world revolves around your startup and it's all about trying to survive and not look like an idiot in front of employees." "In the past, failure was very contained," another entrepreneur says. "When you failed, you felt bad around your family, the people you raised money from, but it wasn't as public. Failure in an era of social media and social video and global events is a very public thing. Jody [Sherman] put himself out there this time and became very respected for what he was doing. That possibility of very public shame is something that didn't exist before." Brad Feld writes that if you are ever considering committing suicide, reach out to someone and ask for help. "It's ok to fail. It's ok to lose. It's ok to be depressed. If you are contemplating suicide, get help. If you have an entrepreneurial friend contemplating suicide, do your best to get them help."
Think of it as a stealth mode startup seeking to disrupt the living paradigm.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Ego. Desire to give life meaning through achievements. Sense of Responsibility to have received money (and mounting feeling to have 'wasted it').
Professional hit men kill their victims by apparent suicide or accident: overdose, auto accident, ski accident, etc.
1 or more of these could have been suicided.
You're talking about Vegas here. I seriously doubt that three guys all decided they couldn't handle the failure of a project like this.
All three methods of suicide are suspect as well.
I lived in Vegas for years and it's a really shitty town. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find some corruption behind it all that was coming to light.
Suicide? Meh...
How does "providing eco friendly and organic products to moms who desire an eco-conscious lifestyle for themselves and their children" amount to being a member of the "high tech community"? How does real estate development or running a barber shop make you a member of the high tech community? All these people are businessmen, and their troubles seem to be due to bad business decisions. No "high tech" involved, except perhaps that they were hoping that they could sell to "techies".
1 or more of these could have been suicided.
That seems like a fairly natural thought, doesn't it?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The summary does do a very good job of explaining what was going on...
All of these men are involved in the same project... "The Vegas Downtown Project" who's goal seems to be to bring a tech sector to downtown Vegas. Why that would be a good idea is anyone's guess.
The CEO has stepped down as well. http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/...
The whole thing seems pretty fishy. I don't go to Vegas for a reason...
None of which are reasons for suicide.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
All of those are reasons for suicide. Oh, you mean you don't believe they are *sufficient* reasons for suicide, for you, at this time? Then don't kill yourself. Today.
Your life can change in the blink of an eye.
While the thought of loans from corrupt sources comes to mind as a catalyst, I believe there are other reasons. (this is Vegas, and while Corporations are now the Casino hoods instead of Cosa Nostra, hoods will still make you short-term, high interest loans featuring successful collection agents)
Business IS business.
These people were living their dream, too close to the bone.
1. Never Marry Your Business. That's like marrying your hammer or pocketknife, it is a tool. If it doesn't work , replace it. You are not there to serve it as a marriage partner. It will never fullfill this role and you will waste your life trying. If you spend your life trying and failing, you aren't interested in what you are doing. If you learn from your mistakes and others mistakes, you can't help but climb.Your business that you love is still a soul sucking vampire that will drain you and leave your husk to rot in a ditch. Avoid giving it priority above family, health and other dreams you have. Sacrifice is for chumps.
2. Build your BIG business from smaller businesses and investments. This gives you throwaways to practice your chops with and if they fail, you have learned with one of many baskets of eggs, not the whole hen house. Keep yourself the main investor in the Big One, sell off other ventures as your time and profits demand.
3. Avoid investors in the BIG one, unless you want to retire. Even then, keep a vast majority of it unless the rat race appeals to you less than that island you've been eyeing.
4. Short of transgressing ethics, take every positive break you can, incorporate with the government as little as possible and be honest in your dealings. You are only as good as your word. Even accomplishment is second to this.
5.Go with your intuition every chance you get.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I just don't understand this idea.
Why would you have only one chance? Why would your life from that point forward just suck forever? I left college before I got a degree the first time and started doing database development. The company never did well but also was not horrible and managed to survive overall. However I got bored of it and decided to go back to school.
I just graduated with a degree in chemical and biological engineering, solving a problem for a major biotech company, I am now in Germany about to starts a Master's degree and PhD and some of the experts I know expect I will start at the mid to high six figure range when I get out. That is also if I don't choose to go the startup way where I could make massively more than that.
