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NASA Finds a Delaware-Sized Methane "Hot Spot" In the Southwest

merbs writes According to new satellite research from scientists at NASA and the University of Michigan this "hot spot" is "responsible for producing the largest concentration of the greenhouse gas methane seen over the United States—more than triple the standard ground-based estimate." It covers 2,500 square miles, about the size of Delaware. It is so big that scientists initially thought it was a mistake in their instruments. "We didn't focus on it because we weren't sure if it was a true signal or an instrument error," NASA's Christian Frankenberg said in a statement.

213 comments

  1. Proper link by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
    1. Re:Proper link by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Sorry man, it's my diet.
      Thai food, burritos, sriracha sauce and cabbage.
      It like-ta tore my asshole off when it came out.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    2. Re:Proper link by Xyrus · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's actually a generating station. The PNM San Juan Generating Station is a very large plant located in Waterflow, NM. In GE, you can see all the massive piles of coal all around the area, along with all the smoke stacks and some rather questionable looking ponds of water.

      --
      ~X~
    3. Re:Proper link by Allasard · · Score: 4, Informative
      Yeah, I agree. That's your problem there: google map location

      Someone needs to go tell that plant to go clean up their act. At the very least, it's wasting methane.

    4. Re:Proper link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a refinery. Signs in the area refer to the "La Plata Mine" operated by the San Juan Coal Company. However, those green and orange tanks are quite large and might be used for gas storage. They don't look like anything I would associate with a coal mine.

    5. Re:Proper link by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1, Troll

      Link to a proper article about it. http://news.agu.org/press-rele...

      Are either of those articles "proper"? Everything they say about methane presents it in a way that shows the largest possible, most scare-mongering numbers.

      They fail to mention that "3 times" the normal atmospheric concentration is still only 0.0000054.

    6. Re:Proper link by itzly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They fail to mention that "3 times" the normal atmospheric concentration is still only 0.0000054.

      At what concentration would you start to worry ?

    7. Re:Proper link by war4peace · · Score: 2

      110% because my manager says that's what we have to give for the company.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    8. Re:Proper link by itzly · · Score: 1

      Heh, I knew I wouldn't get a serious answer.

    9. Re:Proper link by DesertJazz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I grew up in Farmington, near where the station is. Plain and simple the generating station and two other power plants are on Reservation land. For the longest time the tribes chose to ignore improvements to air quality standards. I presume much of the chronic asthma I and others suffered in the area is related to the pollution. On the flip side most of these stacks are being shut down right now and it's killing the local economy. The area has one of the largest available coal deposits that it has been relying on for a long time. It would be nice if there was some sort compromise possible between the industry and pollution... Of course if it was managed more properly it might not be so bad. The amount of corruption on the reservation is amazing...

    10. Re:Proper link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      110% because my manager says that's what we have to give for the company.

      Woo Hoo! I got 50 hours in this week, that over %110 of 40. I'm going home early today!

    11. Re:Proper link by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      110% = 25% (mon-thurs) + 10% (fri).

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    12. Re:Proper link by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Sure, you can get a serious answer. But I notice you did not answer my question.

      My answer to you is this: probably when it is somewhat higher than 54 ppm, in just a tiny area, in a single part of the world. It's probably a lot higher than that in your living room when someone lets out a good fart.

    13. Re:Proper link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have driven through this area many times. The old highway 666 runs through it (the devil's highway), now renamed highway 491. This is mostly Indian reservation land and good for absolutely nothing. There is absolutely nothing on this road until you get to an Indian casino/truck stop just south of Cortez, CO. Maybe seeing the ShipRock in the distance is a little interesting, but you have to stretch your imagination to see a ship.

  2. yes, let's "zoom out" by silfen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The scientists say the finding is reason enough to zoom out from fracking, and take stock of the operations of the entire established fossil fuel industry.

    Fracking has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions. Lumping the "entire established fossil fuel industry" together as if coal, oil, and gas were all the same is just idiotic.

    1. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shale gas still produces CO2 when it burns ...

    2. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Yes, but a lot (!) less than coal and oil. It has done more for US greenhouse gas emission reductions than any of the crony capitalist schemes Obama or environmentalists have cooked up.

    3. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Required+Snark · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Any references? And by references I mean something that was not funded my the energy industry. Preferably in a peer reviewed journal that is not funded by the energy industry. You know, some organization that is actually credible, rather then being a bunch of paid shills.

      Lacking that, I'm just going to assume that your are making stuff up. The "logic" of "Fracking has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions" seems to be lacking. How could the conclusion follow from the premise? How about "An increase in the consumption of Nutella has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions"? Makes about as much sense.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    4. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Methane is a greenhouse gas, a much more potent one than carbon dioxide. If reduced carbon dioxide from burning methane "instead of" coal is accompanied by more methane leaks, then it isn't clear whether fracking is a net positive with regard to climate change. And methane isn't replacing coal and oil. The primary effect of fracking is the lower price of fossil fuels. Higher availability and lower price always causes increased consumption.

    5. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by amias · · Score: 1

      how about if you include all the fuel you have to use for pumping and for taking the waste off to somewhere safe to store it , wait , you are storing is somewhere safe and not just dumping it in rivers aren't you ?

      --
      [site]
    6. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by thaylin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Easy to say when republicans block those measures using crony democracy at every turn. If they dont get to take effect any reduction is better than it.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    7. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by geogob · · Score: 1

      Fracking has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions.

      Says who? The Fracking industry lobbing bureau? Or, if you prefer, [citation needed].

    8. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by khallow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And by references I mean something that was not funded my the energy industry.

      Which energy industry, the fossil fuel one or the green one?

    9. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by geogob · · Score: 1

      (oups. I replied within the quote... sorry. Here now correcly)

      Says who? The Fracking industry lobbing bureau? Or, if you prefer, [citation needed].

    10. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Actually, that is marketing voodoo... but they are sort of onto something. Think of how much fuel was burnt moving all that gas around the world. Now we get it here...

