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AIDS Origin Traced To 1920s Kinshasa
An anonymous reader writes: A new study published in Science (abstract) has traced the origin of HIV/AIDS back to Kinshasa in the 1920s. The authors say Kinshasa, now in the Democratic Republic of Congo, was then undergoing explosive population growth while supporting an abundant sex trade. These factors, combined with the use of unsterilized needles at health clinics and the railways moving a million people in and out of the city each year, conspired to start the pandemic. "HIV is a mutated version of a chimpanzee virus, known as simian immunodeficiency virus, which probably made the species-jump through contact with infected blood while handling bush meat. The virus made the jump on multiple occasions. One event led to HIV-1 subgroup O which affects tens of thousands in Cameroon. Yet only one cross-species jump, HIV-1 subgroup M, went on to infect millions of people across every country in the world."
i was across the river back in 1997. Ironically one of the soldiers i was with said that if he was going to get AIDS, he wanted to get it right there at the source
I'm glad that all the deniers have moved on to climate change, and the aids denial has pretty much died down.
Okay, was there no monkey meat business before 1920s? Why did it make the jump only at that time? How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
HIV made a cross-species jump in the 1920s, and went on to kill millions.
But Ebola couldn't possibly mutate enough to survive slightly longer when exposed to air.
I feel much safer now.
If I wanted to hear deluded rantings I'd go to the local nuthouse.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
but unless people were having sex with chimps,
... and ...
Truth is nearly always stranger than fiction.
Oh my ...
The "vaccine cultured in simian livers" has been pretty much the accepted story for a couple of decades. No conspiracy theories necessary - just a desire to culture as much vaccine as possible in the shortest time possible without adequate funds to take (in retrospect) every reasonable precaution in an under-developed country.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Consumptions of infected simian meat has been the explanation for a very long time. Why does everyone seem surprised?
Did they eat chimps for food?
Or worse.... wait that's unthinkable!
Okay, was there no monkey meat business before 1920s? Why did it make the jump only at that time?
Globalization. The ease that the infected could move around is what spread the disease. The jumps likely happened before as well, but died out in the infected humans.
How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
What change? It's a simian virus. We are simians. You are requiring change when none is necessary. And it changed the same as the pig and bird flus.
Learn to love Alaska
Ever hear of Occam's Razor? The simplest explanation is a natural cross species viral jump, and that is pretty much what probably happened.
"...but unless people were having sex with chimps..."
Because the only way to transmit HIV is through sex? As the article itself notes (I know, in our fast-paced age, you cannot be expected to read an entire article), transmission likely happened through blood while eating the meat. Much more plausible.
I love my sig.
If I wanted to hear deluded rantings I'd go to the local nuthouse.
Well, you ARE on Slashdot...
#DeleteChrome
Consumptions of infected simian meat has been the explanation for a very long time. Why does everyone seem surprised?
Because, at the same time, we've been told HIV can't spread orally.
#DeleteChrome
Like everyone else on slashdot, I didn't read the entire original paper, so I'm speculating, but...
The virus probably did make the jump multiple times before, but it didn't spread because the people involved died quickly (not necessarily due to HIV, but due to the brutal nature of life in those places and times), and never made it into the metropolis that was Kinshasa (Leopoldville). Read 'King Leopold's Ghost' by Adam Hochschild to get an idea of how rough and brutal life was for the Africans in early 20'th Century Zaire/Belgian_Congo.
As for the virus changing from a chimp version to a human version, that probably didn't take much doing. After all, we share perhaps 98 or 99% of the same genes. Initially I'll bet that the virus didn't reproduce very well in humans, but survival of the fittest (of the virus) would allow the strains better suited to survive and reproduce to become the more common strains that we see today.
There's a lot of misinformation that's been passed around regarding HIV. I think the origins of HIV and AIDS as a homosexual disease (remember Gay-related immune deficiency) heightened the "sex with chimps" origin stories. People wanted to believe that some homosexuals also had sex with animals and was just one more reason to hate them.
I remember an elementary school teacher of mine in the 90's telling us that sex with chimps was the most likely reason HIV jumped species. We all giggled, but I'm sure there are many from that classroom that still believe it today.
He doesn't even have to read the article, it's right in the summary ("handling infected bush meat").
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
bush-meat.... You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
It's important to note tha Chimpanzees cannot swim and do not cross rivers.