This was after just doing database development for about 10 years and deciding to go back to school. Sure I was the older person in the class but nobody cared and nobody seems to care now and my experience has been very helpful.
This idea that you only have one chance should be taken out back and shot the way it deserves. You have as many chances as you want and you can always try again.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Hmmm... Three linked "suicides" in Las Vegas. This sure would be a nifty bit of viral marketing for the new season of CSI... Just sayin'...
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
they see it as having one chance to make it to billionaire.
"It's Las Vegas, Jake. Of course people are killing themselves."
You are welcome on my lawn.
Silly as it sounds, they would have had much easier time raising money for next project than some unknown guy. Sounds like personal problems.
Man, my comment subject looks like it was written by a 14 yo. But that aside...
...I can absolutely relate to that. My biggest fear in life is rejection, I hate rejection, I have such a hard time handling rejection that last time I was rejected for something, it took me 3 years of my life just to recover. Many times I contemplated suicide, but I wussed out every time I tried (and that's a good thing).
That's the NO #1 reason I'm not starting up my company right now, I have experience and TONS of it, I've been a service tech for years, an elected official for large groups of people, teacher for all ages. And STILL - I am worried about failure. C'mon, who isn't? I read somewhere that most business executives are Psychopaths because running a business with no empathy makes for one helluva war machine hellbent on winning, thus increase the chance of actually getting there, no matter the costs of others...which definitively isn't me as I have deep feelings for anyone who suffers or goes trough hard times.
Heck, I even went trough a very expensive leadership assessment test (not online, this was with a bunch of professional coaches, psychologists etc.) and of the entire group I was elected the most likely to be a good successful leader. But would you believe I STILL DOUBT THAT?!
This is tough stuff, not easy for anyone. This is a problem that gets WAY too little attention, and I'm pretty confident that any country who paid attention to this, would have a lot more successful starter companies and thus a much lover unemployment rate.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
I like your post, very positive. I'd just like to add that for those that would get close to suicide, when you do finally decide to not do it and direct your attention to "trying again" (at life, not necessarily what you think you failed at), you will be even stronger in your ability to focus on what you want to do, and will find it easier. You'll also find it easier to gain respect from others. This is from experience.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
Thanks for the obligatory, "If you feel bad, reach out to someone or the suicide hotline." I thought I only got this PC bullshit from TV.
Not all ./ members are cold psychopathic nerds that can only understand logic/black & white/1 and 0s. If there is anyone on the planet that has felt the suffering of rejection...it must surely be nerds. Have you ever seen the movie "Revenge of the Nerds?", yeah...it's a comedy, but very much rooted in reality.
I think it's great that Slashdot flashes the human side of who we are once in a blue moon.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
I just don't understand this idea.
Why would you have only one chance? Why would your life from that point forward just suck forever?
A couple things here.
You are 100 percent correct, We will all fail at something. It's what we do afterwards that counts.
People have checked out early forever, who knows the guys rationale or lack of it
But here's what I think is a looming problem. Young people, at least in the US, have come through the batshit insane High self esteem/zero tolerance schooling system. They've had it drilled into their heads the not quite contradictory, but close to it concepts of "You are the most special person in the world", and "If you are caught smoking the the bathroom, it will go on your permanent record, and you'll end up living under a bridge", and They'll be expelled and their life completely ruined if you accidentally bring a spork to school.
So these poor kids get out of school not only thinking that they are the most special thing on earth (while not having earned that self esteem yet) and thinking that there is no tolerance for error. Failure is forever. So many crash and burn, and that self esteem takes a big hit.
Time will tell how the kids will react. Fortunately we have pharmaceutical companies selling maintenance "leveling" drugs, I guess. Still, that has to be a nasty hit to the ego. I failed at a few things in life, but I already knew I was a dumshit, and not to be all that surprised or dismayed.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
This is just stupid. Many of the most successful founders failed many times before their big win. It isn't easy, I think people go into the startup world thinking it is an easy path to striking it rich when it is far from.
Seems a bit cold-hearted, don't you think? Not everything should revolve around money and achievement. Have some compassion for people dealing with stress.
To end one's life is a choice, and the ultimate right of all human beings. To choose to die is not a punishment, nor should it be considered such.
