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Uber's Android App Caught Reporting Data Back Without Permission

Zothecula writes Security researcher GironSec has pulled Uber's Android app apart and discovered that it's sending a huge amount of personal data back to base – including your call logs, what apps you've got installed, whether your phone is vulnerable to certain malware, whether your phone is rooted, and your SMS and MMS logs, which it explicitly doesn't have permission to do. It's the latest in a series of big-time missteps for a company whose core business model is, frankly, illegal in most of its markets as well.

157 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about Google does something about it? Like remove the app and takes Uber to court? I'm sure they can find a few terms in the app developer contract that they have violated.

    1. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or, you know, actually give us actual app permissions control so we can prevent it from retrieving this information in the first place, rather than having to agree that Happy Fluffy Kitty Screensaver can send text messages and read all my contacts or not install it at all?

    2. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can do this with the cyanogenmod privacy manager. Of course, then you have to root your phone. Adding that functionality ought to be a no-brainer, but Google owns Youtube and Youtube just HAS to have access to your phone's camera for some reason. I'm guessing so they can watch you while you're masturbating.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    3. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Tukz · · Score: 2

      If you think that's bad, don't look at what Facebook Messenger wants access to.

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    4. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What do you mean "have to agree"? In what sense do you "have" to? I've certainly never agreed (and in fact don't have Uber's app or other similar "ask for everything under the sun" apps), and have detected no one attempting to compel me to agree to anything I don't want to agree to.

      Have we lost any and all ability as a culture to say "no" to things that are obviously unreasonable? That's all you have to do. Look at the list of permissions, decide that's too much, and refuse to install the app. It's really not hard. I do it at least once a week. You can too.

      I swear, our culture has a 2 year old's mentality: "but i WAAAAAANT it!!!"

    5. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by jareth-0205 · · Score: 5, Informative

      How about Google does something about it? Like remove the app and takes Uber to court? I'm sure they can find a few terms in the app developer contract that they have violated.

      Worse than that, Google an an invester of Uber. They have put in $250million, they should just go and demand that Uber stop fucking about.

    6. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      If you think that's bad, don't look at what Facebook Messenger wants access to.

      I did. That's why I uninstalled the Facebook app some time back.

    7. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by SternisheFan · · Score: 2

      If you didn't use the app on one of your devices, you didn't agree to the terms and conditions. Out of sheer curiosity, I tried it for an hour, then uninstalled. Getting Uber to delete my personal info meant searching online for help, and writing emails. Uber did get back to me within a day or so and confirmed my info got deleted.

    8. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this is the real problem. Non-granular permissions.

      If the app wants to be able to make/receive a phone call for the service, that seems reasonable. But the fact that giving that permission allows NSA level metadata access just seems fundamentally broken. And that is entirely on Google's head.

    9. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Too late. Facebook has all your data already. So can just as well continue using it.

      It has some of my data, but I stopped updating it when it started demanding permissions I wasn't willing to give it. It doesn't have any future data.

    10. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by stoploss · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can do this with the cyanogenmod privacy manager. Of course, then you have to root your phone.

      Unless they have changed their stance since CM7, the privacy manager sucks compared to XPrivacy because XPrivacy will allow spoofing of data. If a permission is flatly blocked instead of spoofed then many apps will force close due to exceptions being thrown. XPrivacy lets me keep my privacy without app force closes. Anyway, the CM devs used to be adamant that they would never allow spoofing because it would interfere with app devs data mining user data. It's one of the reasons I parted ways with CM. Maybe they have changed their position, though.

      Besides, XPrivacy, while it requires root, does *not* require a whole custom rom. Custom ROMs are passe compared to what the XPosed framework can do, and XPrivacy is an excellent example of an XPosed module.

    11. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Not to worry ... Twitter wants in on that action.

      "To help build a more personal Twitter experience for you, we are collecting and occasionally updating the list of apps installed on your mobile device so we can deliver tailored content that you might be interested in," the company said.

      Yeah, no, thanks.

      Didn't want your app before. Don't want it now.

      This whole "free to use, but we get all your data" model of software is producing some pretty shitty stuff which is actively hostile to your privacy.

      The only way to win is to not even play. Sorry, but I don't need your app.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    12. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      >Besides, XPrivacy, while it requires root, does *not* require a whole custom rom. Custom ROMs are passe compared to what the XPosed framework can do, and XPrivacy is an excellent example of an XPosed module.

      I don't XPect to like programs with an XTremely crappy habit of putting unnecessary Xs in front of words.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    13. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But, cynically, how would you even know?

      If they're collecting stuff against the app permissions, WTF would you trust them when they say "oh, sure, we've deleted your stuff".

      If they collected anything beyond what they had explicit permissions for, you have to assume everything else is a bloody lie.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    14. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by hankwang · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Unless they have changed their stance since CM7, the privacy manager sucks compared to XPrivacy because XPrivacy will allow spoofing of data. If a permission is flatly blocked instead of spoofed then many apps will force close"

      Well, they did. CM11 has a privacy manager that will allow you to block access to contacts and so on, without making apps crash. I have set it up such that it will notify me whenever an app tries to access contacts, sms, calendar, location and it is surprising how few suspicious popups I get. One weird thing: wifi related apps need location access in order to show access points. Makes some sense, but it took me a while to realize why those apps weren't working.

    15. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by AJWM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This -- although I don't even need your phone.

      These days smartphones might as well just be GPS house-arrest bracelets with better PR.

      --
      -- Alastair
    16. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've switched to a prepaid $50 Nokia Lumina 520(paid for entirely in cash including the minutes). They can still interogate the people from my call logs to find out who the phone belongs to, or GPS track it to my house using Carrier IQ, but atleast I'm not spoonfeeding it to them. Since it's a windows phone, I only use it for wifi tethering my Google Voice number/Google Hangouts to the 4G LTE network.

      I have Whatsapp on my old burner cell phone I use for international travel... Tons of stupid android apps. Terrible battery life!

      I say this as an App developer: Google really needs to clean house. I know the permissions configuration while writing an app encourages asking for everything so the code will compile, but all the same: the Carriers cock-blocking Android updates for 6-15 months(so they can "lame it up" with their stupid skins that nobody wants) is a HUGE security problem and probably one of the reasons why BYOD is so dangerous to corporate networks if done incorrectly. The privacy issue with being unable to firewall your contacts list, SMS history, and Photos is a major problem. One solution would be for every phone to have two contacts lists, SMS logs, and Photo albums set where you have to specifically move your private data in to the "everyone can see this shit" section where the Apps can go nuts.

      Another solution would be to force all apps to ex-filtrate data through a Google monitored intermediary. This could be done at the kernel level by Android forcing the issue via their API. All outbound network traffic could be MITMed Transparently to the App developers. Sort of a "Privacy IDS"/MITM which is encrypted between the App and Google, and Google/the App's back-end servers. Would it cause higher latency? Probably(but they could have a "Privacy Certified" alternative where the App has to have it's Source Code reviewed by Google before going through the "Play" app store). Fascist? Yup! Necessary? Seems so!

      Google could just start banning developers from their store caught misbehaving but that doesn't really scale well.

    17. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by runningduck · · Score: 2

      More to the point, why is it even possible for a third party app to access this much informaiton?

      --
      -rd
    18. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      What about "Gn"s or "K"s?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    19. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Wootery · · Score: 2

      The usual excuse is but what if we confuse someone!?

      Mozilla, too, are a fan of this sort of reasoning.

    20. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by kaladorn · · Score: 2

      There are permissions viewers, but you may also find permission managers. I have one installed but my phone is charging.

      Not sure if the app has been borked by updates since the last time I went and used it to revoke some permissions after installation. It may have been. Google has tampered a bunch with security settings.

      I usually go adjust the permissions after installation but before first execution.

