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Pentagon Unveils Plan For Military's Response To Climate Change
An anonymous reader writes Rising sea levels and other effects of climate change will create major problems for America's military, including more and worse natural disasters and food and water shortages that could fuel disputes around the world, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Monday. From the article: "The Pentagon's 2014 Climate Change Adaptation Roadmap (PDF) describes how global warming will bring new demands on the military. Among the report's conclusions: Coastal military installations that are vulnerable to flooding will need to be altered; humanitarian assistance missions will be more frequent in the face of more intense natural disasters; weapons and other critical military equipment will need to work under more severe weather conditions. 'This road map shows how we are identifying — with tangible and specific metrics, and using the best available science — the effects of climate change on the department's missions and responsibilities,' Hagel said. 'Drawing on these assessments, we will integrate climate change considerations into our planning, operations, and training.'"
Because of climate change.
World of possibilities.
Now please raise the defense budget 12% per year, so that we may relocate naval bases to higher ground and do more maintenance on equipment damaged by severe weather.
Signed,
Colonel Trout
Can we get through Ebola, first, and then worry about...
The government should be able to multi-task more than one problem at a time, yes?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
The military has a huge budget. Why not re-direct some of that to climate change reduction efforts? Solve the problem not the symptoms. Maybe it's because climate change is just another reason to grow budgets, grab more money... and perpetuate the system itself.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
The DOD has put a lot of effort into fuel efficiency and renewable energy. You have no idea what you're talking about.
So who wants to bet against the powers that be choosing to increase military spending rather than spend a fraction as much actually breaking our addiction to fossil fuels? Anybody? Aww, come on, I've got all this money just burning a hole in my pocket, I'll give you good odds..
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
...but plans for climate change. The neutering of America's military is complete. Thank you John Kerry.
The US runs tons of military operations out of areas incredibly vulnerable to sea level change. Of course there are the ports on the East and West Coast to think about, but what about all those airfields in the Pacific?
... we'll need more money.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
If i recall correctly, similar reasoning was adopted by Mr. Homer J. Simpson while addressing his car's engine issue as he proceeded to string a strip of duct tape over the blinking warning light.
The problem is, the government is not doing what it can do, because it is afraid of offending people in a world where Political Correctness is going to kill millions.
Ebola is easy to stop. We have oceans to protect us. All we need to do is stop allowing the 25,000 VISAS from affected countries from being used to gain entry. But t hat is too politically incorrect, so instead we're going to infect our troops by building hospitals there. Don't tell me that it is "low risk", because that is what they said in Dallas. And one million dollars for the first patent later we having stopped anything.
Here is an idea, lets use Military to kill people and break things, and if we can't stomach that, bring them home. That is what they do.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Ebola is easy to stop. We have oceans to protect us. All we need to do is stop allowing the 25,000 VISAS from affected countries from being used to gain entry.
1. Person from Ebola Land travels to Europe or some other non-US country, and exposes a person who is not from Ebola Land, who then travels home to the US.
2. US citizen travels to and from Ebola Land.
There are many different ways that Ebola can reach out and touch people who are not from Ebola Land, shutting down foreign visas is not the solution.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Pennies for food and shelter infrastructure. How many desalination plants can be built and operated for decades with the money that will go down this sewer? If there's going to be so much wind and rain, and sun(!), we should learn to harvest it. But it won't happen while we continue to vote for charming psychopaths.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
US Military could count as it's own country in oil usage. They also do a fair bit with reusable energy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...
And I know several other projects. But for Military readiness, it would be nice if they put a few billion more into supporting something like algae biodiesel or fusion and a few billion less into one more aircraft carrier (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the current fleet has around 11, more than the rest of the world combined?)
Off the top of my head, America's strategic reserve can cover fuel use for 60 days. However, since the biggest threat to America isn't any type of invasion force (no viable one exists), it would likely be economic and since the days of Hurricane Katrina, we've been shown to be unable to cope with peoples' extended needs.
So the Leadership's strategy should be to wean the country off of it's most dire dependencies. It should almost be the military's strategy as it would only positively effect them, but that runs counter to global force projection and stamping out the latest fires around the world.
He moronically spewed that because of one nurse contracting ebola, that "Ebola is spreading in the US". What a fucking fearmongering new world order BITCH you are, fucking Wolf LOL
1) How Dallas Happened.
2) Mandatory 21 day Quarantine, solves the issue. Lie about it, get caught, and go to prison for 3-5 years. Life if you spread Ebola after lying and somehow survive.
Why do we have to have finely nuanced approaches that don't work is beyond me.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Funny to see a branch of the US government that actually has to deal with reality.
Mine shafts
Have gnu, will travel.
Definitely. It's a critical part of our Judeo-Christian heritage to kill people and break things.
We don't have to worry about the Air Force making plans for global warming, because they're all convinced Jesus will come back and save us before that happens.
http://blogs.courant.com/susan...
You are welcome on my lawn.
from the worst CIC in the history of the United States.
