The Future of Stamps

New submitter Kkloe writes: Wired is running a profile of a gadget called Signet, which is trying to bring postage stamps into the age of high technology. Quoting: "At its core, it is a digital stamp and an app. If you want to send a parcel, you'd simply stamp it with a device that uses a laser to etch it with your name and a unique identifying pattern. After that, the USPS would pick up your package; from there, the app would prompt you to provide the name of the person you're trying to reach." I'm curious whether such a finely-detailed etching can even survive a journey. How far can you expect it to travel before all the handling and sorting make the mark unreadable to the sorting machines in the delivery office? Then you'd have to worry the post office would mark it as a fraudulent stamp (as someone has to pay for the shipping in some way) and either return it or throw it away.

Comments

okay

[Anonymous Coward]

i can't remember the last time i mailed something. maybe once in 2012.

Shipping companies....

[neoritter]

Shipping companies already do similar things with bar codes etc. So to the question in the summary, yes it should be fine. To the general idea, why? What's wrong with a QR code or a bar code?

Re:Shipping companies....

[gurps_npc]

1) This is prettier and cooler.

2) Easier to use for one off jobs, where you have one letter. 3) They envision ending/greatly reducing the physical stamp program. This will piss off the collectors a lot.

4) They get paid for it, rather than the company that makes the QR codes etc.

Basically, I don't think it has enough advantages to catch on somewhere where they already have stamps. But ISIL might want it for their new country, I bet they want to replace Syria's and Iraq's old postal system.

Re:Shipping companies....

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong? Nothing, except it's not their design, and they want to make ... *places pinkey finger in corner of mouth* one billion dollars from royalties.

That's why it has to be their design.

Re:Shipping companies....

[RecycledElectrons]

> Since QR codes are easily known, it would be trivial to send mail using someone else's code and bill them.

Did You see the part where you stamp the package, AND THEN it asks you on your phone for the address to send it to?

It would be no more hackable than a bank account that sends a code to your cell phone before it lets you log in.

Re:Shipping companies....

[ls671]

I don't have a phone. What will I do?

Re:Shipping companies....

[Charliemopps]

yes, this is a solution in search of a problem.

Re:Shipping companies....

[DigiShaman]

I'm really surprised no one thought about adding peppermint flavoring to the glue of all those Christmas stamps. Guess that might never happen now.

Re:Shipping companies....

[LordWabbit2]

You don't have a phone, philistine! Crawl back into your cave. I live in Africa, and EVERYONE has a cellphone. Unless they have recently been mugged of course. It may be a brick or a "feature" phone, but they have a cellphone.

Re:Shipping companies....

[tlhIngan]

2) Easier to use for one off jobs, where you have one letter. 3) They envision ending/greatly reducing the physical stamp program. This will piss off the collectors a lot.

The reason for the stamp is because the post office cannot control entry points into the system - i.e., they have "mailboxes" to which users of the system can deposit pre-paid mail. The stamp is the pre-paid part of it.

To do so with FedEx or UPS, you either have equipment to generate the labels for you where you pay for it when you make the labels and the package enters their system (similar to how the post office sells franking machines to do the same thing). Or you go to a store and they take the money right there (like a post office).

The stamp is only there because of mailboxes which can currently not check to see if a valid fee is paid.

Considering if the post office wants to do this for one-offs, it's probably easier to just have them sell a barcoded printed stamp you affix and they can scan to determine if it's still valid or if it's been used. They can do this online and the user just prints out the barcode.

So what exactly does this do again? Other than cost more money to do?

What future?

[jdkc4d]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel the future of stamps is going to be a world that doesn't use stamps. How much mail do you really send that you are still buying stamps? I realize lots of businesses still send things out usps, but they are probably printing their own postage at this point anyway and not using actual stamps.

Re:What future?

[lgw]

There are still bills I pay with paper. (Some companies still charge for the "privilege" of paying online, which pisses me off even though the amount doesn't matter.)

I occasionally deposit checks via mail. Even if I trusted my phone enough to put banking software on it (which would be a silly thing to do), that only works for some kinds of checks.

Some companies respond to customer complaints via paper mail much better than they do via the net.

Sometimes I send checks to family members who aren't technologically sophisticated enough for there to be another way.

Maybe all of those reasons will disappear eventually, but I doubt that will be in my lifetime. It's also worth remembering that you can still send some mail anonymously - frankly, I'm surprised you still can, as there's nothing a totalitarian state hates more than anonymous communication.

Re:What future?

[innocent_white_lamb]

I used to mail cheques to the utility companies and credit card companies and whatnot, but then I discovered that I can pay all of those bills at the bank down the street. They don't charge me anything for taking those payments, either, so it's definitely cheaper than paying for a stamp, an envelope, and a cheque. And it's right down the street so I can walk in, pay cash and get a stamped receipt on the spot.

