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Too Much Privacy: Finnish Police Want Big Euro Notes Taken Out of Circulation

Posted by timothy on from the convenience-of-the-state dept.

jones_supa writes The Finnish Police are concerned that larger banknotes, namely the €200 and €500 banknotes, encourage criminal activity and should therefore be removed from Finnish cash circulation. Markku Ranta-aho, head of the Money Laundering Clearing House of Finland, says criminals prefer cash because it is harder for police to track. In contrast, a record of electronic money transfers remains in the banking system, which makes the police's job considerably easier. Ranta-aho also says citizens rarely use the larger banknotes anyway, with which The Bank of Finland's advisor Kari Takala agrees. However, The Bank of Finland is skeptical about the ability of a ban on €500 banknotes to eliminate underground labor and trade in Finland. Takala suggests criminals would just switch to smaller bills. More illegal transactions take place via bank transfers, he says.

26 of 314 comments (clear)

  1. Re: if you ban cash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "You got the stuff?"
    Yeah.
    "You got the money?"
    Yeah. My trunk is full of unmarked quarters.

  2. Not only in Finland. by NettiWelho · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not only in Finland! I've heard that in the United States aswell the police is very proactive about taking notes out of circulation.

    1. Re:Not only in Finland. by rossdee · · Score: 3, Funny

      And of course all the money in Swiss bank accounts is honestly earned and legit...

    2. Re:Not only in Finland. by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You joke but the US took larger bills out of circulation a long time ago over nonsense like this.

      The irony of course is that inflation has devalued what's left to the point where it actually makes some sense to bring some of those larger bills back.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:Not only in Finland. by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not a problem. We've switched our organized crime over to using mortgage and insurance backed securities.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Not only in Finland. by kilfarsnar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not only in Finland! I've heard that in the United States aswell the police is very proactive about taking notes out of circulation.

      Civil forfeiture has got to be the biggest truckload of bullshit I have heard in a while. So now the state can just take my money because of what they think I might do with it? How can we be expected to respect law enforcement when they pull crap like that?

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    5. Re:Not only in Finland. by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How can we be expected to respect law enforcement when they pull crap like that?

      Because they'll kill you if you don't.

      The problem with getting though with crime is that it means the police is expected to be though. And this is how though guys act. This is, always has been, and always will be, the price you pay for demanding "thoughness": you'll get fascism.

      Americans brought this on themselves.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:Not only in Finland. by mythosaz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh man, I hope I'm there when you call the police, so when the police and the store laugh at you, I can join in.

      http://www.treasury.gov/resour...

      This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

      Hilarious indeed.

  3. To their defense by Meeni · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a normal person I never had use of large bills like that. Even 100 is an annoyance as you have to get it accepted for change somewhere. So in essence nothing of value would be lost. Then the claim that it would be effective at curbing illegal business is not very strong either.

    1. Re:To their defense by r1348 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It would do nothing to curb criminality, it's just another excuse to privatize the circulation of money. Want a cash-free economy? Fine, give me my free State debit card.

    2. Re:To their defense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      As a normal person I don't use Raspberry Pi boards or metal lathes, either. There's no reason anybody should be allowed to have those, either.

    3. Re:To their defense by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That would do nothing to ensure anonymity, which is another huge advantage of cash.

    4. Re:To their defense by pz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In contrast, as a normal person, I've used EUR 100 and EUR 500 bills regularly to take care of, well, large transactions that need to be confirmed and delivered faster than a bank transfer would allow (and when the people involved rile at paying 3% for credit card fees, or aren't set up to take credit cards in the first place), like paying vendors, or hotel bills outside of big cities.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    5. Re:To their defense by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It would do nothing to curb criminality

      The best way to curb criminality is to have fewer crimes. Most of the "crimes" involving the exchange of cash are transactions between consenting adults, for goods and services that should not be illegal in the first place. The solution to oppression and prohibition is not more oppression and prohibition.