      Ultimately, people should light a fire under Google to force app publishers to only request perms they really need and to allow users to disable any perms they don't like (and encourage app devs to not make that break their app - modular enable-able/disable-able app functionality please!). Of course, that may be hard. If they still can't do a f***ing table of contents in Google Docs with page numbers, there isn't much hope they can get this right or will pay attention to massive outcry. In some ways, Google is a metric pantload of nerds doing nerd things and ignoring anyone that might actually use their apps. Microsoft, for all its flaws, was often more customer responsive than Google has been. Just sayin'.

      --
      -- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
    21. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This kind of mistrust is really a problem for todays society.

      Sure they're tracking your phone and the apps it's got on it.
      OK, so they're keeping notes on your SMS logs too.
      Yes they are also collecting your calls logs because... reasons.
      They also have a good idea about which attack vectors could be used to target your phone for malware too. This is important for them because... well, I'm not sure but I am sure that they only have the best intentions.

      But they have basically pinky-sworn that it's all just a big misunderstanding and they have effectively gone as far as to say "stick a needle in my eye" that they have definitely not used any of that information improperly and they're totes deleting it all, so all is well.

      Give them a break. It's not like they've been caught stealing or anything.

    22. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How about Google does something about it?

      Google can do something about it ... but doesn't want to. Because Google's business model is data collection:

      Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android

    23. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by stoploss · · Score: 1

      Interesting that they reversed themselves on that. Guess it became untenable for them to continue to choose the app developers' interest in data mining over the userbase's desire for privacy.

      My point about custom roms being passe still stands. With a custom rom one is tied to accept the rom devs feature set and mods as an all or nothing deal. Conversely, with XPosed one can pick and choose which features to load and still keep access to OTA Android updates.

      I've compiled my own custom ROMs from source and even submitted features patches accepted into CM in the past, but I don't anticipate going back to that approach, especially now that I found how easy it is to code runtime interception with XPosed.

    24. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      I just didn't like the idea that my credit card info was on their servers when I had no intention of ever using Uber. An Uber employee sent me an email in a timely manner confirming she had indeed deleted my information. Best I can do.

    25. Re: So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Really? My Nexus 5 is getting all kind of Google crap (Fit, Games, Music, etc..) on every update. Only some of them can be uninstalled, and they still pop up on the update. I don't have a single HP printer in my house, but also that preinstalled HP-printer-stuff still tries to sneak into my phone on updates. Thanks to this, I will never buy HP either.

    26. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      I uninstalled years ago it after rejecting its new permissions that wanted to look into my phone history.

      But if you want to think that your info is already out there and you might as well let it happen... fine by me. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    27. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      "It doesn't have any future data."

      You hope not, anyway. If they have an accurate image of you, and/or if you tagged any "friends" who supply information about you - you're a little bit fokked. It may not be necessary for you to maintain an account for Facebook to update your status - alive, dead, incarcerated, employed, unemployed, married, on the prowl, whatever.

      As for actual future data - seen any good movies lately?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    28. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 1

      What about "Gn"s or "K"s?

      I don't iKnow.

    29. Re: So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Repeat after me: "Android is an ad-presentment platform." Effective privacy controls would interfere with that.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    30. Re:So, in essence, Uber's app is malware by S.O.B. · · Score: 1

      You guys make me want to eGurgitate (tm).

      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
  2. Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

    If the app does not have permission to access these personal data, then why is Android giving it access? The solution to privacy is not trust, but robust security. No app should be able to access my call logs or other personal data unless I give explicit permission.

  3. Spoofing by korbulon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Tangentially, does anyone know of a procedure on Android which enables you to spoof your personal data and activity (at least as far as apps are concerned)?

    Example: your name is Dorothy and you're in Kansas clicking your red ruby slippers together, but all apps see you as Toto, living down in Africa, blessing the rains.

    1. Re:Spoofing by Billhead · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I haven't tried it yet but I think the Xposed module XPrivacy module can do that.

    2. Re:Spoofing by digitalchinky · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You need root, XPosed and XPrivacy allow you to give bogus info to apps. The UI could use a little work but you get a deep level of control over app permissions. Along side auto run manager and a firewall of some kind and you pretty much have a non leaky tame android.

    3. Re:Spoofing by Solandri · · Score: 1

      As others have pointed out, XPrivacy does exactly that. Unfortunately, it runs on top of the Xposed Framework, which was coded assuming Dalvik. ART breaks it, and Lollipop has switched over entirely to ART. According to the developer it's going to be a monumental task rewriting it to work under ART, and not to expect anything until 2015.

      I've fallen back to my old standby - Droidwall. It's an iptables firewall. Doesn't help with the apps which need Internet access to function, but works on everything else. They can collect all the information they want. It's useless to them if the app can't phone home.

    4. Re:Spoofing by riondluz · · Score: 1

      What you said!

      For /. - anyone who freqs here should have learned how2 then rooted their droids ASAP. No different from exercising control of their linux boxen.

      I like, in concept at least, the notion of android; though i'll drop it instantly for a true linux based phone using 'certified' apt/yum... repos.

      I think, in many ways, that just as www lowered the bar to self-publishing android has done the same for app development; so easy a cave-man can do it.

      Just compare the gross number of apps out there to those available in repository to see the difference.

      Google serves its own interests for sure, but 'the more apps the better' is not much different from 'many ways to do one thing' The onus/burden has always been on the end-user to choose wisely.

      Anyone who doesn't take the time to understand the working of the devices they trust to compute and communicate deserves what they get.

      --
      resist propaganda
    5. Re:Spoofing by markdavis · · Score: 1

      Root:

      Yep, and then some possibly important apps no longer work due to them being locked down. Example: the TiVo streaming video app. And no "masking root" type app works, which sucks.

  4. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Because some idiot decided to strip the security out of Linux to make Android. No Android app is safe, auto updates of a safe app can make it unsafe with no notice to the user. They took the safest OS there is and made a Frankenstein POS out of it to make it user friendly.

  5. Twitter snooping into your medicine cabinet, too by theodp · · Score: 2, Informative
  6. It DOES have permission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I just went to the google play store page for Uber, and checked the permissions the app requires. It includes:

    Read your Contacts, take pictures, status and identity, modify system settings, read google service configuration, and a host of others.

    So, based on this (admittedly limited) information, it doesn't seem to be bypassing google security so much as utilizing the proper channels to claim superior access to the user's phone.

    And in this, it is not alone. The majority of apps on the play store require all these permissions, and google will not give users explicit control over these permissions for two reasons:

    1) Users will break their own apps and then google will take the heat for it (you KNOW this will happen, a LOT)
    2) Vendors will hate the sandbox that users put them in, and google will take the heat for that (and lose a lot of free apps that represent a competitive advantage for google).

    I am not saying this is right, but this is a natural response to the incentives google faces.

    1. Re:It DOES have permission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's a simple solution to this, and one that Apple has applied successfully to Uber - make it a condition to get into the store that you don't request permissions you don't need to do the app's job. Uber for iOS doesn't require access to all this stuff. I'd bet heavily that that's because Apple told them to go fuck themselves until they sorted it out.

    2. Re:It DOES have permission by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agreed. It's absurd how many apps require all these permissions to be installed.

      If you want the app, you agree to that.
      I still haven't upgraded Waze since their new "social" integration required a ton more privileges, mostly to phone private info. And this despite running XPrivacy - I just can't be bothered to go through the whitelisting for it, when current version works well enough. Ditto the updated Google Search app.

      It'd be nice if apps had a base set of privs then expanded sets that could be allowed on install or later by request to the system/user. Also it'd be nice if the privileges were a lot more restricted, like "Use Ad Service to show you ads" instead of "Use Internet"

      So, I installed a little Fisher Price Animals app for kid, and set XPrivacy to "ask" mode. On startup, XPrivacy popups popped up indicating the app wanted my Localisation, Phone Identity, Telephone (calling/numbers - probably just so the app could know when a call was coming in if a kid was playing, but still, the sort of broad category Android requires for something like that), Sensors, some Shell cpu thingy I couldn't be bothered to figure out, but that it seems to run just fine without, and, Shell lib calls for the animal sounds.
      But, yeah, you allow broad categories, some inoccuous, some just 'cause they want to know how many users they have or something, and, surprise!

