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New GCHQ Chief Says Social Media Aids Terrorists

An anonymous reader sends this report from Sky News: The new head of GCHQ has accused social media websites of helping terror groups and called for closer ties with intelligence agencies. "'However much they [tech companies] may dislike it, they have become the command and control networks of choice for terrorists and criminals, who find their services as transformational as the rest of us." ... Mr. Hannigan said that smartphone and other mobile technologies increased the opportunities for terrorist activity to be concealed in the wake of the exposing of secret cables and documents collected by US and UK authorities by whistleblower Edward Snowden. Mr. Hannigan said that smartphone and other mobile technologies increased the opportunities for terrorist activity to be concealed in the wake of the exposing of secret cables and documents collected by US and UK authorities by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

41 of 228 comments (clear)

  1. Not a win by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If we start screaming, crying, and arresting people as soon as they express a view we don't like we have not defeated the Muslims. We have become like the Muslims.

    1. Re:Not a win by Tyr07 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First off, being a Muslim has nothing to do with screaming, crying, and arresting as soon as they express a view we don't like.

      Muslim is a religious choice, and just like Christians or any other religion, there are those who are fanatical about it. They are dangerous, remember the holy crusades?

      There are people who are fanatical who have nothing to do with religion at all, what group do you insult for them?
      There's plenty of Muslims who live in Canada who are perfectly reasonable respectable people who are not violent who appreciate that you have your own way you live your life, and aren't coming to you to force you to change it, and just want to be respected for their way of life like any other religion.

    2. Re:Not a win by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You've only just now realized that Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden won beyond their wildest imaginations? We can fist bump about killing him and shouting "MURICA!! FUCK YEEEEAAH!" but even with Bush in front of his "Mission Accomplished" banner, we've still lost this fight big time by succumbing to the terrorist boogeyman to allow Big Brother to tuck us in at night.

    3. Re:Not a win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      First off, being a Muslim has nothing to do with screaming, crying, and arresting as soon as they express a view we don't like.

      really?

    4. Re:Not a win by javilon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, I guess he means muslim countries.

      Any country defined (by themselves) as "a muslim country" falls into the view: "screaming, crying, and arresting as soon as they express a view we don't like".

      As a test, try to go to a "muslim country" and tell them you are gay...

      There are also other countries where this happens, like Russia (recently on the news) but the point is it does happen in every muslim country.

      --


      When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
    5. Re:Not a win by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      Considering that every time someone says something like wanting no religious accommodation in schools. Muslim groups start screaming "islamophobia or islamophobe" some other type of crap, it does seem to be particular to them.

      But sure, there's fanatical people. What's the difference between Muslims and Christians? Two things, first Christians don't believe that all people are Christian or born as such. Islam dictates that all people are. Second, Christianity has had a reformation(several actually), Islam has had none. Also, your "dangerous holy crusades" were in response to Muslims. More so the out-right slaughter, rape, murder, and forced conversion of Christians in Spain...that had been on-going for nearly 100 years by that time.

      An individual who's fanatical, most people would lump as an individualist. And sure, there's plenty of Muslims in Canada who aren't coming to try and force you to change, but there are plenty that are. There are also some that are being directly attacked by their own community when they came out after the Muslim drove over two soldiers in Quebec stating that all mosques need to be shut down immediately and investigated. It's nice and all, but there is something fundamentally broken in Islam. All Islamic organizations need to have a financial audit, and all immigration from Islamic countries stopped in the intern.

      Burying your head in the sand over it, won't make it go away.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    6. Re:Not a win by jafiwam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If we start screaming, crying, and arresting people as soon as they express a view we don't like we have not defeated the Muslims. We have become like the Muslims.

      This sums it up right there. We are well on our way already.

      The GCHQ head is clueless. They'll just do what they think is effective and safe. When they figured out we were using voice prints and cell phones to target air strikes, they stopped using cell phones.

      The same thing will happen with Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, Snapchat, or whatever else.

      Another point, the ones using those things now are the dumb ones that are all talk, and not going to do much if anything effective. Worry about the ones that have hidden their messages that we aren't finding, or the ones that just meet in person or send coded snail mail letters. They don't need instructions, they need MONEY and TIME to get their goals done.