I'm sure someone is paying them for the service of taking my money and sending it on like that but that someone isn't me, so I'm pretty happy about that. It saves a lot of stamps, and cheques.

Re:What future?

[mlts]

I have some bills which will get "lost" if they are not sent at least certified mail. Sent electronically, it isn't anywhere near as concrete proof [1] as a piece of physical mail sent with a signature trail.

Paper complaints, especially legal work are hard to ignore. E-mail, even calls, there is no paper trail and can be hidden. However, a certified message either gets received or it gets refused. Either way, someone had to interact with the document in a provable way. Even now, our society isn't paperless and when it comes to legalities, there is no beating physical paper documents.

As for banking software on my phone, I'd say that iOS and Android have a better record for security with a few caveats [2], than a desktop machine. However, my biggest concern with too much stuff on a phone is if it gets stolen. Of course, the ideal would be having the banking software use KeyChain or Google's equivalent and ask for a PIN before it is run, so all sensitive data is encrypted, not just by the phone's encryption, but by a specific API.

[1]: Proof to judges and juries who are still in the pen and paper age, and those are the people who need to be persuaded if worse comes to worst. You can talk crypto all day long to a jury, and their eyes will glaze over. Show them a piece of paper with a physical John Hancock on it, they will make a decision.

[2]: Depending on how well the jailbreak is crafted, it can destroy's iOS's security, where an app can go hog wild and do what it wants to.

Android is more secure in this regard, but apps ask for a lot of permissions . However, a rooted Android device is just as secure (barring a dumb user) than a non rooted one. Attacks like a compromised Web browser will have far less effect than they do on a PC.

Re:What future?

[Kjella]

This. Actual stamps is mostly a consumer thing, I just checked our commercial postal service and they recommend a "stamping" machine if you send more than 40 letters/week where you charge it up like a prepaid cell phone, same thing for packages except there they normally print to labels they slap on the package. And for the big companies you get bulk pre-printed envelopes with logo that are collected at your place of business and charged to your corporate account, we have those at work. The potential for abuse is small since you can't drop them off at a regular mailbox and it'd be obvious who you're using to pay for your postage. A lot of the consumer-to-business mail is prepaid and rolled into the cost of business too, the few times I use stamps is to other people but most of that is replaced by email since you don't need a formal signature on anything. I guess there's the odd package, but if it's too big to fit a mail box you're going to the post office anyway.

Re:What future?

[mendax]

I doubt it, at least not anytime in the near future. Stamps do have some interesting and necessary purposes for existence.

I write people in prisons. While some prisons and jails have e-mail systems in place through which you can write an inmate and, in some cases, the inmate can write back (Federal prisons being the best example of this) these are usually funded by a "tax" paid by the inmates in some way. For those inmates who don't want to use such services or cannot (California prisoners being one in that they don't have access to such systems), U.S. mail and stamped envelops are the only way to go. So, as long prisons don't have some other inexpensive way for inmates to communicate with those on the other side of the razor wire, stamps are here to stay.

Incidentally, because I write to prisoners I learn all sorts of things about life there. Since prisoners are not allowed to carry money, they use a barter system to buy and sell things. There are four kinds of currency in jails and prisons in the U.S: ramen noodle soups, instant coffee wrapped up in sandwich wrap, cigarettes (if they are permitted), and postage stamps. Think of the economic depression that would occur in the prison economy if stamps disappeared!

Re:What future?

[BarbaraHudson]

Someone's been lying to you. Drugs, cell phones, alcohol, and tobacco are the top exchange items. I guess you haven't been following the news, or someone's been yanking your chain.

Re: What future?

[BarbaraHudson]

Barb! Slashdot probably wouldn't have half the flame wars it does if you decided to stop visiting.

I'm honored that I'm the source of half the flame wars (somehow I doubt it - just don't let anyone know I'm the one responsible for slashdot BETA :-).

A quick search for "prison barter" found various sources for the "stamps as currency" myth. In fact, prisoners are only allowed 40 stamps at a time. When an illegal cellphone can go for more than a new iPhone 6, stamps aren't going to cut it. Same with booze, drugs, etc.

Do I know someone who as done time? Of course. Who doesn't?

Re:What future?

[Mr. Slippery]

How much mail do you really send that you are still buying stamps?

Outside of a dozen or two holiday cards, maybe three or four pieces a year.

I realize lots of businesses still send things out usps, but they are probably printing their own postage at this point anyway and not using actual stamps.

I've yet to see a solution suitable for home users.

Re: What future?

[drinkypoo]

A quick search for "prison barter" found various sources for the "stamps as currency" myth. In fact, prisoners are only allowed 40 stamps at a time.