      --
      -- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"' /. ate my old sig. Bastards.
    3. Re:It DOES have permission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile Apple does it the right way in iOS (users are given granular control enforced by the OS itself rather than the honor system) and doesn't seem to be suffering the ire of users or app developers because nothing is broken by it.

    4. Re:It DOES have permission by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

      I just went to the google play store page for Uber, and checked the permissions the app requires. It includes:

      Read your Contacts, take pictures, status and identity, modify system settings, read google service configuration, and a host of others.

      So, based on this (admittedly limited) information, it doesn't seem to be bypassing google security so much as utilizing the proper channels to claim superior access to the user's phone.

      What I don't understand is the SMS claim. Is Uber exploiting a vulnerability to get SMS data or do these other permissions somehow grant some kind of access to SMS as well?

      There is a whole group of SMS privileges and according to the app store not a single one is being claimed... so what gives?

    5. Re:It DOES have permission by Kingkaid · · Score: 4, Informative

      Agreed. I have the windows app of Uber and its permissions are significantly more limited.

    6. Re:It DOES have permission by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      The problem is that permissions are not granular at all.

      Make a phone call through app seems reasonable. But the permissions allows ALL phone data access. NSA metadata level. It's an all or nothing permission.

      Google needs to get their shit together.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    7. Re:It DOES have permission by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      And people still don't know what or why the app is asking for permissions and the vast majority will click yes anyway, resulting in exactly the same condition.

      Not if my girlfriend is anything to go by. Her default when some app asks for an unexpected permission on her iPad is 'no'.

      Most people can tell that Happy Fluffy Kitty Screensaver doesn't really need to send SMS messages, know your location, or access the Internet.

    8. Re:It DOES have permission by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Google needs to get their shit together.

      Google's "shit" is collecting your personal information to use to sell advertising. So, from that perspective, it's mission accomplished.

      There isn't a whole lot of ways to reconcile how Google wants to make money from Android, with a desire user privacy.

      My best guess is Google has crippled the privacy to ensure that commercial interests trump privacy interests.

      Do you think they're going to provide an ability for users to kill off advertising in apps? Especially when Google profits from this?

      My guess is this "simplified" permissions model they rolled out this year was specifically designed to ensure better access for apps.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    9. Re:It DOES have permission by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I really didn't expect Google to let those selling ads to collect less data :-)

      More like android users actually need to get their shit together.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    10. Re:It DOES have permission by GuldKalle · · Score: 1

      A third possibility is that the sms collection code is in the program, but is never actually called.

      --
      What?
    11. Re:It DOES have permission by AJWM · · Score: 2

      Most people can tell that Happy Fluffy Kitty Screensaver doesn't really need to send SMS messages, know your location, or access the Internet.

      Why does a phone even need a screensaver?

      --
      -- Alastair
    12. Re:It DOES have permission by m.dillon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, in fact the vast majority of people who run an IOS app on an Apple device who see a permission request pop up that they don't like, say 'No', and the app continues to run just fine.

      Even better, the apps on IOS tend not to request absurd permissions in the first place because they know those pop-ups will annoy their customers enough to either say 'no' anyway or not use the app in the first place. Its a black blotch for an IOS app to request permissions that it does not need, and Apple customers call them on it in the reviews.

      Whereas with android, everything is quiet and silent and people run apps without really understanding what data they are giving away, EVEN if they have read the manifest... so app writers can get away with almost anything and consumer privacy on android is poorer for it.

      -Matt

    13. Re:It DOES have permission by kaladorn · · Score: 1

      There are tools that will let you edit app permissions after installation to remove some of them. Or at least I have installed and used those in past and hoped they worked. In some cases, apps check at startup and bork themselves like petulant children if they don't get what they want (even if they didn't need it) but others seem to run fine without the extraneous permissions (like ones that would allow linking to social media that I don't use so the function never gets invoked).

      Ultimately, I should never have to enable an app feature that I will never use and should never have to grant permissions except as needed for the features I actually use. PC apps got this long ago (for the most part). Mobile apps have taken terrible directions in this respect.

      --
      -- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
    14. Re:It DOES have permission by ultranova · · Score: 1

      There isn't a whole lot of ways to reconcile how Google wants to make money from Android, with a desire user privacy.

      Not if you want to keep your private information private from Google, of course, but there's no reason why Uber or Clash of Whatever need to get in on the fun, or even know what targeted advertisements are being shown - they'll just need to designate a screen area for the operating system to draw the adverts in, and call fullScreenAdvertisement() at suitable points.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    15. Re:It DOES have permission by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Except they have. There's a logical explanation for each of the requests it makes. If the uber app on Apple has less permissions than the android one then it also has less functionality as there is a feature listed against every permission the app is requesting.

      This is not about normal functionality though. This is about a breach of trust with granted functionality. It would be like me making an sms app which can automatically download fluffy kitten photos from the internet, and then using the fact that both sms and internet are fundamental features of the app to send all your sms to my secret server. Neither Google nor Apple control what happens to the app after a permission is granted. Once the app has access to something it has access to do with it what it pleases.

    16. Re:It DOES have permission by adolf · · Score: 1

      I still haven't upgraded Waze since their new "social" integration required a ton more privileges, mostly to phone private info. And this despite running XPrivacy - I just can't be bothered to go through the whitelisting for it, when current version works well enough.

      Chances are good that Google already knows everything about your contacts. Google wholly owns Waze.

      What is the difference?

    17. Re:It DOES have permission by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 1

      Google could in fact be sending it all home without using sync (which is off) but seems a rather risky thing for them to do if caught.
      Anyway, isn't just Waze doing this.

      --
      -- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"' /. ate my old sig. Bastards.
  7. Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Summary: I found a function called InAuthManager.getInstance().sendSMSLog(this.val$transID) so it must be sending all my SMS messages to their servers.

    The reality is that it is probably sending a log of SMS activity that were initiated through the Uber application.

    1. Re:Summary by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2

      A redditor suggested that Uber was using a third-party library and the functions found may never be called at all. But looking into if they were ever actually used or not would get in the way of a good old fashioned witch hunt!

  8. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Android isn't "allowing" the app to do anything, it acts like every other Android app. The .manifest defines what capabilities it has, when you install an app it tells you exactly what it's capable of doing.

    You're absolutely right, no app should be able to access your "call logs or other personal data" unless you give "explicit permission." The problem is that, seeing as how you obviously ignored the stated permissions in the first place, it's no surprise that you obviously ignored the licensing for most of these apps, a great number of which require you to hand over all that information just for the privilege of using it.

    So yes, you're right. No app should be able to take your personal information without your consent. That isn't what's happening. The problem is that you're giving them your consent by using the software, you're just too lazy and ignorant to bother actually reading the legal terms, to take the five seconds or so it takes to scan the list of capabilities and permissions the app supposedly "requires" to run.

    You hand the stuff over to them, you have nobody to blame but yourself. You certainly can't blame Android for "allowing" it because it doesn't "allow" it unless you EXPLICITLY ALLOW IT YOURSELF. The Uber app isn't a virus, it doesn't install itself through some unpatched exploit. It straight up tells you what it can do and asks you if you want to install it. Unlike the iPhone it even tells you EXACTLY what the app CAN do, so you should know full well what it COULD do long before you installed it. You choose to ignore that information? You get what you deserve. Truth hurts, I know, but blaming Android for your own, personal failings and naievety makes you look really fucking stupid.

  9. Xprivacy and rooted for the win.. by popoutman · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Makes me very happy that I have XPrivacy installed on my rooted S4 Active, and I now have a fine-grained security model with the ability to control what apps have access to what.

    It was an eyeopener to see some apps that were misbehaving or just outright being illegal. My flashlight app now only controls the LED on the rear, and cannot see any of my private details - and they earned themselves a 1-star review..