      This is nothing more than yet another ploy to hook more surveillance into stuff that will be basically used to make the IRS more effective at targeting mild political opposites for harassment. The guys they need to bust in on with guns plot in mosques and living rooms in person.

    7. Re:Not a win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Muslim is a religious choice

      How is it a religious choice? You are born into it, and if you try to leave you are publicly executed. Where is the choice in that? It is fuckin cancer.

    8. Re:Not a win by Tyr07 · · Score: 2

      It would be more accurate to say by governments and people of power in nations that are primarily populated by people of the Muslim religion.
      They just don't have the digital intelligence network to do it quietly like North America.

      I promise you that there a lot of people in "Muslim" countries who don't give a shit if you're gay, as long as you're not trying to force them to change their way of life, and don't care what you're doing in your spare time if you're not hurting anyone. They're going for coffee with their friends, going out for dinner, going dancing. Having friends over for dinner, watching TV, going out to a movie.

      A lot of them are just trying to live their lives and don't want to deal with this shit anymore than we do. Unfortunately the smallest percentage of people seem to be the loudest who are screaming over everything.

    9. Re:Not a win by Tyr07 · · Score: 2

      And sure, there's plenty of Muslims in Canada who aren't coming to try and force you to change, but there are plenty that are

      Sure, I can agree with that, I just don't like the generalization. Any special interest group is doing the exact same thing. There are plenty of feminists who are just trying to make sure things are fair, for both genders and not trying to get revenge or force men to be in a disadvantaged position, but just equal. But there are plenty who are.

      There are also plenty of white men who are happy with embracing multi-culturism, and equality for both genders, wanting that and not trying to force inequality to benefit their way of life, but there are plenty who are.

      I could go on and on with every single group, it's not appropriate to group everyone of a specific faith, gender or race to this kind of behavior. You need support of the very people you are generalizing.

      You need the help of reasonable rational Muslims to help enlighten, educate their kids, their neighbors the proper way to live without discriminating against people and trying to force change on them. If you alienate them, you'll prove the fanatical sides point.

      People need to start directing their attention on the direct individuals or organizations responsible so that all people from different races, religions and genders can unite to snuff out the bullshit, so we can one day (Probably never remotely in my life time) move forward as a human race.

      Read a good fairy tale. They have some good points. Sometimes the "good" people alienate the very people who could help them,. Evil isn't born, it's created.

    10. Re:Not a win by jrumney · · Score: 2

      Think for a moment what his link was given in response to.

    11. Re:Not a win by NotDrWho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Islam may indeed be another religious choice. But in it's present-day form, it's MUCH more radical than most others. Very few other modern religions still seek to impose their religious beliefs by force in entire COUNTRIES (and exclude the practice of other religions). Even radical Zionists in Israel and Mormons in Utah would draw the line at banning other religions in their countries outright, or in overriding secular civil law entirely with their batshit beliefs. There are an *increasing* number of Muslim countries (and, make no mistake, it IS increasing), where the general populace is all-too-ready to vote in Sharia Law and start burning churches the second they get the chance. And this is not a movement that is weakening in the modern world, it's actually STRENGTHENING.

      There are still voices of moderation in Islam. But I'm no longer convinced that they are the majority, and they are CERTAINLY on the wane.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    12. Re:Not a win by mean+pun · · Score: 2

      What's the difference between Muslims and Christians? Two things, first Christians don't believe that all people are Christian or born as such. Islam dictates that all people are.

      Islam wants all people to be Muslims, and considers Muslims superior. But then, Christianity wants all people to be Christians, and considers Christians superior. Neither religion believes all people are born as such, neither religion dictates that all people are. The mainstream religion, that is. If you search long enough you can find loons that believe anything, including that the earth is flat or the sky is green. It is not so hard to find loons that want to shoot all those dangerous lefty atheists.

      Second, Christianity has had a reformation(several actually), Islam has had none.

      Islam has evolved a lot over the centuries, and mixed with local religions all over the world. Many people in for example Iran and Saudi Arabia would like their religious leaders to lighten up, but then there are plenty of Christian flavours that should stop their bible thumping as well.

      Also, your "dangerous holy crusades" were in response to Muslims. More so the out-right slaughter, rape, murder, and forced conversion of Christians in Spain...that had been on-going for nearly 100 years by that time.