    6. Re:To their defense by Sique · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I use the 100 EUR bill all the time. My average weekend shopping tops 100 EUR easily (we are a family of four), and then paying with the 100 EUR bill and additional cash just makes sense. And yes, I prefer paying cash. Maybe you are the exception?

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    7. Re:To their defense by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The larger the bill, the more profitable it is to counterfeit it, and the less likely that a shop clerk will recognize it for a counterfeit due to the small number of them handled over time.

      Bill-denomination is something that's interested me for awhile actually; it seems from my limited view of time like in the United States, the $20 has been the standard bill for 30+ years. I can remember as a child, my dad sending me into the convenience store to prepay so the clerk would activate the fuel pump, and usually going back for just a couple dollars change at the most. I wonder if stores' unwillingness to take $50 and $100 bills actually helps work against inflation as consumers end up putting a relative-value compared to the $20 on items for sale.

      I've also wondered about the $1 bill in the same way, for lesser goods and vending machines and the like.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    8. Re:To their defense by gnasher719 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Since you don't use cheques in most of Europe, how do you manage large transactions for things like vehicles? There are certainly electronic means here, but they are far from ubiquitous and with every other company getting hacked, no one is inspired to shuttle their money through them.

      My wife once bought a brand new car that was paid for with 17 banknotes showing a picture of the Grimm brothers..

    9. Re:To their defense by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Informative

      I normally have 4-6 500 Euro bills on me at any time and maybe 2 200 bills and a few hundreds and some change. It is much more convenient than having stacks of twenties or tens. I move from place to place, it's business related and I don't want to be in need of quick cash and have to run around searching for an ATM.

      The criminals will not have a problem with any of this, this will only inconvenience the rest of the people, just like everything that governments do.

      --
      You can't handle the truth.
    10. Re:To their defense by kilfarsnar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In contrast, as a normal person, I've used EUR 100 and EUR 500 bills regularly to take care of, well, large transactions that need to be confirmed and delivered faster than a bank transfer would allow (and when the people involved rile at paying 3% for credit card fees, or aren't set up to take credit cards in the first place), like paying vendors, or hotel bills outside of big cities.

      This is another good point. Without cash, every transaction will have an added tax paid to the payment processor. Think your "no-fee" credit card is really free? You're paying for it one way or another in the form of higher prices. Visa, or whomever, has to wet its beak in every transaction. It's one more way the financial industry skims off the top of the economy. They would love to get rid of cash. Then every time anyone bought anything they'd get paid.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  4. Great. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you start banning things just to make the job of police easier, you know that your government has at least a few problems with freedom. If freedom means that police have a harder job, then so be it.

  5. Warped logic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In contrast, a record of electronic money transfers remains in the banking system, which makes the police's job considerably easier.

    Yes because our lives should be dedicated to making the police's job considerably easier. Welcome to the new fascist state, it's the same as the old one. It just doesn't have all the goose stepping and death camps.....yet.

  6. USA 1969 by musterion · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And just why do think the Federal reserve retired anything abouve $100 on July 14, 1969?

    1. Re:USA 1969 by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I don't need it; therefore nobody else does."

      People reserve unto themselves the right to purchase things anonymously. It's a check on government power, a kind of spying.

      How disturbed I am at the surity with which people view modern government as nearly perfected, and worthy of such spy powers, when nothing in all human history should give you confidence in that.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:USA 1969 by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Only if you believe BLS numbers. Their latest "basket" offsets the inflationary impact of wheat doubling and heating fuel and beef quadrupling by counting in the rapid fall in prices of flat-screen TV's.

      That's not how inflation was measured in 1969, but it's better for the politicians this way.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  7. Re:if you ban cash by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The big crooks are the ones making the rules.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  8. treatment denied by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    we see your purchased some burgers and fries when your doctor told you not to. services denied / co-pay raised.

    but I only bought those to give to the homeless...

    DENIED