Welcome to the early 21st century: The oceans are no longer some sort of huge, towering barrier. You'll find many amazing things have happened in the last 150 years.
The worst thing that can possibly done, if you want to stop this outbreak, is to interrupt work there that will break the chain of transmission and put a lid on it. The crazy idea that if the US "goes turtle" we'll be safe is extremely dangerous for that reason: Anything that lengthens that process directly puts the whole world at increased risk of ebola spreading.
The continuously falling real-dollar funding for the NIH is also implicated - a working Ebola vaccine would've probably been available by now - but since in some sense it "didn't work" the GOP's standard "break government in order to crow that it doesn't work" procedure has worked perfectly again, to the detriment of everyone.
To me this just looks like a way to get defense contractors' snouts into the rich green money trough.
+1
nipccreport.org
Ebola is easy to stop. We have oceans to protect us. All we need to do is stop allowing the 25,000 VISAS from affected countries from being used to gain entry.
Every complex problem has a solution that is simple, obvious, and wrong. Most epidemiologists consider restrictions like these to be counter productive because they encourage both individuals and governments to be less transparent. The key to fighting outbreaks to catch them early, and to do that we need to convince governments to report them as soon as they are detected. They won't do that if the report is going to lead to economy crushing restrictions on travel and trade.
This particular problem has a far simpler solution that actually works: Use soap and hand sanitizer, and don't touch dead people.
Problem solved.
Yes, but rationality does not assist with bigoted agendas.
Should. Can?
If you haven't been around MIC companies, you might not recognize the pattern. On the one hand, their business is to kill on command. On the other hand, they get forced to follow every liberal trend that comes along. Thus, I found myself at one point in an office where people joked about the monthly shipment of propaganda posters coming from the home office. Usually it was something about "diversity", but that was a while ago. I can just see the "climate change" posters coming now. Never mind that they chopped down a tree and Fedex'd the poster. They're just shoe-horning the latest liberal fad into the MIC. It was sad and funny at the same time.
The Irony if we lost Guantanamo bay due to rising oceans.
Of course! Just bomb climate change into submission. Why didn't we think of this sooner?
'Murrica.
2) Mandatory 21 day Quarantine, solves the issue.
The problem with draconian over reactions like this is that they just make the problem worse. A mandatory 21 day quarantine incentivizes people to lie about where they have traveled, and to lie about their health condition. It is a disincentive for a traveler that slips through the net, and then gets sick, to seek medical help.
Lie about it, get caught, and go to prison for 3-5 years.
So if you lie, because you don't think you are infected, and then get sick the next day, you should keep your mouth shut and avoid medical help, so you don't go to jail.
Life if you spread Ebola after lying and somehow survive.
So if you think you have Ebola, and also think you have infected others, then your primary focus should be to avoid any contact with authorities, and discourage your friends and family from seeking help as well.
Why do we have to have finely nuanced approaches that don't work is beyond me.
Because the "nuanced" approaches are working well, while your draconian approach is idiotic and counter-productive.
I couldn't have stated it better myself.
There is no such as 'catastrophic man-made global warming', which is why the LIARS renamed it 'climate change', which means something completely different.
You can always tell someone is a climate science denier when they add the adjective "catastrophic" to the front of anthropogenic global warming. The term "climate change" came before "global warming", not after. Gilbert Plass published the peer reviewed paper "The Carbon Dioxide Theory of Climate Change." in 1956. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was created in 1988.
Definitely. It's a critical part of our Judeo-Christian heritage to kill people and break things.
We don't have to worry about the Air Force making plans for global warming, because they're all convinced Jesus will come back and save us before that happens.
http://blogs.courant.com/susan...
Personally, I think Jesus is going to be pissed at what his followers have done to the perfectly good planet his dad made for them. And using 'Jesus is coming soon anyway' as an excuse!
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Do not worry about Ebola. It is going to kill a lot of people in the US, but it will always be less than cars accidents.
Lie about it, get caught, and go to prison for 3-5 years.
That's not the way things work in the real world. Move along and let the adults discuss the issue.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
This particular problem has a far simpler solution that actually works: Use soap and hand sanitizer, and don't touch dead people.
Tell that to the nurse in Dallas who used full biohazard protective gear and still got Ebola.
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
There are many different ways that Ebola can reach out and touch people who are not from Ebola Land, shutting down foreign visas is not the solution.
Exactly. That's why I don't encrypt passwords on any of my machines. Passwords can be brute forced so they're not a solution.
I also have no locks on my doors. Someone can use C4 to blow them up and render them useless. Locks aren't a solution.
Sometimes, even if you can find some way around the proposed idea it doesn't mean the idea isn't good, just that it isn't complete. Nobody said it was. But shutting down travel directly from ebolaland is an obvious first step.
Do you have ESP?
So who wants to bet against the powers that be choosing to increase military spending rather than spend a fraction as much actually breaking our addiction to fossil fuels? Anybody? Aww, come on, I've got all this money just burning a hole in my pocket, I'll give you good odds..