      Whereas the Spanish inquisition only used comfy chairs. They're famous for it. And the crusaders were never guilty of out-right slaughter, rape, murder, and forced conversion.

    13. Re:Not a win by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      The problem is that "rational muslims" are considered "not muslims" by a very large segment of the population. And even if you take the most conservative guess based on previous studies you're looking at 25%(that's in western countries) that openly support terrorism, death of apostates, and so on. You look for the same views in other countries, and it varies between 40-70% of support, especially in muslim countries. So while you say evil isn't born, it's created you've got a large swath of people out there who believe their brand of whatever to be the only true view and interpretation of events in the world.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    14. Re:Not a win by digitalchinky · · Score: 2

      It's not about terrorism, it's about mass surveillance and the wildest dreams of people like Robert Hannigan. Osama and others were unpleasant for sure, but they also provided a convenient excuse for an enormous power grab. Every country with one or more three letter agencies were moving firmly in this direction since the early 90's (storage started to get cheap), we'd be in exactly the same place right now anyway, just that nobody would be talking about it.

      This was lost decades ago.

    15. Re:Not a win by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

      But sure, there's fanatical people. What's the difference between Muslims and Christians?

      Basically the difference is the name. Put an extreme Muslim next to an extreme Christian and it's hard to tell the difference, same with your everyday Joe Muslim and Johnny Christian. All religions have the potential to have the extremists, even none religious do (only they have to look harder for justification). It just so happens to be the Muslims turn in the spotlight to be 'the baddies' before that the Russians, before that the Germans, before that the Germans again etc etc etc.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    16. Re:Not a win by nedlohs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So what were you saying. The exchange seems to have been (with different people involved in each step of course):

      1. A claim that muslims exhibit the behaviour of "screaming, crying, and arresting people as soon as they express a view we don't like".
      2. A claim that being a muslim has nothing to do with "screaming, crying, and arresting people as soon as they express a view we don't like".
      3. A source showing some muslims setting an embassy on fire, rioting, and demanding death to some people, because said people expressed a view the muslims didn't like.
      4. A source showing some christians killing people and blowing things up.

      3. is clearly supposed to be evidence for the claim in 1. - you don't have to think it's good evidence, but it is at least clearly about the claim in 1.

      4. On the other hand has nothing to do with either of the claims in 1. or 2. So what were you trying to show by that link?

    17. Re:Not a win by Chas · · Score: 2

      over here in Canada it's not the Muslims bitching and whining, it's the Jews (omg! anti-Semitic!!) - they use hate speech laws to prevent people learning of their ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by threatening media organisations.

      Muslim countries didn't trump up charges and go after Assange.
      Muslim countries didn't jail Manning.
      Muslim countries aren't after Snowden.
      Muslim countries didn't jail Drake, Kiriakou, and whistleblowers who exposed the illegal activity of our governments.

      Turn your bloody TV off and stop drinking the anti-muslim propaganda you're being fed to try and turn you into a 'useful idiot'.

      No, they just have guys break in, kidnap him, and then film them cutting off his head with a letter opener. All while talking about how great Allah is.
      And they kill the women he raped for having sex outside of marriage.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    18. Re:Not a win by Tyr07 · · Score: 2

      3. is clearly supposed to be evidence for the claim in 1. - you don't have to think it's good evidence, but it is at least clearly about the claim in 1.

      We need to correct our generalizations elsewise
      http://blogs.vancouversun.com/...
      Men are rapists.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
      Women are husband murders

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
      Women will cheat on you if you have a big penis.

      https://www.ministrymagazine.o...
      Men are christian and battle with their sexuality.

      See the problem with taking one thing and applying to everyone? You're going to piss off a lot of people who had nothing to do with what happened, even if they have something in common like religion, or gender. You need the support of these people to stop these things.

    19. Re:Not a win by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      I also need to try and read sentences that I rewrite to remove words that were part of the old version. But given there's an example of that in basically every post I make success seems unlikely.

    20. Re:Not a win by Transfinite · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.naharnet.com/storie... Islam is a dangerous, corrupt quasi-religious political system, founded on lies & murder. You are making the mistake of thinking in, I assume, a Christian world view. Yes a lot of Muslims wont' give a shit, many, many, many of them will .

