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Gilbert, AZ Censors Biology Books the Old-Fashioned Way
nbauman writes The Gilbert, AZ school board has voted to tear out a page from Campbell's Biology (a standard highly-recommended textbook that many doctors and scientists fondly remember), because it discusses contraception without also discussing adoption. Julie Smith, a member of the Gilbert Public Schools governing board, said that she was a Catholic and "we do not contracept." Smith convinced the board that Campbell's violates Arizona law to teach "preference, encouragement and support to childbirth and adoption" over abortion. The Arizona Education Department decided that the pages didn't violate Arizona law, but nevermind. Rachel Maddow generously risked hassles for copyright violation and posted the missing pages as a service to Arizona honors biology students.
It appears the school board didn't care about what was on the other side of the same page? Most textbooks I have seen are printed on both sides, so they just threw out two pages of of the book. I have used Campbell in the past (though not the current edition) and I suspect by the time the book reached the second side of that page they were no longer talking about contraception or abortion.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Jesus Fucking Christ.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
contraception doing in a Biology textbook? Shouldn't that be taught in Health class?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
How Long before religion puts us back into the dark ages? No scientific book should be censored, simply added to as our understanding evolves, they may not agree to teach the subject without the addtion of adoption, but that is not a biological process as contraception is....
“I’m Catholic; we do not contracept,” Ms. Smith said. “It is a grave sin.” By including those pages in the curriculum, she added, “you have violated my religious rights.”
Her agenda is to make everyone Catholic.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
This will all but guarantee that every student in the school system will read the page the school board is removing. Everyone knows that the quickest way to encourage a teen to seek out and read something is to remove it or ban it and tell them its not permitted.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
why we let religious loonies dictate what can and what can't be taught. Separation of church and state my ass!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
What is going to be the demise of the United States of America?
Terrorists? If you look at the new laws and the level of spying done on its citizens since september 11 of 2001, the terrorists won over a decade ago.
Food poisoning? If you look at what the FDA approves such as high fructose corn syrup and GMO foods, the mega-corporations won decades ago too. When people see food labeled "Made in USA" they don't buy it anymore.
Economic recession? The rich are either protected by laws or they simply buy their way out of almost any problem and the middle class is being crushed into bankruptcy by the rich who keep exporting manufacturing and jobs to save a few cents and get even richer. It's already happening.
The public perception of the USA is now associated with NSA, spying, insecurity, etc. Some countries are already seeing anything "Made in USA" as a bad thing and will prefer alternatives.
But even with all that, you let stupid and ignorant religious zealots push you around and even make up laws to appease these fucking morons?
The founding fathers would be ashamed of you.
om the original article:
“I’m Catholic; we do not contracept,” Ms. Smith said. “It is a grave sin.” By including those pages in the curriculum, she added, “you have violated my religious rights.”
“I’m American; we do not censor education,” vomitology said. “It is a grave sin.” By removing those pages in the curriculum, he added, “you have violated children's educational rights.”
FTFY
~Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
The science of contraception is a liberal world view?
Well, that explains a great deal...
albeit not in all most efficient ways so bitch was factually incorrect and was just preaching something she did not understand. That is something that many people do also (OMG) not catholics.....
when it fits a liberal world view.
That may be true, but things ultimately work because people of all world views have a platform to ensure 'the truth' they think is suppressed is heard. slashdot may be only good for the 'liberal' world view, but there's no shortage of 'conservative' oriented sites.
Of course, 'liberal' and 'conservative' aren't consistently applicable terms. People demanding the right to do whatever they want with guns would be 'conservative', people demanding the right to do whatever they want with drugs would be labeled 'liberal', but oh well.
I don't like the censorship, but would it be fair to discuss if the material is more than tangentially relevant in a biology textbook?
I admit, I haven't taken a bio course in about 25 years. I could conceive of this in a sex ed class (not that that would happen in arizona), a reproductive biology class.... a medical class, a human biology class.
But page 545 in particular (I don't have context of the text) look suspiciously like attempts to advocate... human contraception.
So I kind of see two possibilities here:
1) It's a very introductory text, where students don't understand that preventing unity of the sperm and egg will inhibit reproduction. In which case it's probably still irrelevant...
2) It's in some sub section on human reproduction or bio... and.. it's again irrelevant because nobody's going to be performing experimental vasectomies on humans.
I don't object to students learning this -- but I don't think stealing time and pages from a science class for... social/sexual ed issues is the appropriate place.