    11. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by knightghost · · Score: 4, Informative

      Less CO2 (half compared to coal for electrical generation) but much, much more methane, which is a much worse (if shorter 20 year) greenhouse gas.

    12. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course, the "hot spot" mentioned in the article is NOT the result of fracking, since according to the article it pre-dates fracking. The article tells us that the methane in this "hot spot" is the result of old, leaky fossil fuel infrastructure (I am going to guess that this is primarily old pipelines and storage tanks, that have developed leaks over time, or were not particularly well-sealed when first built at a time when it was not worth the extra effort and cost to prevent such leakage).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    13. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by plopez · · Score: 4, Informative

      but requires huge amounts of water. As does tar sands.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    14. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by thaylin · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should learn the system. I automatically get a +2 for a karma modifier, I as not up modded by anyone. And what I stated was correct in any sense.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    15. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      I'd suggest you have a bit too much confidence in peer review.
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm...

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    16. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Which energy industry, the fossil fuel one or the green one?

      Uh neither? What did you think RS was actually asking for a biased report? How callow of you.
      But it sure played well with the peanut gallery! So enjoy the endorphin rush of the approval of your intellectual peers.

    17. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Easy to say when republicans block those measures using crony democracy at every turn.

      What the hell is "crony democracy"? Dirty looks? Because that's pretty much all Republicans can do to the administration these days.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    18. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is actually the biggest problem for fracking.

    19. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by MiniMike · · Score: 2

      How about "An increase in the consumption of Nutella has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions"? Makes about as much sense.

      If you consider the low fiber content of Nutella (0.5 g per serving), that statement might actually make more sense.

    20. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by thaylin · · Score: 2

      I would say that it is obstructionism, redistricting in ways that do nothing but try and ensure their own reelections, aka gerrymandering, and the such.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    21. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When most of the commentators are in Jr. High or Jr. College, that's what you get. No one with real jobs, obligations, or responsibilities.

    22. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

      I would say that it is obstructionism, redistricting in ways that do nothing but try and ensure their own reelections, aka gerrymandering, and the such.

      Both parties have that in their toolbox. Check this out: Bobby Scott's gerrymandered 3rd District.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    23. Re: yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brilliant.

    24. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about "it pre-dates fracking"? Fracking has been in use well over 50 years, and if you believe Wikipedia, started commercially in 1949. PNM built San Juan Generating Station in 1972. Stop talking about things you know nothing about.

    25. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by timeOday · · Score: 1

      The "logic" of "Fracking has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions" seems to be lacking.

      The logic is that plummeting natural gas prices have undercut the demand for coal, which was even worse. This resulted in an overall reduction in US CO2 emissions.

    26. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is your reading comprehension really that bad?

    27. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by WrongMonkey · · Score: 1
      Huge amounts of water, compared to what? Total US fracking water use is 70 to 140 billion gallons per year.

      http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind...

      California almond farms use 1.1 TRILLION gallons of water per year.

      http://www.slate.com/articles/...

    28. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fracking has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions.

      Greenhouse gas is only one form of pollution. Fracking has greatly increased the overall damage that society is doing to the planet.

      Lumping the "entire established fossil fuel industry" together as if coal, oil, and gas were all the same is just idiotic.

      This is like arguing over who was the most evil mass murderer.

    29. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by pla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but requires huge amounts of water.

      "Huge amounts of water" doesn't mean huge amounts of potable water. Our planet has no shortage of water (you could more accurately say we have a shortage of land). We just can't directly consume most of it without energy-intensive processing first.

      Fracking doesn't require clean water. It can use salt water, grey water, swamp water, runoff water, pretty much anything. Now, that said, in the places currently enjoying a fracking boom (no pun intended), the easiest water to get comes from nice clean freshwater aquifers. But it doesn't need to.

      I find it simply mind-boggling that so many environmentally conscious people (and I say that as someone who considers himself one) hate the most environmentally friendly sources of energy we have: Nuclear, wind, solar, water, and to a lesser degree, natural gas. Yes, each has its own problems, some of which we can solve through regulation, some through further tech advancement, some through telling millionaire weenies on Cape Cod to go fuck themselves. But as long as the cheapest (by a good margin) alternative consists of the dirtiest fuel ever discovered by mankind (coal)... Maybe we should take just a teensy step back and pick our battles a bit better, hmm?

    30. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Immerman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, not really.

      Methane (natural gas) does cut CO2 emissions by about half compared to coal. However methane is an incredibly potent greenhouse gas in it's own right, far, far more potent than CO2, even if it doesn't remain in the atmosphere for nearly as long. The only way a switch to methane reduces the greenhouse effect is if you can keep leakage at less than ~14%, otherwise it makes things even worse. And currently the leakage rates in the US are estimated at about 20%. And that's even before we get to the part where oil-pumping operations are allowed to simply vent or burn off the natural gas they're not interested in extracting. Have you seen nighttime pictures of the North-western US? Whole states that used to be dark are now glowing brightly from all the methane plume fires - laws aside that's just criminal.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    31. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Solandri · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well of course it produces much more methane gas. Natural gas is methane. The trick is to capture it so you can burn it for energy (converting it to CO2 and water), and not let it leak out.

      In the past energy prices were low enough that it wasn't worth capturing the methane (which being a gas tends to take up a lot of space unless you compress it to about a thousand atmospheres of pressure). Now we're busy not just capturing it but finding new sources of it. Once the plant owners find out from this NASA report just how much methane they're losing from leaky pipes, I'm sure they'll eagerly patch up the leaks so they'll have more methane to sell.

    32. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by silfen · · Score: 1

      Lacking that, I'm just going to assume that your are making stuff up. The "logic" of "Fracking has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions" seems to be lacking. How could the conclusion follow from the premise?

      For the same amount of energy, natural gas results in about half the CO2 emissions compared to coal (the two major fossil fuel sources for electricity in the US).

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

      Shale gas production has increased greatly in the US and led to an overall strong increase in the use of gas for energy production, substituting more carbon-intensive sources:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

      http://www.eia.gov/todayinener...