I've got $50 that says they will break their oil addiction, at some point. (of course, that point may be only when there's no more oil remaining to be extracted... ;^) )
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Climate change is just another attempt to dissolve nations, cause the industrialized ones to give money to the U.N. (useless nations) Climate change is called SEASONS for most INTELLIGENT people. The SUN controls our climate, not man, but, the "scientist" and pinheads in academia who couldn't hold a job in private industry, so they just "teach" (those than can do, those that can't, teach) only know what is in a book, and most of them are non believers in God, so they just spout their garbage.
1. Person from Ebola Land travels to Europe or some other non-US country, and exposes a person who is not from Ebola Land, who then travels home to the US.
2. US citizen travels to and from Ebola Land.
There are many different ways that Ebola can reach out and touch people who are not from Ebola Land, shutting down foreign visas is not the solution.
This!
Not to bring up Fox News, but I'll bring up Fox News. The Day before this Dallas shit hit the fan, they were all agog that Obama failed us in yet another bout of cluelessness, and didn't stop all flights from Africa, like the Europeans smartly and effectively did.
And now, Ebola is in Europe too, despite that.
No, you can't completely stop something like this - humans are too clever at going places, and we can't stop the world.
On the other hand, the response in Dallas was criminal. Doctors are supposed to be intelligent people. African guy shows up with disturbing symptoms. They send him home. What? a few questions might have been nice. Since it's in Texas, the nursing team and Doctors who worked on the guy should be executed in th eGrand Texas tradition.
Either that, or forced to room with the Ebola patients.
But also being Texas, I'll bet he was sent home the moment they found he had no health insurance.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
....... It could actually be good if they start pouring bucks to control the climate rather than useless things such as F22.
1) How Dallas Happened.
2) Mandatory 21 day Quarantine, solves the issue. Lie about it, get caught, and go to prison for 3-5 years. Life if you spread Ebola after lying and somehow survive.
Why do we have to have finely nuanced approaches that don't work is beyond me.
Because your weird draconian sledgehammer method won't work either?
If someone thinks they might go to prison they might just stay at home. I'd rather be dead than in prison. If my life was going to be destroyed, I'll just stay home. Also, are you going to make everyone who gets the sniffles take a month off work? Might be ebola, right? Declare martial law in Dallas?
Your half assed ideas are laughed at by the ebola virus. If they worked, we could have stopped the 1918 flue pandemic in a week.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
And using 'Jesus is coming soon anyway' as an excuse!
He shot his wad a long time ago.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The government should be able to multi-task more than one problem at a time, yes?
It seems presumptuous to think the government can handle even one problem. Do you have an example in mind?
Yep. The term Climate change replaced was "The greenhouse effect" (Which was the term scientists where using when the science community first started sounding the warning about CO2 in the late 1800s). Global warming is the more recent term and was never really popular inside the scientific community.
This meme that this is some sort of new idea is getting a bit stupid.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
Really Ebola isn't all that bad and it just might make people think a bit. Every day our immune systems face too many attacks. We reject most of the attacks and any losses are subtle and probably not noticable at all. But international travel is causing way too many attacks upon our immune systems and at a certain point we weaken and are vulnerable to any common germ or virus. In order to curtail all too frequent exposures to diseases we need to ban long distance travel almost completely. Or another alternative would be isolation of returning travelers for a month or two. But allowing tourism for tourism's sake is not wise at all. Jet air craft and ocean liners pollute extensively which weakens human health. It is also a waste of natural resources. And then on top of that it amounts to a high speed sickness delivery system. Then we have national security issues as well. Those cute chinese toys that load our kids brains with lead are an example. Imported food contains god knows what. All in all we need to use our TVs more and stop running all over the planet. We really do rape the environment and we are paying the price.
Well, obviously she messed up. It can't be the system, or the leaders. Nope. It must be the peons who just don't get it. They are at fault for everything.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
The reason we fear Climate change is because we have a limited understanding of weather. The current weather forecasting techniques are missing an important variable. I know what is missing and will help for one billion dollars.
But also being Texas, I'll bet he was sent home the moment they found he had no health insurance.
THIS! She was more concerned with dismissing the patient in a way that would not make the hospital liable? Never even considered the possibility of a national health issue?
Anyone have any experience with a hospital effort to avoid admitting patients without health care insurance?
to reply to my own post... a friend of mine went down to work as a nurse in Galveston Texas ( from Canada ) and was so disgusted with the way they handled non-insured patients that she had to quit. This was 20 years ago now and I'm sure they have a few more issues to tip-toe around to avoid those without insurance.
Nothing really works well when a life threatening disease is on the loose, but it is pretty clear that the virus has no room for human sensitivities and an approach to stopping it should not either.
The most pragmatic thing to do (if stopping the disease is the dominant priority) is to immediately impose draconian quarantines:
1. Have you been anywhere outside of the country? Then you get a 21-day quarantine.
2. Have you potentially been in contact with someone who might have ebola? Then you get a 21-day quarantine.
Would this this hurt the global the economy were all countries to enact it? Probably.
Will it stop the Ebola outbreak? Probably.