Seriously, ALL OF YOU, keep your politics out of science. Even if Republicans bring it in, keep the politics out.
People want to teach biology, sure... cover the reproductive system. Cover the reproductive system of mammals.... the special tissues, and processes.
But human contraception efficacy? It's barely relevant.
by her logic sex before mirage is wrong therefor why teach kids at all ? when they are married then the priest has a sit down with you. No but seriously protect yourselves from STI's and unwanted pregnancy wrap the toll yeah fool !
Evil is comparatively rare, ignorance is epidemic. - Jon Stewart
Meanwhile, the Cathloic school I attended was more than happy to explain all forms of contraception, and making mention that there's a risk that it won't always work. The Catholic school also noted a form of contraception based around when the female partner has the period, a form of contraception fully sanctioned by the Catholic church.
Well there isn't much actual discussion of the science behind it - note how it appears before fertilisation has been discussed. On the other hand, it does mention the "rhythm method", which is both Catholic-friendly and a means of birth control. but adoption certainly isn't a means of birth control and wouldn't make sense.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Biological Teaching is a Clear and Present Danger to Christianity:
- It teaches Evolution - contrary to Creation story in the Bible
- It teaches a long biological history (billions of years) - contrary to the Bible Creation story (6,000-10,000 years old)
- It teaches Humans have a common descent with Apes - contrary to Biblical Garden of Eden with Adam & Eve
- It teaches Common Descent, all life is related in a family tree - contrary to Biblical Creation story
Evidence-backed biology with centuries of testable models of life vs a 2,000 year book of untestable claims.
Conclusion: Burn the biology book for challenging the teachings of the Bible!
Let's just go back to the Dark Ages before science started to bring such dangerous concepts to the world...
Contraception is part of biology. Adoption isn't.
Now if the biology textbook refused to talk about the biology of childbirth and the regular hormonal cycles, conception and pregnancy absent of contraception, that would be a glaring omission in a biology textbook. But adoption is a social, not a biological phenomenon.
I've taken a look at the pages removed. They don't really cover any social aspects of contraception, just saying that contraception is the name for deliberate methods of preventing pregnancy. And a number of pages are removed covering regular pregnancy and its processes, and also methods for overcoming infertility. All without any value statements. Strictly the biological part of stuff.
This is not the act of a "school board": this is exclusively a choice of keeping people uneducated for political reasons.
It's a deliberate act of vandalism on education and knowledge.
If Ms. Smith happens to be catholic, no one will make a significant production of it (well, obviously excepting when Ms. Smith makes a production of it herself). Most catholics are reasonable people, but in *any* population there are overly fanatic people, like Ms. Smith.
If a person is gay, there remains a significant chance that person will face persecution even if they don't intrude upon others and are not at all fanatic, so they have a right to be a bit defensive. There are fanatics that are over the top in ways that heterosexuals wouldn't get away with, but cry 'homophobe' if you are uncomfortable with them being that over the top (whether it's excessive affection in public or what amounts to sexual harassment if a straight person did it), but most are reasonable and conduct their romantic/sexual life like most heterosexual people.
Accepting gays is equivalent to accepting that Catholics do not use contraception. Trying to discourage or prevent others from using or even learning about contraception is the equivalent of trying to force people to be gay.
The more religious, the more abusive and criminal they become. They need to remove this person from her position on the school board.
But if it was about questioning global warming info being removed there would be crickets.
Well yeah, because the only place such discussion would likely be would be in a science book, and what's in a science book should be supported by evidence. The kind of "questioning global warming" that people like you mean is not supported by evidence, it's distorting evidence, and does not belong in a science book.
As Colbert put best, "reality has a well-known liberal bias". It comes from being willing to actually ask questions and observe the world to find our answers, rather than an unwavering loyalty to an ideology. In this case these fucknuts are taking their religious beliefs, based on nothing, and prioritizing them over actual science. That's not political in any way, that's just fucking idiots. Unfortunately for those who are politically conservative but aren't insane the "conservative" party has spent 20 years courting the religious morons in every possible way and happily set themselves up for this kind of shit.
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
Please cite an example of "removing" any science that disputes AGW. In fact, they tend to be pointed out, along with their serious flaws:
https://agwobserver.wordpress....
The shorter version: fuck Republican stupidity.
Why is Snark Required?
I looked at the other side of the age and it's about Embryonic Development.