    --
    - This sig deliberately left blank. Nothing to see, move along.
  10. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    Nobody knows about permissions. People just press "Accept".

    The why does the summary say otherwise? According to the summary, the app is accessing data which it explicitly doesn't have permission to do.

  11. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    OK, so I want to use their taxi service, but their app demands permissions it obviously doesn't need. Android gives me an option of installing it or not installing it.

    Now what do you suggest I do?

    Android's permission model is completely broken. It's the Windows of the modern world.

  12. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    Well, the problem is apps ask for every damned permission just in case, and give little explanations as to why. That whole permission which says "this can cost you money" ... WTF does that mean? In what context?

    And the other thing is Google won't give the ability to have discrete permissions on apps, or come back later and revoke some. I frequently get annoyed because I can't think of a single reason why an app actually needs a given permission.

    Now, if the app can access this stuff even if it has no permission -- then, yes, this is indicative of the fact that security in Android is crap to begin with.

    I've said for a while, what I really want is the ability to go into an an app, and selectively turn off individual permissions. And the ability to click something which says "revert permissions to requested".

    It's my damned device, I want control over it.

    But, am I really surprised that every app is likely accessing far more than it should because greedy corporations feel entitled to it? No, sadly, not at all.

    I have no interest in Uber. But hearing this, I have even less -- because they're either shady, or incompetent. Neither of which is good.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  13. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Russ1642 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You either accept all permissions, without explanation, or you can't install the app. Android needs to give people the ability to deny individual permissions, without having to root your phone and install Cyanogenmod or the like.

  14. They just took Google's motto by Rei · · Score: 1

    and tweaked the punctuation a bit, from "Don't Be Evil" to "Don't, Be Evil!"

    BTW, am I the first one to notice that Uber is an anagram of "Rube"?

    --
    You look beautiful! Incidentally, my favorite artist is Picasso.
  15. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by gstoddart · · Score: 2

    Your options are:

    1) Uninstall it, get on with your life.
    2) Decide this is so important you don't care about your privacy
    3) Root your device and install something which gives you granular control.

    From what I've been able to ascertain, rooting my first gen Nexus 7 is hit and miss, and I've not yet decided to take that step.

    Me, I've mostly decided I need fewer apps, run my tablet in airplane mode most of the time, and would rather use a web browser than most apps.

    As you said, Android's permission model is completely broken. Which means I've mostly decided I don't trust what it's telling me.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  16. Traditional taxis and payphones by mi · · Score: 1

    core business model is, frankly, illegal in most of its markets as well.

    We sure are lucky, pay-phones weren't able to legally block the introduction and use of cell-phones. From what I hear, we weren't quite as lucky with horse-drawn carriages being obsoleted by autos — but sanity prevailed.

    Now the traditional — licensed — taxis are being obsoleted by Uber and the likes and that is a good thing, even if the taxi industry and the rent-seeking city halls don't like it.

    All, that cabbie-licenses told you, was that the local town considers the driver (if it is even the same man!) and his car to be compliant with its requirements. Well, Uber does the same sort of vouching for you, the consumer. And they are able to provide that guarantee faster and at (much) lower cost. Sure, there are cases of Uber-drivers going bad, but it happens to taxis too.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Traditional taxis and payphones by westlake · · Score: 1

      From what I hear, we weren't quite as lucky with horse-drawn carriages being obsoleted by autos --- but sanity prevailed.

      pretty much the only self-propelled vehicles on the roads between 1860 and 1890 were steam powered agricultural tractors and traction engines, heavy haulers, sometimes known as road locomotives.

      massive, powerful machines, but vey slow and difficult to maneuver.

      the requirement for a flag man and other restrictions were not half so ridiculous as the geek makes them sound.

    2. Re:Traditional taxis and payphones by mi · · Score: 1

      It's not the idea behind Uber that's the issue

      The piece of the write-up, that I quoted: "core business model is, frankly, illegal in most of its markets as well," — shows, that — for some, at least — the very idea behind is an issue as well.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    3. Re:Traditional taxis and payphones by mi · · Score: 1

      massive, powerful machines, but vey slow and difficult to maneuver.

      the requirement for a flag man and other restrictions were not half so ridiculous

      If they were, as you say, massive and very slow, then the red-flag requirement is ridiculous. How could a man with the flag possibly increase the passers-by already abundant awareness of something, that is massive (and noisy, I might add) and slow?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  17. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They took the safest OS there is and made a Frankenstein POS out of it to make it user friendly.

    Or they (google) made android such that it was more easy to spy/track people. User-friendliness has nothing to do with tracking. Why do games need access to call logs, need to launched at android startup, need access to your contact list? None. Yet, 90% of the top-downloaded games in the play store need access to your private data. Google is evil since they allow this without doing anything about it.

    Not sure why uber is being singled out, because many, many apps do the same exact invasion of privacy.

  18. Hubris by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    The hubris of Uber will be its undoing. They are quickly and loudly showing their true colors. One could only hope that enough drivers wise up to the Uber mafia and organize a labor stoppage to teach them a lesson in free market economics.

  19. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't install it.

    You'll be okay. There are other ways to get a taxi. I promise.

  20. Not the only app by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

    My mom has an android tablet and whenever we check what an app (mostly games) asks for, it's astounding. Why is a game asking for contacts, call logs (ok, in her case not a problem), and other info? some info like geolocation is fine (at the limit), but Google really should do a big cleanup.

    Say what you will about iOS, but being more restrictive about what an app can fetch is not a bad thing.

    --
    I've got better things to do tonight than die.
  21. Re:It's a storage site by ISoldat53 · · Score: 2

    Turn off your sarcasm filter.

  22. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Google didn't create Android, they backed it and later bought it. The original developers thought users were too dumb to use Linux, so they dumbed it down by stripping the security out of it to make it user friendly.

  23. Granting permission requests shouldn't be automati by Dorianny · · Score: 1

    As part of the app approval process developers should be required to explain why they want certain sensitive permissions, such as access to contacts, messages etc. Google should then deny approval of apps that overreach in terms of permission requests.

  24. Incorrect analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Incorrect analysis by the original blog. Please see this nextweb article which clarifies
    http://thenextweb.com/apps/2014/11/27/ubers-app-malware-despite-may-read/

    1. Re:Incorrect analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Mod parent up. The summary and the article are complete lies. The summary/article is claiming the app was caught sending the data. Looking at the actual original blog post mentioned by the article, some person decompiled the uber app code, and they found some suspiciously named functions that suggest the app might look up data it should not. They never claimed that the app actually sent any of their data, in fact they specifically say there may not be an issue. The parent's linked article actually shows some (limited) analysis done by someone who was actually intercepting device traffic, and there was nothing suspicious.
       
      A more accurate title would be "Uber app contains suspicious looking method names, more analysis needed"

    2. Re:Incorrect analysis by ironicallysarcastic2 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The analysis of the original blog is inaccurate and completely blown out of proportion.

    3. Re:Incorrect analysis by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      "Suspicious" is an understatement. Here's the offending code:

      public void run()
            {
              Looper.prepare();
              InAuthManager.getInstance().updateLogConfig(this.val$URL, this.val$acctGUID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendAccountsLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendAppActivityLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendAppDataUsageLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendAppInstallLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendBatteryLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendDeviceInfoLog(this.val$transID, true);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendGPSLog(this.val$transID, true);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendMMSLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendNetDataLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendPhoneCallLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendSMSLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendTelephonyInfoLog(this.val$transID, true);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendWifiConnectionLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendWifiNeighborsLog(this.val$transID);
            }
          });

      I don't know about you, but Occam's Razor here clearly indicates that they are data mining. The fact that a guy with a packet sniffer didn't see it on the wire doesn't really prove anything, unless he specifically did whatever action is necessary to cause the above snippet of code to run, which it doesn't sound like what he did.

  25. über alles by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Uber wants "Uber über alles!"