Wow. I mean, seriously, wow. Because they're only allowed 40 stamps at a time, they can't possibly have more than that? You do realize they're not allowed cellphones or drugs at all, and they still wind up getting their hands on those? Logic, it's not just for a tiny part of your comment any more.

Re: What future?

[BarbaraHudson]

The stamps thing is BS. Inmates keep track of who owes what. They don't have to have any sort of "token" to remind them that "Jimmy the Stool" owes them, and if he doesn't pay up, Jimmy the Stool will be wobblier than a 2-legged stool.

Stamps have a serious problem - they deteriorate with humidity, so good luck hiding them in any of "the usual places."

Much of the time payment is made via contacts on the outside, usually friends or family, or by prison workers. They don't take stamps in return for smuggling in booze, weed, or cell phones. They do it either out of fear, to return a favour, or for cash or drugs from the outside contacts of an inmate.

Re:What future?

[BradMajors]

You might use USPS if you don't want third parties to read your messages.

Re: What future?

[tompaulco]

Do I know someone who as done time? Of course. Who doesn't?

I don't know anyone who has done time. At least not more than a day or two in a city jail.

Re:What future?

[lsatenstein]

There are still bills I pay with paper. (Some companies still charge for the "privilege" of paying online, which pisses me off even though the amount doesn't matter.)

I occasionally deposit checks via mail. Even if I trusted my phone enough to put banking software on it (which would be a silly thing to do), that only works for some kinds of checks.

Some companies respond to customer complaints via paper mail much better than they do via the net.

Sometimes I send checks to family members who aren't technologically sophisticated enough for there to be another way.

Maybe all of those reasons will disappear eventually, but I doubt that will be in my lifetime. It's also worth remembering that you can still send some mail anonymously - frankly, I'm surprised you still can, as there's nothing a totalitarian state hates more than anonymous communication.

For Canadians, cheques by residents are so passé. Businesses, of course, use cheques as proof of payment.

If you are doing consumer banking and If you do not take a special type of bank account, you are entitled to 3 cheques per month, and then whamo, around $7.00ea for the excess. So, we consumers have automated payment from accounts, or even online bill-payment options.

So, keep a balance to cover the cheques, earn no interest, and pay to make payments.

Re:What future?

[lgw]

I've had banks screw that up, is the thing. Wells Fargo, is there no paperwork you can't get wrong?

Re:What future?

[neoritter]

I prefer paying my bills by mail...

Re:What future?

[neoritter]

How is it a good thing that you can only use 3 checks per month for free? Most banks in the US have automated checking and bill payment, and allow you to use as many checks as you like. You usually just have to pay $10 for a pack of 200.

Re: What future?

[BarbaraHudson]

Do I know someone who as done time? Of course. Who doesn't?

I don't know anyone who has done time. At least not more than a day or two in a city jail.

So you DO know someone who has done time. And how can you be certain that some of the people you know don't have a hidden past? It's not like most people are going to advertise it. 65 million Americans with criminal records

NEW YORK, March 23, 2011 - More than one in four U.S. adults -- roughly 65 million people --have an arrest or conviction that shows up in a routine criminal background check, and a new report from the National Employment Law Project finds that these Americans are facing unprecedented barriers to employment. With the rapidly expanding use of background checks, employers are routinely, and often illegally, excluding all job applicants who have criminal records from consideration, no matter how minor or dated their offenses.

The new report highlights the widespread and illegal use of blanket no-hire policies by providing numerous examples of online job ads posted on Craigslist, including some by major corporations, that effectively bar significant portions of the U.S. population from work opportunities. Because of their blunt impact and extreme overreach, these blanket no-hire policies have become the subject of increasing litigation, attracting heightened scrutiny from the courts and concerned policymakers. At the same time, 92 percent of employers conduct criminal background checks, according to a 2010 Society for Human Resources Management survey.

"The fast-growing use of criminal background checks casts an extraordinarily wide net, potentially ensnaring millions of Americans who have an arrest or other record that shows up in a routine check," said Christine Owens, executive director of the National Employment Law Project. "These background checks are supposed to promote safety in the workplace, but many employers have gone way overboard, refusing to even consider highly qualified applicants just because of an old arrest or conviction. They're not even bothering to ask what the arrest or conviction was for, how far in the past it was, whether it's in any way related to the job, or what the person has done with his or her life since," said Owens.

