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Downtown Project Suicides Shock High Tech Community
HughPickens.com writes Nellie Bowles writes in Recode that three of the most prominent high tech entrepreneurs involved with Tony Hsieh's project to build a startup city in Downtown Las Vegas have recently committed suicide, sending the tight-knit community into a tailspin. In January 2013, Jody Sherman, the 48-year-old founder of Ecomom, one of the most prominent Vegas tech-funded startups, shot himself while in his car. His company had been going south. In January 2014, 24-year-old Ovik Banerjee, who was part of the first Venture for America group in Vegas and an integral member of the Downtown Project team, leapt from his Town Terrace apartment in downtown. In May 2014, Matt Berman, the 50-year-old founder of Bolt Barber, the flagship shop at the center of the Container Park, was found in his home in an apparent suicide by hanging. Whether or not the suicides are statistically significant, the deaths have clearly shaken the entrepreneurs.
According to Alyson Shontell, in a social media age where word of success and failure travels fast, entrepreneurs say it's harder than ever to run a company — and it's harder than ever to fail. "It was a hell of a lot of work for not a hell of a lot of return," says Dave McClure, an investor in Ecomom and the entrepreneur behind investment firm 500Startups. "And then there are days when you sit in a corner and cry. You can't really do anything else. You don't have a social life. You don't really want to interact with family and friends because there's just not much context for them. Your world revolves around your startup and it's all about trying to survive and not look like an idiot in front of employees." "In the past, failure was very contained," another entrepreneur says. "When you failed, you felt bad around your family, the people you raised money from, but it wasn't as public. Failure in an era of social media and social video and global events is a very public thing. Jody [Sherman] put himself out there this time and became very respected for what he was doing. That possibility of very public shame is something that didn't exist before." Brad Feld writes that if you are ever considering committing suicide, reach out to someone and ask for help. "It's ok to fail. It's ok to lose. It's ok to be depressed. If you are contemplating suicide, get help. If you have an entrepreneurial friend contemplating suicide, do your best to get them help."
According to Alyson Shontell, in a social media age where word of success and failure travels fast, entrepreneurs say it's harder than ever to run a company — and it's harder than ever to fail. "It was a hell of a lot of work for not a hell of a lot of return," says Dave McClure, an investor in Ecomom and the entrepreneur behind investment firm 500Startups. "And then there are days when you sit in a corner and cry. You can't really do anything else. You don't have a social life. You don't really want to interact with family and friends because there's just not much context for them. Your world revolves around your startup and it's all about trying to survive and not look like an idiot in front of employees." "In the past, failure was very contained," another entrepreneur says. "When you failed, you felt bad around your family, the people you raised money from, but it wasn't as public. Failure in an era of social media and social video and global events is a very public thing. Jody [Sherman] put himself out there this time and became very respected for what he was doing. That possibility of very public shame is something that didn't exist before." Brad Feld writes that if you are ever considering committing suicide, reach out to someone and ask for help. "It's ok to fail. It's ok to lose. It's ok to be depressed. If you are contemplating suicide, get help. If you have an entrepreneurial friend contemplating suicide, do your best to get them help."
Think of it as a stealth mode startup seeking to disrupt the living paradigm.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Ego. Desire to give life meaning through achievements. Sense of Responsibility to have received money (and mounting feeling to have 'wasted it').
You're talking about Vegas here. I seriously doubt that three guys all decided they couldn't handle the failure of a project like this.
All three methods of suicide are suspect as well.
I lived in Vegas for years and it's a really shitty town. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find some corruption behind it all that was coming to light.
Suicide? Meh...
How does "providing eco friendly and organic products to moms who desire an eco-conscious lifestyle for themselves and their children" amount to being a member of the "high tech community"? How does real estate development or running a barber shop make you a member of the high tech community? All these people are businessmen, and their troubles seem to be due to bad business decisions. No "high tech" involved, except perhaps that they were hoping that they could sell to "techies".
In this day and age... it was the first thing that popped in my mind when you get a cluster like this.
But in the end, so many people seem to opt for suicide for reasons stemming from Facebook harassment to a failed business which tells me they are weak minded, weak willed, and frankly we are better off without them.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
http://americablog.com/2014/02...
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
All of those are reasons for suicide. Oh, you mean you don't believe they are *sufficient* reasons for suicide, for you, at this time? Then don't kill yourself. Today.
Your life can change in the blink of an eye.
In this day and age... it was the first thing that popped in my mind when you get a cluster like this.
But in the end, so many people seem to opt for suicide for reasons stemming from Facebook harassment to a failed business which tells me they are weak minded, weak willed, and frankly we are better off without them.
Ah, okay, you have stated it more plainly than in your post, above.