As a species, we've been eating meat for a long, long time, and our digestive and immune systems have proven well-adapted to the preventing of cross-species viral contamination through that means.
While I was certainly being flippant with my "sex with chimps" comment, the facts surrounding virology and the development of the polio vaccine provide an altogether more probable, (and indeed, measured) means of disease transmission.
I strongly recommend people overcome their knee-jerk reactions and suspend judgment before exploring the linked information. People have nothing to lose and a whole lot to gain; it's not like I'm selling anything here. Just pointing at some interesting stuff.
But do as you will.
because monkey fucking makes for a much better story.
obviously.
I don't think " HIV can't spread orally" necessarily applies to actually consuming infected meat. Then again, it's not the consumption of the meat that's being blamed - it's direct exposure to infected blood while handling fresh chimp carcases in order to prepare the meat.
Enough. We know most Slashdot commenters who think they’re super smart saw Contact back in the theaters. Enough Occam’s Razor. You’re probably a primate that caused the jump.
Maybe our digestive ssytem has proven well adapted to that, but there are a lot of knives and cuts involved in the preparation of any meat.
Blood contamination while butchering is a very plausible transmission mechanism. Especially in areas where there are no enforced health guidelines, much less proper sanitization.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Unlike what you may believe the amount of people who have sex with animals is very few and the amount of people that have sex with wild animals approaches zero.
On the other hand a huge amount of people do hunt and handle the corpses of misc. wild animals (called "bush meat" in the story)... And even people in industrial nations (with controlled breeding programs) still die of meat-carried diseases that proper handling and cooking would simply eliminate.
Just ask yourself: what is most likely?
How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
The same way avian and swine viruses jump to humans: mutation.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Consumptions of infected simian meat has been the explanation for a very long time. Why does everyone seem surprised?
Because, at the same time, we've been told HIV can't spread orally.
Well since we don't routinely butcher and eat people, I imagine they felt they could leave that method out of the pamphlet. However blood-blood contact is also a known, disclosed method of transmission. It's just a lot less common in humans than sexual contact.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
And they have ships that travel thousands of miles?
Learn to love Alaska
For this to be true, for millions of years, people infected with the chimp virus did not have sex with females and did not live in a village type community where they could spread the disease. Instead, they lived a harsh, secluded life, devoid of human contact before dying. Is that true?
Okay, was there no monkey meat business before 1920s? Why did it make the jump only at that time?
Well, we don't know for sure that it made the jump only at that time, do we? It's just that the recent epidemics of one particular branch of retroviruses has been traced to this. But people started traveling more only recently, giving it more chance to spread. Perhaps there are bones somewhere in the jungle of someone who died from a related virus two centuries ago, only we haven't found them yet.
Ezekiel 23:20
As a species, we've been eating meat for a long, long time, and our digestive and immune systems have proven well-adapted to the preventing of cross-species viral contamination through that means.
What was the dental hygiene like in Kinshasa in the 1920s? Might not there have been some people with gingivitis (bleeding gums) who ate some bushmeat that was a bit rare/bloody?
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
Because, at the same time, we've been told HIV can't spread orally.
If you have cuts, scratches, or open sores in your mouth, it certainly can.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...
oRLY?
There is a risk that HIV can spread orally to someone with gingivitis (bleeding gums), and I wonder if the jump from bush meat to humans in 1920s might have happened when someone with gingivitis ate some bloody bush meat.
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
the amount of people that have sex with wild animals approaches zero.
You are obviously too new to this internet thing, otherwise you would be at least aware of the 90's sensation that was dolphinsex.org...
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Butcher has an open wound, during the course of his work simian blood makes contact with said wound, ==>> Transmission complete,
Not a single Well documented case.... big difference. I'm sure humans have been getting and dying from AIDS as long as they've been handling simian meat over there, but it would always die off with only a few humans infected. It took a busy sex trade and globalization to really get things going and create what we now know as AIDS.
Monkeys for nothing, but the chimps are for free.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
A butcher contaminating himself with animal blood as a means of accepting a viable mutation is a much less likely lottery 'win'.
But people do win the lottery. And it's worth noting here that HIV crossed over numerous times some well before the 60s. It's not like it only happened once.