The NELP report, entitled "65 Million ‘Need Not Apply': The Case for Reforming Criminal Background Checks for Employment," surveys online job ads posted on Craigslist in five major cities—San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, and Atlanta. The survey found numerous examples in which extreme requirements precluded consideration of anyone with a criminal record, in clear violation of federal civil rights law. Major companies, such as Domino's Pizza, the Omni Hotel, and Adecco USA, were just some of the employers that listed entry-level jobs on Craigslist—ranging from warehouse workers to delivery drivers to sales clerks—that unambiguously shut the door on applicants with criminal records:

And with more than a million people in jail at any one time ...

And that doesn't count the 1 in 10 that pass through juvie.

Re: What future?

[BarbaraHudson]

My claim was that most people know someone who has been in jail. Even if it's being held over the weekend to appear before a judge Monday morning to make bail, they've still been in jail.

And with over a million people in jail, and this population being rotated on a regular basis as people are released on probation or having done their time, and new offenders entering the system, it becomes very hard to say for sure that you don't know anyone who hasn't been in jail. People tend to hide their criminal records from neighbors, friends, even their spouses.

To say that you don't know anyone with a criminal record is the same as to say you don't know anyone who is a transsexual - you can't always tell just by looking, you know :-)

Re: What future?

[BarbaraHudson]

I hate to have to quote your own post to you, but:

I don't know anyone who has done time. At least not more than a day or two in a city jail.

So you DO know someone who has done time.

I took issue with that claim. Specifically and semantically, as you were misapplying "doing time" as a synecdoche for all jail-based incarceration. Your claim here is invalid.

Too bad your argument won't work with law enforcement the next time you try to cross a border.

Border Agent:: "Have you ever been arrested or convicted of a criminal offence?"
You: "No."
Border Agent: "Well, it says here that you were arrested and held overnight in connection with blah blah blah. Lying to us is a federal offence. Is there anything else you're not telling us?"

Also, falsely arresting someone gives rise to civil recourse, even if it was "only a day or two."

It's binary - either someone was detained or they weren't. It's like being pregnant. Trying to argue otherwise is like trying to say "well, it might have been rape, but it wasn't rape rape."

Packages sent through Canada Post

[innocent_white_lamb]

When I send a package from the post office here, they weigh and measure it, determine the price for the postage, and print a sticker with that amount on it. They slap the sticker on the package and that's all there is to it.

I don't remember the last time I sent or received a package that had real stamps plastered on it. Letter mail sometime does, and letter mail that I send out always does since I purchase a roll of stamps once in a while for that purpose. But not packages.

Pitney Bowes

[tomhath]

What does this provide that a postage meter doesn't? He also seems to think the USPS should spend billions retooling how they sort mail.

Re:Pitney Bowes

[Ichijo]

What does this provide that a postage meter doesn't?

The ability to keep your mailing address when you move, similar to the way third party webmail services let you keep your e-mail address when you change ISPs, or the way VoIP services let you keep your phone number when you move, or the way DNS lets you keep your URLs the same when you change web hosts.

FTFA:

When Martin Cooper invented the cellphone at Motorola in 1971, his idea began with the simple insight that telephones were attached to places. They were rooted at a home or desk, for exampleâ"and it was simply by coincidence or mutual agreement that the right person was at that location when the call was placed. The cellphone was meant to make telephones about reaching people, not places.

Re:Pitney Bowes

[Ichijo]

How would it know you have a layover in St. Louis?

Re:Pitney Bowes

[Atzanteol]

Swing and a miss.

Re:Pitney Bowes

[tomhath]

Why "stamp it with a device that uses a laser to etch it with your name and a unique identifying pattern". All it's doing is creating a mailing label, you can do that already.

The idea of auto-forwarding to the address in the post office's database is kind of different; but I'm not sure what that adds to filling out a change of address form and sending it to your post office.

Re:Pitney Bowes

[drinkypoo]

He also seems to think the USPS should spend billions retooling how they sort mail.

I don't know if they should spend billions, but they should really institute some logic to detect and correct routing loops. Right now these are detected by humans. If there's one ZIP on the address and another zip in the metadata (due to data entry failure, or misaddressing by the sender) then you'll get a routing loop until a human notices. That's pathetic given that every package is scanned when is passes through a sort facility, and they really ought to know where it's going.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[grouchomarxist]

The article is about parcels.

Complete waste

[Russ1642]

Why re-invent the printer just to stamp a package? All of the major shipping companies let you print out a shipping label already. As for the other stuff, such as having the shipping company look up an address, that can all be done with software provided there's enough incentive to develop it.

Re:Complete waste

[TrollstonButterbeans]

I think the idea is that people don't carry printers with them.

Anything requiring a printer is a bit broke by design in the modern age.

Re:Complete waste

[tomhath]

Yea, it's much more convenient to carry a shark with a laser on its head.