There are literally millions of people that wish they could have the chance like that these folks had
Exactly. They got that chance, and they failed. You don't see why that might put them in a bad enough place to consider suicide?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
People who haven't been suicidal just don't tend to understand it very well. Those who contemplate suicide are well beyond the point where they can rationally see a future without intolerable pain whether that's physical or psychological. They typically just want to end that pain and cease to be. They don't feel like they deserve the respect you're talking about - they believe their loved ones are better off without them. And in any case they are often beyond caring about what others are going to think of them (those are the ones who won't leave a note - they figure what's the point).
There are literally millions of people that wish they could have the chance like that these folks had
So my mind was filled with wonder when the evening headlines read
Richard Cory went home last night and put a bullet through his head.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Chronic stress causes overt brain damage which reduces the cerebral cortex's ability to regulate the lymbic system. When you are too stressed for too long, you literally lose emotional control. This is a fact of neurology, and has nothing to do with your mindset or strength of will.
Once this has happened, something like depression is deadly. It isn't just feeling sad; it warps your perception of reality to the point where suicide actually seems to make sense. Simple clear rational thinking stops being possible because your brain is too damaged for it, at that point. The painful muscle cramps, panic attacks, and insomnia that go along with depression only make matters worse.
Running a business, especially in this cartel-dominated economy where it is nearly impossible to get your foot in the market's door, creates precisely the sort of endless stress that will cause this.
The only good news is that the brain damage is reversible; the brain will heal itself if given enough time (measured in months) without high stress levels. But an entrepreneur scrambling to keep his (or her) company afloat will not have such an opportunity.
Well, most people get zero chances.
It would just be... ordinary. Work every day to pay your expenses and hope maybe you'll be able save enough to one day not have to work any more when you're too old to enjoy the free time. Same as the rest of us, but a lot harder to take when you had a chance at something much better.
Nope. It is the opposite. Depression is the sign that you have been too strong for too long. It is thought that depression is a natural reaction of the brain to make you stop banging your head against the wall when you consciously don't want to give in a hopeless situation. When one is only going to hurt oneself and maybe others when one insists that one should never give up. Then depression steps in to protect one from harming oneself and accept a low profile until the situation changes. When such a thing happens, it is a sign that it is time to stop and take a step back. If one doesn't accept this and tries to achieve unachievable, depression only gets stronger and one may commit a suicide. Other successful people who have gone through series of failures are probably more lenient to themselves. When they see a failure they admit it quickly. The motto of the Silicon Valley is is fail early, fail often. Basically it means: don't be too strong. Test new ideas, put some effort. But if it doesn't work, don't get too attached to them. Let them fail before they fail you.
I think I see what's wrong here. There's a severe water shortage around Vegas and they're trying to start up high tech companies in the middle of it in new towns. What could possibly go wrong? Talk about a short-sighted pipe dream. You can't just look at property values and taxes and say yep, that's where we should build. The air conditioning costs alone kill server farms. I mean who thought any of this was a good idea?!
That's not strong, it's stubborn. The inability to judge and turn loose of a bad situation isn't strength.
Be careful what you wish for. You can blame the local and federal Goverment (and voter) for excessive taxation and regulations for the small to medium businesses (SMB market). If you're Fortune 500, you own a piece of that government! Regardless, if the market is so bad that only the ruthless and cunning survive, that's the kind of fight or flight culture you're going to have. Owners will be nasty and unforgiving; the employees will take credit and backstab each other to keep their job. This is a very caustic attitude for a nation to descend too. Please see former communist nations as an example of long-lasting cultural / trust impact people have with one another.
Life is not for the lazy.
It is just how the brain works as conditioned by our evolution and education. "Never give up" is the very much glorified by different cultures. Whereas those who give up are vilified as cowards. The most successful men rarely want to admit aht there success is 95% of luck.
You're talking about something completely off the subject, your regurgitating stuff from inside your head that you're concerned with.
I never wished for anything, I only state that 90% of the World wish they had the opportunities these people had, and I would also comment on the absolute stupidity of revitalizing a town that should never have existed in the first place.
And with those opportunities these people failed, and then presumably committed suicide (if indeed it wasn't murder), I can't think of a weaker behavior than that, they were weak, good riddance.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
You're right, but that's a sure grim way of looking at the situation. After all, life is no fault of our own. Suicide is always an attempt at bettering the situation. If you take the stance, "You are weak for thinking over suicide" then if you ever are in the situation where you're thinking over suicide, in a real way, you'd be one of the ones that may actually do it, even if only for looking at yourself as the weakling that you are now calling others.