    33. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by silfen · · Score: 1

      No, it's simple chemistry: we're substituting gas for coal, and gas releases much less carbon for the same energy yield.

    34. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by itzly · · Score: 1

      Most likely, that's only a temporary effect. After the gas has been used up, people will go back to burning whatever is left of the coal.

    35. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      I can't but shake my head at all the environmentally concerned people opposing fracking. More specifically, the ones vehemently insisting we be more considerate of the living conditions we are creating for people down the road. It strikes me as a very bad form of tunnel vision.

      Fracking the oil from the American midwest makes America energy independent. Let me repeat that another way. Fracking the midwest oil means America doesn't need Middle Eastern oil.

      IMHO, that ends the discussion and debate. I'm not dismissing concerns over how 'dirty' recovery of midwest oil is, I'm just of the opinion that the alternative Middle Eastern oil is even dirtier on account of all the blood spilled over it.

    36. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Fracking has also been responsible for a very large number of methane leaks. So many that it's reasonable to believe that there has actually been an increase in total greenhouse gas emissions, just a decline in measured ones. Which isn't the same thing.

      OTOH, because the leaks haven't been accurately measured (Could they be?), you can't really say that there hasn't been a decline in greenhouse emissions. And both the companies and the politicians want to claim credit for a reduction. So there's little incentive to even try to get a good measurement, as long as you can just pretend that it doesn't matter.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    37. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how we import most of our oil from Canada. Not saying it's made cleanly, just that the Middle East bit of your argument falls short.

      References:
      http://www.energytrendsinsider.com/2014/06/23/where-the-us-got-its-oil-from-in-2013/
      http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
      http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

    38. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      For the 1000th time. Repeat after me: Oil is a fungible asset. Oil if a fungible asset...

      It doesn't really matter who's oil we are currently burning. Producing more ourselves will lower the price. World oil and gas exporters are all (or almost all) scumbags who should be defunded ASAP.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    39. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Isaac-1 · · Score: 1

      So what, just because there is a water shortage in California does not mean there is one everywhere, my local weather forecast calls for nearly 2 inches of rain in the next 4 days alone.

    40. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The environazis consider humans being killed to be a positive thing. Especially if the people dying are white males. Especially double plus good if the white males are from flyover states.

      Hope that helps.

    41. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which one, the one that makes trillions of dollars and buys off the political systems of entire regions, or the one that comparatively fits in your momma's basement?

      Idiot wingers and their idiotic comparisons.

    42. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by silfen · · Score: 1

      Fracking has also been responsible for a very large number of methane leaks. So many that it's reasonable to believe that there has actually been an increase in total greenhouse gas emissions, just a decline in measured ones. Which isn't the same thing.

      Fracking operations are subject to environmental regulations and monitoring, and it is not reasonable to believe without strong evidence that there "has actually been an increase in total greenhouse gas emissions". In fact, it is completely unreasonable to believe that.

    43. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I did not say "it pre-dates fracking". I said that the article said that it pre-dates fracking....to be exact, the article quotes the researchers behind this discovery of saying that it pre-dates fracking. So perhaps you should accuse them of talking about things which they know nothing about rather than myself, who merely relayed (and made clear that I was doing so) what they said.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    44. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by HiThere · · Score: 1

      The measurements have shown that there are very significant, but unquantified, methane leaks. And the people doing the measurements were being paid by those who benefit from minimizing the significance of the leaks. One can't know what this means, but not being suspicious strikes me as naive.

      OTOH, it's also unreasonable to believe that they are extremely dangerous. There no real evidence of that either. (Perhaps those earthquakes would have happened anyway, and anyway they were minor.) But there is significan evidence that the sides of the drilling are not being properly maintained against gas leaks. Also there is significant leakage around the drilling site. (This has always happened at oil wells, but when you're drilling for oil, the evidence is pretty clear, and the stuff can be collected and refined...though that's not a very profitable activity, so it won't happen without oversight.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    45. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by silfen · · Score: 1

      The measurements have shown that there are very significant, but unquantified, methane leaks.

      The uncertainty is whether it's 1.8% or a few percent more. That has some short term warming effects, but it is insignificant relative to the large reduction in greenhouse gas emissions; arguing that shale gas has no net effect or might even have a negative effect on greenhouse gases simply doesn't make sense. Also note that we're talking about switching from coal production, which itself leaks methane.

      Note that companies have a strong financial interest not to leak methane: every 1% they leak is profit they are throwing away; you don't think big evil greedy capitalist corporations are going to throw away money like that?

    46. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      OTOH, because the leaks haven't been accurately measured (Could they be?),

      Which part of the original article (first post in the thread) did you not read? Was it the bit that says

      Frankenberg noted that the study demonstrates the unique role space-based measurements can play in monitoring greenhouse gases.

      âoeSatellite data cannot be as accurate as ground-based estimates, but from space, there are no hiding places,â Frankenberg said.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    47. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "logic" of "Fracking has been responsible for a big decline in US greenhouse gas emissions" seems to be lacking. How could the conclusion follow from the premise?

      Quite simply, this is because natural gas is a much cleaner resource than coal. Cleaner to pull from the ground (as opposed to blasting off a mountain), cleaner to burn in terms of greenhouse gases, and cleaner to burn in terms of particulates. Any google search for "is natural gas cleaner than coal" will bring up a mountain of science to choose from.

      Frankly, I have the feeling you're in a mental state where no evidence would really sway you. You have the feel the other side of the coin of a climate change denier. Fracking may be bad for various reasons you'll jump to if you choose to do a google search and see the science, but in terms of emissions it is much cleaner than coal.

    48. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Note that companies have a strong financial interest not to leak methane: every 1% they leak is profit they are throwing away; you don't think big evil greedy capitalist corporations are going to throw away money like that?

      They did with oil.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    49. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by silfen · · Score: 1

      They did with oil.

      Say again? Total world oil production is about 4 Gt. In the 70's annual spills averaged around 0.01% of production. Today, it's more like 0.0002%.