This is just yet another issue that shows how religion is backwards and incompatible with modern society. This is the 21st century, people need to stop worshiping Iron Age gods and following its myths that have no place in modern society. This isn't about being Liberal or Conservative; this is about casting aside ignorance and outdated beliefs.
Until that happens, humanity will be hard pressed to advance; because we haven't changed much in 3,000 years. We are still the cruel shallow ignorant bald apes that we were when the New Testament character Jesus preached.
In the war between our tribe and our enemy there can be no neutral ground. Any claim that isn't part of our tribe's identity and thus a pure, sweet truth, must be part of our enemy's and thus a vile, contemptuous lie. There can be no compromise with such Pure Evil. There can be no giving up any part of our cause, no show of weakness by ever admitting we were wrong. No matter what the cost to actual human beings, we will get our way.
But hey, at least people can change their ideological tribe, so it's a step up from ethnic ones!
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Global Warming backed by data.
Opposition to contraception backed by religious beliefs - i.e. NO data but backed by superstitious belief in God.
Religious beliefs do not deserve respect.
“I’m Catholic; we do not contracept,” Ms. Smith said. “It is a grave sin.” By including those pages in the curriculum, she added, “you have violated my religious rights.”
Assuming that contraception is a sin, is reading about how it works a sin?
Killing is a sin. Reading about killing is a sin?
What is a sin and what is not is not up to Ms. Smith to decide for others, just for herself. The page didn't put her on contraception, so her rights don't appear to have been violated.
Religion is a hobby; something you do in your spare time. Your hobby shouldn't interfere with other people's lives.
Bert
Well it's "News for Nerds, stuff that matters".
Let me elaborate.
The US is still, regardless of an individuals feelings towards it as a nation, the most influential nation with respect to sciences, technology and geo politics.
People like me from Europe, but also plenty of your fellow countrypeople from other states, are somewhat uneasy towards large areas of the US that are dominated by, to us, strange religious tendencies. At times it can feel like parts of the US aren't all that different to the Taliban in their general attitude, albeit the details differ vastly of course.
Now when things like this redaction of text books occurs, it lights up like a warning light that the, oh let's call them Christiban just for the fun of it, might be making inroads again.
And the US's position towards science, technology and teaching of science is of utmost importance for the rest of the world due to the US's massive influence in these fields. Noone can ignore it.
In closing I'd also like to notice that anyone scared by the actual Taliban, that group of not so terribly well funded Reactionaries in a overall not so terribly important part of the world, should realize that they are a trivial non-issue that a fully Talibanized ("Christibanized") US would pose.
Fantastically funded, large armed forces, nuclear weapons, a megapower... if that became in it's total a state dominated by relgious fundamentalists like that chick from that school board... that's a thought to shiver in fear of.
Right there in the law. Many cases to say that students cannot be charged for any extracurricular activities run by the school (athletics and band, most particularly), unless you get a consumable to take home (e.g. you can be charged for clay in an art class or wood in a shop class, because you get to take the product home). No security deposits, no "cleaning fees", no nothin'. All there in Art IX, Section 5 of the California Constitution: public school is free.
A couple years ago the ACLU sued the state and many school districts for charging fees, and came to a settlement agreement.
https://www.aclusocal.org/cases/doe-v-california/school-fees/
Doesn't stop schools from trying to charge, but the simple fact is that they are illegal. You also cannot set up some sort of "means tested" scholarship program.
Leading case here is Hartzell vs Connell, which was about cheerleading in Santa Barbara. Tons of info about this online
Mind you, as a parent, if you have the income to support the fees, there is a rationale to not stand on your principles: it's your kid that will suffer for your principles, and suffer they will. Wait til they graduate, then file the forms for a refund, or litigate if needed.
OK, so show me one schoolboard that ripped pages out of a book because it didn't conform to a liberal agenda, whatever that is.
in preference to childbirth or adoption. A significant percentage of students will get pregnant, even if taught properly about contraception, because that's what teenagers do. Giving birth means that both teenagers and their children will miss out on a big part of what life has to offer. Early abortion is medically safer than childbirth and not ethically questionable. Any good biology textbook would make it obvious that a fetus in early stages of development is further from a thinking, self aware human being than a chicken or a dog.
Conservatives have no trouble taking a stand. They win because progressives and everyone in the middle is too nice or cowardly to do the same thing. Textbook authors should refuse to compromise on science and publishers should decline to publish drivel or allow adulterated works.