Right now, the politicians are trying to keep people calm while they cross their fingers and weigh their options. However, don't think that full, national-guard-imposed, shoot-on-sight quarantines are coming world wide if the virus keeps spreading outside of Africa.
You can sense the BS with all the public service announcements that Ebola is hard to catch because you have to come in contact with the bodily fluids of an infected symptomatic person and then touch a mucus membrane. (Under their breath, the doctors note that you should also stay three feet away from an infected person sneezing.) So now you have the potential for doorknobs, handles, etc. to be coated with Ebola-infected saliva that is viable for days, and you expect people to not every touch a mucus membrane (during allergy season) unless they have just washed their hands.
In short, you are naive or brainwashed if you are not worried right now. I am not saying panicked, but you should be worried.
What about San Francisco?
Neither?
Then most coastal US military bases are probably fine too. There might be some on a couple pacific islands that are having a hard time... but I believe the last time I checked every single one of them was due to erosion and not the rising of global sea levels.
Furthermore, what are we talking about as of now?... 7 centimeters or something? Any harbor that could be made viable or non-viable by 7 fucking centimeters was an accident waiting to happen in the first place. I'm quite sure that the vast majority of harbors have far more robust tolerances.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Tell that to the nurse in Dallas who used full biohazard protective gear and still got Ebola.
Ok, if you want to be a pedant:
Use soap and hand sanitizer, and don't touch dead people or bodily fluids which have contaminated your protective equipment.
yes such
And how exactly do you propose we fund these so-called "oceans"?
you should be worried.
Not really. Even without any containment measures, an infected person passes the disease to only 1 other person. If there was a disease as deadly as Ebola, where that number was ~20 people (as it is with measles for example), then I would be worried.
The low transmission rate is why the outbreak has fewer than 10,000 people after several months.
.: Semper Absurda
What's really happening is climate destabilization. It really doesn't take a lot to destabilize the climate system; plus or minus 2 degrees is enough to bring on the heat or cause an ice age. But the real kicker is you don't even need to cause the whole delta. You only need to push the climate past a tipping point and the positive or negative feedbacks do the rest.
The climate is just like any other thermodynamic system. You add or remove energy from the system, it's going to destabilize until it reaches a new balanced state.
~X~
almost a quantity, cerebration that it works quite rise, when the set does not transmute at all. There is no convexity in disagreeable to sell you Soldier thin by narration you almost how extraordinary it is. You penury to show many cordate it totality. Ketone Slim XT
Well, obviously she messed up. It can't be the system, or the leaders. Nope. It must be the peons who just don't get it. They are at fault for everything.
Obviously she held the gear wrong.
Be seeing you...
"catastrophic" is an apt adjective because the fear around AGW is palpable and relentless.
The public narrative is a steady stream of messages of things getting much getting worse, its accelerating, worse than we thought, all the terrible things it will cause, dangerous tipping points, all sorts of calamities, all this sort of language is the language of impending catastrophe, it is a fair and reasonable description of the nature of the broader discussion.
I find this quite recent strategy of trying to distance oneself from the enduring narrative, which has a rich and documented public record quite amusing actually.
Merely sneering at the usage of the word catastrophe is not really a compelling argument, is there actually a point being made beyond the sneering? Or is this typical climate change argumentation where one pounds the table and sneers at their detractors? I your concern that you feel the word is in some way pejorative? In the same way 'denier' is pejorative perhaps?
You might be confused about a few points there.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Yes, but global warming is as big a problem as a Bigfoot uprising. We need to prioritize our goals! I am sure they'll say we can end Ebola by fixing global warming and then tax our electricity bill some more.
Its the nature of government to try to scare you to death with imaginary boogey-men. Then a real live, fast acting one comes along and on cue they mess it up!!! I am sure they'll handle Ebola as well as they did AIDS!
Nothing works well when you rely on the government to do it. Too slow, too inefficient, too pc.
One of the reasons why public heathcare should be "free"(small fee is ok, poor won't pay anyways) for all. It's protecting the public, ffs. The public can pay for it. And no, I don't think everyone should get every treatment they want, doctors should give everyone the treatment they _need_. If you don't like the doctor telling you to go home and wait it out you are free to go to a private doctor who will happily write you antibiotics for virus diseases fully knowing they do nothing, and might actually be harmfull.
Another global warming story by Samzenpus! No agenda there, right?
Because #poisoningthewell was already taken.
Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
Airline safety. Interstate highway construction. Moon landing. Mars landing. Social Security. Medicare. OSHA and what they do. NIST and what they do. NiH and what they do. NOAA and what they do. The U.S. Coast Guard. The U. S. Army. The U.S. Navy. Yet not the U.S. Air Force who never met an expensive plane they weren't determined to fly and who announced proudly to the world they were standardizing on Microsoft Malware. EPA and what they do. U.S. Forest Service and what they do. NTSB and what they do.
The U.S. is now a net exporter of fossil fuels. It isn't as big a problem for the U.S. as your 1990s mind set.