Re:Complete waste

[DigiShaman]

This better not be a hand-held unit. I can only imagine children getting ahold of this thing and playing around with it. Burning out the retina of your eye, thus rendering partial or total loss of vision would be tragic! No, they need to be in the form factor as as automatic stapler. Just slide the corner of a letter in the notch and it's good to go.

Might as well go total retrotech

[the_skywise]

Can you etch it in wax?

I can envision a custom mark and a unique postage shipping ID.

Stupidest thing I've read in a while.

[fahrbot-bot]

So I'll need the Laser stamp thingy *and* a smartphone app just to send a letter? Ya, that's much better.

Re:Uh....wow.

[KFK2]

Not only did they solve a problem that already has an answer.. they solved a problem where multi-billion dollar implementation (no matter the actual answer) has been implemented and has proven successful

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[Jarik C-Bol]

Just because you don't send physical objects anymore does not mean everyone else does not. The cynical part of me sort of thought this was going to be sponsored by the USPS, as another last ditch attempt to get people to mail more things, to stave off its eventual demise. While its true that the Postal Service is dwindling to store flyers and political ads in the digital age, I dread the idea of them shutting down, simply because when it comes right down to it, If i need to send something, they have the quickest, simplest, and most user friendly meatspace interface of all the carriers. (there is no FedEx office in my town, and the UPS office is open to customers for literally 1 hour in the afternoon).
Apparently, the objective these people seem to have is to actually bring back sending things to one another, which they claim is sort of a cultural touchstone we have lost in the digital age. To quote them "when was the last time you received something someone else actually touched?"
Sure, its sort of hippy-dippy, but there is sort of a visceral enjoyment that comes from receiving a physical package or letter, and their goal is to make sending things supremely simple. I actually like the idea myself, but I doubt that it will get implemented without either starting their own carrier, or a deep partnership with one of the private carriers. I suspect The USPS is to mired in political crap to adopt this.

This is a really useless idea

[g1powermac]

Ok, for a bit of reference, I was a rural mail carrier for awhile. And from being a carrier and talking with fellow carriers after being one I can tell you people don't really send much first class mail anymore. The USPS is now basically converting into the last mile run carrier of packages, both originating from their system and both Fedex and UPS's systems. The local post office I've worked at has at times not been able to handle the sheer volume increase of packages. Now, if people want to ship packages, they can already print their own postage off their computers so this device does nothing for that (and there's plenty of bulk label creation systems for larger shippers which is what I do now). The other fairly large user of the USPS is advertisers using bulk mail rates and they won't use a device like this since they already have permits. So I see little use for this.

Re:This is a really useless idea

[g1powermac]

Yup, yup, had to do plenty of that during my tenure. Though, seriously, there's plenty of crazy packages that get sent through USPS directly that are kinda tough on the poor carrier. I remember somebody shipped a concrete statue (yes, we're talking about a 70lb statue here which is the upper weight limit for them), and I had to carry the thing up a flight of steps in the middle of winter with ice on the ground. I was really kinda surprised I made it without flying down the steps with a concrete statue landing on my head. Actually, I was kinda glad I had the statue and not carrier that usually ran that route. I don't think she could have done it.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[kosmosik]

IDK how it is in the US but here in Poland the post is like an institution. Fe. if you have an invoice or legal paper you can send deliver it yourself, you can send it by private held company like TNT, UPS, whatever but only when you send it via Polish Post (national operator) it gets so called the power of postal stamp. Legally if you choose the right delivery type it is valid as delivery in court. Such postage is still deeply embodied in legal system and I think it has some merit. In Poland f.e. you could run a company and register its address for legal purposes as PO box in some large office complex where you just rented a PO box. In case of this special Polish Post delivery it is an obligation to the office complex administrator to deliver this postage physically as he gives the PO boxes to his clients he also has an obligation to deliver such postage.

I think Post Office isn't going anywhere and lots of people still send physical letters due to legal conditions and I don't think it is Polish only thing. Also people tend to send faxes. F.e. I was required to send signed legal papers via fax (snail mail would take longer but was also an option) when we was changing our DNS owner information due to company name change. This is silly but still it has some silly merit.

But as for the gadget in the article - laser postal stamps? It sounds quite cool but it makes no sense as in no real purpose. People who use snail mail en masse tend to have agreements with their posts to bulk send it with stamp or pre-printed stickers or pre-printed envelopes. In some countries to obtain a "stamp" to send an letter you just send an SMS to paid premium number and in reply you get a number which you just write on the envelope/card. In Poland you can get fancy stamps with your design on it etc.

(I've used to work at Polish Post IT department head office)

here's an idea

[ihtoit]

bulk mailers use franking machines which have internal counters that the post office uses to bill according to the number of times the machine has been used to issue a letter, and/or prepaid envelopes with printed postage, and for those who don't want or need that kind of expense, physical stamps that they use to apply the proper postage charge prior to dispatch. Also works for occasional posters.