And this (extremely insightful) explanation is why so many United Statsians are so terrified of our own country. We are seemingly just a few votes away from a tyranny of the vocal religious minority. Give a fundamentalist a few thousand nuclear missiles and the most expensive army the world has ever known, and brown people around the world start to get nervous. But we have to do it, because terrorists, or freedom, or something!
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
After the big bang and evolution big bombs the Pope just laid out this past summer/fall (he believes in them), I wonder what his take on this would be. Seeing as how this stupid woman used 'being a catholic' as an excuse to do it. There are some hints already that he thinks contraception is not necessarily a bad thing. Granted he didn't get all he wanted at this years synod, but he is a relatively young Pope and if he can avoid being poisoned, or some other "sickness" from schemers (I don't doubt they would resort to this in their still medieval world and power structure), I bet there is a good chance it will be revisited. He is also against using religious beliefs and the catholic church as a means to achieve political power; which from what I understand has pissed off a lot of Bishops and Cardinals who likely have profited from using this as a tool for their "success".
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
It's time to start culling the stupid and religous from society before they ruin things even more.
Man, I know a few people here that need to hear that from somebody besides me. Tribalism is kind of a biological function. It illustrates how the same species can differentiate, almost 'fork', resulting in different phenotypes. If these wackos really don't want their message 'tainted', they definitely need to eliminate all the physical sciences.
And the parents? What's up?? Apparently they approve. It's not like the problem isn't chronic or anything. I guess in the middle of soccer matches and the beauty salon there just isn't enough time in the day to deal with the sprouts' education...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The parent did not use capitalization correctly. Yes, you consider yourself conservative, but allowing people to do drugs is not a Conservative (TM) position, it is a Liberal (TM) position. In fact, it is the intersection of liberal and conservative called libertarian. But, hey, those are just labels used to demonize and divide.
By the way, your argument falls apart in many ways, but mostly when kids are involved. Let's say mommy and daddy sit at home shooting up heroine (you shoot heroine, not LSD) and don't take care of their kids. Consequences, right? We put mommy and daddy in jail for child neglect and abuse. Great, now what do we do with the kids? Is it right to give them to some religious charity that will just indoctrinate them? Maybe there isn't a secular charity around to help. So, do we just tell the kids: "Oh well, mommy and daddy had to face consequences. You're on your own. Good luck." Or do we do something for them? If we do something for them with public money, that gives us control over what people put in their bodies, no? And, we have to do something for them because decades of history now show that you just perpetuate the problem by punishing the kids through punishing the parents.
Or, do we treat it like a public health issue, and get mommy and daddy treatment instead of taking them away from their kids? In which case, who pays for the treatment? We could put them in NarcAnon, but that doesn't really work and its a cult anyway. Again there might be some religious charities that will indoctrinate them. There might be some public charities. But that's really the problem with charities, they're unreliable, some are cults, and some indoctrinate into religions. So, we pay for it. Which, again, gives us some control over what goes in people's bodies, no? And, we end up doing that through taxation and regulation on what is available instead of an outright ban which hasn't worked at all.
We could be like Portugal and completely legalize everything. But, Portugal poured all of their former drug law enforcement dollars into public health treatment. There's no way in hell we would ever pour anywhere near 10% of what we currently put into drug law enforcement into public health treatment because we are a very punitive society (as evidence by your execution remark). So, we have to make a choice. And that choice is to not be a libertarian "paradise" that lets people put whatever in their bodies whenever for whatever reason.
Whoops, "heroin" not "heroine". Stupid homophones.
I have no problem with conservative politics but can't stand their unwillingness to accept facts that don't agree with the broken parts of their philosophy.
What is wrong in the AZ debate is that they (the religious extremists) are mixing biology (science) and their personal beliefs.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Well it's "News for Nerds, stuff that matters".
Let me elaborate. The US is still, regardless of an individuals feelings towards it as a nation, the most influential nation with respect to sciences, technology and geo politics. People like me from Europe, but also plenty of your fellow country people from other states, are somewhat uneasy towards large areas of the US that are dominated by, to us, strange religious tendencies. At times it can feel like parts of the US aren't all that different to the Taliban in their general attitude, albeit the details differ vastly of course.
Now when things like this redaction of text books occurs, it lights up like a warning light that the, oh let's call them Christian just for the fun of it, might be making inroads again.
And the US's position towards science, technology and teaching of science is of utmost importance for the rest of the world due to the US's massive influence in these fields. No-one can ignore it.