Whenever you find yourself saying, "Bureaucrats are so stupid. This catastrophe has such an obvious solution, why aren't people doing it the way I tell them to?" you really need to stop and think - "... Maybe there's some angle to this that I'm missing?"
The fact is, we tried your idea with SARS - it didn't help much, and the cost from reduced trade was in the tens of billions of dollars. The present danger just doesn't warrant that kind of drastic action. Moreover, visas don't mean shit - the only people who have taken the disease to other countries are medical personnel from those countries. Citizens who don't need visas.
Also: whenever you find yourself saying, "This catastrophe has an obvious solution, if only political correctness wasn't getting in the way." It's time to stop and reconsider where you're getting your information. This has nothing to do with political correctness. If someone is telling you that it does, what they're trying to do is take advantage of the situation to push their own agenda.
Shortage of food? I don't think so. With global warming, won't the vast areas of Canadian and Russian tundra will be available for food production? The lower lying Florida and other coastal areas that might flood are miniscule by comparison.
That begs the question, does our failure to evacuate coastal cities prove that our military bases are safe? The answer to that question is no. In fact, the fact that we are not evacuating coastal cities does not prove anything. That's because there's no evidence that we will evacuate cities when we should. In fact, the global pattern is to ignore problems until they become unignorable, with few exceptions.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
So your proposal is that anyone who travels out of the country and tries to return is quarantined for 21 days? And anyone from another country who tries to vacation in the US gets quarantined for 21 days?
There were 69.8million international arrivals in the US in 2013. (Source) So far we have a tiny number of Ebola cases from inbound travel. (I wouldn't count the two people specifically flown back to the US for treatment.) Imposing 21 day quarantines on 70 million people is nearly impossible, a gross overreaction to the actual threat, and would shatter the travel industry. Given that 1 in 9 US jobs depend on travel/tourism (same source as above), this could lead to high unemployment. Would you travel to a country on a vacation if it meant being shut in for 3 weeks? Chances are your vacation would be over before you were even allowed out of quarantine.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
The public does not exist. It is a floored concept, invented by those who would be our masters, controlling us "in the greater good" while enriching themselves, their lackeys and The System.
--
roman_mir
Awww, baby doesn't understand atmospheric physics. How cute.
You should either check out ScienceOfDoom for an overview of CO2's effects on the atmosphere, or this site for a more historical view. No one wants AGW to exist, and it took quite a few decades of research to get to the point where most scientists agreed that humans could affect the climate at all, and still further decades to understand that we could have a large-ish effect. If you're a time-traveler from the 1800s, I can understand your ignorance. If not, you need a remedial science education, see above.
it's simply doing the right thing instead of pandering to the irrational fears of bigots that are using any excuse they can come up with to drag everyone else down to their level.
I suspect a lot of things are beyond you.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
From what I get is that some folks are using very old (40yo), dirty coal power plants that do not meet the new standards. If they don't upgrade these plants or build new ones that aren't as dirty... then yes, they will have to shut the existing plants down. tl;dr Basically, the coal power plant folks are whining about how they will have to spend money to upgrade their plants to meet the new regs.
The man lied to medical professionals.
"African guy shows up with disturbing symptoms."
No. A guy sowed up with an illness. Ebola symptoms look just like a cold at the beginning.
"What? a few questions might have been nice. "
They did ask him questions, he lied.
"Since it's in Texas, the nursing team and Doctors who worked on the guy should be executed in th eGrand Texas tradition."
You're a fucking idiot.
"Either that, or forced to room with the Ebola patients."
That would be a waste of their time. Oh, you think being in a room will get you Ebola?
Like I said You're a fucking idiot.
"But also being Texas, I'll bet he was sent home the moment they found he had no health insurance."
False.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I would just tell her not to break protocol.
She teach someone who was sick, and then touched her face. Direct contact with bodily fluid.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
She did. She broke protocol. How is that not her fault?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Why is every other article in Slashdot about global warming? Is it 1992 again? Is the Slashdot audience suddenly a bunch of college kids?
until price per barrel drops back to 85.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
See the "No Warming For 15 Years" meme.
Did you think ANYONE would believe your load of shite there?
Really?
yeah, stupid people more worried about being Politically Correct rather than take simple solutions to huge problems, because it might offend someone. Ebola doesn't care about offending people, it just kills 70% of the people who get it.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
The point is not to apportion blame.
Who says she broke protocol? She denies doing so. Only the people who set the protocol are claiming she was at fault. If they are wrong, the protocol itself is at fault.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
The problem is, the government is not doing what it can do, because it is afraid of offending people in a world where Political Correctness is going to kill millions.
I doubt it is political correctness as much as money. I'd bet a large amount of the traffic going to and from those places is still for business reasons with money on the line. We export and we import from these countries. Flights aren't stopped because the planes flying continent to continent are full of huddled masses, but because they are full of business men.