    50. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Oil is visible, and there are currently regulations mandating that they clean up spills. Once there weren't, and in those times they didn't cleam them up, and the spills were a lot larger.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    51. Re:yes, let's "zoom out" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You responded with:

      Note that companies have a strong financial interest not to leak methane: every 1% they leak is profit they are throwing away; you don't think big evil greedy capitalist corporations are going to throw away money like that?

      They did with oil.

      You pulled that claim "They did it with oil" out of your ass. There is not a shred of evidence that oil producers leaked enough oil to affect their profits.

      The only thing that we can conclude from this thread is that you are an ignorant bigot. But we knew that already.

  3. Not a huge deal by itzly · · Score: 3, Informative

    Between 2003-2009, the region released 0.59 million metric tons of it into the atmosphere

    While interesting to understand where it is coming from, that's still a tiny amount. For comparison, total human production of CO2 is 29000 million tons per year.

    1. Re:Not a huge deal by hyades1 · · Score: 0

      Methane's effect as a greenhouse gas is roughly 25 times that of CO2.

      Do the math.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    2. Re:Not a huge deal by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that 14.75 is more than 29000?

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    3. Re:Not a huge deal by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Wow, you can't even read the article to get your facts correct;

      Methane is an extremely potent heat-trapping gas; while it has a much shorter life cycle than fellow global warming culprit carbon dioxide, some estimates put it on the order of being 80 times more powerful.

      Do the math.

      I will do the math. .59* 80 = 47.2 which is 0.16% of 29,000.

    4. Re:Not a huge deal by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      I will do the math. .59* 80 = 47.2 which is 0.16% of 29,000.

      Over seven years. The CO2 figure just covers one year, so it's actually a lot closer to 0.024%...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    5. Re:Not a huge deal by itzly · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, the factor 25 is reasonable if you keep into account the shorter life cycle of the methane, and you want to calculate the effects over the next century. After that, the factor gets close to 1, because the methane will be converted to CO2.

    6. Re:Not a huge deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that 14.75 is more than 29000?

      No, I think he's saying that one site, whether that's one processing plant, one methane storage facility, or whatever, being responsible for 0.05% of global greenhouse gas production is pretty fucking astonishing. I mean, there's 7000 coal-fired power plants in the world. They're supposed to be responsible for about a quarter of global greenhouse gas emission. That means your basic coal plant is good for about 0.003% of global greenhouse gas. So, what's going on at this one "clean" natural gas facility that makes it 15 times worse than a "dirty" coal plant?

    7. Re:Not a huge deal by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      So you're comparing methane emissions from one small part of the US and finding that they're smaller than total human production of CO2?

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    8. Re:Not a huge deal by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      The 0.59 number is one region.
      The 29000 number is for the entire planet.

      The comparison isn't meaningful.

    9. Re:Not a huge deal by itzly · · Score: 1

      It makes sense to put it into perspective, because that "one region" is an anomaly. It's not like the whole planet is like that.

    10. Re:Not a huge deal by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      some estimates put it on the order of being 80 times more powerful.

      I don't see that quote in the AGU article, so I'm going to guess that comes from "Vice" ; quite why you'd take a figure from a website about prostitution over one from a geophysical union in a discussion over a science question, I don't understand.

      It looks as if Vice's cut'n'pasters (I can't call them journalists) grabbed several figures from various sources and just said "up to [the highest]" without doing any checking on why they were getting a large range. From other sources, I'd have said that methane was about 23 times as powerful a greenhouse gas as CO2 ; upthread hyades1 says 25x ; meh to that difference. Where an 80-fold ratio comes from, I've no idea. That could be a figure for some CFCs (they are also potent greenhouse gasses as well as ozone-fuckers) ; it might be true for ethane or higher alkane gasses (minor components of some natural gas deposits) ; or it might just be a figure made up from whole cloth. but the 80x figure is clearly wrong.

      The half life of methane in air (against oxidation to CO2) is around a decade ; there are probably considerable temperature effects in there, making an average a bit dodgy to measure. It's not centuries (we'd see it in the records of previous major releases of methane to the atmosphere, such as my bread and butter Palaeocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum ; it's not days (otherwise this plume would have oxidised away ; it's somewhere in between.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  4. Relative sizes by badger.foo · · Score: 5, Funny

    For UK and European readers, "the size of Delaware" is just a tad more than a fourth of "the size of Wales".

    --
    -- That grumpy BSD guy - http://bsdly.blogspot.com/
    1. Re:Relative sizes by operator_error · · Score: 0

      Can you possibly even imagine how many Libraries of Congress this newly discovered methane hotspot equates to?

    2. Re:Relative sizes by Spy+Handler · · Score: 3, Funny

      Also for UK readers: TFA is talking about meeethane gas.

    3. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For Australian readers, "the size of Delaware" is just a tad more than two and a half times the size of the Australian Capital Territory. Or in other words, freaking small.

    4. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For UK and European readers, "the size of Delaware" is just a tad more than a fourth of "the size of Wales".

      Thanks dude but:
      A) We non-U.K. Europeans don't really know "the size of Wales" since this European Union thing is new - until very recently we were killing each other.
      B) U.K. does not want to be, and it's not Europe!!!
      So... what's the size of Delaware (and Wales) in relation to a Greek region?

    5. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And for the Swedish wanting to recolonize Delaware area, it's little more than half of the Härjedalen province where the musk oxes roam and release methane.

    6. Re:Relative sizes by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Also for UK readers: 2500 square miles is 4023.35 square kilometres*.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    7. Re:Relative sizes by mjwx · · Score: 1

      For UK and European readers, "the size of Delaware" is just a tad more than a fourth of "the size of Wales".

      For Australian readers, "the size of Delaware" is about 2.8 times the size of the ACT.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    8. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or 4000 square kilometers if you keep the same number of significant digits.

    9. Re:Relative sizes by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Funny

      For speakers of Commonwealth English, 'a fourth' is American for 'a quarter'.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re: Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the square part. 6500 km^2.

    11. Re:Relative sizes by Carewolf · · Score: 2

      For speakers of Commonwealth English, 'a fourth' is American for 'a quarter'.

      Did you buy that information for a fourth?