How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
Long story short, it involves mutations in viral proteins that are responsible for counter-acting anti-viral proteins (termed restriction factors) in human cells, that differ slightly from the chimpanzee versions due to an ongoing genetic arms race between the host proteins that block viral infections, and the viral factors that counter-act them to retain virus infectivity. There are also changes in the viral envelope proteins to help evade adaptive immune responses (recognition by immune cells and antibodies)
In fact I know a guy who works as a butcher. He got badly sick at one point from exposure to blood from a butchered animal. Not sure if it happened because he had an open wound. It does seem to be an occupational hazard for butchers.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Okay, was there no monkey meat business before 1920s? Why did it make the jump only at that time? How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
It made the jump because of the large local population, fed by modern transportation systems. Previously it hadn't been possible to support a million people in such a small area.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Equally plausible explanation:
Butcher creates an open wound while carving the raw bushmeat, either for self consumption or for sale to others, ==> transmission complete. Think of the last time you had an accident cut yourself cutting food and there you are.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
Sorry, kid. Contact wasn't published (I read the book, didn't see the movie) until I was graduating High School. I knew what Occam's Razor was long before that.
AFAIK the virus can jump species anytime, but a newly jumped version is so badly adapted to its new host that human immune system suppresses it in a few weeks. However, if the virus just happens to jump to a new host in that time, the battle starts from scratch there. Immune response takes time, so if there's a steady stream of new victims the virus can stay one step ahead - and all the time it's evolving and adapting, until you get to modern-day AIDS.
Enter King Leopold II of Belgium, under who's authority Congo Free State was an ideal hellhole for a new and exciting disease to get all the hosts it could possibly need to mature into a pandemic. So this is yet another modern-day problem that can be laid at the feet of colonialism.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
1920 was not that long ago - less than 100 years. Are there any eye witnesses who can report encountering someone who died of a mysterious wasting disease?
observance of Occams razor is traditional on slashdot. It'like you have this car that you love and every time you see it you run your hand up it from end to front.
---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
Oh my ... I hadn't even considered the double entendre!
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Cannot may not be the right word, but your article supports the idea that they do not make a habit of swimming, which was the fundamental point.
Great apes are not known for their swimming ability, and there have been cases of them drowning in zoos that use water moats to confine them.
Both the apes studied had been raised and cared for by humans in the U.S.
Consumptions of infected simian meat has been the explanation for a very long time. Why does everyone seem surprised?
Because, at the same time, we've been told HIV can't spread orally.
Uhm, I think you've gotten the concept of Oral Sex wrong, if you think it is largely similar to daily consumption of meat...
Many years ago, relatively few people in Africa.
Few domesticated animals. Bushmeat normal part of diet.
Colonisation/"civilisation" - less deaths from disease/tribal wars.
More domestivated animals - more food - more Africans
Bushmeat relegated to occasional traditional treat.
Population rises, colonialists leave.
Medicine stays, governments collapse, foreign aid - more Africans
Not enough meat from domesticated animals - bushmeat consumption rises again
Now routine - first large wildlife declines, then small.
Eventually all the bushmeat is gone - anything larger than a mouse
World gets bored with endless foreign aid to despots
Most indigenous wildlife extinct - jungle very quiet.
Africans start eating each other.
Oh wait....
::couhcoughOutbreakcoughcough::
So sorry, a bit Dustin Hoffman in here, setting my throat off.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
yeah, it's so rare they make jokes out of it in shows like South Park where they pick the most niche activities like ziplining, roadtripping, declaring war on other countries and fucking chickens and rip them a new one. ::rolleyes::.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
it's still called the gay flu, I've got a Coronet educational video somewhere that discusses sexual relationships and why sticking your willy in another man's bum is so dangerous - 'cos the first time it happens you'll catch teh plague!!1one
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
last time I accidentally cut myself I wasn't handling food, I was cutting steel framing with a hacksaw and caught a bit of burr. It's still in my arm two weeks later.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
I first heard of it in connection with the Occam programming language
That proves little to nothing. The reason why chimps (and gorillas) are thought to be unable to swim is their buoyancy: a young captive orangutan in a swimming pool is really an extreme case. Factors like water temperature, density and viscosity, not to mention size, depth and shape of the pool (which usually reduce turbulence and waves) compared to a real life river, alongside the fact that captive animals have typically a higher body fat percentage than wild animals (that is they're much less dense) can determine the success or failure of such a test. They should have taken a dozen chimps, thrown them in a muddy river and then see how may survived.
If you are not deciding how to act in a geopolitical event or deciding major financial positions to take, you're probably only using Occam's Razor to shut down and censor other ideas.