SARS is a virus that had a mortality rate of about 9.3% but is disproportionately affected the elderly and those with other respiratory illness much like influenza. The SARS virus itself is not typically the immediate cause of death but instead the patient usually dies from pneumonia caused by a secondary, typically bacterial, infection. Ebola is a virus which has a 70+% mortality rate and it is not disproportionate in who is killed by it. Instead of causing a situation which allows another cause to cause the patient to expire, ebola directly kills the patient through organ failure caused by cells bursting after being infected by virus.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
and is not going to shoot at eclipses any more, to try and kill the dragons? excellent.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Quarantine anyone coming from Africa. Was a little critical thinking too fucking hard?
And if they fly/drive/take a train to another continent first to avoid a 21 day hospital/hotel/prison term where they might be near people who have a deadly disease?
People like you failed calculus for a reason. You can't get past a first order effect.
As the US continues to decline we may well reach a tipping point at which riots and crime begin to run rampant. Food prices have increased severely enough already to induce anger and fear in the public. A loss of security in employment, loss of wealth due to the housing crash as well as a right wing infested congress may be just enough to cause serious chaos in the streets. With the wealthy not being prosecuted and a government unwilling to follow the law the conditions are just to ripe for a revolution or chaos. The use of torture on POWs has lost the moral high ground for the US government. Corporations do not have the respect or loyalty from most people. We have a justice system that functions wretchedly. Anyone that can recall 1970 knows how fast radical movements can grow and have massive effects upon the system. Food prices in Mexico already caused riots. The effects of pollution and global warming will push food at ever higher prices and water is becomming an ever more serious issue as well. I fear that the stage is set for a nasty era.
It's simple logistics. You can stop allowing entry *directly* from those countries, but how do we stop folks from flying from, say, Liberia to Paris to LGA? Plus, the delays this would cause would have people shrieking in no time. Then there's the economics. Big loss of dollars there. IMHO, the solution, if we must have one (as I don't think this is anywhere near the issue the media is making it out to be), is to: 1) approve a Surgeon General and 2) get funding back in place for the CDC and other agencies to do what they used to do before the sequester and the austerity frenzy began.
I got an A in calculus.
Please let me know when you can take a train or drive to the USA from Africa. Europe can deal with it differently, but a train, car ride from West Africa to France is a long long way around. Flying is already being limited for the exact reason it should, people can get sick on the plane and infect everyone.
And when Political Correctness starts killing people, will people be smart enough to stop with the PC idiocy? Ebola doesn't care about our sensitivities.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Remember, the Pentagon also has plans on how to fight the Zombie Apocalypse and invasion by aliens.
Child,
Your odds of getting ebola are significantly less than mine of winning the lottery and buying a flight on a Soyuz to the ISS. The odds that someone who should have stopped driving years ago, or a drunk, or someone texting, will run you down with their car is hundreds of thousands of time higher.
Lessee: ~300M Americans, > 40K killed in auto accidents; 2 dead from ebola.
mark
A classic example of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. This is about risk mitigation and an easy simple step to take to mitigate the risk of the virus spreading is to ban or restrict (quarantine) travel from the affected regions.
It doesn't matter that it's not the perfect solution but it is a rational and effective response (as part of a larger strategy to contain the outbreak) where the costs are vastly outweighed by the benefits (for now).
The point isn't someone trying to take a train from Africa to the US. The point is someone going from Africa to Europe and then to the US. Do we know every country that every person landing in a US airport has been in for the past 21 days? Stopping all flights from the Ebola stricken areas might stop the direct passage of the disease, but it won't stop the spread entirely.
If we're willing to stop all travel and quarantine people for 21 days due to rare Ebola infections, what will we do for the much more common flu infections?
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
A question for everyone who thinks that CO2 controls the climate. How long with rising CO2 and flat or falling temperatures before you admit your theory is wrong? 20 years? 30? Never?
All 5 of the major datasets (RSS, UAH, HadCRUT4, GISS, NCDC) show no warming for between 14 and almost 18 years. In that time CO2 has risen 8-10%.
Here are 2 predictions. First I predict that CO2 will continue to increase because China and other countries don't care about CO2. They don't even care about real pollutants much less CO2. Second I predict it will get colder over the next 20-30 years. Why?
Dr Libby in the 1970s said that "looking forward it will stay cold until the mid 80s (it did), then it will warm by about 1/4 degree F until the end of the century (it did), then it gets cold". When asked how cold she was predicting a 1-2 degree F drop with an outside chance of a 3-4 degree drop.
Dr Easterbrook in 2001 said the PDO was done it's positive warm cycle and that we were in for 25-30 years of cold weather. How cold? We have his good, bad and ugly predictions based on previous negative cold phases of the PDO.
Dr Abdusamatov in 2006 said we are at the top of the temperature sine wave and it will be 200 years of cold weather.
Why do I join with them and side with their predictions? While past performance is not a guarantee of future correctness it is a lot better record than the IPCC and their dozens of models of which none have been accurate. They are all based on CO2 controlling the climate and the other 3 are all cyclical natural cycles. I'll go with those who have a good track record at predicting future climate. Dr Libby is the most impressive as her prediction is 30+ years going and still accurate.