    12. Re:Relative sizes by behrooz0az · · Score: 0

      Oh man, can't we just ignore UK and get it over with?

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    13. Re:Relative sizes by behrooz0az · · Score: 0

      And you did the math wrong. it's ~6400 KM2

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    14. Re:Relative sizes by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I never understood why the US manages to use quarter for the coin, but fourth in other contexts. Outside the US, fourth is used exclusively to mean the ordinal.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    15. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... what's the size of Delaware (and Wales) in relation to a Greek region?

      It's slightly over 1/ 46623333333338^2 smaller than your mom's corn-hole.

    16. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For Amercan readers, the "size of Delaware" is comparable to the size of Prince Edward Island.

    17. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The UK is part of the rest of the world, so you already do ignore it.

    18. Re:Relative sizes by amias · · Score: 1

      we calls it cow farts roun yer loike

      --
      [site]
    19. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Also for US readers, we actually use miles in the UK unlike the rest of Europe. If you come visit you will notice all the speed limits are listed in miles per hour. We also use inches and feet sometimes, but not for things shorter than one inch (because who wants to say things like thousandthsth of an inch).

      How about a deal. We'll start pronouncing it meh thaine if you will please please please stop getting the plural of Lego wrong. Firstly the company says you are wrong, but more importantly my grandma used to add the letter "s" to the end of words where it didn't belong, so whenever I read it the person morphs into an elderly relative. "Would you like a glass of Dr peppers or Coca Colas while you play with your Legos dear, ooh my back"

      This is a trade I could live with. I'm not particularly attached to pronouncing it a specific way. I'll even throw in removing the "u" from colour to sweeten the deal.

    20. Re:Relative sizes by Required+Snark · · Score: 3, Informative
      The first building constructed for the Library of Congress was the Thomas Jefferson building in Washington DC. It opened in 1897.

      The current floor space is approximately 600,000 square feet or 55741.8 square meters or .021522039 square mile. The state of Delaware is approximately 2026 square miles. Therefore, the size of the methane hot spot is around 94136.23 times the size of the Library of Congress.

      Note that this leaves out the sizes of the Annex, built in 1930, and the Madison building, built in 1981. The Madison building is over 2 million square feet.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    21. Re:Relative sizes by dbraden · · Score: 1

      Nah, not at all. He was simultaneously writing a commentary on the effects of the new Common Core standards of teaching. ;)

    22. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say that like an Australian would have any idea how bit the ACT is.

      Now, express it in slabs of beer and I'll start to understand.

    23. Re:Relative sizes by geogob · · Score: 1

      I'm lost. How many Olympic swimming pools is that?

    24. Re:Relative sizes by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Funny

      For everyone else, they're talking about 6,500 km2.

      (Or, the combined area of about 1293017700000 ping pong balls)

    25. Re:Relative sizes by ladoga · · Score: 1

      Or 4 Mm^2. (4 square megametres)

    26. Re:Relative sizes by DirePickle · · Score: 1

      I'm not particularly attached to either pronunciation of methane, but I'll fix how I say Lego if you guys fix aluminum.

    27. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much is that in Libraries of Congress?

    28. Re:Relative sizes by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

      Can you convert that to rods/hogsheads?

      --
      Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    29. Re:Relative sizes by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Or to put it another way, "the size of Delaware" is about the size of Brunei or Kosovo (Brunei is somewhat smaller and Kosovo somewhat larger).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    30. Re:Relative sizes by The_Noid · · Score: 1

      Or, for those using the other decimal separator: 6.500 km2.

    31. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      For geopolitically challenged environmentalist-globalist readers, Delaware is about the same size as the methane hotspot recently discovered in the American Southwest.

    32. Re: Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how many square meh-limit-ers is that? I need to be able to switch units for people that can't pronounce kill-oh-meter. Or is it send-tom-eter?

    33. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Quarter" is still often used for the fraction 1/4. What pattern do you use for 1/3, 1/5, 1/6, 1/7, etc. that "fourth" is excluded from?

    34. Re:Relative sizes by gtall · · Score: 1

      For the N. Korean readers, it is about the size of your average Kim Jong-un fart. His current absence is because some bureaucrat, who shall be known as Name Less from now on, lit a match at an inopportune time and burned the Dear Leader's hiney. Repairs are being made and he is expected back in action shortly.

    35. Re:Relative sizes by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Umm, no.

      4000 km^2 != 4 Mm^2.

      4000 km^2 = 0.004 Mm^2.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    36. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you guys not use third, fifth, or sixth for fractional parts, either? What do you call a third of something?

    37. Re:Relative sizes by turp182 · · Score: 1

      No, it cost two pence.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    38. Re:Relative sizes by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      That was part of the joke, along with the overly-significant digits. The * at the end is so I could refer back to it and prove that I'm not a complete* idiot :)

      *I haven't got an appendix**, for one thing.

      **I have really. That was another joke.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    39. Re:Relative sizes by Talderas · · Score: 1

      this European Union thing is new - until very recently we were killing each other.

      Clarification. Do you mean conflict between nation states or conflicts within nation states?

      If it's the former then the Bosnian War (1995) would be the most recent from my recollection. If we mean the latter then we're talking Ukraine (2014).

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    40. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We say both. But if I'm going to say a third, and a fifth. It makes more sense to also say a fourth instead of switching to a different language semantic for just one specific fraction.

    41. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't wait for your dinner party*

    42. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm lost. How many Olympic swimming pools is that?

      Olympic swimming pools is a reference for volume, not area. This should be properly translated into a number of football fields.

    43. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I never understood why the US manages to use quarter for the coin, but fourth in other contexts. Outside the US, fourth is used exclusively to mean the ordinal.

      I'm 53 years old and I've lived all my life in the USA.

      I have never heard anyone use the phrase "fourth" in conversation, except in the context of dates (July 4th, etc.) and similar ordinals. We universally say "quarter" for the 1/4 fraction in my experience. In every state in the union that I've visited (which is about half of them). Math books do say "one fourth" in some contexts during very early education, but the teachers still say "a quarter".