In closing I'd also like to notice that anyone scared by the actual Taliban, that group of not so terribly well funded Reactionaries in a overall not so terribly important part of the world, should realize that they are a trivial non-issue that a fully Talibanized ("Christibanized") US would pose. Fantastically funded, large armed forces, nuclear weapons, a mega-power... if that became in it's total a state dominated by religious fundamentalists like that chick from that school board... that's a thought to shiver in fear of.
No less truth 'cause you chose to post this as an AC.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Yes, I did just say that. Got a problem with it? Tough shit. We're living in a world where there are assholes out there right now who are cutting off people's heads, ostensibly because of their 'religious war', throwing acid in the faces of little schoolgirls, because they have the gall to actually want to learn to read, write, do math, and learn history, and exterminate entire populations, just because they don't believe in some 'god' the same exact way that they do, and in general be violent pieces of shit, all in the name of some so-called 'god'. Now, here in the United States, a country that is supposedly a top-tier first-world nation, a country that peoples from all over the Earth go out of their way to come to to get an education, we're intentionally vandalizing textbooks because something in it 'offends someones religion'. Note also that we're living in a Nation where a certain state government wanted to 'officially' make Pi equal to 3 instead of 3.1415.. because the actual value was too complicated for them. I'm sorry, but it's official: The human race is getting stupider, not smarter; we apparently are descending back into superstition, ignorance, and barbarism, and I am at a loss to explain why this is happening or what to do about it. I guess I can just hope that it doesn't all go so completely to hell during what's left of my lifetime that all of our civilization collapses under it's own deadweight.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
I can attest that the "rhythm method" is also quite effective.
My wife and I have only tried to get pregnant for two cycles. We have two kids.
I actually sorta wish we'd had more difficulty, as reproductive sex is more fun.
Believe me, Americans are baffled by the religious extreme in our country too. I dont think i will ever go to Utah, for any reason because of extreme theocratic control. Sure its still America, but your neighbors will be pricks if you arent one of them (mormon)
Good-bye
Only if by "liberal" do you mean in the traditional sense of liberty and the Enlightenment period's understanding of the scientific method. It does not hold true for the American layman's use of the term for an ideology. For such pesudoscientific nonsense as eugenics, anti-vaccination, anti-GMO, "alternative" medicine, state censorship of violence in media, and complete ignorance of economics, you can't get much worse than American progressivism.
Wonder what the public key field is for?
If Catholics want a clear conscience, should they not believe that purposely avoiding sex during a time of fertility is practicing contraception? However, if Catholics believe the pope infallible, the pope saying that purposely avoiding sex during a time of fertility is not practicing contraception makes it true for them. The rest of us may think otherwise. I find it nice that we can believe as we feel we should believe.
Whee, another chance to beat our chests and gloat about how superior we feel to those rubes.
.. if that became in it's total a state dominated by relgious fundamentalists like that chick from that school board... that's a thought to shiver in fear of.
? That chick that wants to preserve life of an unborn child? That's what you fear? Sheesh talk about backwards.
Reproductive sex is awful after you've been trying for a year or two.
You know how they're all into including other sides of the argument? Well, how about requiring them to teach the controversy of abortion vs. adoption, abortion vs. death of mother and/or baby, and adoption vs. abortion for rape-incest? That should get some healthy debate going among the pupils and provide loads of learning experiences for how to form coherent arguments, the difference between fact and opinion, the importance of evidence-based reason, and the importance of allowing people to hold their own opinions without fear of reprisals, how to examine issues and do background research, compensate for our logical fallacies and cognitive biases, hear all sides, and make up their own minds. You know, the kinds of individuals who are mature and well-informed and capable of dealing with all the challenges and problems that life's likely to throw at them. Or is that not what the AZ school board people want?
tl;dr - The school board don't want pupils thinking for themselves.
Catholics range from fundamentalist jerks like this woman to those like the Jesuits who are quite sophisticated philosophers and fully aware of the difficulties which arise aligning faith with reality. Unlike Protestants who are prone to start a new denomination when they have a disagreement, all Catholics tend to continue considering themselves Catholic but they build up cliques which can barely tolerate each other under the common umbrella of the main organization. I attended a Catholic high school even though my parents were Southern Baptist; this is not unusual in New Orleans where the Catholic schools have an excellent reputation for their secular education. They had a standard procedure for non-Catholics to opt-out of rituals like the Mass when those arose, although we did have to learn the major points of Catholic doctrine (which has turned out to be useful) and we also got a whole year of comparative religion hitting the main points of other world religions. I have to give it to the CSC that they weren't afraid to hold their own beliefs up for comparison with their competitors.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Whoops, "heroin" not "heroine". Stupid homophones.
Aw belgium. You caught it too soon.
And here I was all set to come up with something about how it is the villainess that you need to shoot, not the heroine. :D
This space unintentionally left blank.
> Stupid homophones.
Right here in plain sight, we see the ugliness of your homophonophobia. NoH8!
The Tea Party faction in control of the Gilbert AZ school board lost its bid for re-election.
There has been some huffing and puffing on both sides about what it might do before the new board takes control in January.
The AP Biology text is more symbol than substance.
The state of Arizona doesn't require sex education, which means that a general biology textbook is as close as a Tea Party controlled board will let students get to a serious discussion of sexual reproduction in humans, standards of sexual behavior, homosexuality, sexually transmitted diseases, contraception, abortion and so on.
Arizona law requires that districts that do offer sex ed must teach a preference for childbirth and adoption over abortion and inform students about date-rape drugs, dating violence, AIDS and other dangers.
State law requires textbooks that mention abortion to state that childbirth and adoption are preferable alternatives.
Sex ed controversies in Gilbert, Tempe an anomaly
[In Tempe, debate over a proposed two-week course in sex education] derailed when board Vice President Moses Sanchez challenged a section of the curriculum that explains birth-control devices. Sanchez asked whether an intrauterine device, or IUD, should be called an abortion method instead of a birth-control device because it works by preventing implantation of fertilized eggs.
Arizona law and board policy say a sex-ed curriculum must:
Emphasize the power of the individual to control one's own behavior.
Instruct students on how to say no to unwanted advances and peer pressure.
Teach students about the prevention of dating abuse.Stress that sexually-transmitted diseases have severe consequences.
Discuss the consequences of pregnancy.
Promote respect.
Stress abstinence until the students are mature adults.
Promote childbirth and adoption over abortion.
Instructional materials may not:
Promote a homosexual lifestyle.
Portray homosexuality as a positive alternative lifestyle.Include tests with questions about students' or their parents' beliefs regarding sex, family life, morals, values or religion.
Tempe Union High district still debating sex-ed program
Just make Julie Smith accountable and take responsibility for all teenage pregnancies that occur.
just a few votes away from a tyranny of the vocal religious minority
Don't worry, the Latino Catholics will be a majority within the next decade. They work hard, raise they're kids right... do not deserve the ire of the racist American because they're far better than them, far more decent. YMWNV, they fear God, and they will not force you to become a Catholic when they get in power, which as I said, will be soon. Within the next 10 years they will be a majority, within the next 20 they will be in power and the nannystaters can then eat shit.
Shows what YOU know
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Perhaps we need an "old dudes who frequent slashdot" club or icon or something.
My suggestion for the sigil is a field of grass, deux shotguns croisés, beneath a hoveround-rampant.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
lol.. They have a constitutional right to those personal beliefs and the state is expressly forbidden from denying it or encouraging it or prohibiting it. So when the state compels a person's child to attend school, they either have to present contrary information in a neutral way or not at all when it comes to religion. Just because the page is removed from the books does not mean the material will not be taught. It just means it will not be taught in the way the book presents it.
But think about that. Suppose it was a speech issue, suppose you were for gay rights and the schools removed any mention of gay rights or gay struggles from the learning environment and brainwashed the children into thinking they have less rights and are not the same as "normal people". How about if they gave them bad grades or other punishment because they held a contrary belief and thought all man was created equal and should all enjoy the same privileges and abilities and have the same opportunities that everyone else can.
Does the state have the right to do that with your child when you are dead set on equal rights? what if the year was 1835 and it was colored people instead of gays? Well, even if you think they do, they are specifically barred from doing it with religion.
Troll? Au contraire. There is zero contemporaneous evidence for the existence of Jesus. Everything, and I mean everything, is some kind of report from people who never met Jesus, either by timing of birth against the story (Tacitus, Suetonius, Josephus, etc.) or as a consequence of first being introduced within the context of a story in a cobbled-together book, no part of which can we trace back any further than about 200 years after the story it tells about him ends.
On top of that, the cult that claims he existed has destroyed any customary grant of credibility they might have gained by reporting other historical events accurately, by inserting reports of walking on water, turning water into (copious amounts of) wine, magical healing (we *still* can't heal leprosy), raising the dead, and so on.
I am definitely outside the bounds of politically correct speech. Especially in the overwhelmingly superstitious USA. But I am in no way trolling. I'm just reporting the facts. If the facts upset you, perhaps you should do some additional thinking.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Other such dangers: physics, math, chemistry, geography, history, logic, and critical thinking.
Most of your rant aside. Texas is the 800 lb gorilla when it comes to school textbooks. Texas basically dictates the content of most school books, since Texas buys more school books than any other state, and thus imposes its will on the textbook publishers.
And last I checked, with the exception of Austin, most of Texas is definitely not "liberal". You have to wonder when "conservatives" find textbooks whose content is driven by one of the most conservative states too "liberal".
Unfortunately most modern "conservatism" boils down to "I don't like it, it must be liberal, and we all know that liberal is a bad thing."
It's not that they're unwilling to accept, it's just that they have accepted and they'd rather no-one else knew the facts. Best way to get someone to do what you want is to fail to present them with any workable alternative. Textbook intellectually dishonesty. Literally.
" but your neighbors will be pricks if you arent one of them (mormon)"
That's true of any state not just Utah and not just mormons.
Or is it the case that only stupid people decide to live in a desert?
I've lived in Gilbert, AZ, and in some ways, it is a mini bible belt in its own little domain. There are Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, and Protestants all locked in a political contest with one another. Gilbert is a really nice part of the east valley with safe neighborhoods and streets and friendly people. Its a shame religion is so embedded in politics. If you want to teach your kids creationism, the bible, and/or religion specific teachings, that's what Sunday school is for. Please don't dictate to me and my family your way of system of beliefs and force it onto me. I make the choice to be atheist but I don't come right out and criticize the faithful, rather it's the faithful that lambast me.
There are many parts of Europe that are very heavily religious as well. There are rednecks, bigots, zealots, and right wingers, as well. Some countries in Europe still automatically enroll all newborns into the state church, stores and even restaurants would shut down on Sundays in some places, etc. The notion that America is a unique anomaly in the industrialized world is somewhat short sighted, though it does tend to make people feel better about their own country's problems.
One reason this is more common in America is that government is highly decentralized, whereas Europe tends to have stronger central control. This story in particular is about one single person from a small town that was elected to a school board. Europe has a much higher percentage of population in cities, and cities tend to be more liberal overall, and thus enough percentage to dominate elections means that those on the center or right are easily ignored (though it's changing in the last decade or two). American on the other hand has a higher rural/semi-rural population and is not dominated by just one party, it changes often and the tug of war goes back and forth. If you look at the solidly liberal versions solidly conservative states in the US, it is only by a few percentage points either way.
It comes from being willing to actually ask questions and observe the world to find our answers, rather than an unwavering loyalty to an ideology.
No, your thought process is to make up a science "versus" religion false dichotomy, and that proceed with the literally lunatic idiocy that "if religion says X, then science must say the opposite of X, and so the opposite of what religion says on any topic is automatically true."
Show me the scientifically-validatable position on whether contraception is morally correct or incorrect, by scientific means, or even secular logic. You can't, because contrary to your claims, you have zero evidence on a scientific basis for your position. The issue isn't even in the domain of science for that to be possible, and to forestall an even deeper idiocy you may be infected with, it is not the case that "not in the domain of science" means "not important" or "I get to assert my position for no scientific reason whatsoever other than I've suggested it's more science-ey-ish-sounding."
Yes, the religious stance here is arguable. You don't even have a position that isn't complete nonsense. But go ahead. Show me the proposed scientific measurements that will empirically determine the ethical status of contraception.
So many parroting idiots, so little time.
I'm not sure anyone understands economics. Even real economists. Who politicians on both sides ignore anyway.
To be fair, American conservatism is often just as bad. It is a fundamental problem with the two-party system in the U.S., that fosters separation into opposing camps in everything, leaving the country with two large political groups that have comparably idiotic but different sets of beliefs and a majority that has a hard time choosing between two evils at every election.
In closing I'd also like to notice that anyone scared by the actual Taliban, that group of not so terribly well funded Reactionaries in a overall not so terribly important part of the world, should realize that they are a trivial non-issue that a fully Talibanized ("Christibanized") US would pose.
Heh. We are already Talibanizing, courtesy of the American mantra of freedom. Everyone can do whatever they like, so long as they don't physically harm someone else. You can say anything, and you can do anything you want to yourself and to others who are like-minded. That is a recipe for fostering extremism in every way, and it is leading America into political extremism, religious extremism, secular extremism, commercial extremism, everything extremism. On top of all this, the media leads every headline with somebody's extremism, inflaming the opposite camp, producing more extremism, etc.
The source of it all is the assumption that we are fine just the way we are, implying that each person's world view is absolutely valid - despite being in direct opposition to other people's world view.
Until we humble ourselves and work with others to find the best way to live together, we'll continue to consist of a petty, fragmented society where the bits and pieces are in constant conflict. To begin the search, we need to accept that a best way for everyone to live together does, in fact, exist - even if we will likely never understand the entirety of that way.
"Science" is a liberal world view. It's inherently progressive. After all, science does not agree with the Bible, nor does it agree with those who do not wish to believe that global warming is happening, and allows people to circumvent old taboos with technology. You can see how it'd be a little scary.
-- sudon't
Air-ride Equipped
It comes from being willing to actually ask questions and observe the world to find our answers, rather than an unwavering loyalty to an ideology. In this case these fucknuts are taking their religious beliefs, based on nothing, and prioritizing them over actual science.
That phrase "based on nothing" is where you lose religious people, and expose your own belief system that isn't based in fact but supposition.
Don't get me wrong - I'm from Gilbert, AZ, and that lady had no business forcing her religious beliefs down everyone's throats and tearing out sound science because she was afraid of her beliefs not being equally represented. That kind of fear-based action is dangerous. It also gives religious, educated people a bad name.
Don't assume all of us religious people are "fucknuts", however. That's a broad stereotype that's just not fair to those of us with an open mind, have real faith in God, and want science to push forward unimpeded by any ideology - athiesm or fundamentalist.
People out there have had "spiritual" experiences that as are real as seeing the sun rise in the morning but can't explain easily or won't explain for fear of mockery at the hands of those who believe it is based on nothing. This lack of communication is often what leads to intellectual standoffs over crap like this textbook fiasco.
Actually you answered your own question without realizing it. Morality is not in the sphere of science so by implication must not influence what is put in textbooks. Science is by nature progressive since there is no forbidden knowledge. He is right because the issue of the morality of birth control has absolutely no relevance to the question of whether a biology textbook ought to discuss birth control. Conservative thinking wants to restrict what people know. To control their behavior by controlling information. This is fundamentally at odds with the foundational principals of science which makes science progressive or at least anti-conservative. Scientist hold morality as applying to how you use knowledge never to the knowledge itself. The same physics that gave us nuclear power (arguably a moral good) gave us the deadliest weapons ever created (undeniably a moral evil). The application of knowledge has moral questions but science is liberal because it never allows anything (including morality) to dictate the knowledge itself. Whatever the scientific method produces is published without limit or exception. Indeed caring about what people may do with it is a fallacy - the appeal to consequences.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Ay Caramba! In case they missed the memo. The benevolent, loving, all knowing, omnipotent creator and ruler of the universe is apparently fine with the fact that 1 in 4 pregnancies naturally result in a miscarriage or what is also known in medical parlance as a spontaneous abortion. Which , BTW, if we we're going to be grading the creator on her performance, would be 75% or a barely passing C. Not a very impressive performance for a supposed omnipotent being if you ask me! Maybe these Catholics should find a more competent god to worship or just give up on science and modern medicine altogether and go back to the dark ages where they were much happier in their ignorance of reality.
Oh, and for the record I was raised a Catholic and most Catholic women that I knew did indeed contracept, just sayin.
Hold on... you sound like you are all together too biased to be making any sort of statement on facts. Truth is... there are pricks and there are non-pricks... religion has nothing to do with it.
Before the website gets a DMCA.
Believe me, Americans are baffled by the religious extreme in our country too. I dont think i will ever go to Utah, for any reason because of extreme theocratic control. Sure its still America, but your neighbors will be pricks if you arent one of them (mormon)
I hate to defend institutions I don't like, but.. give Utah a chance. It's really beautiful, like, some of the most beautiful geology in the whole country. I spent last weekend there, as I have many previous weekends. Mormons are individually pretty nice people, despite the history of the church and many of its current political activities, and if you don't live there you don't get the shunned and isolated feeling that non-mormon residents get. Even rural towns now have coffee shops and places that serve beer.
For hostility and small-town religious closemindedness, northern Wyoming, northern Idaho, and North Dakota all feel far worse than Utah, to me.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
No, there's nothing wrong with Utah in a _physical_ sense. To corrupt the Gandhi saying, Utah's not half bad, it's the Utahans that trouble me greatly.