Have a heart, man.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
It is cold hearted, and it's a bit assholish too, if you stuck me in a room with one of them I might behave differently, I might feel some sympathy, just reading it on the Internet isn't inclined to evoke an emotional response that you approve of.
There is simply to much misery in the World, if you're going to get on the Internet and read the news you can't feel bad for all of it, or you wouldn't be here, you would have tired of it long ago.
These folks had it better than 90% of the World, and when they made a boo boo they killed themselves.
Weak...
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
And failing that means life isn't worth living? That's a fucked way of thinking.
Suicidal people are often incredibly selfish; I know because I used to be one, until I survived and realized what a stupid asshole I was being.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Did you decide to leave college on your own, or did you get expelled?
One of those may have a severe negative effect on how you feel about yourself, and how others view you.
Overall I would say that just trying again tends to help.
My first time in college I did okay but not great. When I went back I was very focused. I knew what I wanted out of the degree and chose it for a very specific purpose. I chose all my classes to further my goals and I worked extremely hard on my classes instead of partying. That work has paid off to an insane degree.
I never intended to go to graduate school. However for my final undergrad project I solved a problem that was considered impossible in biotech using all the skills I had gained as a programmer and also a lot of very hard work. As a result I was asked to go to Germany for a Master's degree and PhD and have continued to work with the biotech company I did my project with.
I will admit that the 80 hour weeks during the project where not very fun or 60 or so hour weeks for the past 3 years with no breaks was not very fun either. However I had a very specific goal in mind and I knew what I was sacrificing for and now it looks like it will pay off better than I had ever imagined.
The world is just too interesting to kill yourself. Heck I want to make myself immortal so that once I am done learning on this planet I can head out and learn things elsewhere. If I could get nearly all engineering and science degrees I would.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Suicide has nothing to with doing 'something else'. It's not about the future at all.
Suicide is about Making The Pain Stop. Now. At Any Cost.
I wish that we truly understood suicide so we could help these people.
There is a lot of stigma attached to suicide and that makes it hard to do a truly objective view of it. I don't like this whole blame the victim mentality that we have about it or saying we are better off without that person or that they are weak willed etc. I want to know the actual biochemistry of it, what neural structures are present that allow suicide to be done. What actually causes these structural and chemical changes? What can we do to help these people etc?
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
To end one's life is a choice,
Some people feel that way. Others believe that your life was provided by your parents/family/ancestors/community/etc. and that it is not yours but an ongoing debt to someone/something else.
It's certainly not unambiguously an "ultimate right".
I don't believe that most people have zero chances.
During the senior design project most teams just slacked off and put in the minimal work required to get a grade. One of the companies I knew was currently hiring and in the exact field the project was in. If that team had done a good job they would have all gotten VERY nice job offers. Only one other team got offers at all and while it was not amazing it was a good offer and the team had done a very good job on their project. They saved a company that makes cheese about $10M a year just by optimizing the drying operation. It was not hard, it just took a fair bit of careful attention to details. All the math and engineering involved was stuff we could already easily do.
What I find is that life has countless opportunities but most people don't recognize that an opportunity is possible and they put no effort into doing well. If everything you do is minimum possible to get by why should someone go out of their way to hire you over anyone else that applies for the job?
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
You're welcome.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
"They failed, and suicide is cowardly"
So you feel exactly the same way I do, but you're more comfortable berating someone that states it openly.
By the way you have no idea what I have or have not done, really presumptuous of you, which implies the only opinion that matters is yours, which IS a sociopathic trait.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I'm a bit curious. Are you judging the suicides becuase you've been a similar situation? That is to say, worked absurdly hard to get a small business rolling, only to fail and be judged as a failure by many of the people you know (plus whatever contacts you have on social media). Or, are you just playing the "they can't handle that much negative stimilus, how pathetic" card?
It hasn't much to do with rational thinking. Mental health is not something that we are conditionned to think about. Among other things, it relies heavily on a fine balance of chemicals in the brain. You have been able to think of your circumcstances rationally, and your are better for it. However, stress can easily lead to despair for various poeople, even if their circumstances are not as dire as those of others. Just as some people may be consumed by rage for no good reason.