      On the other claw, when I was a child everyone knew what it meant when you said "quarter 'til one" or "half past noon". Today's kids all say "twelve forty-five" or "twelve thirty" instead, and occasionally you actually run across someone who literally cannot read an analog watch dial.

    44. Re:Relative sizes by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing they say a third. As opposed to a threeth. Do you say a threeth? What about a half? Is that a twoth? ;-)

      (Yeah, it starts being based on the same English names as digits from 1/5 on, but everything bigger than 1/5 uses a different word. Half, Third, Quarter, rather than Twoth, Threeth, and Fourth)

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    45. Re:Relative sizes by McFly777 · · Score: 1

      The comparison was to ordinal numbering

      first, second, third, fourth, fifth, ...

      versus

      whole, half, third, fourth (or quarter), fifth.

      Nobody suggested that there is a "threed" (except you), but one could validly ask why the #2 ordinal is called "second", and the #3 ordinal is "third". That is a different question however.

      --

      McFly777
      - - -
      "What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
    46. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kids don't say "Half past the monkey's ass and a quarter to its hole" anymore? Such a loss of culture.

    47. Re:Relative sizes by MooseTick · · Score: 1

      We use many terms. Back in the day, we used to say a third or a triad. It reminds me of the time I took a long trip. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. I didn't have any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

    48. Re:Relative sizes by chazman113 · · Score: 1

      As a native Delawarean I can say to the geopolitically challenged environmentalist-globalist reader, if you have to choose between visiting a huge methane hot spot and visiting delaware, go for Delaware! "The state that is often used in size comparisons of relatively small areas"

    49. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you ought to go back to school:
      4000 km^2 is 0.004 Mm^2 remember that the ^2 has meaning when converting.

    50. Re:Relative sizes by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      'Quarter to his balls' where did you growup?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    51. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many "Lichtensteins" is that?

    52. Re:Relative sizes by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Cows release methane by burping, not farting.

      With such extensive knowledge of bovine anatomy, can you tell me if Frank Zappa was right? With a tongue like a cow, can she really make me go 'Wow!"?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    53. Re:Relative sizes by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      A quarter is the weight of a tuppenny piece and should cost no more than thirty quid.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    54. Re:Relative sizes by hutsell · · Score: 1

      For UK and European readers, "the size of Delaware" is just a tad more than a fourth of "the size of Wales".

      Close. According to MapFight, it's at 31%.

      --
      Yesterday's Weirdness is Tomorrow's Reason Why
    55. Re:Relative sizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many "Lichtensteins" is that?

      40 Lichtensteins.

    56. Re:Relative sizes by amias · · Score: 1

      i was confusing them with hippos
      www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSKQ3ZNQ_O8

      --
      [site]
    57. Re:Relative sizes by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Hippos? The whales that did not go to sea?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    58. Re:Relative sizes by ignavus · · Score: 1

      I thought a delaware might be a metric unit for measuring area: like a hectare, only a bit larger.

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
  5. The Arrival III by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like those aliens are trying to alter our environment through massive methane production again, somebody should let Charlie Sheen know.

  6. Whole Lotta Cattle Out There Damnation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Going 10-10 Good Buddy.

    1. Re:Whole Lotta Cattle Out There Damnation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going 10-10 Good Buddy.

      Add that to the annual Four Corners Chili Cook-off and Beer Fest and I believe we've solved this mystery.

  7. Can't be true.... by thephydes · · Score: 0

    ... the guys at my pub say that "all this global warming shit is fucking bullshit" and "if they want methane they can sniff my ass"

    1. Re: Can't be true.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ask them how magnets work.

  8. How many Delawares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So it's one Delaware on the surface. But how many Delawares deep is it? ...which makes me wonder, if a Delaware is a unit to measure surfaces and has its equivalent in mi^2 or Km^2, would a Delaware^2 be applicable for volumes? or would we be talking fourth-dimensionally with mi^4 or Km^4 dimensions equivalents??? ... also, are we taking into consideration the topographic profile of Delaware, the state, or is it being flattened out?

    I need my coffee....

  9. Well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That stinks.

  10. 2500 square miles is 6475 square kilometers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where have the nerds gone?

    1. Re:2500 square miles is 6475 square kilometers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm thinking, not the UK.

    2. Re:2500 square miles is 6475 square kilometers by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Narnia.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    3. Re:2500 square miles is 6475 square kilometers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's okay, he works for NASA.

  11. Christian Frankenberg sounds like a bad scientist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anomalies are exactly the first thing you should focus on, to determine if there are errors with the observation or with the hypothesis. A real scientist worth his salt would never ignore an anomaly, which makes me wonder, just who is NASA hiring these days.

  12. Whadda coincidence, by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...it's over Rush Limbaugh's house.

    -5 Flamebait

    1. Re:Whadda coincidence, by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure Rush is glad you don't know where he lives.

    2. Re:Whadda coincidence, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure Rush is glad you don't know where he lives.

      But we don't know where he lives.

      A 2,500-square-mile search radius to find it? Yeah, have fun.

      You might want to bring a gas mask. Clearly he has issues.

    3. Re:Whadda coincidence, by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Actually, we do know where he lives. He lives in Florida.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re:Whadda coincidence, by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      But we don't know where he lives.

      A 2,500-square-mile search radius to find it? Yeah, have fun.

      I'm pretty sure you can see him from the ISS.

      http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Whadda coincidence, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would expect something like that to be centered directly on the District of Columbia

    6. Re:Whadda coincidence, by steelfood · · Score: 1

      We've finally located the asshole of the U.S.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  13. Oh Chrysler Sake by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    a fourth of "the size of Wales"

    Damn you, I can't get that B52's song out of my head now

  14. Hit Earth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NASA Finds a Delaware-Sized Methane "Hot Spot"

    When does it hit the Earth?

  15. Re:VOTE OBAMA 2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It took you two minutes to type that? That's pathetic. I can type that much in about 10 seconds.

  16. Re:Christian Frankenberg sounds like a bad scienti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People like you.