Why fix what ain't broke??

Re:No postmark date?

[NotInHere]

They could post the stamps (or a merkle tree header of all stamps of the last hour) on the bitcoin blockchain, or any other (cryptographic) notary. Then nothing is "lost in the machine", and you don't have to trust the service's computers.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[BarbaraHudson]

Maybe you could actually read the article again:

The envelope or package that’s been sitting there for days, unsent.

The post office already allowed people to print up their own custom stamps for an extra fee. It bombed.

And there's no way that anyone is going to buy a laser etcher when mailing things is becoming obsolete.

The Canadian government has already told people that mailing payments will cease over the next few years.

Additionally, home delivery of the mail is being ended to most of the population. It's already stopped for 1/3 of the population, and the other 3rd that don't live in apartment buildings will be stopped over the next few years. Why the exception for apartment buildings? Because it saves Canada Post the cost of building and maintaining public mailbox collection stands.

There are plenty of competitors for parcel delivery - Canada Post already owns one of them - Purolator Courier.

The only things I've mailed this decade are registered mail - which requires a visit to a postal substation anyway. The post office is going to be dead before BSD.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[93 Escort Wagon]

Just because you don't send physical objects anymore does not mean everyone else does not.

That's a straw man. I send physical objects several times a year. When I do, I use UPS or FedEx because the Postal Service sucks at it. My expectation that the USPS will die does not mean package delivery has to die with it.

USPS's bread and butter has historically always been letters and bills. Nowadays that is rapidly drying up, so their bread and butter has become delivering advertisements to our houses. We don't really need to maintain a government funded agency for advertisement delivery.

RoyalMail solved problem

[PeteFox]

The Royal Mail in the UK has been selling stamps online for some years. Tell then the weight/size of your letter or parcel, pay the postage cost and you can print an address label with bar code. The only thing is you generally have to post it within a couple of days.

Re:POW! TH' FUTAR!

[fahrbot-bot]

you had me at LASER

I've now seen the future of mail and it's full of sharks, sending junk mail.

Luxury problem

[Mister Liberty]

Me, I'm still trying to sell the item in the first place.

Don't we already have this?

[TroubleMagnet]

You can already print your postage at home, on any printer. So, they're adding an expensive but fancy way to print and some kind of nebulous destination locating service. Oh, and an App. I forgot, everything is brand new it you tie it to a smartphone app.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[BarbaraHudson]

You can fax legal documents and keep the fax header as proof of service.

A quick search shows that the state of Utah allows alternate service by email or social media. A judge allowed the FTC to serve notice via facebook. New York allowed email service in 2006, and Australia allows it, and anther New York case of service via facebook was discussed on slashdot last month.

The old ways are dying. Requiring someone to buy a laser device to burn "stamps" onto envelopes and packages won't work.

99 44/100% fantasy

[craighansen]

This is pure advertising for the design house. The concept is fanciful and relies on the wacky conceit that we all have packages sitting around the house that we'd like to mark with a personal identifier logo and send without even knowing where it's going to be sent, how much it'll cost to send it, when it'll get there. The design centers on this wooden laser device that is 0.000001% of the system, and I'll bet the vast majority of the work went into making the touchy-feely acoustic guitar paying videos that hype the concept, designed to emulate the advertising of some fruity computer company.

The use case shown in the video, a gift, completely ignores the fact that in order to acquire a gift, I'd have to buy it first, so wouldn't I just have the store send it to my friend? Shouldn't this in be a box that'll handle the rigors of shipment without being damaged, or is it just fine to leave a gift box that any shmoe on the street can open and paw through before my friend opens the now-empty gift box?

Pffffft. Isn't this already built into my phone? Why can't I just scribble something - anything onto a box, take a picture of it with my phone, and have the same effect without the stupid wooden laser thingy that I have to keep charged just in case I have the whim to send a gift to a friend? The answer is that this is a design firm that wants to design stupid little wooden laser thingies and is trying to sell you their services.

yeah let's do that

[roc97007]

Let's create a brand new type of stamp and launch a taxpayer-funded initiative to upgrade every sorting machines. It'll only take a gazillion dollars, not be completed in any reasonable amount of time, and eventually abandoned.

Re:Too complicated

[roc97007]

...especially since you likely already have a laser printer, and therefore already have the ability to print stamps as needed.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[kosmosik]

> You can fax legal documents (...) the state of Utah (...) New York allowed (...) Australia allows it [cnet.com], and anther New York [etc.]

But you are you aware that lots of other countries than USA or Austrialia exist and such even tend to have precedent or non-precedent legal systems? I know that general tendency is to go to electronic means where possible but I am quite sure that there still are and still be situations in which the new/current ways are not possible and you need to keep the old system running to support them. For example how do you deliver legal papers to inmates who cannot use email or Facebook?

> Requiring someone to buy a laser device to burn "stamps" onto envelopes and packages won't work.

This I fully agree. The idea is so stupid I don't even know how it got here to Slashdot.

Simpler?

[superdave80]

Currently to send a letter I:

1. Put a stamp on the corner.

2. Write down the address where I want it to go.

3. (Optional) put one of my return address labels on it.

Their method

1. Have one of their laser burners put a 'stamp' on the envelope.

2. Pull up an app and scan my 'stamp'

3. Tell it where to go (either through my contacts or by manually inputting it).

I don't see how this is 'simpler'...

Non-Issue

[pubwvj]

We don't need another 'stamp' (alreadying being done multiple ways) but the fears in this /. article are also unfounded and based on a lack of understanding of how the US Postal System operates. The stamp gets read at the start. Once it is into the system it is fine.

Re:Non-Issue

[Teresita]

The Postal Service has discontinued the new Obama stamp, too many people were spitting on the wrong side.

Re:No postmark date?

[ShanghaiBill]

The main problem with electronic stamp creation currently is the lack of a postmark date stamp from the postal service.

99.9% of the mail I receive is either metered or printed with a bulk permit. Neither of these is postmarked by the postal service.

That means that the item can be lost for any length of time without any accountability, just lost in the machine.

How does a postmark provide accountability? If you want to track the package or certify delivery, that is an extra charge, and an extra sticker.

Anyway, I read TFA, and I still don't understand what "problem" they are trying to solve. Normal stamps seem to work pretty well for me, for the two or three times a year that I mail a letter.

Re:Is there a fake stamp blackmarket?

[mendax]

I've wondered about that myself given that the stamps the post office uses today look like some of the Christmas and Easter Seals I remember putting on greeting cards as a kid. As I recall from some discussion I had many years ago, the postage processing machinery actually does not know exactly how much postage is on the envelope. All it really knows is that there is some kind of stamp there and that it has not been canceled. I'm not sure how metered mail is processed but there must be a reason why the post office would prefer that metered mail not be mixed in with stamped mail.

So, the answer is probably "yes", you could fake stamps but if you did how much money would you really save by doing it? You'd be better of running off some tens and twenties on the local Kinko's color copier.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[mendax]

if you have an invoice or legal paper you can send deliver it yourself, you can send it by private held company like TNT, UPS, whatever but only when you send it via Polish Post (national operator) it gets so called the power of postal stamp. Legally if you choose the right delivery type it is valid as delivery in court. Such postage is still deeply embodied in legal system and I think it has some merit.

Exactly. In the U.S., many federal and state laws assume that the United States Postal Service will be there. Furthermore, the day the item is postmarked is, for most legal documents, considered to be the day the court receives it. Thus, if you have to have something filed by a certain date, you can delay (like most people do) and wait until the absolute last minute, run to the post office, and get a manual postmark put on the envelope, the only way you're going to get a guaranteed legible one in the U.S. Furthermore, courts rely upon the postal service to deliver legal mail. Federal courts allow you to file legal paperwork (as well as get copies of it) online and some state courts are slowly moving in this direction, but there will always have to be a way to get a piece of paper to someone who is a luddite or, is in jail or prison and does not have access to the Internet, and vice versa, since Americans have a constitutional right to access to the courts.

Complete waste

[ITRambo]

Because... lasers are freaking cool. Postage etched with lasers. How long before a postal worker turns the lasers on everyone on the room?

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[BarbaraHudson]

Requiring someone to buy a laser device to burn "stamps" onto envelopes and packages won't work.

This I fully agree. The idea is so stupid I don't even know how it got here to Slashdot.

You must be new here. (checks uid) Nope. Oh well, welcome to our new DICE overlords :-(

Re:Is there a fake stamp blackmarket?

[BarbaraHudson]

The last time a TV show mailed 100 letters with obviously fake stamps, 7 got through. Considering the cost of envelopes, paper, and printing, not a very good ROI.

Re:Too complicated

[BarbaraHudson]

... especially since you likely already have a laser printer, and therefore already have the ability to print stamps as needed.

Have you tried to print just ONE label? What a waste of time and labels ...

Besides, just because someone has a smartphone doesn't mean they own a laser printer. With less and less need for hard copies to physically mail stuff, many people have to borrow some luddite's printer nowadays.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[Jarik C-Bol]

Thats just it, we don't fund it. While it is mandated by the constitution to exist, and overseen to some degree by congress, which is why postage has barely crept up, because it is locked to the inflation rate, and can only be pushed beyond that with approval from a regulatory commission. So the postal service is required to fund itself. While congress has occasionally allotted certain funds towards the postal service for special situations (related to disabled and overseas voters mainly) It is meant to be a self sufficient agency of the government. Honestly, the fact that I can sent an envelope full of paper from Florida to Alaska for less than a dollar describes a hilariously broken system, and highlights the fact that the reason the postal service operated at a 4.8 billion dollar loss in 2012 is because the cost of mailing anything has been kept artificially low. I cant FedEx *anything* for a dollar. If the USPS could operate with a pricing scheme that was commercially viable, then it would not have these problems. And of course, having working capital would probably open up new avenues to expand and develop greater service. the USPS is basically any other carrier, only wearing a gimp mask and chained to the governments desk.

Already exists

[mattwarden]

The use case is sending a letter when you have a wifi connection is already handled. See: gmail.com for more info

Re:No postmark date?

[gl4ss]

but it has more accountability than a simple stamping of a date? and what good does that date stamp do while it is in transit for years?

like, how do you know it is even stamped? if there's an unique code in your stamp and that qrcode gets scanned in, then at least it is scanned in and potentially could have information available to you about it's state. something simple stamping would not give. ...but... about this device... why the need for a laser burner when a simple printer does the job? or why no just do stamps like us ps machines have been giving away for years, with qrcodes. just scan the code in your stamp, put the letter in the mail and use the app to see the state of your delivery..

Startup money must be cheap these days

[prefec2]

There are four types of stamp uses and realizations mostly used in public. For adverts, they print a tag on the advert. For business letters with these little windows, they print it in the address field. For parcels you can print out a sheet and glue it in a parcel. And for the personal letter or postcard you mostly use lovely designed stamps. As I already have a printer, why shall I buy a device for stamps? And by the way I can even send an email to the post office and they will make a letter out of it including stamps. What is now the correct advantage of this new device?

Re:No postmark date?

[smooth wombat]

I still don't understand what "problem" they are trying to solve.

You're missing the point. This isn't about solving a problem, it's about using technology. It doesn't have to solve a problem so long as technology is involved.

Even better, you get to use a laser!

Re:No postmark date?

[tompaulco]

This isn't about solving a problem, it's about using technology. It doesn't have to solve a problem so long as technology is involved.

This. I am tired of people using technology just because, even if it is less efficient than doing it the old fashioned way. Texting is a great example of billions of hours wasted on conversations that could have been over and done in seconds otherwise. Metro interface is another example where a UI that is efficient on something with no better alternative input methods is forced on a platform that has much more preferable and efficient input methods.
At least we have to give companies credit for believing in their own technology. The AT&T store uses tablets to assist their customers. It would be much faster to do so on a desktop, but they are attempting to make people believe that the technology can be used for stuff like that so the people will buy it. And it CAN be used for purposes like that, just not very efficiently. I had to sit with a friend at one of these stores for about an hour while a guy attempted to perform a simple transaction (obtain a new SIM card) on the pad, and eventually he went to one of the desktops and 5 minutes later we were done.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[JesseMcDonald]

I cant FedEx *anything* for a dollar.

Of course not. Thanks to the Private Express Statutes, FedEx can't legally deliver ordinary letters unless USPS postage is paid on top of its own delivery rate. The system is deliberately set up such that no one can compete effectively with the USPS.

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[Jarik C-Bol]

While at the same time, by undercutting everyone by miles, the USPS is assured its eventual collapse. So I guess Postal Service Reform would be a decent platform to run for office on?

Re:Give it another decade - the problem will solve

[neoritter]

The post office is not being operated in the red because mail is cheap. It has to do with their outdated updated pension rules.

Re:I have a better idea

[craighansen]

Good thing no-one could hack or clone your toll transponder or clipper card, right?

http://www.technologyreview.co...

http://www.sfweekly.com/2012-0...
http://www.akit.org/2012/02/ha...

For your proposal, how to do prevent someone from photocopying the "something on a letter or package which identifies me"? For my counterproposal, I suggested (above) that you scribble something unique and take a picture of it (uploading the picture using your account credentials as identification of the package), producing a one-time code that isn't allowed to be reused.

Re:No postmark date?

[RockDoctor]

Even better, you get to use a laser!

I find lasers very problematic. It's not the laser per se that's the problem, it's the bloody great tank of seawater that splashes around all over the place from the shark that the laser is mounted on. Seawater and stuff I want to post isn't a good mixture.

Again a dumb idea

[MoarSauce123]

Millions of people preserve history beyond just postal history by collecting and categorizing postal stamps from all over the world. These new digital stamps are as horrible as postage meters, they destroy not just a past time for many, but also eradicate an incredible means of documenting and preserving history.