You reveal you are without empathy for your fellow humans. Sociopath, perhaps? You might make a good CEO.
While the thought of loans from corrupt sources comes to mind as a catalyst, I believe there are other reasons. (this is Vegas, and while Corporations are now the Casino hoods instead of Cosa Nostra, hoods will still make you short-term, high interest loans featuring successful collection agents)
Business IS business.
These people were living their dream, too close to the bone.
1. Never Marry Your Business. That's like marrying your hammer or pocketknife, it is a tool. If it doesn't work , replace it. You are not there to serve it as a marriage partner. It will never fullfill this role and you will waste your life trying. If you spend your life trying and failing, you aren't interested in what you are doing. If you learn from your mistakes and others mistakes, you can't help but climb.Your business that you love is still a soul sucking vampire that will drain you and leave your husk to rot in a ditch. Avoid giving it priority above family, health and other dreams you have. Sacrifice is for chumps.
2. Build your BIG business from smaller businesses and investments. This gives you throwaways to practice your chops with and if they fail, you have learned with one of many baskets of eggs, not the whole hen house. Keep yourself the main investor in the Big One, sell off other ventures as your time and profits demand.
3. Avoid investors in the BIG one, unless you want to retire. Even then, keep a vast majority of it unless the rat race appeals to you less than that island you've been eyeing.
4. Short of transgressing ethics, take every positive break you can, incorporate with the government as little as possible and be honest in your dealings. You are only as good as your word. Even accomplishment is second to this.
5.Go with your intuition every chance you get.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I just don't understand this idea.
Why would you have only one chance? Why would your life from that point forward just suck forever? I left college before I got a degree the first time and started doing database development. The company never did well but also was not horrible and managed to survive overall. However I got bored of it and decided to go back to school.
I just graduated with a degree in chemical and biological engineering, solving a problem for a major biotech company, I am now in Germany about to starts a Master's degree and PhD and some of the experts I know expect I will start at the mid to high six figure range when I get out. That is also if I don't choose to go the startup way where I could make massively more than that.
This was after just doing database development for about 10 years and deciding to go back to school. Sure I was the older person in the class but nobody cared and nobody seems to care now and my experience has been very helpful.
This idea that you only have one chance should be taken out back and shot the way it deserves. You have as many chances as you want and you can always try again.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
they see it as having one chance to make it to billionaire.
I like your post, very positive. I'd just like to add that for those that would get close to suicide, when you do finally decide to not do it and direct your attention to "trying again" (at life, not necessarily what you think you failed at), you will be even stronger in your ability to focus on what you want to do, and will find it easier. You'll also find it easier to gain respect from others. This is from experience.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
I just don't understand this idea.
Why would you have only one chance? Why would your life from that point forward just suck forever?
A couple things here.
You are 100 percent correct, We will all fail at something. It's what we do afterwards that counts.
People have checked out early forever, who knows the guys rationale or lack of it
But here's what I think is a looming problem. Young people, at least in the US, have come through the batshit insane High self esteem/zero tolerance schooling system. They've had it drilled into their heads the not quite contradictory, but close to it concepts of "You are the most special person in the world", and "If you are caught smoking the the bathroom, it will go on your permanent record, and you'll end up living under a bridge", and They'll be expelled and their life completely ruined if you accidentally bring a spork to school.
So these poor kids get out of school not only thinking that they are the most special thing on earth (while not having earned that self esteem yet) and thinking that there is no tolerance for error. Failure is forever. So many crash and burn, and that self esteem takes a big hit.
Time will tell how the kids will react. Fortunately we have pharmaceutical companies selling maintenance "leveling" drugs, I guess. Still, that has to be a nasty hit to the ego. I failed at a few things in life, but I already knew I was a dumshit, and not to be all that surprised or dismayed.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
To end one's life is a choice, and the ultimate right of all human beings. To choose to die is not a punishment, nor should it be considered such.
There are literally millions of people that wish they could have the chance like that these folks had
Exactly. They got that chance, and they failed. You don't see why that might put them in a bad enough place to consider suicide?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
People who haven't been suicidal just don't tend to understand it very well. Those who contemplate suicide are well beyond the point where they can rationally see a future without intolerable pain whether that's physical or psychological. They typically just want to end that pain and cease to be. They don't feel like they deserve the respect you're talking about - they believe their loved ones are better off without them. And in any case they are often beyond caring about what others are going to think of them (those are the ones who won't leave a note - they figure what's the point).
Chronic stress causes overt brain damage which reduces the cerebral cortex's ability to regulate the lymbic system. When you are too stressed for too long, you literally lose emotional control. This is a fact of neurology, and has nothing to do with your mindset or strength of will.