  26. It's entirely Google's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Google has deliberately made it impossible to install an Android app and then subsequently block it from phoning home. This is possible under every other operating system that runs on a Linux kernel, but they've not provided this user choice on Android.

    We are given only two choices, either install an app and kiss your privacy goodbye, or don't install the app at all.

    Google are extremely hostile to user privacy, and this is just one more example of it.

  27. XPosed and XPrivacy will lie for you! by atrimtab · · Score: 1

    But you need to "Root" your phone.

    See: http://repo.xposed.info/ for info on installing the Xposed framework which basically places a hook into the main event loop of Android where Xposed modules like XPrivacy can watch, block or "lie" to most of the rest of the Apps running within Android.

    XPrivacy is available here:

    http://repo.xposed.info/module...

    And BTW, iPhone Apps are not any better about this stuff like phoning home and spying on you unless they are rooted and modified. It is just that the greater openness of Android platform ersus iOS makes it easier to spot. But that also means that there are more and better countermeasures.

    If you want to be shocked take your phone place it in WiFi only mode and then use network packet sniffer on all the data flying by like tcpdump or wireshark while using apps on it. You will then realize that you the purchaser of the device does not "truly own" that device as it is delivered.

    You can also replace the stock Android OS with Cyanogenmod:

    http://www.cyanogenmod.org/

    to gain better control of your device.

    --
    Facebook is billions of individual "Skinner Boxes." And if you use it you are the pigeon!
    1. Re:XPosed and XPrivacy will lie for you! by dugancent · · Score: 1

      iPhone apps can't access call logs, installed apps, messages or pretty much anything else. They are sandboxed.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    2. Re: XPosed and XPrivacy will lie for you! by Karlt1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And BTW, iPhone Apps are not any better about this stuff like phoning home and spying on you unless they are rooted and modified. It is just that the greater openness of Android platform ersus iOS makes it easier to spot. But that also means that there are more and better countermeasures.

      IOS doesn't allow any app to have most of those permissions. Even in case like Contacts (as of iOS 8), there is a new API that allows the user to select the contact within the app using an OS provided picker and the app only has access to the contact the user chose.

      You can also turn off permissions granularly once an app is installed.

  28. Re:Nextweb clarifies on the issue by ironicallysarcastic2 · · Score: 1

    Relieved to see the nextweb tested it out and found the claims in the original blog to be incorrect

  29. Re:Have you ever used Android? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes you are correct, however what are you supposed to do?

    It's all or nothing with Android. It's not like you can exchange your phone for a different platform that has better permissions if you decide it's too much.

    Google should change the way it works.

  30. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    So yes, you're right. No app should be able to take your personal information without your consent. That isn't what's happening. The problem is that you're giving them your consent by using the software, you're just too lazy and ignorant to bother actually reading the legal terms, to take the five seconds or so it takes to scan the list of capabilities and permissions the app supposedly "requires" to run.

    The text from TFA is as follows: "and your SMS and MMS logs, which it explicitly doesn't have permission to do."

    What permission in the list of permissions asserted in the manifest grants SMS and MMS log access? Does it access your google account and download data from a backup? How is it doing it? Name the permission which enables this activity.

    You hand the stuff over to them, you have nobody to blame but yourself. You certainly can't blame Android for "allowing" it because it doesn't "allow" it unless you EXPLICITLY ALLOW IT YOURSELF.

    I'm not down with blaming the victim when a platform has been intentionally engineered to fuck over users.

    The Uber app isn't a virus, it doesn't install itself through some unpatched exploit.

    If facts asserted by TFA are correct it is spyware.

    You get what you deserve. Truth hurts, I know, but blaming Android for your own, personal failings and naievety makes you look really fucking stupid.

    Would love to know which permission explicitly grants SMS access.

  31. Re:It's a storage site by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... and it wants to be the Facebook of transportation. "We're collecting all this data to help us make your user experience better. Don't like it - use someone else. Oh wait - we actively sabotage the competition 'cuz we got $1.5 billion thrown at us by crazy investors."

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  32. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If this is your default answer, you're going to have a bad time.

    The problem is with the permissions model of Android. "allow access to make phone calls" also means can see all metadata.

    That's a big WTF right there.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  33. Re: It's a storage site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the world where capital rules. Dont say communism is better, its the world where crazy old alcoholics rule.

  34. I'm shocked by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    Hands up who is surprised by this? Anyone?

    I'm sure a little careful digging in their TOS/EULA and you'll see that you already agreed to give all your secrets to them.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  35. Explanation of Uber permissions... by SternisheFan · · Score: 2, Informative
    Location: Uber needs to know where you are so you can get picked up. Surprise!

    Contacts: For splitting fares with friends, inviting friends to use Uber

    Phone: To call your Uber driver or for them to call you

    Camera/Microphone: Uber has a function that lets you take a photo of your credit card for scanning

    Wi-Fi Connection: Checks if you have internet and attempts to use the WiFi name to help determine your location

    Device ID and Call Information: Allows access to your phone number and a unique ID for your device

    Identity: Allows Android users to sign in and pay with one tap (using the Google Sign-In and Google Wallet services)

    Photos/Media/Files: Uber says this is to “save data and cache mapping vectors.”

    http://thenextweb.com/apps/201...

    1. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by bouldin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Those are legitimate explanations for the app to need said access, but that's not what the article is about. The researcher found Uber was SENDING ALL OF THIS BACK TO UBER'S SERVERS.

      Sorry for yelling, but it's an important point.

      Also, there is no good reason to report back your data pertaining to malware.

    2. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Location: Uber needs to know where you are so you can get picked up. Surprise!

      Contacts: For splitting fares with friends, inviting friends to use Uber

      Phone: To call your Uber driver or for them to call you

      Camera/Microphone: Uber has a function that lets you take a photo of your credit card for scanning

      Wi-Fi Connection: Checks if you have internet and attempts to use the WiFi name to help determine your location

      Device ID and Call Information: Allows access to your phone number and a unique ID for your device

      Identity: Allows Android users to sign in and pay with one tap (using the Google Sign-In and Google Wallet services)

      Photos/Media/Files: Uber says this is to “save data and cache mapping vectors.”

      http://thenextweb.com/apps/201...

      Here's the list of permissions you didn't explain and makes for interesting reading.

      - Identity:
      Add and remove accounts.
      - Photos/Media/Files:
      Access to protected storage.
      Modify or delete files.
      - Other:
      Receive data from Internet.
      Use accounts on the device.
      Read Google service configuration.
      Modify system settings.
      Full network access.

      I've bolded the last three because there's no reason for them. Why does it need full network access and access to Google service configuration. "Receive data from the Internet" is sufficient to download data, full network access means they're uploading quite a bit, combine this with all the other information you're getting and it's extremely suspect.

      Given that Uber has been found to be less than trustworthy before, why do you think they aren't abusing your trust (and personal data)?

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      All of your points are valid ones, imo. Being able to selectively turn off permissions could/should be permitted. Then if a denied permission is needed, the app would inform you that it needs that one permission re-enabled.

    4. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by SternisheFan · · Score: 1
      Phone apps and operating systems have progressed to the point where new privacy laws will need to be enacted.

      It's why I have learned to keep the internet turned off, and force stop any apps that I'm not actively using. I shouldn't have to root my phone just to have granular permissions, that should be an automatic user right.

    5. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      We don't need laws.

      We need a user focused OS. One that cares about the end user.

      Android is an ad focused OS. It cares about generating revenue for its parent company, which is 90+% ads.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by Old+Man+Kensey · · Score: 2

      The researcher found Uber was SENDING ALL OF THIS BACK TO UBER'S SERVERS.

      Sorry for yelling, but it's an important point.

      NO HE DID NOT.

      Sorry for yelling, but it's an important point.

      Go back and read the original GironSec blog post where he even acknowledges explicitly what he (inexcusably, IMHO) failed to do -- that others did after him and surprise! found nothing especially amiss -- before he wrote an inflammatory blog post based on supposition, conjecture and ignorance of context.