  17. Can't be true.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    case closed!

  18. Re:yes, let's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are you talking about? Did you even read the article? They are saying that the methane gas is coming from fossil fuel extraction. The article also says to put a hold on fracking, until they study more. That doesnÃt sound like anything the energy industry would say. We caused this huge methane gas problem and they think fracking could make it even worse. I think you have been so brainwashed that you just assume things without using a critical mind.

  19. Zoom out? As in consider a wider angle? by denzacar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Considering that the shitty *ngh* Vice *retch* article also states how "The hot spot predates fracking", maybe the equivocal suggestion to "zoom out from fracking" is meant as a call to stop looking at fracking as the main culprit (i.e. "zoom out" from it) for the release of methane?
    Meaning that someone should "take stock of the operations of the entire established fossil fuel industry" INSTEAD.

    But it's nice to see where one's preferences and loyalties lie.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Zoom out? As in consider a wider angle? by silfen · · Score: 1

      is meant as a call to stop looking at fracking as the main culprit (i.e. "zoom out" from it) for the release of methane?

      Exactly. Which implies that fracking is still considered a culprit, when in fact, it has been responsible for a large decrease in greenhouse gas emissions.

      You're engaging in the same stupidity as the authors.

    2. Re:Zoom out? As in consider a wider angle? by denzacar · · Score: 1

      No... I'm afraid that you are the prejudiced idiot here, looking for validation of your persecution complex or whatever that shit you have is.

      Cause, as seen in my followup post above... VICE typists ARE retarded and can't put a sentence together.
      But YOU are the one who manages to find an attack on your personal causes and favorites in a badly written, and thus made ambiguous, summary of a clear cut statement.
      I.e. To see something THAT ISN'T EVEN THERE!

      How's that paranoia working out? Who's spyin an hatin on you today? NSA? Russians? ISIL? Disney? Cats? Smurfs? Everyone as usual?
      Boy, that must be fun. Never a dull moment in your life with all those imaginary enemies.

      And now... for your personal amusement... just so you could not say you haven't seen it...

      Quote from the shitty VICE text:

      The scientists say the finding is reason enough to zoom out from fracking, and take stock of the operations of the entire established fossil fuel industry.

      And the actual statement from the American Geographical Union article they are quoting:

      "The results are indicative that emissions from established fossil fuel harvesting techniques are greater than inventoried," Kort said. "There's been so much attention on high-volume hydraulic fracturing, but we need to consider the industry as a whole."

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    3. Re:Zoom out? As in consider a wider angle? by silfen · · Score: 1

      Boy, that must be fun. Never a dull moment in your life with all those imaginary enemies.

      Oh, you're not my enemy. But unfortunately, Slashdot only has a "foe" button, not a "so stupid I don't want to see their stuff anymore" button.

      Anybody I considered an actual enemy, I would listen to.

  20. VICE are bunch of incompetent asshats by denzacar · · Score: 2

    Quote from the shitty VICE text:

    The scientists say the finding is reason enough to zoom out from fracking, and take stock of the operations of the entire established fossil fuel industry.

    And the actual statement from the American Geographical Union article they are quoting:

    "The results are indicative that emissions from established fossil fuel harvesting techniques are greater than inventoried," Kort said. "There's been so much attention on high-volume hydraulic fracturing, but we need to consider the industry as a whole."

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  21. English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For speakers of Commonwealth English ...

    So just English then? (i.e., pronouncing things properly, like the last letter of the alphabet as "zed", and spelling colour correctly)

  22. Proper link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    looks like an oil refinary is in the middle of it: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9700225,-108.166424,919m/data=!3m1!1e3

  23. roasted pepper & garlic sandwiches by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Funny

    NASA Finds a Delaware-Sized Methane "Hot Spot" In the Southwest

    My Uncle Tony moved to Phoenix two years ago. I'm just saying.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  24. That's not very smart by arvindsg · · Score: 1

    We didn't focus on it because we weren't sure if it was a true signal or an instrument error,

    That is not very smart, Such a huge discrepancy from expected value no matter what the reason should be the first thing to focus on. What use were your other measurements if you weren't even sure if the 2500km spot was instrument error or real thing.

  25. Re:yes, let's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The primary effect of fracking is the lower price of fossil fuels.

    I thought the primary effect of fracking was contaminated groundwater and aquifers...

  26. Smug Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it George Clooney's smug floating around the southwest?

  27. Re:yes, let's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    no, the primary effect of fracking was russian propaganda against it all over the net

  28. So... by koan · · Score: 1

    What's the other hotspot on the West coast close to LA?

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  29. Re:yes, let's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Preferably in a peer reviewed journal that is not funded by the energy industry. You know, some organization that is actually credible, rather then being a bunch of paid shills.

    I'm not entirely sure such an entity exists any longer. In any branch of science.

  30. coal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    coal, naturally occurring coal. idiots can't to a damn thing about it either.

  31. Re:yes, let's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, by all means. Let's cite some honest references from the corrupt and diseased climate change industry. Frack Mother Earth until she groans!

  32. Re:yes, let's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know she likes it. First the drilling, then the injection . . . oh yeah . . .

  33. BEANS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure you are aware of the methane producing power of Mexican food?

  34. America in decline. by Snufu · · Score: 3, Funny

    For UK and European readers, "the size of Delaware" is just a tad more than a fourth of "the size of Wales".

    That exchange rate keeps plummeting. When I was a kid, you could get two Wales for a Delaware.

  35. Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone light a match!

    KABOOOM!

    Problem solved.

  36. If that's an oil refinery, I'm a superhero by PseudoCoder · · Score: 1

    Maybe a local storage facility, but there ain't a damn thing there other than barrels to indicate that it's a refinery.

