Slashdot Mirror
Proposed Penalty For UK Hackers Who "Damage National Security": Life
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from The Guardian: Government plans that mean computer users deemed to have damaged national security, the economy or the environment will face a life sentence have been criticised by experts who warn that the new law could be used to target legitimate whistleblowers. The proposed legislation would mean that any British person deemed to have carried out an unauthorised act on a computer that resulted in damage to human welfare, the environment, the economy or national security in any country would face a possible life sentence. Last week the Joint Committee on Human Rights raised concerns about the proposals and the scope of such legislation.
Government plans that mean computer users deemed to have damaged national security, the economy or the environment will face a life sentence have been criticised by experts who warn that the new law could be used to target legitimate whistleblowers.
Could be? Come on - targeting whistleblowers is the point. It's not about damaging national security, the economy or the environment - it's about damaging somebody's political career.
Do you have ESP?
They use computers and they have damaged a lot more than national security. Now, go away for life.
If you attack an industrial system at a utility and make a bunch of people sick or die, even if it was "unintentional" you should get life. Why? You had no damn business being there. Even if you're an aspie with boundless curiosity, there has to be a consequence for breaking into sensitive systems and inflicting real, measurable harm to the public.
Though of course we know that's not how this will probably be used.
deemed to have carried out an unauthorised act on a computer that resulted in damage to human welfare, the environment, the economy or national security in any country would face a possible life sentence
While authorised actions with similar results will probably result in increased wealth, status or both.
deemed to have carried out an unauthorised act on a computer
I know this is a radical idea, and I'm just spitballing here, but maybe the part about unauthorized act being done a computer should be a hint. If it's not your computer or your system, don't try to get into it.
Or are we going to use excuses as to why it's acceptable to try and get into someone else's equipment when you're not supposed to then whine about the penalty when you're found out?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
So Bankers that damage the world economy face no time in jail and no fines, but the whistle blower can get life?
Sounds about right for this messed up world.
But I thought this is only legislation that the US government would try to pass. At least that's what the average Youre-a-peein claims when trying to act superior.
Good luck arresting the whole chinese army information warfare battalion.
This is bound to end well for all the peons... I mean, citizens.
Doesn't the amount of energy that our computers use and the landfill space they take up once they are obsolete damage the environment? I guess we all get life.
That song you downloaded hurts the economy! Life in prison!
Some might see this as a way to enforce an agenda. The definition of "damage of the environment" could be "use a computer" since the electricity comes partly from fossil fuels, and as such is "damage". These types of laws may have good intentions, but the unintentional (or hidden) effects can be scary.
>The proposed legislation would mean that any British person deemed to have carried out an unauthorised act on a computer that resulted in damage to human welfare...
Pedophiles who aren't guilty of anything other than possessing images or video could end up with a life sentence.
Considering a man recently got locked up for possessing cartoon porn (though admittedly, it's supposedly his second time getting caught with fictional stuff), I could easily see this abused I'm a "clean up" effort in the UK.
Source for the story of that man. I'm unaware of the legitimacy of this site, if it's a fake or just outright bullshit feel free to completely ignore this.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/manga-anime-fans-warned-after-british-man-convicted-possessing-cartoon-child-porn-1471040
Castration is on the table.
Act II of the Tyranny Conversion begins.
Everyone is a criminal now as long as we come up with even a flimsy claim against them....
The problem with this law is that it will later be abused by whatever party or coalition is in power at the next election. Nobody has an issue with jailing people for life if they've intruded upon a secure network with the intent to cause damage or inconvenience, but the scope of the law's potential application is so broad it will ensare mostly innocuous behaviour if the government of the day decides it wants to be seen as tough on crime.
Terrorists? Jail them for life. Whistleblowers? All major parties publicly encourage whistleblowers in the NHS and so on, so why should the Tory/Lib-Dem coalition get away with passing a law which criminalises their whistleblowing?
...any British person deemed to have carried out an unauthorised act on a computer that resulted in damage to human welfare, the environment, the economy or national security in any country would face a possible life sentence.
What about politicians that do the same thing? Oh, I guess that would an "authorized" act. Never mind.
[ Man, oh man, if we could jail politicians for damaging the economy, environment or human welfare here in the U.S. ...]
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
The UK reminds me that at least compared to the Brits the USA is a veritable land of freedom! Deal with it, mate.
For a general strike and get the corrupted gov out of our societies
Is what it turns out to be. To die in prison.
Isn't there already a law for killers in UK?
Either way you are crazy.
Sorry you just violated the terms of service for slashdot subparagraph 2 section 198. Didn't you read it? Well you should have, because now you are going to jail for the rest of your life because your post was not authorized.
But you are right, probably the law will only be used against people that really piss the authorities off so as long as you don't also jaywalk or send an angry letter to your local officials about the money they are stealing from you will be okay.
Eric Holder gave a televised interview in which he credited a whistle blower at a bank for allowing the bank executives to be held to account for their part in making money off liar's loans. The reporter missed the obvious follow-up question to Holder, "So whistleblowers are good?"
Seeing how all sorts of information is deemed "national security" just posting the exact number of wiretaps could get you imprisoned for life ?
As for the "with a computer" angle ? In the current time-and-age where communicating with other people by computer seems to have largely replaced face-to-face conversations as well as good-old telephony ? They might as well have included "or talking about it".
There already are consequences. Why add more consequences artificially? If it's really an accident then it's an accident. You don't really think people should be punished for an accident do you? What happens if you accidently did damage? Or do you seriously think that you couldn't possibly do damage by accident?
What about white hat hacking?
"damage to human welfare, the environment, the economy or national security in any country"
First note that it allows for damaging the national security in any country. So the UK is now the world police? Hey, I thought that was the USA's job! Also, does that mean they will protect ISIL? Or North Korea? Does that mean when the government of South Korea attempts to defend itself from a cyberattack from North Korea, they are violating the UK's law? It's damaging the National Security of North Korea by preventing them from undermining South Korea!
Human welfare, the environment, the economy or National security pretty much covers ANYTHING. And the word damage is similarly vague.
When I use Hack BP's computer and find out they are illegally dumping oil in Scotland, isn't that damaging the economy by revealing BP's crime?
When the FBI pretends to be a criminal on Facebook, isn't that damaging the 'welfare" of the human criminal?
This is a law designed to let the UK selectively arrest anyone who does anything on a computer that is 'unauthorised'.
Worst law ever
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
"any British person deemed to have carried out an unauthorised act on a computer... ....in any country"
This widens the legal basis to lock up most of the UK government, parliament and secret services for good, as well as many foreign (mostly US) government employees. When will the trials start?
... How do I go about opposing this?
Just like there are different "levels" of theft and manslaughter/murder, there should be different levels of "damaging national security."
The penalty should be based on the harm done, the intent, and if applicable, the degree of recklessness.
Also, existing charges should be used instead of this charge where applicable. For example,if I harm national security with the intent of exposing someone to grave danger and they die as a result, then a murder or similar charge is more appropriate than a charge of "damaging national security."
That said, I can see some rare, hypothetical situations where a crime that comes under the umbrella of "damaging national security" charge could rightfully deserve a life sentence. However, like the various "levels" of a murder charge, the "levels" of a "damaging national security" charge need to be defined as separate crimes with different "elements" that the prosecution would need to prove.
Regarding whistle-blowers - there needs to be some formal process to encourage responsible whistle-blowing, while not encouraging malicious, dubious "whistle-blowing" (e.g. you are mad at your boss, so you look for nit-picky violations knowing that by merely reporting anything your "whistle-blower" status will mean you will win big money in a lawsuit if you are fired in the next year or two).
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
>Government plans that mean computer users deemed to have damaged national security
>deemed
Not vague, not vague at all...
Government plans that mean computer users deemed to have damaged [...] the economy [...]
So, filesharing is now a life sentence in the UK?
Well if it is true that filesharing is actually a good thing, that means not doing it gets you life.
And what if it prevents harm to national security but causes economic harm? Life both ways, I say!
So if your boss and your bosses bosses are acting in ways that you deem inapropriate and in violation of their duties to the citizens of the UK you're better off killling them now than exposing them. You might get off in just a few years.
I understand they have this institution, instead of normal countries who only have a parliament, but doesn't this mean it's just a random suggestion floated by an upper class twit of some sort and the legislative/judges basically politely saying "sorry, no, you're quite off the map as far as the legal system goes, quite naturally because you are utterly incompetent at it, but feel free to try again as is your legal prerogative."?
> experts who warn that the new law could be used to target whoever the fuck they want
Shouting "treason!" isn't just analogous, the definition is actually similar.
I miss the days of planting drugs in someone's bag. At least that took a little more work than effortless accusations that are instantly valid.
I think it is too harsh. They should kick them out of the country... Transport them all! For example, Australia.... O wait...
and one that should be avoided at all costs. If you live there, move before it is too late. Same applies to its little brother Australia. Not that the US is any great shakes either but we probably have another 10 to 20 years before sinking to the same depths.
Looking at girls in bathing suits and blowing the whistle on illegal government activity can land you in the slammer in the UK. Pretty much 1984; oh and they are working on free speech too.
Why is this only being limited to acts "on a computer"? If they feel so strongly about it, why doesn't it apply to any such act regardless of a computer being involved?
Twinstiq, game news
I see goodthink is progressing doubleplusgood on Airstrip One. Anyone who commits thoughtcrime should become an unperson.
Proverbs 21:19
Government plans that mean astronauts deemed to have damaged national security, the economy or the environment will face a life-suspension sentence have been criticised by experts who warn that the new law could be used to target legitimate whistleblowers. The proposed legislation would mean that any British person deemed to have carried out an unauthorised act in space that resulted in damage to human welfare, the environment, the economy or national security on any celestial body would face a possible life-suspension sentence. Last week the Joint Committee on Sentient Creatures Rights raised concerns about the proposals and the scope of such legislation.
Ok, the piece pointed to here paints a very narrow picture. Let's imagine a scenario whereby "cyber-attacker X" takes over an air-traffic control system and starts crashing planes for ransom. I can see the argument that that's a life-worthy crime. (not sure how "life" is defined) The devil is in the details.
Can we pass a law that says any politician passing a law must first be investigated by an independent organization to see if that politician is breaking that law?
Maybe life in prison will teach some of these half wits that writing overly broad laws isn't a good idea.
"There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics"
Arguably, the act of attempting to log in to a computer causes that machine to use power that would have otherwise not been used. Generating power harms the environment (CO2 etc) so any login (failed or otherwise) to any computer (even your own!) may render you guilty.
Simplest would be to build a wall round the entire British Isles and redefine it as a prison...
A law that sweeping surely is the result of law makers having a fit of temper. And it is senseless. Put it on a scale with someone like George w. Bush who helped wreck millions of lives with ignorant political behaviour and ruined America's world image with the torture of POWs. Look at the harm that fool did and he was not punished one bit. Then consider the harm that ronald reagen did with the whacked out notion of trickle down economics and all the harm that was done. Or consider Richard Nixon and his illegal acts for which he was never punished. Then stack them up against some twit who hacks into some site and spills information which should be public anyway and they want to give him life. The sense of proportion and justice in the US and most of the western world has become so demented, so irrational and so bigoted that I am at the point of asking if society should ever be allowed to punish anyone at all no matter what they do. Our legislators and judges have become no better than drooling lunatics motivated by spastic emotions and ignorance.
child molestors who destroy (or murder) kids lives, get off after X years.
Tax evaders get off after X years.
Murderers get off after X years.
But hackers get life?
What's up with that shit?
Have fun with your police state in UK & USA.
Who will they send to jail for life when a corporations like Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, Oracle, Google, Mozilla release known buggy and insecure software to get it out the door and patch later? That sure in hell is national security issue.
Jack of all trades,master of none
Any "act on a computer" consumes electricity, hence damages the environment. And any web-site I visit has not specifically "authorized" me to do so, so in some sense it is "unauthorized" (yet usually welcome). Pretty nifty. I guess they want to rescue the collapsing British economy by creating a huge prison industry.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
"I am more free than you!" said the police state to the totalitarian one. Not that they are fully there yet, but the path is clear and history tells us it will be walked to the bitter end.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
>that resulted in damage to human welfare, the environment, the economy or national security in any country
so programming would give you a life sentence?
oh wait they said 'unauthorised act'
- I didn't authorise you to put bugs in the software - life in jail for you...
IN old england, the prisons became so over crowded they started using the rotting hulks of navy ships as prisons and as that became full they resorted to "transportation" which basically meant you get a one way ticket to help settle australia. (see book "the Fatal Shore"). Now that mars transport is about to approach feasibility ans Elon Musk says we need vast numbers of people for sustainable living I'm shocked the UK govt isn't sentencing these hackers to Transportation.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Why only life in prison?
Maybe first time offenders could have their eyes gouged out? Or finger nails pulled out with pliers.
Maybe electroshock treatment if they are under age, because sending a 13 year old for life in prison is quite a bit different than sending a 33 year old for life in prison.
If they deface the website of a prominent person, then tar and feathers or ride them out on a rail. Both of those persisted into the modern era in the US, I don't see why the UK can't reuse old practices.
I'm not sure any of this is an effective deterrent, because most people don't plan on getting caught. But at least politicians, judges and prosecutors(or whatever the British equivalent is) can pat themselves on the back for a job well done. Protecting everyone from everything from big bad evil hackers to whistle-blowers who rock the boat.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
So it's basically carte blanche for anyone with a job in in politics, law enforcement, or prosecution to destroy the life of anyone they choose, based on nothing more than conjecture. Does anyone else find this frightening? Would the dangers of this idea be more obvious if the words "computer users" or "hackers" were replaced with the word "people"?
I believe, although I can't verify this at present, that the law has come from MPs -in particular that bellicose fuckwit Teresa may. Furthermore, the house of lords is unwilling to accept the legislation as written, precisely die to its imprecise wording. I agree that there are some drawbacks related to the HoL, but in many cases they perform a useful check against short-termist politicos
This is why I'm gonna stay out of the UK forever, they seem to be even more backwards than the morons in charge here in the US!
Computer.
(And I keep repeating myself).
That we died to get away from.
It's also the government that so many tyranny seekers point to as the desired state in which the US must transition. A helpless disarmed population, and a government with no limits.
This law basically gives the government the right to imprison anyone for life who is online doing anything they decide they oppose. One-button tyranny.
"No good deed goes unpunished"
When they say "economy", do they mean the actual economy, the combined production of wealth in a society, or 'the economy', the euphemism for the bank accounts of the wealthy?
(It's a rhetorical question.)
it's called Treason. It's also very, very hard to prove. This is just an attempt to get around those laws so they can punish people without all the red tape of due process.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I was thinking more along the lines of something like having the convicted party drawn and quartered, staked out on an ant hill (fire ants preferably), garroted, etc. The potential punishment needs to be a real deterrent; not whiling away the years in some minimum security resort.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
The internet is a public publishing arena. What is this authorization, and why would I need to know what you think that is?
So a government policy that was written by someone on a computer which resulted in damage to national security, the economy or the environment (hmm, there might be a few of those) can now result in life?
[goes looking for some politicians to imprison]
This could be the fate of Special Ed (when Russia is finally done with him and deems him no longer useful).