    21. Re:Not a win by Transfinite · · Score: 2

      Malaysian Muslims are trying to get laws passed now that would forbid any Christian proselytising, they can't take the fact that some Muslims might be waking up:
      http://www.themalaymailonline....

      kettle pot black.
      Just in case you don't realise that Islam is not like the soft fluffy, inclusive, benign Christianity you are used to here is another example: http://mohabatnews.com/index.p...

      FYI I'm an atheist I hold all religions to some degree in contempt, some more than others

    22. Re:Not a win by TangoMargarine · · Score: 2

      New studies suggest that terrorists breathe air.

      Ban air!

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
  2. Re:Social media by javilon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In other news:

    Cars help terrorists: they use them as a means of transport. We should add kill switches and gps units to all cars so the goverment can track every individual car and stop it if needed.

    Subway helps terrorists: They use it as a means of transport. We should force every person using it to identify and keep all this data on a database.

    Houses help terrorists: They use them to hide and to stay warm and to plan new attacks. We should have a camera on every house connected to a government agency so we can track who is in the house and what is he doing.

    Books help terrorists: They read them and get funny ideas. We should create a system where people would identify themselves before reading a book.

    Also, this not only applies to terrorists. It also applies to child molesters, please think of the children.

    --


    When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
  3. And remember people... by Noryungi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Slashdot IS social media, which is why NSA and GCHQ created a fake Slashdot to hack into a Belgian Telecom company.

    You dirty terrorists, you! Bad Slashdot! BAD!

    Seriously, though, this is beyond belief and beyond the pale. Where do they get these morons? Most of these people are guilty of perjury (at best) and outright conflict of interests and gross violations of basic human rights at worst.

    When is this going to stop and when are we going to get rid of these idiots? Where is Senator Franck Church when we need him?

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  4. You know what else aids terrorists? by jcr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Electricity, roads, mechanized farming, and every other technology that makes up our modern way of life.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:You know what else aids terrorists? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2

      As do civil liberties, privacy, and encryption.

  5. Simple solution.... by purple_cobra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...get a search warrant. Or, to be a bit more accurate: stop whining about how difficult your job is now and just do what you should have been doing all along. If you are having trouble identifying "persons of interest", that is not my problem. If encryption is too hard for you to break covertly, that is not my problem. If you can't do your job without every single person holding the door open for you to have a look around inside, that is not my problem. See a theme here, Hannigan? You are paid a handsome salary to detect nefarious arseholes who would do damage to the UK and its interests; perhaps you should earn that salary instead of moaning about the IT industry making the life of your staff difficult. If a dragnet is the answer, you are asking the wrong questions.

    1. Re:Simple solution.... by purple_cobra · · Score: 2

      Yeah, refusal to disclose passwords is covered under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (or it was when I was in college, at least); I suspect *that* law will be tweaked (i.e. to cover the same imprisonment terms as the original offence for which you are being investigated, so for murder that might well mean life for not disclosing your password) but there needs to be a *very* tight scope placed on that (i.e. if the police are searching for terrorist propaganda and find a small amount of cannabis at your house, the drug would be confiscated and destroyed but no police/judicial action taken as a result beyond the confiscation (not that I care what people do to themselves if they are consenting adults)). Will that kind of thing happen? Of course not. Laws are (effectively) created by the tabloid press and the various muppets on Mumsnet et al, so we'll get monosyllabic drivel with enough loopholes to drive a fleet of buses through. I'd love to vote these people out but a) I keep voting and all I get as a result is different idiots wearing different coloured ties, and b) you can't vote for the Daily Heil or Mumsnet to keep quiet for a week and just let us get on with our lives.

    2. Re:Simple solution.... by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's still utterly ridiculous. Encryption is intended to protect you from Bad Guys (whether they be governments or simple criminals). If it also makes law enforcement difficult, then so be it; our rights don't just vanish just to make their jobs easier.

      Draconian punishments for refusing to give up passwords would just further reveal them to be freedom-hating scumbags. Hopefully courts in the US would recognize that as a violation of the constitution (other places, I'm not sure).

  6. Water aids terrorists by Roodvlees · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Drinking water allows terrorists to remain hydrated, even in dry environments! Social media aid those who use them.

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
  7. Of course it is. by robbak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The largest means of support for terrorist groups is the U.S. Dollar. Perhaps we should get rid of that, too.