      --
      -- Old Man Kensey
    7. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by Old+Man+Kensey · · Score: 1

      Read Google service configuration.
      Modify system settings.
      Full network access.

      I've bolded the last three because there's no reason for them.

      Sure there is. If Uber is doing anything that can't (or for some reason they they don't want to) be handled over HTTP, the app will need full network access. (I don't know what the Uber app uses it for, but apparently WhatsApp uses it for IM communications with other app users.) "Modify system settings" is apparently (per the linked explanation from WhatsApp) the only way to get permission to read system settings. "Read Google service configuration" (again, per previous link) is used for interacting with Google services like Maps, which you can easily imagine why Uber's app would want to do.

      --
      -- Old Man Kensey
    8. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      And a little bit of decompiled code like:

      public void run()
            {
              Looper.prepare();
              InAuthManager.getInstance().updateLogConfig(this.val$URL, this.val$acctGUID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendAccountsLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendAppActivityLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendAppDataUsageLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendAppInstallLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendBatteryLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendDeviceInfoLog(this.val$transID, true);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendGPSLog(this.val$transID, true);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendMMSLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendNetDataLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendPhoneCallLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendSMSLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendTelephonyInfoLog(this.val$transID, true);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendWifiConnectionLog(this.val$transID);
              InAuthManager.getInstance().sendWifiNeighborsLog(this.val$transID);
            }
          });

    9. Re:Explanation of Uber permissions... by bouldin · · Score: 2

      NO HE DID NOT. Sorry for yelling, but it's an important point.

      Yep, I didn't see the NextWeb response until after my post.

      I capitalized that phrase because the poster I was responding to (like many other posters) was confusing accessing data with sending data back to Uber servers. I wanted to draw attention to that distinction.

      Go back and read the original GironSec blog post where he even acknowledges explicitly what he (inexcusably, IMHO) failed to do -- that others did after him and surprise! found nothing especially amiss -- before he wrote an inflammatory blog post based on supposition, conjecture and ignorance of context.

      I re-read the blog post. I guess you mean in the comments section, where someone posts a link to the NextWeb article, GironSec responds:

      I found code that might be used to spy. I didn't say they did. Hidden features. Thanks for linking.

      I don't see that GironSec supposed or assumed anything. The Gizmag blog post did, though.

      GironSec did establish that:

      • The Uber app includes a roottools library that can detect and use root access.
      • The Uber app includes an semi-weaponized library that is marketed as anti-fraud protection for mobile banking

      The next step would be to look through Uber's code and see where it calls these libraries and what triggers the calls. Regardless, this is worthy of security news (and is legitimate research). Uber is not marketed as an anti-fraud, anti-malware tool, and AFAIK it does not advertise extra features on rooted phones.

  36. CyanogenMod by brunes69 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    CyanogenMod and many other ROMs let you control this stuff. I have never found an app that broke due to the CyanogenMod privacy manager. I can't see how it would break because all it does is mock dummy responses for all of these things.

  37. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by oogoliegoogolie · · Score: 4, Informative

    Probably because android has all-or-nothing, non-granular permissions where you have to grant the app access to everything it requests, or else it's 'no app for you!'
    If the app wants to access to your contacts, accounts, phone history, photos, camera, messaging, mail, you give it access or you don't get to install it.

    It's a stupid, dumb, and poorly thought out implementation and google should (?) know better.

  38. Re:It's a storage site by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    I just deleted my uber app and will use left going forward

  39. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

    No Android app is safe, auto updates of a safe app can make it unsafe with no notice to the user.

    Patently not true. If an app needs new permissions in an update it must be explicily accepted by the user.

  40. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by jareth-0205 · · Score: 2

    Google didn't create Android, they backed it and later bought it. The original developers thought users were too dumb to use Linux, so they dumbed it down by stripping the security out of it to make it user friendly.

    I don't really understand how this is 'true'. Linux security doesn't isolate process disk data from each other, anybody can read any part of the disk under the same user, which in practice is all apps a user use because they all run under the user's account. Android has a far *better* security model in this respect because it puts different applications in different users, so they can't get at each other. Also, permissions for system information is far more granular in Android than plain Linux, in Linux you just look at /proc whereas Android has to actually get types of permissions for sensitive data.

  41. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by taustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Google is evil since they allow this without doing anything about it.

    Not sure why uber is being singled out, because many, many apps do the same exact invasion of privacy.

    Not really. Google actively wants this crap because they are an advertising company, and their entire business model depends on destroying all privacy everywhere (except for the privacy of their proprietary database of your private information). If they put in real security for privacy settings for other people's apps, then Google can't track you either.

  42. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by vlueboy · · Score: 1

    It's my damned device, I want control over it.

    That sinking feeling when the Google and Apple we all praise (fractions add up to a whole even if individually we meet in fanboy flamewars here), follow the new normal: we are the PRODUCT, not the consumer. Why accommodate US if it won't make them more cash? This is what happens when the slippery rope can't even be invoked because the system is designed from step 1 so all of us rope-walkers start at the bottom end of the rope, trying to climb up.

    To us who come from Linux's rpm mirrors or open-repositories world, App stores are control freak traps. Amazon Kindle's, Windows 8's, MacOS's... it can be IMPOSSIBLE to just get a direct download link to an installers from them. This takes our self-management and multi-device control away, even for FREE apps. That should be a dead giveaway that something is fishy. These control games happen even if you sign in, and you need root to just retrieve an APK file from google's filesystem for easy reinstall. When you DO NOT want to be forced on a new device to get that one new version, or the app has been *pulled* (flappybird), you're only safe if you hoarded the old one. And we have no good choice.

    It's a bit like the political systems, where all parties give you the same end result, but you still want to perpetuate the feeling of personal choice and keep voting for one, because abstinence is shunned and / or feels dumb.

    On my old Android phone (2.2), if you move apps to an SD card and try to migrate to a bigger card without some serious hoops, the apps just disappear from your dashboard. No idea if this got fixed in 4.x, but it's one more reason I am not jumping to buy a replacement phone just yet. Google's track record for fixing policy "bugs" is not good. And I don't trust technical John Smith EndUsers out there to put pressure to fix those policies, because their mentality is akin to "buy more X" or "go somewhere else"

  43. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

    They are over-charging scumbags with dodgy drivers, why would you want to use them? Don't support them until they sort their act out.

    --
    Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
  44. Re:Have you ever used Android? by m.dillon · · Score: 1

    Google changed the way the permissions are described in order to combine non-invasive permissions and invasive permissions under the same label. Even a person reading the permissions off doesn't really have a clue about how much access the app actually has to their data.

    In anycase, this is why I stopped using Android phones and went with iOS. Apps can't play these sorts of games on iOS.

    -Matt

  45. AT&T made deal with Uber to preinstall the app by postmortem · · Score: 1

    Every AT&T android phone comes with this preinstalled.

  46. Think that's bad by goldcd · · Score: 4, Informative

    Have a look what Citrix Worx asks for (certifier of your phone, so you can look at your work email). Device & app history
    retrieve running apps
    read sensitive log data
    Mobile data settings
    change/intercept network settings and traffic
    Location
    precise location (GPS and network-based)
    Photos / Media / Files
    modify or delete the contents of your USB storage
    test access to protected storage
    Camera / Microphone
    record audio
    Wi-Fi connection information
    view Wi-Fi connections
    Device ID & call information
    read phone status and identity
    Other
    press keys and control buttons
    read frame buffer
    close other apps
    update component usage statistics
    force-stop other apps
    modify secure system settings
    view network connections
    connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi
    full network access
    run at startup
    read battery statistics
    control vibration
    close other apps
    set wallpaper
    install shortcuts
    uninstall shortcuts
    modify system settings
    pair with Bluetooth devices
    draw over other apps

    1. Re:Think that's bad by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      "Other"? Nice! Thanks for that, Google, why bother with the rest?

    2. Re:Think that's bad by adolf · · Score: 3, Informative

      That, actually, doesn't look all too onerous for such a product.