Mental health is tricky, and I am certainly not an expert on the subject or on how to maintain it. Hopefully as a society we can move on from it being a taboo subject to people being able to routinely seeking help or just evaluation. How many tragedies could be avoided then?
I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
You aren't curious, people like you don't get "curious" about people like me, you already have it in your head what I am, your comment is bait and nothing more.
But to address the naïveté of your "curious question", who in this life has not been judged? And if the people in your life judge you as a failure for trying let me give you some advice.
Find a better class of people.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
...what neural structures are present that allow suicide to be done.
I don't think it works like that, as the human will is not physical. I can say though, whenever people start focusing more and more on themselves, that's a for sure sign of being depressed. This is why, if you're depressed, you should go to the ocean and stand at the shore, just stare into the horizon. Or if you don't live near water, just look up at the sky. The point being, it puts into perspective how small you are, as well as how small your problems are.
There's a good song written by (a fucking genius) Harry Nilsson called "Think About Your Troubles".
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
That work has paid off to an insane degree.
You got a degree in insanity?
;)
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
Rather defensive. For what it's worth, I'm not out to get you. Though I could see why you'd think so since this is /. and all.
My thought preliminary judgement of you was "I hope it's the former." I can kind of get people who look down on others for not doing emotionally as well as them in similar situations (soldiers who look down on other soldiers who have PTSD for exmaple). But if you're just judging someone without knowing their situation, or at least their emotioinal state? Yea, that's being a smug dick. Like a civilian calling a soldier with PTSD weak I suppose.
I'll give you some advice as well. If you fail in a business venture of this magnitude, people WILL judge you as a failure no matter how much they care about you. This is especially true if you stressed your finances and your relationship for the sake of the business. Now those that do care will forgive and move on quickly, but you still hurt them. And finding a better class of people won't take away the sting that they're not the ones that made a mistake, you did.
Now, I imagine you'll point out that no matter how bad one feels, they shouldn't kill themselves (that's weak as you say). All I can say to that is, unless you truly appreciate how depression and stress can erode the rational mind, then judge if you must. But at the same time, be aware that you're judging from ignorance.
First of all, someone whom is about to commit suicide will openly acknowledge it is a cowardly act; and yet, for someone to follow through it speaks volumes of their struggle and desperation. They need help and support, not be beaten down further.
As for my presumption about you: this is me giving you the benefit of the doubt. So I'm being kind here. But in fact if you do run a business and are of this attitude, name the business so those that care can avoid supporting an asshole such as yourself. Or, are you too cowardly?!
Life is not for the lazy.
The suicide's mantra - "Nobody understands my problems." Bullshit. Almost everyone has had dire thoughts and stresses. It's no one's fault suicides can't quit focusing on any solution other than offing themselves.
People don't commit suicide when they're happy. They do it when they're depressed. Those who have "made the decision" will appear happy to outsiders because they have "found their solution." That's a very dangerous spot to be in. They look like they're coming out of the dumps instead of heading for the dumpster.
The additional problem is, once you've been through a major depression, you're more liable to go through another one. Depression, like happiness, is a chemical state of the brain. Look around you. People are self-medicating with booze, drugs, etc. There's plenty of schizophrenics who smoke because of the effect nicotine has on their brains.
It doesn't help that there's a huge stigma surrounding depression - "Just pull yourself out of it" - that prevents people from getting the very help that they need.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
The will to prepare to succeed is more important than the will to succeed. The GP poster took the time to prepare. These opportunities don't just fall in your lap because "I should get it because I have the will to succeed." That sort of magical thinking doesn't work on shark tank or dragon's den either.
Yes, it's hard to get out of poverty - but what's worse now is how easy it is to slide right back into it compared to past generations. Economic mobility - the ability to change your place on the income scale - is at a low that is crippling our economies, as nobody wants to leave any "meat on the bone" for anyone else lest they too fall off the social and economic ladder/
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Well my professors do think I am the most likely person they have ever had as a student to be a mad engineer. So while you don't have to be insane to do what I do is certainly helps.
What I have done so far will save tens of thousands of lives ever year and the stuff I am working on now will save millions. However, I have not used conventional problem solving techniques. I combine engineering with computer programming in a way that seems natural to me but those I have worked with and my professors say is not remotely normal or natural but it does work.
The program I am starting in Germany so far seems unique in the world. The entire program is based on writing practical computer simulations for engineering applications. It seems like an obvious degree to exist but the skill set seems so insanely rare that it just does not happen. I am the only person doing this degree in biotech that I know of.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
depression is a terrible fate from which to suffer. only the strong-willed survive, as the weak kill themselves after depression has feasted upon their souls.
I'm not sure that's accurate. I went through a really brutal depression where I had essentially no will-power yet I wasn't suicidal for a moment. Maybe that would have changed if the depression was worse but I suspect there was some other factor at work. It's probably different for different people but I think one of the big problems is a complete loss of hope and a perception of suicide as the answer and a way to escape the pain. In this case strong will can be a problem, when you're depressed you have no hope for the future, the only thing that lies ahead is more depression. It's a lie, things can change and get much better, and you know that's the case, but you don't really believe it. In this scenario if someone truly see suicide as an answer then a strong will might cause them to follow through on the extreme solution rather than doing the little things that seem pointless but might help in the long run.
I think the key to fighting depression and suicidal tendencies is to find something else that brings purpose and hope to their lives. If entrepreneurs are at greater risk I suspect it's due to two reasons. First their focus on business means less time is spent finding other reasons for purpose. And second, one of the reasons to become an entrepreneur is to find meaning and purpose because you can't find it elsewhere. Case in point, I'm in the process of trying to get an Internet startup going right now. One of the reasons is I have a great idea and I think I can pull it off, but the other reason is I can't find a lot of meaning and purpose in my life right now, but I think this startup will have a lot of meaning and purpose and I want to share in that purpose.
I stole this Sig
Can you somehow put that on a medical bracelet or in your will somewhere? So that when you hit a rough patch, are feeling down and depressed, have slightly low self esteem and low self confidence, and have a personality predisposed to feeling obligated to perform and not to disappoint -- especially when hundreds of eyes are upon you -- we can save you the trouble of pulling the trigger or jumping, and we can just throw a plastic bag over your head, in the privacy of your own home, so that no one has to see your brain matter splattered on the sidewalk or the wall of your apartment.
Not exactly.
In fact, it's more about "social success".
I wish to succeed and be recognized socially for my success, otherwise I would not have taken all these risks.
If I fail, not only will I have a negative view of myself but also others will have a negative view of me.
What do I have as solution ?
"As for my presumption about you: this is me giving you the benefit of the doubt. So I'm being kind here."
"supporting an asshole such as yourself. Or, are you too cowardly?!"
You are contradicting yourself, the fact you carry on this conversation with me suggest you have far deeper problems than than the average Joe blow, at a minimum I am honest, you are delusional.
Since you so obviously hate/dislike/despise/whatever me the only reason you would continue to "feed the troll" is something in you that just has to make a point, just has to have the last word, because again all that matters is your opinion.
By the way I love this, it affirms my misanthropy, which puts me in excellent company.
http://www.goodreads.com/quote...
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I went to an instate school and applied for many grants and also ended up with some loans. Shortly after I started school my business partner died and I was left running a business by myself that I really had no idea how to run. I managed to be a full time student and keep the business running. The work I put in to do that was insane and I had no breaks beyond about 1 to 2 days in a row for 3 years.
I did not do ANY parties when I went back to school. I pretty much just studied, went to class and worked. I was just about at the poverty line income wise but I made it work by not spending money on many things that other people do like cable tv, expensive cell phone plans, eating out etc.
I also decided not to have a girl friend or get entangled in any social issues. My life as stressful enough without adding more. I was also smart in that I did not have any children.
So after doing all of that so far the financial rewards have been very low and I have another 4 to 6 years of very hard work ahead of me before I am done. My coworkers at the biotech company think that this will all pay off hugely once I am done and from everything I can see they are right but I have definitely worked hard and sacrificed for close to 10 years by the time I am done.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
I left on my own. I started to hate the physics degree i was working on and wanted to do something else.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
"Rather defensive. For what it's worth, I'm not out to get you. Though I could see why you'd think so since this is /. and all."
