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New Website Offers Provably Fair Solutions To Everyday Problems

An anonymous reader writes Carnegie Mellon researchers have just launched Spliddit, a website that offers methods for helping people split rent, divide goods, and share credit. The novelty is that these methods are all "provably fair": there are mathematical proofs showing that each algorithm on the site provides rigorous fairness guarantees. For example, the method for splitting rent is guaranteed to be envy free: the assignment of rooms and division of rent is such that a housemate would never want to swap places with another housemate. All it takes is a pair of siblings to prove that there's no such thing as "provably fair," non-mathematically.

26 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. It doesn't work by wcrowe · · Score: 5, Funny

    I keep telling my dogs that the way that Spliddit divvies up the expenses is PROVABLY FAIR, but all they do is look at me blankly, cocking their heads to one side. Damn dogs. I never see a dime out of either of them.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:It doesn't work by Quirkz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hell, if you give two children identical copies of the same color crayon, one will still want what the other has.

    2. Re:It doesn't work by chronoglass · · Score: 2

      http://www.spliddit.org/apps/g...

      I only got half of a cat!

  2. sibling fairness by orgelspieler · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The best example of a fairness algorithm is an old one used with siblings. Tell one kid to divvy up the candy/cake/toys whatever, and let the other kid choose which half they want.

    Greece used something similar when trying to get people to honestly report the value of their antiquities. If they listed it for a price the government thought was too low, the agency could buy it for that price. I wish local governments would do something like that with home values. If they want to tax me for a house worth more than what I can get for it on the open market, then I should have the right to sell it to them at that price.

    1. Re:sibling fairness by Kvasio · · Score: 3, Informative

      the algorith is old one, I remember it from Hugo Steinhaus's math book.
      It works for any number of parties and goods.

      Say we have 4 brothers who have to divide the heritage: home, car and bicycle

      Step 1: each brother provides his valuation, e.g.
      Adam home $200,000 car $10,000 bike $100 - total value $210,100 thus his "fair part" is $52,525
      Brad home $150,000 car $3,000 bike $120 - total value $153,120 thus his "fair part" is $38,280
      Caleb home $180,000 car $11,000 bike $80 - total value $191,080 thus his "fair part" is $47,770
      Damon home $50,000 car $3,000 bike $60 - total value $53,060 thus his "fair part" is $13,265

      Step 2
      whoever "bid" the highest for given good, gets it, at his own valuation.
      Adam gets home (valued by him $200,000), which is $147,475 more, than his "fair part", so has to pay $147,475 to the pool
      Brad gets bike (valued by him at $120), which is $38,160 less, than he believes he should get
      Caleb gets cat (valued by him at $11,000) which is $36,770 less than his definition of a fair part.
      Damon gets no item, which is $13,265 lower, than he had hoped to get

      Step 3
      Adam should pay $147,475 to the pool.
      Brad gets $38,160 from the pool
      Caleb gets $36,770 from the pool
      Damon gets $13,265 from the pool

      Now every brother got exactly what he valued as a 1/4th of total items value.

      And we've still got $59,280 in pool to share. Which may:
      - be split equally - each brother gets $14,820 "bonus"
      - be split proportionaly - each brother gets part of that $59k split by weights of their total valuation sum (in our example - each would bet 39.04% more than he expected)
      - be stolen by the court/the man splitting goods ;-)

      Hugo Steinhaus also mentioned that this procedure may be altered to minimise cash flows (items go to person with lowerst valuation, but results in everyone getting less than expected) or to consider not equal shares in total goods.

    2. Re:sibling fairness by radtea · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the algorith is old one, I remember it from Hugo Steinhaus's math book.

      That's a really nice description. I wish this was better known. But...

      The algorithm only works (in the sense of leaving the parties psychologically satisfied) if their preferences are transitive (that is, if they are not insane).

      In reality, even sane people's preferences change in pseudo-non-transitive ways as possibilities become actualities. So when Caleb gets the car, Adam is going to wish he'd valued it more highly, and so on. Our inner monkey won't be happy until it gets more than everyone else.

      There is also a considerable body of data showing that our ability to judge the value of stuff is very poor. Happiness research has been big on this, showing that most of what people think will make them happy is radically inferior to easily predictable things that will actually make them happy.

      So while the algorithm is beautiful and general and ought to be used wherever appropriate, it is not going to satisfy people, and it will then fall out of use because no one is going to say, "I am broken" when they can say "The algorithm is broken" instead.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    3. Re:sibling fairness by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Except you assume that all the players are actually honest about every option and valuation and not just playing the algorithm. Imagine a well off and not so well off student decide to share an apartment which consists of two rooms, one small and one big and a common area. They can't agree how much the extra space is worth, now the poor student he doesn't want the big room. He just wants the other guy to pay this "fair" share extra so he can pay as little as possible. Now the rich student he knows the poor student is trying to cost optimize, he doesn't want to pay extra for extra space. So he doesn't have to bid a "fair" value, he just has to outbid the poor student.