      Of course I want my fancy remote-everything program to be able to manage the network, see the status of the network, use the network, vibrate, pair with devices, manage shortcuts (shortcut to email on the homescreen?), change settings (so that the remote apps can, you know, do their thing), draw on top (notifications), take pictures, use a microphone, use the camera, access files (do you like attachments with your email?) and read phone status and identity (it knows you're on the phone, just like every other app that handles audio).

      I don't know why it needs precise location, but sheesh. At least it's not like Pandora, which is just a bloody streaming music player:

              find accounts on the device
              read your contacts
              add or modify calendar events and send email to guests without owners' knowledge
              test access to protected storage
              modify or delete the contents of your USB storage
              view Wi-Fi connections
              read phone status and identity
              receive data from Internet
              install shortcuts
              run at startup
              full network access
              pair with Bluetooth devices
              connect and disconnect from Wi-Fi
              change network connectivity
              access Bluetooth settings
              view network connections
              prevent device from sleeping

    3. Re:Think that's bad by goldcd · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand.
      Worx doesn't actually *give* you any functionality - e.g. I just use my regular mail program to connect to exchange, attach files etc etc. All Worx does, is tell my employer my handset's allowed to use exchange.
      I'm guessing it can probably be used in a slightly more intrusive way to 'brand' my handset (install corporate wallpaper, stick corporate apps of choice on the handset etc) - but..

    4. Re:Think that's bad by adolf · · Score: 1

      That is what it is being used for in your use-case.

      Looking around in the Worx Gallery (which, I must say, the very concept of which sours my mouth), it looks like it can also do just about everything else, too.

      Hence, why it needs all of the permissions in the world (or at least enough of them that arguing otherwise is a moot point).

      If you don't like it (and I certainly don't, don't get me wrong), there's Xposed modules that can fix it. (And Xposed modules that defy root-detection. And, and, and. See also: Cat and mouse, Tom and Jerry, and DRM wars going back decades before DRM was even a TLA.)

      Or, do it the old-fashioned way: One device for work, one device for other. Power off one or the other when not needed.

  47. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Wootery · · Score: 1

    If only there were a technology which enabled permissions to somehow be enforced by the operating-system itself...

  48. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Then don't install the app.

    I didn't. But, then, Uber leaching all the contact information of someone I know still is fucking me over. Oops.

    Problem solved.

    Congratulations on your myopic vision of problems. I presume your solution to the problem of contract killers is to just not hire one.

    Sheesh. I swear people are like 2 year old kids: "but i WAAAAAAANTT it! I want it NOOOOWWW!"

    Nice ad hominem/strawman there. There's nothing about wanting something that wasn't offered or instant gratification. What is being discussed is potentially abusive permissions as a norm that most apps don't abuse but enough do.

    Whether this ends up just being that people stop using the Uber app and similar apps that are caught being abusive or it starts moving towards a technology method to aid people who want to opt out of this abuse or to an opt in approach that really should be the norm (my opinion, of course), the whole point only appears precisely because of "people ... like 2 year old kids" who call out Uber on the point. If it were merely that people who noticed stopped using the app without telling others, I doubt you or most people would even think to not install Uber based on its insane permission requests.

    But, then, "Problem solved"! So, why are you here, again, bitching about other people?

  49. Android is *NOT* Linux ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Because some idiot decided to strip the security out of Linux to make Android. No Android app is safe, auto updates of a safe app can make it unsafe with no notice to the user. They took the safest OS there is and made a Frankenstein POS out of it to make it user friendly.

    Android is *NOT* Linux based, it is merely Linux hosted. Android is its own OS, its own environment. As such Android is perfectly free to have less or *more* security than Linux. There was no stripping security out, there was only how much security to build into this new and independent environment.

    There is a way for apps to jump through some hoops and access Linux (NDK) but only about 25% of apps (last I read) do this. For the vast majority of Android Apps and Android Developers they are just like Android users. They don't see or use Linux at all. If Android were to be updated to host on BSD these users and developers would not know or care. Of the remain 25%, many of their apps would still compile and run. Many use standard *nix calls, nothing Linux specific like most FOSS software.

  50. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Linux security doesn't isolate process disk data from each other, anybody can read any part of the disk under the same user, which in practice is all apps a user use because they all run under the user's account.

    Apparently you are not familiar with SELinux.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  51. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Garfong · · Score: 1

    The problem with being able to allow/deny individual permissions is the app developers now have 2^n configurations to test, instead of just one. Which is either going to lead to a much higher testing cost, or apps which are buggier when run with less than full requested permissions.

  52. Re:It's a storage site by SternisheFan · · Score: 2

    I just deleted my uber app and will use left going forward

    Uber will keep your information in their system ntil you specifically request for your info to be deleted. The only way to do this (that I found) is by digging into their website for the correct email address.

  53. MODS ARE DICKS by gavron · · Score: 1

    Just check - every thread about "nextweb" and its analysis that this blog is incorrect is modded 0 points.

    This thread is modded 0 points.

    Your note is modded 0 points.

    Apparently "sharing the real facts" and "debunking the hysteria" is modded down.
    Discussions about how Google/Android are bad, permissions aren't granular, uber is bad, uber has a German name so they must be worse still, etc... those are modded 4-5.

    Happy thanksgiving.
    Mods - go meta-mod your "peers". They are out of control.

    E

    E

  54. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by discovercomics · · Score: 1

    Sorry but they don't have a Taxi service. Taxi's are licenced and regulated by municipal authorities which means among other things that rates are regulated and such niceties as insurance is sorted out. Your literally rolling the dice with Uber.

  55. Re: It's a storage site by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the world where capital rules. Don't say communism is better, its the world where crazy old alcoholics rule.

    One thing about old-style Soviet communism - old alcoholics become dead alcoholics a lot quicker. Or they're "retired".

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  56. Re:It's a storage site by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    You know what, eff uber. They can keep my data. They're not getting any more of my money.

  57. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by rtb61 · · Score: 2

    Easy, start screaming at Google to pull it's bloody finger out and make a much needed modification to permission to differentiate between unlimited permissions and user confirmed permissions every time a request is made, plus the opportunity to change this on the fly. Add in logs for access, that the user can readily confirm in order to change permissions if they don't like them. Send them emails, blog nasty things about them and stop installing apps until changes are made.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  58. How about SuperSu? by TropicalCoder · · Score: 1

    This app just popped up on my wife's phone, wanting to update itself. I had no idea what it is, so Googled it... "SuperSU is a Superuser management tool for rooted devices". "SuperSU Brings Better SuperUser Root Permission Management to Android" I still don't have a clue as what I would actually do with such an app. Everything I read about it just leaves me more confused. I have two questions - what is it doing on my wife's phone, that I recently did a factory reset on, and 2.) Would this app somehow allow one to control permissions of apps after installation? http://www.addictivetips.com/m... https://plus.google.com/+Chain...

    1. Re:How about SuperSu? by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Your wife's phone is rooted, that's what SuperSU is about.

    2. Re:How about SuperSu? by TropicalCoder · · Score: 1

      Thanks - that explanation really helps.

  59. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    Poor app developers might actually have to spend time testing their apps.

    My heart bleeds for them.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  60. OnePlus One equals no fake info by tepples · · Score: 1

    I wonder if not providing fake info was a concession to bring CyanogenMod in line with the Android CDD so that it can ship alongside Google Play Store on the OnePlus One phone.

    1. Re:OnePlus One equals no fake info by stoploss · · Score: 1

      It may have been some sort of attempt like that.

      Any coder can tell the difference in effect on an app if a security-related method call throws a security exception (or returns null), which is how CM7 did it, vs return a spoofed but cromulent return value (e.g. an empty list or a random 10 digits for a phone number, etc).

      The CM7 privacy controls were basically unusable because most apps weren't coded to expect those privileged method calls to crap out.