In the case of the nutjob that linked AIDS, the polio vaccine, and Occam's Razor-- He should be shut down and censored, but just laugh at him and call him a twit.
I've been jealous and I've been angry, but I've never killed anyone. Just because you have a feeling doesn't mean you have to do whatever comes into your head. I've thought "I'd like to fuck her" and "I'd like to punch him in the mouth", and chose to do neither. Reptiles may not have the ability to make such decisions, but mammals do.
Whenever someone says something really flat and sorta elliptical like "orally," we gotta get clear about this too -- HIV cannot be spread by kissing. It can be spread by oral sex however, and can be spread by mouth-to-mouth contact when other factors are in play.
HIV exposure from dental work is actually a really common risk factor. In fact, the very first known case of iatrogenic HIV infection was from a dental office.
It's generally accepted you can't get it from kissing, but kissing, eating food, eating raw food, eating bodily fluids, oral contact in the presence of bodily fluids, and oral contact associated with cuts or open sores -- for example, florid herpes -- are all really different vectors.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
The theory is that the intensive economic development of Africa, beginning at the start of the 20th century, created the only environment in which the nonvirulent SIV could make several animal-to-human transmissions, sustain itself and mutate in the human population, and then be communicated far enough to produce and epidemic. SIV didn't become HIV in the first jump, people had been getting exposed to SIV since antiquity; what was needed was for multiple people to get SIV, even non-virulent, poorly-transmissible SIV, and to very quickly pass it to a core group of dozens or hundreds of individuals, in which the virus would have a large enough group in which to mutate.
Prostitution and bushmeat existed in Africa prior to 1900, but cities did not, and dense cities, motorized transportation, and large populations of transient workers passing from city to countryside and back seems to be the critical factor.
[As to the implication of the question, I can only say that, like most "bad" things, conservatives tend to assume that there were no gay people prior to the 1960s. The conservative narrative about all social ills goes: "This thing didn't exist when I was a child, some weirdoes invented it around the time I came of age, and now we must defeat it in order to restore our culture to where it was when I was a child."
If some controversial social issue became patent in 1983, like say the "GRID"/AIDS crisis, basically every social conservative who was older than 18 in 1983 will believe to their dying day that gay people didn't exist prior to when they were children (1970). Now that homosexuality and AIDS is a completely "out" issue, social conservatives who have turned 18 in the last 5-10 years couldn't care less about gays. Nowadays all these younger conservatives talk about is the leviathan state and taxes, and predictably, they tell the story that government has become radical, authoritarian and profligate in some way that's categorically different from the previous 100 years, and we must fight to bring the state back to some Schlaraffian fairy-land that existed in the 90s (and conveniently prior to 9/11).]
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
"I'm in insurance."
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Dr Mary's Monkey, did they?
I question the validity of your assertion our digestive and immune systems are well adapted to viral cross-species transmission. That may be somewhat correct when it comes to bacterial infections but not necessarily viral infections. For example, if it were not for yearly vaccinations against the flu, we'd have yearly widespread flu epidemics. That flu mutates every year from pigs in Asia, China in particular. That's merely one example. Ebola is another. The more a micro-organism is exposed to various environments (immune/defense) systems, the greater the evolutionary pressure for it to mutate. Resulting in more virulent and more cross species adaptation. Epidemiologists know that. But they are also aware they need to quell mass panic. They become politicians. They will essentially say just about anything to maintain civil law and order. But from a scientific viewpoint, they also realize (in fact the spokesman for the CDC in the past two days acknowledged) that mutations are practically impossible to guard against. It is only after a new breed of infection has emerged can they take any action (by identifying the new strain via DNA sequencing). In other words, civilization is ALWAYS playing catchup to bacterial and viral mutations. As a result, epidemics can emerge and propagate well before they are discovered. Just like the guy in Texas (traveler from Liberia) who went to the hospital and was sent home only to come back a week later only sicker. Why? Medical staff didn't take his illness seriously, the initial symptoms mimicked cold or flu, and it was not considered a threat in the U.S. In the interim a significant number of people were exposed. Granted, the U.S. feels they have the resources to address such things. That's assuming though the infection has a relatively long incubation period (as with Ebola). But that is just luck. A virus could infect and make carriers infective within hours with no significant physical symptoms. In which case an epidemic could spread well before being discovered.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
Paranoia and conspiracy accusations are EXACTLY what I see present in "critics of climate change hyperbole".
Bieber is Canadian.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork