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Joey Hess Resigns From Debian

Posted by Soulskill on from the so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-patience dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Long-time Debian developer Joey Hess has posted a resignation letter to the Debian mailing list. Hess was a big part of the development of the Debian installer, debhelper, Alien, and other systems. He says, "It's become abundantly clear that this is no longer the project I originally joined in 1996. We've made some good things, and I wish everyone well, but I'm out. ... If I have one regret from my 18 years in Debian, it's that when the Debian constitution was originally proposed, despite seeing it as dubious, I neglected to speak out against it. It's clear to me now that it's a toxic document, that has slowly but surely led Debian in very unhealthy directions."

12 of 450 comments (clear)

  1. DebianNoob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What directions is he referring to? What's seen as wrong with the constitution? Toxic?

  2. Gnome3, systemd etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After all of the rhetoric regarding "community" you can see how Debian has fallen short. While I still like and use Debian currently I am seriously looking at other options. When Debian pushed Gnome3 and the community didn't like it they moved forward with it as the default desktop anyway. Now there is the systemd debacle. A large number of people have voiced their disapproval, but No, Debian is going to go down that route anyway. Perhaps this could be a real gain for the BSDs?

    1. Re:Gnome3, systemd etc. by mvdwege · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In fact, someone on the Phoronix forums posted a bunch of links to Joey's debian-devel posts which seems to bear this out.

      Especially the first one is a clanger. If you can't support systemd on technical grounds without getting threats, something is very toxic indeed.

      And no, that first post is not directly related to the Debian Constitution. That the idiotic GR trying to override the Technical Committee decision two weeks before the Jessie freeze is inspired by this kind of drivel, and that the Constitution makes these kind of purely political overrides of the technical decisions possible is rather evident though.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    2. Re:Gnome3, systemd etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was kind of neutral about systemd until I realized that the only way to get centralized logging out of systemd boxes is to turn on syslog mode (journald has no concept of network transport).

      At that point, I realized that the systemd developers aren't actually server admins.

    3. Re: Gnome3, systemd etc. by Delicious+Pun · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I disagree. The point of being in a community is to... be a part of a community. As you describe it, there is no community, there are just two groups of people. Developers and users. If the users don't like what the developers are doing, the developers are free to leave. They will be replaced by people who respect others in the community. Users are important too. Even if they don't file bug reports. They are your promoters. More users means more promoters, more promoters means more potential developers. Those developers will replace the "my way or the highway" devs that are currently taking charge.

    4. Re:Gnome3, systemd etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This makes no sense. In the past to get network logging you needed to install a syslog daemon. And with systemd you still need to install a syslog daemon. What's the big deal?

    5. Re:Gnome3, systemd etc. by jbolden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But they should probably not be introduced before they are completely bug-free -- or at least more bug-free then the thing they will replace.

      Mature software is almost always vastly less buggy than newer feature rich software. In any cycle of improvement the less buggy software is replaced with more feature rich software.

      And considering that the *ix world is full of people who don't like change

      I don't know that. I think there is a some change resistance in Linux now that didn't used to exist. The Unix world used to love change. I think it is a generational shift since the early 2000s. But the Android user base which is the vast majority of the *ix world seems pretty happy with the changes. As do iOS and OSX users. And frankly most Linux desktop users like systemd. And frankly most server people are using cloud solutions which either have or will shortly be switching to systemd easily to take advantage of those features.

      There is a vocal minority what doesn't like this change.

      doesn't solve the problem

      Of course it does solve the problem which means you are just making stuff up.

  3. Re:What does he mean? by dotancohen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What does he specifically mean?

    He means that Debian, like many other FOSS projects, needs Giving Trees to drain.

    Joey was one such tree, and all that is left now is a stump. Others are at various stages of being just a trunk, or perhaps having a few branches left. The Giving Trees are being chopped down faster than they are being planted.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  4. GNOME-ish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    The entire philosophy has been poisoned from the start.

    It can be summed up as "We know best what you want and need."

  5. Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't care what skill you may or may not have, all developers are the same: Random and often wrong.

    I say this as a developer myself for 30+ years. We are esoteric, egotistical, opinionated, and often, very often, wrong when it comes to the overall picture, prediction of future trends, and proper leadership. This is why I always try to seek out leaders that can guide my skill to success. I know for a fact that I suck at understanding the high-level world.

  6. Re:Unfortunate, but not surprising by ruir · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have been using Debian since 1996, and *BSD occasionally. Now I am waiting for Monday and FreeBSD 10.1. Will be testing it in the next months. I do not want to reach Debian 9 and having systemd shoved down my throat. Had the unpleasant experience of having to pin systemd to -1 to not having it installed by default when updating a couple of Debian servers to Jessie.

  7. Re:What does he mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, it does replace 69 services

    And since when is unaudited code NOT a technical gripe?

    Lightweight? Bullshit. Yet another systemd fanboi who spouts rhetoric and flat out lies and ignores technical complaints. There's so many fucking things wrong with systemd that you can't even list them in a post on Slashdot. Like the fact that the journal gets corrupted and Poettering considers it not a bug. Like the fact that it was rolled out without network logging support--but the logger you're forced to use in between an external logger is known to corrupt logs. These things are technical gripes and an absolute deal-breaker for environments which need auditability.

    Fucking idiot.