      However, PDroid was far better than the CM7 approach, and XPrivacy is the best yet. I love that I can sideload it on an otherwise stock vanilla Android distro. No wiping, no nandroids, just a simple reboot.

      Obviously I am enamored. I use that and a whitelist firewall and therefore have my device locked up tight.

  61. Permission groups by tepples · · Score: 1

    If an app needs new permissions in an update it must be explicily accepted by the user.

    Recent changes to Google Play Store's permission display mean that a new permission will be automatically accepted so long as the new permission is in the same group as a permission that an app already has. Predictably, Slashdot users female dogged and moaned about it.

    1. Re:Permission groups by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      Crap, I missed that...

  62. So Mr. Stallman was right by tepples · · Score: 1

    Android is *NOT* Linux based, it is merely Linux hosted. Android is its own OS, its own environment.

    And now you know why Richard Stallman was right about calling the familiar desktop and server operating system "GNU/Linux". Android has a completely different userland on top of the same Linux kernel that underlies GNU/Linux.

    1. Re:So Mr. Stallman was right by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Android is *NOT* Linux based, it is merely Linux hosted. Android is its own OS, its own environment.

      And now you know why Richard Stallman was right about calling the familiar desktop and server operating system "GNU/Linux". Android has a completely different userland on top of the same Linux kernel that underlies GNU/Linux.

      No. Android is not some sort of userland, not some sort of GUI layer. It is its own thing. Android is a basically a Java based OS where the hardware and the host operating system are both abstracted away.

  63. Split an app into multiple parts by tepples · · Score: 1

    It'd be nice if apps had a base set of privs then expanded sets that could be allowed on install or later by request to the system/user.

    That's already possible in current Android. Offer one app in Google Play Store that needs a small set of permissions, then offer other apps in Google Play Store that act as content providers for the main app. For example, there might be a "Swype" keyboard app that needs only the input method permission, a "Swype auf Deutsch" app that adds a German dictionary, a "Swype Local" app that adds nearby businesses to the dictionary (which requires the location permission), and a "Swype Knows Your Name" app that adds your contacts to the dictionary (which requires the read contacts permission). If they're all digitally signed by the same publisher (such as Nuance), they can share data structures intimately as if they were one app.

    Also it'd be nice if the privileges were a lot more restricted, like "Use Ad Service to show you ads" instead of "Use Internet"

    The example you give is not possible unless you want all ad-supported apps in Google Play Store to move to a single monopoly ad provider. If you whitelist communication with one hostname, that host could act as a proxy to access any other host.

    1. Re: Split an app into multiple parts by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 1

      could be a whitelisted set of approved ad providers, and restricted requests

      --
      -- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"' /. ate my old sig. Bastards.
  64. Spell checking your contacts by tepples · · Score: 1

    iOS 8 also introduces replacement keyboards. If the OS forbids apps from enumerating contacts, how does the user go about adding contacts' names to the keyboard's spell check dictionary?

    1. Re: Spell checking your contacts by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Two separate things....

      1. An app does not need to ask for permission to access your contacts to allow you to choose a specific contact that you want the app to have.

      2. An app can still ask for permission to all of your contacts if needed. But you still have both the option to say no after the app is installed and you can turn the permission off.

      When you install a keyboard, it is stuck in a sandbox and by default has no network access. The user has to go into settings and manually give it full access. So for a keyboard app to send your contact information the user has to explicitly allow two separate permissions - one of which gives you a very scary warning.

      You can of course turn either permission off anytime you want to.

  65. Re:It's a storage site by ShaunC · · Score: 1

    Please don't use left going forward, it's really confusing for the drivers behind you.

    --
    Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  66. Simple solution by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    For the old farts who knew the world prior to it being online 24/7, the solution is an easy one.

    Get rid of the damn phone.

    Get a basic phone you can pull the battery out of if you must have one to travel with, but drop the surveillance device. . . erm . . smartphone.

    Until the folks who create them can get the permissions models right and truly give the end user the ability to lock them down, don't use them.

    I have an old Iphone 4. It's served its purpose pretty well but every time we turn around now you hear nothing but how App X is doing something it shouldn't be. How App y is accessing and transmitting everything it can learn about you.

    Want to see something fun ? Fire up a sniffer setup to watch all the wireless traffic on your network, then boot your phone and not just how many sites your phone talks with. Then note how the majority of that traffic is encrypted so you'll have quite the hard time figuring out just what is being sent out.

    I've been kicking around the idea of upgrading my phone but recently, I've been tossing around the idea of just getting rid of the smartphone thing com

  67. plain and simple... by guygo · · Score: 1

    thieves. Gordon Gecko style thieves.

  68. Why? by blackfeltfedora · · Score: 1

    I do not use Uber, but based on everything I have heard on this company's business practices, treatment of it's drivers, threats made to journalist, and now learning that the app is scraping every bit of data possible from people's phones I have to ask "Why are you using this app? Is it really that much better than calling a cab?"

  69. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

    Yes yes very sarcastic of you... You're comparing a specialised Linux niche with what is available on all Android devices that exist. I'm looking at default Android against default Linux.

  70. Not what the app wants -- what Google makes it ask by Old+Man+Kensey · · Score: 1

    The trouble is Android's permission model is crap. If an app has a feature that requires a permission the app may need at any point in the future, it has to be approved by the user at install time, and the app cannot control how the permissions are described or even explain to the user why it needs that permission. And lots of innocuous permissions are bundled up together non-granularly with scary dangerous (or dangerous-sounding) ones, so the app only needs EraseBunnyDrawing permissions but to get that it has to request KillFamily permissions, which doesn't actually mean kill *your* family, it means kill a process family, but all the user sees is "Permission to kill family members without warning" and OH GOD WHY DOES AN APP ABOUT DRAWING FLUFFY BUNNIES REQUIRE MY FAMILY TO DIE?! THIS APP SUCKS!!!!!!1111!!!!!oneoneonetyone1!!!

    And then the story hits TechCrunch, where it's summarized so that it sounds like there have been actual deaths of family members, and then the mainstream press and the Today show start calling the app developer asking "Why are you a horrible person whose app killed little Stacey's favorite uncle?? :( :( :("

    And all because Google can't get security UI right.

    --
    -- Old Man Kensey
  71. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by allo · · Score: 1

    So, they did strip the security?
    Just a little reminder: a program on your linux system can read everything the user can read. Android apps need to ask for permissions (of course, they ask for a lot, but they still need to ask).

    The problem is on the other hand, that most apps are spyware, as we called it when people still used PCs. And nobody cares anymore. On the PC we did not install programs, which did more than they should. on the mobile phone it's just normal.

  72. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

    The problem with being able to allow/deny individual permissions is the app developers now have 2^n configurations to test, instead of just one.

    Most of these permissions are for facilities that may not be available, let alone permitted, under real-world conditions. GPS might not be available where you are, the contacts database might not be available, network access apart from port 80 might be unavailable.

    This isn't the same as screen size of hardware chipsets, this is runtime allocation of OS resources -- you always have to check to make sure that the OS can give you them, and then handle failures gracefully.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  73. Uber naughty on iPhone too? by The+Old+One+666 · · Score: 1

    I arrived in Guadalara, and "Poof!" there was an email from Uber announcing they now have service in Guadalajara. I'm going to uninstall their app now.

  74. Re:Why is Android allowing Uber to access the info by Wootery · · Score: 1

    I was alluding to the fact that Android is based on GNU/Linux, and Linux has permissions built into the core. Fair point though.

    Aside: apparently there's not much GNU code in Android. Interesting.

  75. Indeed. by goldcd · · Score: 1

    It doesn't like knowing my phone is rooted - but then slap on Root Cloak, and it happily rolls over and lets me tickle it's underside.
    I think this might be my main annoyance - ridiculously intrusive, and yet pretty dumb.

  76. Antitrust by tepples · · Score: 1

    Google Play has majority market share on smartphones now. If Google flexes this market power to play kingmaker in the mobile advertising market, I can think of at least one competition regulator that might step in.