Once this has happened, something like depression is deadly. It isn't just feeling sad; it warps your perception of reality to the point where suicide actually seems to make sense. Simple clear rational thinking stops being possible because your brain is too damaged for it, at that point. The painful muscle cramps, panic attacks, and insomnia that go along with depression only make matters worse.
Running a business, especially in this cartel-dominated economy where it is nearly impossible to get your foot in the market's door, creates precisely the sort of endless stress that will cause this.
The only good news is that the brain damage is reversible; the brain will heal itself if given enough time (measured in months) without high stress levels. But an entrepreneur scrambling to keep his (or her) company afloat will not have such an opportunity.
Running a business, successful or not, will not bring a person that feeling of inner worth. For a citation, watch "Citizen Kane". There is a line in that movie, spoken by the 'successful' Charles Foster Kane character, that goes, "Becoming a millionaire is easy, just make sure it's the only thing you care about."
It is what we do for others that defines our self worth, to get love you need to give love. You don't find true fulfillment from money. Money is fleeting, and a poor substitute for happiness. If you aren't getting fulfillment in your life from your profession, do something that does fulfill you. Volunteer in some way. As you go through your life, give to people who you can help, who need your help. You'll be so busy happily doing good deeds that you wont have time to dwell on suicidal thoughts. Dont put all your eggs in one basket expecting more money will make you happy. If your job/business isn't working for you anymore, change it, try something different. Help the people around you in your little world, and go where you're needed. If you're not happy and fulfilled, re-read the first line of my post, and never give in to suicidal thoughts. Something good might just be around the bend, and you won't get to experience it if you give up on life.
--- Leland: That's all he ever wanted out of life... was love. That's the tragedy of Charles Foster Kane. You see, he just didn't have any to give.
You're right, but that's a sure grim way of looking at the situation. After all, life is no fault of our own. Suicide is always an attempt at bettering the situation. If you take the stance, "You are weak for thinking over suicide" then if you ever are in the situation where you're thinking over suicide, in a real way, you'd be one of the ones that may actually do it, even if only for looking at yourself as the weakling that you are now calling others.
Have a heart, man.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
And failing that means life isn't worth living? That's a fucked way of thinking.
Suicidal people are often incredibly selfish; I know because I used to be one, until I survived and realized what a stupid asshole I was being.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I'm curious, why do you give a shit what others think of you if you yourself are comfortable you're a decent person? I ask with all seriousness. I used to feel that way when I was much younger and at some point sat down and examined myself and how I related to others. I came up positive and thereafter didn't really care what others thought. If you're a good person, that's it, end of story. They're rejecting a good person, the onus is on them.
It's a good question, and to an extent I do care less and less what others think of me, I guess that comes with age. But I still care how others feel, this is how we learn and evolve. If we where perfectly content with who we are and what we know, we wouldn't learn anymore. Now that would be truly tragic.
In life, you never stop having to prove yourself. Sure - you can have money and riches, as an example I can tell you that I have a fully paid house, property and all the gadgets I could ever want, this "oddly enough" buys me a lot of credit with the locals, but also a lot of envy as very few around here actually owns their own property...rather the banks and their mortgages. Still - I always feel that I need to evolve, to become more than I am.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Suicide has nothing to with doing 'something else'. It's not about the future at all.
Suicide is about Making The Pain Stop. Now. At Any Cost.
To end one's life is a choice,
Some people feel that way. Others believe that your life was provided by your parents/family/ancestors/community/etc. and that it is not yours but an ongoing debt to someone/something else.
It's certainly not unambiguously an "ultimate right".
I don't believe that most people have zero chances.
During the senior design project most teams just slacked off and put in the minimal work required to get a grade. One of the companies I knew was currently hiring and in the exact field the project was in. If that team had done a good job they would have all gotten VERY nice job offers. Only one other team got offers at all and while it was not amazing it was a good offer and the team had done a very good job on their project. They saved a company that makes cheese about $10M a year just by optimizing the drying operation. It was not hard, it just took a fair bit of careful attention to details. All the math and engineering involved was stuff we could already easily do.
What I find is that life has countless opportunities but most people don't recognize that an opportunity is possible and they put no effort into doing well. If everything you do is minimum possible to get by why should someone go out of their way to hire you over anyone else that applies for the job?
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
It hasn't much to do with rational thinking. Mental health is not something that we are conditionned to think about. Among other things, it relies heavily on a fine balance of chemicals in the brain. You have been able to think of your circumcstances rationally, and your are better for it. However, stress can easily lead to despair for various poeople, even if their circumstances are not as dire as those of others. Just as some people may be consumed by rage for no good reason.
Mental health is tricky, and I am certainly not an expert on the subject or on how to maintain it. Hopefully as a society we can move on from it being a taboo subject to people being able to routinely seeking help or just evaluation. How many tragedies could be avoided then?
I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
Rather defensive. For what it's worth, I'm not out to get you. Though I could see why you'd think so since this is /. and all.
My thought preliminary judgement of you was "I hope it's the former." I can kind of get people who look down on others for not doing emotionally as well as them in similar situations (soldiers who look down on other soldiers who have PTSD for exmaple). But if you're just judging someone without knowing their situation, or at least their emotioinal state? Yea, that's being a smug dick. Like a civilian calling a soldier with PTSD weak I suppose.
I'll give you some advice as well. If you fail in a business venture of this magnitude, people WILL judge you as a failure no matter how much they care about you. This is especially true if you stressed your finances and your relationship for the sake of the business. Now those that do care will forgive and move on quickly, but you still hurt them. And finding a better class of people won't take away the sting that they're not the ones that made a mistake, you did.
Now, I imagine you'll point out that no matter how bad one feels, they shouldn't kill themselves (that's weak as you say). All I can say to that is, unless you truly appreciate how depression and stress can erode the rational mind, then judge if you must. But at the same time, be aware that you're judging from ignorance.
The suicide's mantra - "Nobody understands my problems." Bullshit. Almost everyone has had dire thoughts and stresses. It's no one's fault suicides can't quit focusing on any solution other than offing themselves.
People don't commit suicide when they're happy. They do it when they're depressed. Those who have "made the decision" will appear happy to outsiders because they have "found their solution." That's a very dangerous spot to be in. They look like they're coming out of the dumps instead of heading for the dumpster.
The additional problem is, once you've been through a major depression, you're more liable to go through another one. Depression, like happiness, is a chemical state of the brain. Look around you. People are self-medicating with booze, drugs, etc. There's plenty of schizophrenics who smoke because of the effect nicotine has on their brains.
It doesn't help that there's a huge stigma surrounding depression - "Just pull yourself out of it" - that prevents people from getting the very help that they need.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
depression is a terrible fate from which to suffer. only the strong-willed survive, as the weak kill themselves after depression has feasted upon their souls.
I'm not sure that's accurate. I went through a really brutal depression where I had essentially no will-power yet I wasn't suicidal for a moment. Maybe that would have changed if the depression was worse but I suspect there was some other factor at work. It's probably different for different people but I think one of the big problems is a complete loss of hope and a perception of suicide as the answer and a way to escape the pain. In this case strong will can be a problem, when you're depressed you have no hope for the future, the only thing that lies ahead is more depression. It's a lie, things can change and get much better, and you know that's the case, but you don't really believe it. In this scenario if someone truly see suicide as an answer then a strong will might cause them to follow through on the extreme solution rather than doing the little things that seem pointless but might help in the long run.
I think the key to fighting depression and suicidal tendencies is to find something else that brings purpose and hope to their lives. If entrepreneurs are at greater risk I suspect it's due to two reasons. First their focus on business means less time is spent finding other reasons for purpose. And second, one of the reasons to become an entrepreneur is to find meaning and purpose because you can't find it elsewhere. Case in point, I'm in the process of trying to get an Internet startup going right now. One of the reasons is I have a great idea and I think I can pull it off, but the other reason is I can't find a lot of meaning and purpose in my life right now, but I think this startup will have a lot of meaning and purpose and I want to share in that purpose.
I stole this Sig
Depression is a pain sensor just like the nerves in your hand. If you stick your hand in boiling water your body will report to your brain bad things are happening.
I suffer from a chemical imbalance that sets off my depression without the need of an external event. When I've attempted suicide it wasn't because "nobody understands my problems" it was because my depression was telling me I was in boiling water and it wouldn't shut off.
Depression is pain and when it is too much you want to end it by any means. Many suffering depression will try to give a reasoned solution however illogical, but this is the result of the brain trying to identify why this pain sensor went off. This is the same as the brain identifying there is pain in the hand because it is in boiling water. The problem is that the human brain is not wired to identify that the issue is with a faulty sensor.
The reason for many suicides is that the pain is intense and does not go away. Death is the only sure means of ending it.
And no, not everyone has experienced the same level depression. A faulty sensor can report a massively higher value than a properly working one.
These folks had it better than 90% of the World, and when they made a boo boo they killed themselves.
Weak...
The problem is that you fundamentally misunderstand the human condition, and write off people who killed themselves for reasons you think are weak.
I suppose you think it's best that Alan Turing removed himself from the world, since he couldn't bear up under the persecution for being gay. If that occurred before he did his codebreaking work during World War II, we'd be living in a very different world. We'll never know what he *could* have done if he had been saved from committing suicide.
Also Anne Sexton, Vincent Van Gogh, gee, the list goes on of people who contributed much more than *you* ever will, whom you believe the world could have done without.