    --
    "Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
  37. Sized what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, people, comparisons like "Delaware-sized", or "the size of Montana" don't mean much to the rest of the world... ;)

  38. perfectly NATURAL - NOT MAN-MADE by Thud457 · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is just Gaia naturally trying to clear up a nasty infestation of Homo Sapiens and return to a normal equilibrium. Nothing to be alarmed about here.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  39. Size vs resolution by Technician · · Score: 2

    Like a photo flare or photo of a smoke cloud, this is a single time event sample as far as I can tell. Was there an industrial or transportation accident? Many tests for hydrocarbons are cross sensitive, such as a sensor for Propane will detect gasoline, natural gas, butane, etc. What sensor is used, what is the sample time, what else is it sensitive to, and were there any significant accidents or releases in the area recently? If it was from the soil, soil based sampling should have seen this concentration long ago in gas exploration.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
    1. Re:Size vs resolution by timeOday · · Score: 5, Informative
      Confirmed by independent sensors over a period of 10 years:

      SCIAMACHY measured greenhouse gases from 2002 to 2012. The atmospheric hot spot persisted throughout the study period. A ground station in the Total Carbon Column Observing Network, operated by the Department of Energyâ(TM)s Los Alamos National Laboratory, provided independent validation of the measurement.

    2. Re:Size vs resolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's done off a satellite sensor that requires multiple passes (oh no, a Multipass). Not sure of exactly how long the data collection went on, but it's not a one shot deal.

      The problem with soil based sampling is that you have to do them. Lots of them. Even though current development of the Four Corners area has Edward Abbey rolling in his grave, it's still pretty much nowhere. And yes, this should be confirmed by another method.

    3. Re:Size vs resolution by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Many tests for hydrocarbons are cross sensitive, such as a sensor for Propane will detect gasoline, natural gas, butane, etc.

      Very true. I've put together and worked gas detection machines for three decades now. Different sensor technologies have different cross sensitivities. It sounds as if your experience is with IR absorption sensors, probably on one wavelength (more wavelengths reduce cross-alkane sensitivity, but increase cost ; single wavelength sensors are fit for purpose for flammability/ explosion risk monitoring, but not for interpretive/ analytical work).

      What sensor is used, what is the sample time, what else is it sensitive to, and were there any significant accidents or releases in the area recently?

      FTFA ; sorry, the second FA

      In the study published online today in Geophysical Research Letters, a journal of the American Geophysical Union, researchers used observations made by the European Space Agencyâ(TM)s Scanning Imaging Absorption Spectrometer for Atmospheric Chartography (SCIAMACHY)

      FTFIWP (From The Fucking Instrument's Web Page, http://www.sciamachy.org/

      is a passive remote sensing spectrometer observing backscattered, reflected, transmitted or emitted radiation from the atmosphere and Earth's surface, in the wavelength range between 240 and 2380 nm.

      Well, that tells me enough - medium UV to medium IR, plenty of appropriate absorption bands there. If they say "methane" they mean "methane."

      If it was from the soil, soil based sampling should have seen this concentration long ago in gas exploration.

      Looking for actual figures ... the absolute values they're recording are around the 1740-1760ppbv level. Every contractor I've worked with (apart from our own in-house machines) claims to be able to detect at this level in drilling gas results ; none of the contractors I've investigated in depth have been able to prove these claims. When I ran our own machines in the field, I could get them down to this level of sensitivity, but it would take several hours a day of adjustment to keep them there - which is not something you can really spare the time for from your other duties. These days, I set up machines to just detect at this level, then leave it at that level. We're looking for aditions of methane (and other hydrocarbons) to our gas stream from drilling a well ; we're not interested in the atmosphere except as a source of noise to be accounted for.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  40. Bingo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Credibility in this field is shot. Whenever you start rejecting perspectives, you create an orthodoxy which must not be strayed from.

  41. only one hotspot among dozens? by peter303 · · Score: 2

    If its due to industry I wonder what they are doing wrong there that they dont do in several dozen other methane production areas around the country. This could eailly point out its some unusual natural cause. It will be scientifically interesting to find out what the cause is.

  42. America in decline. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have not seen any Whales in Delaware for a long time.

  43. LFTR by inthealpine · · Score: 1

    LFTR.

    Oh, are we just complaining and preaching here? Then never-mind that answer.

    --
    "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash"
  44. Thank god you converted it to metric for me . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    . . . I didn't think I would ever stop crying.

    Now excuse me, while I go change my diaper.

  45. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  46. "We didn't focus on it because we weren't sure if by flayzernax · · Score: 1

    "We didn't focus on it because we weren't sure if it was a true signal or an instrument error,"

    Because they were told not too. They damn well knew their instruments were calibrated right or the data would have been tossed.

    This is such bullshit and just goes to show you how much control the fossil fuel industries really have over the world. If you don't think there aren't crazy old scrooges with their fingers on assassins harassing scientists, government officials and powerful businessmen and dictators and tryants alike.

    You're a fucking moron.

    Does everyone get directly assassinated that goes up against these bastards? Nope. But indirectly enough pressure is put on the whole pyramid scheme of society to kill any innovation down low at the base and to keep the top tightly controlled. And trust me the tools of terror these assholes use aren't simply assasins. It's just a blank generalization of the situation.

  47. Methane leakage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have long wondered how much leakage there is in the natural gas distribution system. It doesn'the take much to destroy the greenhouse benefits of natural gas. I'm glad to see numbers that aren'the provided by the Koch brothers.

  48. The one who smelt it, delt it. by kimgkimg · · Score: 1

    Okay who farted?

  49. Can't eat oil by pablo_max · · Score: 1

    Are you really comparing water spend on something so wasteful like farming to something which we need to sustain life, like fracking? wait....

    1. Re:Can't eat oil by WrongMonkey · · Score: 1
      Fossil fuels sustain life. Without heat, millions would freeze. Without fuel to operate machinery, modern agriculture would be impossible and billions would starve.

      Almonds, though? You can live without almonds. We definitely don't need use a trillion gallons of water each year to grow almonds in a desert during a drought.

  50. PG&E by AaronW · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's just another Pacific Gas and Electric pipeline.

    --
    This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
  51. AND THEN by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Observing the huge size of the methane cloud the researcher tried to lite his cigarette. Problem solved.

  52. Me? Who said anything about me? by denzacar · · Score: 1

    I'm not a smurf.

    It is, as usual, all about you, dude.
    And your partiality towards seeing things that are not there.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Me? Who said anything about me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens