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Stan Lee Media and Disney Battle For Ownership of Marvel Characters

An anonymous reader writes "Stan Lee Media and The Walt Disney Co. have taken their arguments to the U.S. Court of Appeals over who owns the rights (and profits) to Marvel characters. Though Disney bought Marvel in 2009, Stan Lee Media (no longer associated with Stan Lee, himself) still claims copyright of the characters."

32 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. Skimpiest article ever by halivar · · Score: 4, Informative

    No details, nothing about transfer of copyrights, proof of who is successor of interest, nothing. I RTFA and found the summary is pretty much all there is to know. Anyone got a more informative link?

    1. Re:Skimpiest article ever by ganjadude · · Score: 3, Funny

      you read the article?!?!?! you are aware this is slashdot right?

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      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:Skimpiest article ever by Compholio · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not a lot better, but some: http://www.denverpost.com/news...

  2. We can be certain of one thing by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Informative

    The actual people who came up with the characters definitely don't own them.

    Thanks, pro-corporate copyright laws and contracts!

    1. Re:We can be certain of one thing by Russ1642 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The actual people who came up with the characters sold them for money.

    2. Re:We can be certain of one thing by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I pay you to create something why would you own it? If you want to own your copyrights then don't sell them.

    3. Re:We can be certain of one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >If I pay you to create something why would you own it?

      Millions of Americans who have professional wedding photos would like to know.

    4. Re:We can be certain of one thing by XanC · · Score: 3, Insightful

      THAT is a huge scam.

    5. Re:We can be certain of one thing by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Crucial distinction:

      They lost rights to everything they came up with in perpetuity as a standard contract of their employment. I view such heavy handed contracts quite dimly as a result of unbalanced employment negotiation.

    6. Re:We can be certain of one thing by tomhath · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's quite common today for the photographer to assign the copyright to the couple and give them all of the photographs in digital format. The days of "pay me for every print" are thankfully over.

    7. Re:We can be certain of one thing by chispito · · Score: 2

      They lost rights to everything they came up with

      see, here you're missing "while employed there"

      in perpetuity as a standard contract of their employment. I view such heavy handed contracts quite dimly as a result of unbalanced employment negotiation.

      --
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    8. Re:We can be certain of one thing by dmomo · · Score: 2

      I create programs for an employer. Should that be treated any differently than other works?

    9. Re:We can be certain of one thing by bondsbw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      By that logic, the burger flipper at McDonald's should be able to pocket all the money McDonald's brings in.

      Don't ignore the fact that the employee's contribution is only a small component to the success of the business. Just because someone comes up with cool superhero drawings doesn't mean he alone also brings those to market, negotiates comic book, movie, TV, and other licensing deals, creates the content and publishes that content, or any of the hundreds of other jobs that go into the production including managing payroll, paying bills, etc.

      --
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    10. Re:We can be certain of one thing by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      Apples and oranges, logically.

      By that logic, the burger flipper at McDonald's should be able to pocket all the money McDonald's brings in.

      Only if the burger flipper in question was also the person who invented Big Macs or Chicken McNuggets.

    11. Re:We can be certain of one thing by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you build your employer a piece of software that ends up making hundreds of millions of dollars wouldn't you feel entitled to some of that wealth?

      No. You utilized their assets to build said software, charged them money, and agreed to it. Deal with it. Just because you lacked the vision to see that software making piles of cash, don't blame others because they have bigger vision then you do.

      --
      There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    12. Re:We can be certain of one thing by nahpets77 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In many cases the employees get a share of the wealth through stock options, RUS, stock purchase plans etc. If you want the whole pie then you should start your own company and work for yourself.

    13. Re:We can be certain of one thing by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      Just pick anybody that is not of the incumbent party(republican/democrat). Just make it a clean sweep, and that will wake everybody up for the next round. Vote for business as usual, and that is what you will get, and I will mock your complaints again.

      Two problems with this:

      1) Republicans and Democrats expect the other party to take over from time to time. Vote all of Party #1 out and they'll just wait their turn for Party #2 to be thrown out. What they really don't want is for some third party to muck up the little duopoly they've secured for themselves.

      2) The party in power will often redraw the district lines to help keep their party in power. To overcome this, you would need many, many voters banding together. How likely are you to get tens of millions of Americans to go along with your "Vote against the incumbent even if the other Major Party candidate is against everything you are for" plan? Very unlikely, I'd wager. It's more likely that you and a small group will do this and not get noticed at all as the rest of the voters cast their votes based on policy preferences or party alliance.

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    14. Re:We can be certain of one thing by Russ1642 · · Score: 2

      McDonalds has plenty of chefs that create their menu items. If you invent the McHaggis you don't get paid for every single McHaggis sold. You probably get your salary and that's it. Any chef could have created that same McHaggis but it takes an entire industry of people to market it, source the ingredients, manage the company, train the minimum wagers how to nuke it in a microwave, etc. So NO, the inventor of the Big Mac shouldn't be paid simply because they 'invented' a damn hamburger.

    15. Re:We can be certain of one thing by camperdave · · Score: 2

      I ran cable for internet connections. Where's my cut of the action?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    16. Re:We can be certain of one thing by jsepeta · · Score: 2

      this NEVER happens in the comic industry. unless your name is Todd McFarlane

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    17. Re:We can be certain of one thing by ScepticOne · · Score: 2

      Yep, we can definitely be certain of one thing. We just don't know what that one thing actually is...

  3. Background material: by bmajik · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

    Short Version: Stan Lee has had nothing to do with SLM for over a decade - since his former friend and co-founder fled to South America to avoid federal securities fraud prosecution.

    SLM is currently a few leeches who have nothing to do with the comics industry are trying to sink their claws into the profits of the creative class.

    I understand that creative people need money to work, and the entities that front that money are due a return on their investment.

    That's not what's going on here.

    --
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    1. Re:Background material: by tazan · · Score: 4, Informative

      If I read the wiki correctly. The company went bankrupt, new owners took over and sued Marvel for a piece of the pie. Kind of like a lottery ticket: not much chance of winning, but the payoff is huge. They lost. Second group did the same thing, The third group which apparently is some kind of hedge fund did the same thing. This is their appeal. So not really related to Stan Lee or anyone originally at Stan Lee Media.

  4. And people who write software by Crashmarik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't usually own the copyright to the code, when they are doing it for another company.
    I get you aren't happy with the balance of power in this but remember the people who created those characters actually did give up their rights to them for payment. If you want to change the laws to give them greater protection consider you may actually be taking away their ability to sell their work and make a living.

    1. Re:And people who write software by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Informative

      Does Keanu Reeves own the copyright for Edward Scissorhands? No.

      Certainly not, but that's mostly because Keanu Reeves had nothing to do with that movie.

      Johnny Depp, on the other hand, almost certainly still gets royalties for his performance.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:And people who write software by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Informative

      It seems obvious to me that the person who came up with the idea and directed it's creation is the copyright holder.

      It's really a matter of directing its creation. Mere ideas aren't copyrightable, and merely coming up with one doesn't matter. If you use someone else's idea but are the only creative participant, they won't get rights in tor work.

      And if you direct creation, you don't have to be the person who literally brings it about, either. But this is more than just paying someone a commission, or giving them the basic idea. It means that the other active participant isn't contributing anything creative.

      So for example, if you tell a photographer that you want a photo of some subject, the photographer will end up being the author. If you tell him exactly what camera settings to use, what lighting, choose the subject, pose the subject, etc., then you're engaging in authorship.

      . Likewise, if I hire someone to take wedding photos, then the photo copyrights are mine, as I commissioned the person to take them.

      No, they're not. Being the author means having sole artistic control. Being a joint author would involve two parties having artistic control, and an intent to produce a joint work. And a work for hire, in which authorship is attributed to an employer requires more than merely commissioning a work. It requires actual employment, with all the relevant indicia (tax forms, insurance, providing the tools and work area, etc.) or in a handful of cases, contractual language.

      You might be interested in Burrow-Giles Lithographic Co. v. Sarony and Community for Creative Non-Violence v. Reid.

      Does Keanu Reeves own the copyright for Edward Scissorhands? No.

      I think you mean Johnny Depp.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    3. Re:And people who write software by neoritter · · Score: 3

      Apologies, wires were crossed when I picked Keanu Reeves and Edward Scissorhands.

      He'd get royalties of the movie sales, etc. But, that's whatever is specified in his contract. It's not because he owns the copyright to Edward Scissorhands as depicted in the movie. If the studios decided to make a sequel to the movie, then they could even though Johnny Depp doesn't want to do it. They could hire some other schmuck to play the part.

  5. Wedding Photography by jsrjsr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My wife and I own the copyright to our wedding photos taken over 25 years ago and have the negatives. Nearly all of the photographers we talked to at the time were still in the old model where they owned the copyright -- especially the older ones. The younger ones were beginning to switch to the new model where the customer owns the copyright.

    There are still numerous photographers that stick to the old model because they think it makes them more money. Kind of an interesting belief given the number of people who never have more prints made. Seems to me that you'd make more money just by charging extra for the negatives or digital files.

  6. Re:Disney never lose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's not Stan Lee. It's Stan Lee's ex-company Stan Lee Media whom is currently completely unaffiliated with Stan Lee.

    Stan Lee needs to sue Stan Lee Media so that Stan Lee can have the rights to the Stan Lee Media name again.

  7. Re:Ah, the irony... by kesuki · · Score: 2

    "Actually, they have. 14 years + one 14 year renewal; and even that was too long."

    i think you should have checked the facts. 'The Act extended these terms to life of the author plus 70 years and for works of corporate authorship to 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication, whichever endpoint is earlier.'
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
    this means that in 2019 some 1923 copyrighted materials will hit the public domain. if they aren't extended before then.

  8. Re:what a showboat by PCM2 · · Score: 2

    What is really sad if the inventor of Wolverine or any of the original characters were to draw and post them online to sell, perhaps in retirement for extra cash they'd be sued into bankruptcy.

    Totally false. I'm not sure there's a single pro who won't take commissions. Many publish and sell sketchbooks full of drawings of characters owned by companies; nothing happens. If they were to try to sell actually comics stories featuring the companies' characters, that would probably get noticed very quickly, but just drawing characters has never been considered a big deal.

    --
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  9. Re:what a showboat by Hodr · · Score: 2

    I was part of the group that stood in line for a week for the original X-Men opening in Hollywood, CA (a hold-over from the popularity of the Star Wars lines).

    One day this homeless looking guy (one of many, possibly hundreds, that we saw during the week) came by with a wolverine hat on and told us that he had invented the character. We humored him, but none of us took him seriously. A couple days later Bryan Singer stops by to say high, sees this guy in the background, and pulls him to the front of the line to tell us that the guy invented Wolverine. Oops.

    That whole experience was frought with cringe though. Before I had been introduced to Bryan, he knocked my dreamcast off of the TV (ok, we weren't exactly roughing it) and I yelled at him for a solid 2-3 minutes. I also spent some time arguing with an old man about Star Trek, who turned out to be Harlan Ellison. To be fair, he didn't tell me who he was (I would have recognized the name, though I didn't know what he looked like).