    --
    Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
  8. Also by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

    This just in!
    Also aiding Terrorists:
    1. Air
    2. Food
    3. Water
    4. Pillows
    5. Gravity
    6. The sun

  9. question by JigJag · · Score: 3, Funny

    Did Mr. Hannigan say "that smartphone and other mobile technologies increased the opportunities for terrorist activity to be concealed in the wake of the exposing of secret cables and documents collected by US and UK authorities by whistleblower Edward Snowden"?

    I'm still not sure yet.

    --
    "The hallmark of humanity is the ability to move beyond sensory inputs" - Mary Helen Immordino-Yang
  10. Lions, tigers, and bears oh my by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Paper helps terrorists make plans, maps help them find their way, cars help them get there, air helps them breath, food helps them grow, playing cars stave off their boredom, blah blah blah.

    I would say that supporting tinpot dictators in these countries has probably been the #1 factor in creating these guys, with any #2 being such a distant second that it hardly counts. Yet it is these very same "security" agencies that have been patting themselves on the back as they trained and supported the secret police in all these countries. Using terms like "Realpolitik" to justify their actions.

    Well sorry, you don't let the serial killer go just because he also runs an after-school program for the kids. Or even if he happens to own an oil well or two.

    Plus it wouldn't be social media that the top terrorist dogs use. Those guys would be using couriers running around on motorcycles with cryptic notes. The only people that are using social media that these KGB types are scared of are new peaceful political movements that might organized to create a society that doesn't give them the free hand that they enjoy today and hope for tomorrow. Including movements in countries where they enjoy tight relationships with the corrupt evil regimes that have their boots on the throats of their people now.

    Think about how much effort the American security services have spent going after Occupy NY whereas how little effort they have spent going after any police who violated the civil rights of those same protesters. That is the social media they seek to control.

  11. Re:Social media by gl4ss · · Score: 2

    so we install cameras in every bedroom to see if they're fucking with condoms or not?

    I mean, that's basically what it goes to. Government agencies having agents who have access to information about who fucks who and how they fuck, with no oversight. It's better than having cameras in the bedrooms since this way they'll get even people who aren't fucking at home but at love hotels etc.

    and why they would be interested in that is that information gives power over many people, especially if they at the same time run propaganda for a conservative 'no sex or naughty stuff' fashion.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  12. Cars Aid Terrorsist by tomxor · · Score: 2

    Sandwiches Aid Terrorists

    Toothpaste Aid Terrorists

    HD TVs Aid Terrorists

    Sleep Aids Terrorists

    Coffee Aids Terrorists

    Money Aids Terrorists

    ...Another fact we all now know: Robert Hannigan is a fuckwit... and you can probably find a reason that he in some way also aids terrorists.

  13. Re:Derp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    "In my opinion, this is not discriminating or oppressive."

    That's because you're discriminating and oppressive so your opinion is based on an abnormal starting point. Assad, Gaddafi, Putin, Stalin, and the Kim Jong dynasty probably don't think anything they do is oppressive either, but it doesn't change the fact that it is.

    "It would be discriminating and oppressive if they had competing "Hetero Pride" and "Gay Pride" parades, or "Hetero Lifestyle" and "Gay Lifestyle" public debates and only one side received talk time. Neither receive talk time, which seems to be a fair policy."

    Yeah or like if two straight Russians kiss in the street and it's all good but if two gay ones do so then they get beaten up and then arrested for their crime of "promoting gay rights".

    Tell me again how that's not discriminatory and not an anti-gay law given that you're not allowed to do something if you're gay in Russia that straight people do all the time?

    Why not just say what you really mean - that you hate gays and agree with their oppression in Russia and cut the bullshit in the middle? You'd save yourself so much more typing and you'd be putting the exact same message across. Far more efficient.

  14. Re:Social media by myowntrueself · · Score: 3, Informative

    The UK has already banned any information which might be useful to a terrorist. Literally, thats what the law says.

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  15. he's right by Tom · · Score: 2

    Dispite the sensationalistic headline, he's actually spot on:

    "'However much they [tech companies] may dislike it, they have become the command and control networks of choice for terrorists and criminals, who find their services as transformational as the rest of us."

    True. He's not saying social media is aiding terrorists. He says that terrorists use the same tools that normal people use, too.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  16. Freedom Aids Terrorists by k2r · · Score: 2

    so let's get rid of it.