      If the poor student tries to push up the price of the big room or the rich student tries to penny pinch low-balling the price and they end up swapping rooms neither is going to be happy, the poor student didn't really want to pay extra and the rich student didn't really want the cramped room. They were just trying to use their own knowledge of the other person's preferences to maximize their own value. No algorithm can reasonably cope with that because the total utility is not fixed, it's not like a cake where the sum always adds up to 100%.

      You can see this for example in divorce proceeding where something has different sentimental values. You want that family heirloom? Well I don't really want it, I'm just trying to gouge you for as much as I can. If you gouge too much the other person may give it up and say "fuck you too". The threshold is an essential secret which limits the gouging, if you knew that $100 item has a $1000 sentimental value you might bid $999 even though you don't want it for $101, you want to lose but in the most rewarding way.

      It doesn't even have to be the big stuff it might be chocolates in a bowl, if you know your buddy is big on toffee you might grab one even though you don't like it much because you know your buddy will offer a good swap. Until he catches on and lets you simmer with your toffee because he knows that's a lose-lose situation you want to get out of too. It's like trying to stand still at a game of rock-paper-scissors, in theory they all have a 1/3 chance of winning but if you pick rock every time you'll soon lose every time. The way to win is to recognize your opponents patterns and exploit them for a better than 1/3rd chance.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  3. The ice cream method by drooling-dog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To divide ice cream equally between two kids, have one dish it out and the other choose. My parents did this with my brother and me, and there was never anything to fight about afterwards. You'll never see more precise measurement in your life, though.

    1. Re:The ice cream method by swillden · · Score: 2

      But what if there are three people?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selfridge%E2%80%93Conway_discrete_procedure

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  4. Toilet etiquette by agm · · Score: 2

    Can we finally solve the age old question as to whether the seat should be left up or down? This is a function based on how many males vs females there are, and how often a male needs to, er, sit.

    1. Re:Toilet etiquette by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Always down -- including the lid.

    2. Re:Toilet etiquette by Some_Llama · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it should ALWAYS be that the person sitting is in charge of making sure it is down.

      Men sit down to poop, i don't hear them ever argue about who left the seat up, they just check before sitting.

      common sense?

    3. Re:Toilet etiquette by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      your argument doesn't work even though it is logical

      most men are rational about everything except relationships

      most women are the opposite

      It is impossible to discuss anything rationally with a woman because she believes that her "feelings" have a value, and that value is infinite. Therefore the only thing of importance is that she gets the result that makes her "feel" good (usually involving the man making a lot of extra effort/resource expenditure)

      It doesn't "feel" good for her to have to make the effort to check the seat and possibly lower it. Therefore its the man's job to expend the effort to prevent her from "not feeling good".

      Once you realize that logic and reason are not useful tools when it comes to interacting with women then everything becomes much easier.

    4. Re:Toilet etiquette by SimonInOz · · Score: 2

      Yeah - how come nobody ever asks "Why can't women put the damned seat up after them? They are so inconsiderate."

      Maybe someone could hack one of those dopey toilet seat closers?

      --
      "Cats like plain crisps"
    5. Re:Toilet etiquette by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Can we finally solve the age old question as to whether the seat should be left up or down? This is a function based on how many males vs females there are, and how often a male needs to, er, sit.

      In a domestic (i.e., household) setting, the simple compromise is toilet LID down. This way EVERYONE has to lift something to do something. If you're a lady, you lift the lid and the seat is down. If you're man doing #1, then you lift the lid and seat together. for #2, you lift just the lid.

      Then when you're done, you put the lid back down. If also keeps the bathroom more hygienic as the act of flushing creates a plume of toilet water. Keeping the lid closed keeps that plume within the toilet and not the entire bathroom.

      It has the advantage that stuff doesn't accidentally fall into the toilet too.

    6. Re:Toilet etiquette by Solandri · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Least-effort solution (minimum number of seat position changes) is for the person who uses the toilet to move it into the configuration they need it in, then leave it.

      Least-agony solution (minimum number of gross incidents) is to always lower the seat after use. However, the fact that "men won't follow" this solution is merely coincidence - this solution happens to coincide with the configuration women always use so they can never be guilty of transgressing it. When I was living alone I had a dog who liked to drink out of the toilet. Consequently, I always told guests to lower the lid of the toilet after using it. My female guests always left the lid up. About half the men would lower it (probably due to being scolded about it by women all too often).

    7. Re:Toilet etiquette by volmtech · · Score: 2

      My 90lb first wife was raised in a mostly female household. We had only been married a few days when from the bathroom I hear, "eek, splash".

    8. Re:Toilet etiquette by kooky45 · · Score: 2

      This is what I do at work, but it's because too many colleagues are either too lazy or too scared to touch the seat and they so wee all over it. With the lid down they either have to touch it and learn that a messy seat is a hazard, or choose another toilet.

    9. Re:Toilet etiquette by jittles · · Score: 2

      it should ALWAYS be that the person sitting is in charge of making sure it is down.