Again bait, and the tired straw man argument, you first provide 2 equally appalling choices in your first statement for me to "choose which one I am" and in your next post you begin to label me as "defensive" and paranoid.
Grow up.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I baited you (again) for saying that I'm not here for an argument (not "out to get you")? Only way you can call that me baiting you is if you think I'm lying. And yea dude (or dudette), that's being defensive.
There's really two choices available here. You understand their situation and you're judging them. Or, you don't understand their situation and your're judging them. You know, or you don't know. How exactly are these "appalling choices?"
Well, in any event, if you do wish to elaborate on your stance (besides the flippant "who in this life has not been judged") then I will read and try to be civil even if I end up not agreeing with you. But if you just want to throw more insults (ad hominem attacks since we're bringing out the fallacies) then that's cool too.
LOL
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
You are an idiot...
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Depression is a pain sensor just like the nerves in your hand. If you stick your hand in boiling water your body will report to your brain bad things are happening.
I suffer from a chemical imbalance that sets off my depression without the need of an external event. When I've attempted suicide it wasn't because "nobody understands my problems" it was because my depression was telling me I was in boiling water and it wouldn't shut off.
Depression is pain and when it is too much you want to end it by any means. Many suffering depression will try to give a reasoned solution however illogical, but this is the result of the brain trying to identify why this pain sensor went off. This is the same as the brain identifying there is pain in the hand because it is in boiling water. The problem is that the human brain is not wired to identify that the issue is with a faulty sensor.
The reason for many suicides is that the pain is intense and does not go away. Death is the only sure means of ending it.
And no, not everyone has experienced the same level depression. A faulty sensor can report a massively higher value than a properly working one.
Get well, friend.
To kill oneself when one has a healthy body is an insult to everyone with aging/ailing bodies who are still fighting to survive. It's an affront to God (if you're religious) or a cowardly waste of life force (if you're not).
Suicide *can* be an honorable exit, but you had better be facing some really serious charges (like plotting a coup against the Emperor, you failed, but if you off yourself then Caesar will leave your family alone). Suiciding just because you lost money on your internet startup is pretty damn lame.
Now if you're old and in failing health, that's a different story. It was said that men of Numenor had the ability, when their time came, to lie down peacefully and join his ancestors. Also the Jedi were known to have this power.
These folks had it better than 90% of the World, and when they made a boo boo they killed themselves.
Weak...
The problem is that you fundamentally misunderstand the human condition, and write off people who killed themselves for reasons you think are weak.
I suppose you think it's best that Alan Turing removed himself from the world, since he couldn't bear up under the persecution for being gay. If that occurred before he did his codebreaking work during World War II, we'd be living in a very different world. We'll never know what he *could* have done if he had been saved from committing suicide.
Also Anne Sexton, Vincent Van Gogh, gee, the list goes on of people who contributed much more than *you* ever will, whom you believe the world could have done without.
By the way I love this, it affirms my misanthropy, which puts me in excellent company. http://www.goodreads.com/quote...
Thanks, I really enjoyed that page. Although I've no need to hurt or kill anyone myself, I do hate humanity very much and stop just short of wanting to see the lot of us gone from the universe. I guess I've mellowed a bit over time.
The only thing that gives me some comfort is the hypothesis that we're collectively experiencing our adolescence as a modern species. Most can probably think back to a holy-terror kid they've known that turned out all right in the end with a bit of patience and guidance.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
What the world needs is more people like you, to think in different ways, and apply it to something that matters. And it's good that your professors are able to recognize talent in this area. Hopefully funding for future projects won't be an issue. All the best mate!
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
> I just graduated with a degree in chemical and biological engineering
May I ask what country you studied in? In the U.S (and now soon in Australia) it is very hard to just "go back to school", if not impossible for many people, purely from a financial point of view. For many people, in terms of study & changing careers, there are only 1 or 2 chances.
I sincerely hope that he stopped the car first. Otherwise, he could have hurt a number of other people.
Another consequence of the US's stupid attitude to guns. With them being so readily available, many people use them for suicide with a high rate of success, where if they'd had to try less effective methods they may well have had time for second thoughts.
How did Dorothy Parker put it?
Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns arenâ(TM)t lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smells awful;
You might as well live.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"