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Labor Department To Destroy H-1B Records

Presto Vivace writes H-1B records that are critical to research and take up a small amount of storage are set for deletion. "In a notice posted last week, the U.S. Department of Labor said that records used for labor certification, whether in paper or electronic, 'are temporary records and subject to destruction' after five years, under a new policy. There was no explanation for the change, and it is perplexing to researchers. The records under threat are called Labor Condition Applications (LCA), which identify the H-1B employer, worksite, the prevailing wage, and the wage paid to the worker. The cost of storage can't be an issue for the government's $80 billion IT budget: A full year's worth of LCA data is less than 1GB."

42 of 190 comments (clear)

  1. US Citizenship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once H1-Bs get used to working for peanuts to fulfill their "American dream", the next step is give them US citizenship so government can say "see, US workers are willing to work for less," then use the lowest common denminator to set wages.

    1. Re:US Citizenship by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The government of the United States of America is behaving very much like an accomplice to a crime

      Their unexplained decision to delete EVERY.SINGLE.RECORD regrading the H1-B program is tantamount of the DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE !

      How can the Americans allow their government to turn so rogue, so fast ?

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    2. Re:US Citizenship by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People wanted change and they got it. I hope they enjoy every single inch.

      --
      "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    3. Re:US Citizenship by NotDrWho · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The government of the United States of America is behaving very much like an accomplice to a crime

      I wonder if the founding fathers ever could have imagined a world where the government they created would be completely owned and controlled by an oligarchy of huge corporations. Could they have imagined a government where something akin to the Dutch East India Company simply walked in and individually bribed every single Congressman and the President to do their bidding, without the American people even realizing it?

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    4. Re:US Citizenship by KermodeBear · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because Americans are no longer educated about their government or their history, and as long as they can catch the latest episode of Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo they really don't care about what is happening. Those of us who DO care and pay attention are in the extreme minority. No matter how loudly we shout about the problems we're racing into, the rest of America looks at as like we're some crazy conspiracy theorists.

      It doesn't help that many of the large news outlets are government sycophants, refusing to carry news that may damage the current administration. Note that this behavior is not limited to CBS or our current administration. They're all corrupt to some degree.

      But yeah, nobody gives a shit, give them some Soma, all is well. Aldous Huxly was right.

      --
      Love sees no species.
    5. Re:US Citizenship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do you say "the alternative", when there were "alternatives".

      THIS is the major problem in America, people who think there are only 2 options, Demcrap or Republicunt.

      There ARE other alternatives, and while not mainstream, I bet if we were to elect them in place of these 2 failed organizations goons or goonettes, it would be a wake up call to those corrupt groups.

      Edward Snowden for President!!!

    6. Re:US Citizenship by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Could they have imagined a government where something akin to the Dutch East India Company simply walked in and individually bribed every single Congressman and the President to do their bidding, without the American people even realizing it?

      What makes you think the $(nationality) East India Companies didn't bribe their respective governments?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    7. Re:US Citizenship by marcello_dl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > People wanted change and they didn't get it.
      FTFY

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    8. Re:US Citizenship by kheldan · · Score: 2

      This whole 'H1B' thing is becoming an outright crime against the people of the U.S.. All you hear is 'the U.S. economy is rebounding' but people are still out of work and the people who are working are still scratching to get by. Meanwhile asshole companies cry that they 'can't find qualified workers in the U.S.' as an excuse to hire foreign workers who will work for a fraction of what a U.S. citizen would be paid, all so their bottom line looks better. Drag these bastards out into the streets and shoot them like the dogs they are, for fucking over their own country.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    9. Re:US Citizenship by Jawnn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The government of the United States of America is behaving very much like an accomplice to a crime

      I wonder if the founding fathers ever could have imagined a world where the government they created would be completely owned and controlled by an oligarchy of huge corporations. Could they have imagined a government where something akin to the Dutch East India Company simply walked in and individually bribed every single Congressman and the President to do their bidding, without the American people even realizing it?

      I think that many of them "realize" it, but they've been convinced that bullshit issues like gay marriage and reproductive choice are more important to them.

    10. Re:US Citizenship by Enigma2175 · · Score: 2

      The funny thing is that two things would fix most of the issues: Term limits in both houses, and some meaningful campaign finance reform.

      Unfortunately, the very people who would need to take action to enact such laws are the same people who benefit from the system the way it is. Congress will never do anything meaningful in this area because it would take power away from them. The people in power are extremely power-hungry, that is why they ran for the office in the first place - there is no way they will voluntarily give up any of that power.

      --

      Enigma

    11. Re:US Citizenship by dbIII · · Score: 2

      In the USSR decades back there was a creative but courageous solution to that. Some files were opened along the lines of "as ordered all files on subject X with details contained in the appendix to this file were destroyed". That's how the world has some records of mass graves from Stalin's time.

    12. Re:US Citizenship by afidel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Could they have imagined a government where something akin to the Dutch East India Company simply walked in and individually bribed every single Congressman and the President to do their bidding, without the American people even realizing it?

      Sure they did:


      1. “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
      — Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin.

      2. “I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
      — Thomas Jefferson.

      3. “The power of all corporations ought to be limited, [...] the growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses.”
      — James Madison

      4.“Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or ever will do good.”
      — John Adams

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    13. Re:US Citizenship by khallow · · Score: 4, Informative

      Given that one of the sparks of the American Revolution was a tax/rent seeking handout to the British East India company, maybe they were far from clueless on the matter.

      Also, where does the NSA fit in this "oligarchy of huge corporations"?

    14. Re:US Citizenship by doug141 · · Score: 4, Informative

      "I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!
      -Andrew Jackson

  2. Indentured servitude and slavery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is because the H1B visa problem is rife with abuse, ranging from fraud, most common, to basic slavery. If you don't believe the slavery port realize that a lot of people working on H1B visa's in the US have signed very abusive contracts with brokers in their home countries. If they quit and leave they'll be in a heap of legal and financial trouble when they get back.

    The tech companies know this, the Labor department knows this, Destroying records s a way to hopefully prevent any future legal action on the part of H1B applicants in the future. Similar thing happened with Migrant workers from Mexico, taxes and fees were taken out, then records were destroyed to make it impossible for workers to sue later or collect benefits promised.

    1. Re:Indentured servitude and slavery by hostmaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Can you cite some examples of the "abusive contracts with brokers" and "slave wages" and give us some data on how prevalent you believe these are?

      Here's survey data on H-1Bs: http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/Reports%20and%20Studies/H-1B/h1b-fy-12-characteristics.pdf

      and here's prevailing wage data for a random area (Denver, Colorado): http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-1132&area=19740&year=15&source=1 prevailing wage for Level 1 is $64,230 for an application developer.

      Most H-1B workers tend to be young in their mid-20s. In comparison, here's what graduating seniors from an Ivy League engineering school make in possibly the highest cost location in the country (NYC) http://www.careereducation.columbia.edu/sites/cce/files/2013_gss--cc__seas-ug.pdf The median is mid-50s.

      It seems to me you have your panties in a bunch over imagined abuses. May I suggest a direction in which your indignation could be more constructively directed?

      Here's what Colorado pays the school-teachers who are tasked with educating the next generation. http://www.cde.state.co.us/sites/default/files/documents/cdereval/download/pdf/avgteachersal/2011avgteachersalary.pdf

      Salaries in most districts are in the 30s and 40s. In the Denver area, they creep into the 50s in some districts. This is an average, it includes teachers with decades of experience. And these are people who are spending hours and hours before and after classes end grading homework, preparing lesson plans etc. That's the real problem we have in this country when it comes to training and preparing skilled workers so they can move up the income curve.

      --
      -- Equity lord of the Trill Consortium
  3. 80 Billion IT budget??? by TyFoN · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's more than some small countries national budgets..

    How is that even even possible?

    You could buy 80 million $1000 computers for that amount!

    Sorry for not being completely OT, but that's insane..

    1. Re:80 Billion IT budget??? by abies · · Score: 4, Informative

      Entire Department of Labor budget is around 12 billions.

      I suppose that 80 billions (if true) would come mostly from Department of Defense - I can easily imagine IT costs of various top-end fighters/bombers/missiles etc being quite high.

      In any case, it doesn't really matter. Costs of storage is not an issue here. Legal reasons, maintenance, politics - but certainly not cost of few tapes/harddrives.

    2. Re:80 Billion IT budget??? by Thanshin · · Score: 2

      You could buy 80 million $1000 computers for that amount!

      Or pay the salary of the CEO of each of the handful of IT corporations that paid your political campaign!

    3. Re:80 Billion IT budget??? by ruir · · Score: 4, Funny

      the bullshit is more costly than the hardware, apparently...

  4. Government is getting really comfortable deleting by Karmashock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... everything. The cover ups are wall to wall.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  5. Plausible deniability by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The answer to this is easy: plausible deniability. If the records are only temporary, and get expunged after 5 years, then the US government suddenly have an out for bad press over a long history of abuses of that H1B program that have gone unchecked. Instead of changing policy, fixing the program, and investigating historical abuses by various (mostly tech) companies, it is easier to rewrite histrory.

    The answer will now be: 'Oh... we can't possibly investigate company X for H1B visa abuses. The records were temporary and no longer exist. Since the records no longer exist, we cannot possibly comment. To the best of our knowledge, the H1B program works.'

  6. H1B applicants are people too by melonman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article doesn't seem to point out the obvious explanation, ie that H1B applications contain personal data (of the type Slashdotters are usually passionate about protecting), and that it is good practice not to keep such information hanging around once it has served its primary purpose. There are presumably solutions to the research concerns, such as aggregating the data before it is deleted or collecting the specific data necessary before the records are deleted.

    --
    Virtually serving coffee
    1. Re:H1B applicants are people too by Barny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      *hears a loud popping*

      Oh gods it is starting!

      But yes, I came in to see if anyone had picked up on this. Having governments restrict the duration they hold potentially personal data for is a good thing.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    2. Re:H1B applicants are people too by jenningsthecat · · Score: 5, Informative

      The article doesn't seem to point out the obvious explanation, ie that H1B applications contain personal data (of the type Slashdotters are usually passionate about protecting), and that it is good practice not to keep such information hanging around once it has served its primary purpose.

      Given the recent reports of how H1B workers are treated as slaves in abuses reminicent of human trafficking, the timing of this seems more than a bit suspicious. And at least one source has the DOL saying "will no longer respond to inquiries to search for records in response to FOIA requests". Explicitly pre-empting the FOIA process without even the suggestion that the data might be anonymized to allay privacy concerns is, again, more than a little suspicious.

      There are presumably solutions to the research concerns, such as aggregating the data before it is deleted or collecting the specific data necessary before the records are deleted.

      Yes, there are solutions, but will they be implemented? And is the Dept. of Labor so tone-deaf, and so ignorant of the controversial nature of this decision, that they didn't think to put an anonymization program in place in advance of this announcement? Somehow I doubt it.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    3. Re:H1B applicants are people too by wrc · · Score: 4, Informative

      "The obvious explanation" is incorrect.

      The record in question, the Labor Condition Application, does not include personal data. Employers are even required to have them available for public disclosure (see section J of the form).

      So, no personal information. Just records of what the employer claimed the prevailing wage was for the roles it brought in H1B workers to fill.

      It's ETA Form 9035. Look for yourself.

    4. Re:H1B applicants are people too by threc · · Score: 2

      Considering I have FOIA'ed hundreds of thousands of government pages (DIA, USAF Oral History, and more) and in some cases waited over a decade to get the paperwork approved for release. I have a pretty good idea of how long it takes. Want to know what's different with these Department of Labor documents and why it shouldn't be a fairly fast process to redact? The documents are templatized forms. So the fields are strongly typed. Since many of the documents are stored electronically, it wouldn't take a genius to programmatically remove the confidential information.

      --
      What do you get when you cross a mountain-climber with a mosquito? Nothing! You can't cross a scaler with a vector.
  7. Duplicate by meglon · · Score: 4, Informative

    How many times will you be running this story, this week?

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  8. The alternative is "forever" by rcharbon · · Score: 2

    You may think 5 years is too short, but you do need some expiration date for non-critical data. Without an expiration date, whoever manages the data has to go into CYA mode and keep it forever. That gets expensive - it's not the cost of raw storage, it's the cost of ensuring that everything is kept as systems change.

  9. The Cloud! by wed128 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is the data public information? if so, why not just make it publicly available, and whoever cares can download it. If the data is valuable, it will be mirrored and survive. if not, it won't.

  10. Re:Government is getting really comfortable deleti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...except of course the private data of people they intercepted illegaly.

  11. Department of Corporate Welfare by Required+Snark · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Just change the name to reflect what it really does. Merge everything into four real departments:

    The Department of Defense Pork

    The Department of Homeland Pork

    The Department of Corporate Lawlessness

    The Department of Corporate Welfare

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  12. Sensationalist garbage by PPalmgren · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every single government form and department has a record retention policy of some kind. This is a labor certification record held by the department of labor. This doesn't tell you anything except that the person had the H1B and was OK to work at their original hire date, its a work verification not a visa data repository. The actual visa application and so-on would be with US CIS or US CBP. I'm honestly surprised they held it for even 5 years, since most forms of this nature have a retention of only 2-4 years.

  13. Standard Document Retention Policy by Jaime2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The goal of an effective document retention policy is to identify documents that can be destroyed and destroy them as soon as it is permissible to do so. Old documents are a court case with a broad discovery order away from becoming a big cost. It's very cheap to say "the retention policy says these documents are only kept five years and we physically destroy them shortly after this date".

    I know of a county government in New York that kept their backups tapes from their mail server as a method of retention. There was some political trouble with a mayor (who used the county's email system) and a contractor - suspicion of giving no-bid contracts or something like that. A request came to the county's doorstep for all of the email correspondence between the two for the four years the mayor was in office. The county had to buy a spare server and restore each monthly tape to it and manually pick out the email messages. It cost them $190,000. It would have been better for them to either have an effective archiving plan, or to have deleted them. Keeping stuff "just in case" is a horrible idea.

    Of course, if these documents are being singled out for aggressive purging and other documents are not, then there may be some funny business going on.

    1. Re:Standard Document Retention Policy by Jaime2 · · Score: 2

      The retention policy itself is the accountability; I'm only advocating rigorously adhering to the policy. If it needs to be set longer, that's up to the people who set the policy. The important takeaway of my anecdote is that if the IT staff do a half-asses job of keeping documents beyond the required date, it can cost them a lot. Do it right or don't do it at all.

      The county government in my example wasted a tremendous amount of other people's money by implementing a poor documentation retention plan.

  14. How many of the US citizens give a damn? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... Could they have imagined a government where something akin to the Dutch East India Company simply walked in and individually bribed every single Congressman and the President to do their bidding, without the American people even realizing it?

    I am a citizen of the United States of America. I realize what is going on

    But how many of my fellow Americans know?

    And more importantly, how many of them give a damn?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:How many of the US citizens give a damn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most of them are probably too busy working two or three jobs to get by to notice.

    2. Re:How many of the US citizens give a damn? by blue9steel · · Score: 2

      I am a citizen of the United States of America. I realize what is going on

      But how many of my fellow Americans know?

      And more importantly, how many of them give a damn?

      I know, I give a damn, how does that make any difference?

  15. Copy Them by PPH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    These are public records (according to TFA). Some research organization (university) can make periodic requests for the data, put it on line and store it indefinitely. They (or some third parties) could even create a few reports, to give the public an idea of which companies are making H-1B visa requests.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  16. Government priorities by operagost · · Score: 2

    You know your government is overreaching when they collect and keep your telephone records forever, but have to destroy lists of H1-B visas after five years "to save storage space".

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  17. The reason should be obvious . . . by sgt_doom · · Score: 2

    . . . those of us who aren't arithmetically-challenged have noticed that this official fourth jobless recovery (although really the fifth or sixth, and we are now told that all the jobs lost have been created again, at least in numerical quantity), that with each and every one of those four downturns, meltdowns, etc., that exactly one-fifth of the US workforce was laid off --- now, to have precisely the same portion of the workforce laid off each and every effing time is just a little bit too mind boggling to be taken as accidental --- throw into the equation all those jobs now being offshored, or created offshore, and more and more foreign visa scab workers imported by the corporations (remember, please, that the NYC Times Square attempted car bomber had been sponsored to this country from Pakistan, by a hedge fund based in Connecticut).