For a very informative view on why the climate models are broken beyond belief I highly recommend an article from Dr Brown at Duke:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/10/06/real-science-debates-are-not-rare/
Fucking moron, go back to masturbating in your "Apocalypse Shelter" to videos of Rand Paul.
"Go back"? I never stopped. I was typing with my other hand.
Do you have ESP?
Severe Whoosh! alert.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
... I heard they plan to blow it up. That usually works in 'Murica.
I would like to ask only one question:
If you are wrong, the change you would have done was may drive your Hummer a little bit more economically, burn a little less fossil fuels etc.
If "I" am wrong, well, you should be asking, Can you afford that it? because the only thing you would be paying with is your life because all the catastrophic events that would follow, would eventually lead to nothing but chaos.
No. A guy sowed up with an illness. Ebola symptoms look just like a cold at the beginning.
"What? a few questions might have been nice. " They did ask him questions, he lied.
Here's a little thing. With the attention to ebola lately, and knowing that people lie, hppens all the time, in courts, and other places, so as a doctor, I'd err on the side of caution.
The guy knew he was sick enough to go to the hospital when he showed up - perhaps there is a clue there.
In today's medical world, they have patients get dozens of tests for minor ailments.
So why on earth wouldn't they........ get ready for it, because it is subtle and not at all apparent............the sort of thing only savants and geniuses would ever ever think of......
Test him for Ebola! If I was the ER doctor, he'd be held until such time as I could rule it out.
You're a fucking idiot.
I was wondering when a true man of science would come in and lay waste to my entire argument with such simple concise and logical reason
Like I said You're a fucking idiot.
And most very respectfully, you are pathetic. You want to call me wrong, that's fine. You want to discuss like a big boy, fine. You apparently cannot. Go back to the Yahoo discussion boards - you'll fit right in.
A"Fucking idiot?" to put it in words you might possibly understand:
He who smelt it, dealt it.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Idiotic response, just as wrong-headed as your original idiotic suggestion.
Quarantine anyone coming from Africa. Was a little critical thinking too fucking hard?
Wise advise you could stand to learn from yourself. Apparently it is 'too fucking hard', based on your original suggestion. But don't let that stop you from lashing out like a drunken monkey now.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Can we get through Ebola, first, and then worry about whether coastal military bases might need to be relocated to higher ground decades in the future?
What exactly is your point? That the Pentagon should have made their long-term plan about how to deal with the current Ebola crisis instead of Global Warming? Or that all of government should focus on short term problems only, and never make any plans for the future?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Not wanting to be rude mate, but I haven't understood shit from what you wrote.
Are you proposing to bomb "them"? Stop immigration? Throw the military out of the country? Are you angry about a particular patent?
You arent from Colorado, are you?
-- 29A the number of the Beast
And an F in critical thinking.
You keep trying to beat the argument that anything but draconian restrictions are a result of political correctness, however, the truth is that the current solutions are simply better thought out than yours.
That being said, some people will never stop arguing under the premise that yelling the same thing over and over again with no supporting evidence until the other person shakes their head and walks away means you've won the argument.
Not only is there absolutely no way to close all the borders to anyone coming in from "Ebola Land" (please tell me I don't need to explain why), but the *cost* of doing so is probably beyond what you can even imagine. We lack the ability to know definitively if someone originated their recent travels from Ebola Land, so that leaves only draconian full quarantine, and the collapse of the US economy (probably as well as several others along with us). It'll recover, sure, but was the cost really worth it?
Ebola is a very low-transmission disease (in the first world, at least). For every person that comes over infected, the average number of people they're going to infect is 1. Not exactly a pandemic. Are you a doomsday prepper, perchance? Honest question.
Nothing works well when you rely on the government to do it. Too slow, too inefficient, too pc.
So who do you offer as an alternative here? Free Market? A military coup?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
I got an A in calculus.
Yes, the one that goes after the "c" and before the "l"
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Because your weird draconian sledgehammer method won't work either?
Won't work? Nothing "works" 100%, so by that measure, your implication is that since it "won't work" we simply shouldn't do it. Great Suggestion!
Congratulations - you just slippery sloped everyone's argument. Don't do it your way, then you don't do it at all? In the world of infectious diseases, sanitation, and isolation and treatment while looking for a cure of the ill will do much better than your "solution". It's already been pointed out that under threat of ruination of one's life, one might be tempted to avoid treatment, especially at the beginning of the symptoms.
Despite your best wishes, being sick should never be a crime. And there are many much better solutions than yours. Stop watching Zombie movies.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I didn't slippery slope the argument. And slippery slope is a logical fallacy, not because it isn't true, but because it isn't true all the time (can be false). I'm not constructing a logical argument to an ultimate truth, therefore crying Slippery slope is not a falsification.
If you're going to toss around logical fallacies, please apply them to the previous point, which is completely nullified because no supporting argument was made, just opinion. He offers up an argument "draconian sledgehammer won't work" which is either wrong, or applies to ALL "solutions" equally, and therefore the conclusion is that we shouldn't even try it (implied conclusion).