      Men sit down to poop, i don't hear them ever argue about who left the seat up, they just check before sitting.

      common sense?

      Hmmm. I get pissed at girlfriends when they come over and leave the seat down but the lid up. I hate staring into the gaping maw of the toilet bowl every time I need to walk into the bathroom. Furthermore, at a previous home, someone put a cabinet above the toilet. Can't tell you how many times I accidentally dropped something into the bowl from the cabinet shelf. Now the seat and the lid are second nature to me.

  5. solved: Up proves that it was raised. Also, forcin by raymorris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The male wants to avoid unnecessary raising and lowering - conservation of energy.
    The female wants TWO things - she wants the seat lifted before the gentleman urinates, AND she wants it lowered before she does.

    If the gentleman leaves the seat up, the female (provably) got the first thing she wants - the seat was raised before he urinated. Each party ends up doing the same amount of effort - they either raise or lower the seat before using it. That's fair.

    The other option, that the seat is left down, means that a) the man is expected to do 100% of the work, both raising and lowering, while the female does none. More importantly from her point of view, if the seat is down, she doesn't know whether or not it was down when he peed. She might be sitting on pee spots.

    Fairness, and her own piece of mind, therefore dictate that he leave the seat up.

    However, if she's clever, she can't gently force the seat to be lowered afterwards by placing a tray of soaps, potpourri, etc. on top of the toilet. The tray will prevent the seat from being raised all way to vertical and gravity will ensure it ends up down. The clever gentleman can respond to this forcing function by pointing out that it prevents her from knowing whether male guests ever raised the seat at all.

  6. Real problem is emotions by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Interesting
    People would never have a problem with dividing things if they didn't get all emotional about it.

    Divorce is the prime example - it's rarely about the 2nd home, the dog, the china, etc.

    It's about the cheating, the 'stealing the best years of my life', the drug addiction, etc.

    Nine times out of ten, people are not really looking for 'fair', they want 'JUSTICE' (in quotes).

    A pity, because in reality, 'JUSTICE" is another word for spending all your time and money on lawyers to punish someone else.

    If their algorithms won't let you spend all your time and money on punishing your opponent, it won't actually solve all the problems of sub-dividing property.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  7. Re:won't work with my kids by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Of course, for the splitting rent, the most fair approach is for the wealthiest roommate to pay more.

  8. Re:solved: Up proves that it was raised. Also, for by bn557 · · Score: 2

    This is why I always pee in the shower. Problem solved!

    --
    Humans are slow, innaccurate, and brilliant; computers are fast, acurrate, and dumb; together they are unbeatable
  9. Here's a great method for splitting chores by PapayaSF · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We did this back in college, and it worked great.

    1. – Make a list of all chores that need to be done every week.
    2. – Agree on a point value for each one, with more points for longer or less pleasant chores.
    3. – Divide the total points by the number of roommates, so everyone has X points to do per week.

    The real genius of the system then comes in: whoever does their chores first gets to pick which ones to do, and whoever puts it off until the end has to do whatever's left. So there's a built-in incentive to do chores early, and no squabbling, because everyone agreed to the point rankings ahead of time.

    --
    Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
  10. you'll just get the room you said you wanted by raymorris · · Score: 2

    -> Specifically, if you express a value for the rooms as almost the same as your roommate, but slightly lower for the rooms he wants the most and slightly higher for the rooms he likes the least, I suspect their mechanism for overdemanded and underdemanded rooms will give you the slightly inferior rooms at a greatly reduced price

    You'll only screw yourself that way. Suppose he values the first bedroom at $600 and the second at $500, because the first bedroom is better in some way.

    You suggest going lower on the room he wants, so $550, and slightly higher for the room he doesn't want, so again $550. So you've said that you don't care which room you get. Since you don't care and he does, he'll get the better room. You said it's worth $550, he said $600, so he'll end up paying about $575.

    Most of these algorithms automatically account for lying in the same way - the try to give you what you say you want. If you lie and say you want to sleep in the dumpster, you'll get what you asked for. The only time you won't get what you asked for is if someone else asked for the same thing.

    What the algorithms don't cover well is if preferences vastly differ between people, AND you know what the other person's true preferences are. Suppose a brother and sister are dividing up a Barbie, a GI Joe, and a slice of cake. Brother can gain an advantage by OVER valuing the Barbie and under valuing the GI Joe, but not by too much - he doesn't want to actually end up getting the Barbie. He wants to end up with the "undesireable" GI Joe AND the cake. However , if the sister does the same thing, undervaluing the Barbie and overvaluing the GI Joe, they'll likely end up with what neither of them wanted.

  11. Warmup to Voting Reform by drewm19801927 · · Score: 2

    If enough people start using tools like this and trusting game theorists, perhaps we will ultimately be able to get non-academics on board to fix our broken voting system. The American voting system was designed by people who thought slavery was fair, and was ultimately a compromise between people who thought land ownership should grant rights, and people who thought every white male should have equal rights.