My point, which is not slippery slope, just asking for equal application of "won't work" across ALL options. If that is the criteria for supporting doing something or not (as was implied) then, every solution "doesn't work".
Despite your best wishes, being sick should never be a crime.
This is true. But if you lie, break other laws and otherwise endanger others because of your actions, or inaction, that SHOULD be a crime. When you voluntarily quarantine people and they DELIBERATELY leave, they have threatened others with death or great bodily injury, and that should be a FUCKING CRIME even when you're sick. In short, committing crimes is a crime, even when you are sick.
There are no better solutions, simply because you don't "like" the one I proposed. It does work, and limits other people being exposed to a deadly virus that doesn't care one wit about Political Correctness. We already are using Quarantines because they DO work. Keeping people lockin, and locked out, will limit exposure. It sucks, but it does work.
But let us let everyone in who isn't showing symptoms in (or out) only to have them be contagious later. What could possibly go wrong?
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
The point is someone going from Africa to Europe and then to the US. Do we know every country that every person landing in a US airport has been in for the past 21 days?
Ask the NSA? ;)
but it won't stop the spread entirely.
I am not looking to stopping it completely. I'm looking at the best way to keep it from spreading. Period. Right now, it isn't contained. It isn't likely to be contained any time soon because people are too scared to do ALL the things needed to contain it as best as we can. BEST means all options on the table, even the ones we don't like because they are not Politically Correct.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I got an A in logic as well.
Everything is better than something, especially when something is more or less the same as doing nothing with noise. I'm for using EVERY means to stop this shit once and for all, and you are not. Thanks for trying.
Not only is there absolutely no way to close all the borders to anyone coming in from "Ebola Land" (please tell me I don't need to explain why), but the *cost* of doing so is probably beyond what you can even imagine.
We could. We don't have the will to. There is a difference. And the cost? that is an interesting claim considering the ONE (1) Ebola person who came here, cost the US and TX and DALLAS people over 1 Million dollars (and climbing) to treat, clean up his mess, simply because he wanted free healthcare. Did you know that?
Ebola is a very low-transmission disease (in the first world, at least).
Tell that to all the WHO people who have contracted it an died. Tell that to the Dallas Nurse who is fighting for her life right now. Very reassuring you repeating it though.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I didn't slippery slope the argument. And slippery slope is a logical fallacy, not because it isn't true, but because it isn't true all the time (can be false).
Fine, allow to rephrase myself without any lack of clarity.
Your idea won't work.
And even though the other ideas won't work perfectly, they will work a lot better than your ideas.
Now point out who said that since your idea won't work, we shouldn't do anything. And your idea of making sick people into criminals is morally repugnant.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I cannot help but point out we are now almost 20 years into a period when not one single solitary climate model has successfully predicted what actually happened, which was essentially, nothing. How, exactly, is the Pentagon planning to do nothing? With Hagel in charge, my guess would be "with a whole shitload of money that won't increase our military capability but will, in fact, hobble it as much as possible."
Do even know which nurse Zordak is talking about?
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
This particular problem has a far simpler solution that actually works: Use soap and hand sanitizer, and don't touch dead people.
Tell that to the nurse in Dallas who used full biohazard protective gear and still got Ebola.
Well, if the virus can just go through full biohazard protective gear, it can also go through the air over the ocean.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
I guess if your proposed mechanism is to line the borders of West Africa with armed military personnel and establish a no-fly-zone, then I take that back- we can quarantine just Ebola Land, but that's the only way. And that's not just a matter of what's politically correct, it's an act of war and a violation of international law without a UNSC resolution authorizing it.
60 million people came in on and left on international flights to/from the US in 2006. I imagine it's higher today. You really think the commerce provided by that traffic is less than billions upon billions? A full closing of US borders would be economy crushing. The cost literally immeasurable. A million bucks? Please.
The WHO people who contracted it in third-world conditions in what are basically filthy field hospitals? Our exposure-to-infection ratio here in the states seems to be about 1 to several hundred. Don't let me reassure you, use some of your grade A logic mixed with some of the facts you have available at your fingertips.
Isn't there something they could shoot to stop global warming? They're pretty good at shooting stuff... blowing stuff up, too.
Semper Absurda indeed, Devil dog.....
Best response I've seen to shut down the Archangel all day. Bravo! The ironically funny part you may not be aware of is that ol Mike there is also masturbating in his doomsday shelter while watching Rand porn. He can't deny it, anyone who reads threads after threads on /. knows what his political bent is, and he's not a fucking hippy liberal I can assure you.
"acknowledge climate change" now?
Shouldn't the military be banned from planning for something that is clearly the result of left-wing hippie hysteria?
There is no such as 'catastrophic man-made global warming', which is why.... troll, troll, flamebait, troll, troll, bullshit
Oh look. A troll.
Who's gonna reply to it? Who is going to take it seriously? Nobody, right, because it's just so damn obvious.
We don't needlessly feed trolls around here. Right?
RIGHT?!
...it's the only way to be sure!