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In Iowa, a Phone App Could Serve As Driver's License

New submitter dubner writes Simply hand the law enforcement officer your mobile phone. That's what you can do in Iowa rather than "digging through clutter in your glove compartment for an insurance card." And soon your driver's license will be available on your phone too, according to a story in the (Des Moines Register). Iowans will soon be able to use a mobile app on their smartphones as their official driver's license issued by the Iowa Department of Transportation. Some marvelous quotes in TFA: "The new app should be highly secure ... People will use a pin number for verification." And "Branstad (Iowa governor)... noted that even Iowa children are now working on digital development projects." A raft of excuses ("battery's dead") and security problems come to mind; how would you implement such a system?

207 comments

  1. Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, that's one way for the police to get easy access to your phone without a warrant.

    1. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah .. those who care about their privacy need to smash their cells to bits.
      This is just one more reason to ..handing over a phone allows them full access.
      Good job at tightening the chains of the average American slave another notch.
      Try to pass this as a convenience when it's an obvious trap for suckers.

    2. Re:Uh huh by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First of all, I would suggest that handing your phone to an officer would be the stupidest idea ever. However, there is a way to transfer the ID information to the police without handing the phone over, simply employ the NFC available on many (most??) smart phones. The officer would simply BUMP the phone and the record would be retrieved from DMV.

      There is no need to hand your phone over. Period.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:Uh huh by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      and.... we're done here.

      (yes, this is obviously the motive; get people used to handing over their phones to cops, already unlocked.)

      they must think we are all stupid.

      (and I guess, with over half of us, they are probably right) ;(

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    4. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      in the first place, i'm sure the app itself will collect a nice amount of information to phone home with.

    5. Re:Uh huh by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1, Funny

      "Bump" with NFC available on most phones, eh? Android fanboy much?

      Now excuse me while I "squirt" a song to my friend over here.

    6. Re:Uh huh by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you can access the data with a PIN wirelessly, why does the "owner" of the license even need direct access to it? At that point it's the issuing authority's responsibility to be able to access it using the owner's given PIN.
       
      To condense the argument down, "why do you even need a phone app? why can't you just give your last name and PIN to the officer?" All the phone app is doing here is validating that you know the PIN.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    7. Re:Uh huh by DaHat · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or a Windows Phone fan... both of which have had them for years.

      Only now with the iPhone 6 is Apple finally getting on board the NFC party train.

    8. Re:Uh huh by xclr8r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      2 items. A driver's license is state property. How does it affect the ability of LEO to interact with your phone. There are laws in certain states that say if you have your phone on your person and are being searched that the phone contents are fair game to be 'rifled' through. If on the other-hand your phone is packed in a bag or in the glove box the phone is not on your person and can not be searched without a warrant. The act of NFCing your phone means it is on your person and you leave yourself open. No thanks, I like to compartmentalize my information as much as possible.

      --
      Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
    9. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, that sums it up pretty nicely.

    10. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are laws in certain states that say if you have your phone on your person and are being searched that the phone contents are fair game to be 'rifled' through

      That would matter a lot more if the Supreme Court hadn't just ruled that unconstitutional.

    11. Re:Uh huh by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because that sounds like an awesome idea ... have your phone set to provide any other device with your ID upon request. What could possibly go wrong?

      You think the police officer is going to give you time to go in, enable NFC, and then bump?

      No, sorry. Your idea sounds silly, because it means everyone walks around with their phone in a moronic mode which says anybody can access the stuff a police officer can just by proximity.

      Or are you suggesting the cell phones natively have a "law enforcement" mode? Like that won't get hacked or abused.

      I have a better idea ... stick with ID cards, and tell the cop that without a warrant he can stay the hell away from your phone, no, you can't search my car, and I would like to talk to my lawyer before I answer any more questions.

      Assume the police are going to violate your rights, and make them prove otherwise. Don't be rude to them, but don't offer them anything either.

      Make the police understand that if they're going to systematically violate our rights, we're going to assume they're crooked and not trustworthy.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    12. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      The only phones that don't have NFC are Apple phones.

      Windows phones, BlackBerry phones, and Android phones all have it.

      Apple needs to get with the times.

    13. Re:Uh huh by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      The only phones that don't have NFC are Apple phones.

      Windows phones, BlackBerry phones, and Android phones all have it.

      Apple needs to get with the times.

      They already did; current Apple phones have NFC; only previous-gen phones don't.

      Only took them a decade to catch up on that one... at least they not only caught up but also provided an API and infrastructure to facilitate secure storage and transfer of data over NFC. A (backup) driver's license using Apple's SecureID would actually be somewhat decent. Wouldn't want it to be the primary method though.

      But then again, these days all you should really need is your first and last name and date of birth -- from that, most police should be able to pull up your info if you're in-state.

      At least it gets rid of "papers please" requests...

    14. Re:Uh huh by Pec · · Score: 1

      Or have two phones.

      --
      This is a .sig
    15. Re:Uh huh by franblets · · Score: 1

      Precisely. What could go wrong????

    16. Re:Uh huh by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 2

      Ah; but the trick is that your phone can validate the PIN, but the officer can't. That way, the officer can't pretend to be you by knowing your name and PIN, because they don't know the PIN. That's the entire idea behind public key infrastructure -- you can provide trusted credentials to untrusted parties by not revealing the private info to them, but having it vetted by a mutually trusted third party.

      Personally, I think the government should issue key-pairs to people, not identity numbers that don't expire. A single key-pair could be used to validate the person and be used to sign their driver's license token, their insurance token, their employment token (co-signed by the employer), etc. Easy way to ensure identifiers don't get re-used for multiple services, but they can all be validated off of a central authority.

      The other bonus is that you can have your key-pair validated in multiple places, and can expire it (or have them on rolling expiry) but have it chained to a fresh key-pair, making identity theft that much more difficult.

      The only problem with this is that it requires a computational device to be present, and for full validation, needs a network connection back to the key authority(s).

    17. Re:Uh huh by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      I heard something to the effect of Apple not wanting to allow third party apps to use it...ever.

    18. Re: Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's yet another security boondoggle to manage. Apple is smart to control its adoption. Let the pioneers of NFC take the inevitable arrows in the back, learn from their mistakes and release a solution that's at least partially vetted before their customers take it in the shorts.

    19. Re:Uh huh by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      and.... we're done here.

      They're going to NEED that new Gorilla Glass, due to all those phones with the app being touched with 11-foot poles.

    20. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple "security"? Are you fucking serious? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, that's a good one.

    21. Re:Uh huh by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or, what I do, don't do anything important with your phone!

      My phone has always been just "swipe to unlock" - no protection, no encryption, no anything. The only thing on it that anyone might find interesting is my call history, and a few texts from people who didn't realize that I don't text, and the contents of my Kindle/Audible library (which I expect the government can get at anyhow).

      I like having a phone, GPS, and a few games all on the same device, but I've always expected phones to be so insecure that trying to lock one was just silly. Instead I keep important stuff off of any mobile device.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    22. Re:Uh huh by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      A police officer may be allowed to search your phone, but that doesn't do him or her any good if the phone is locked. In a warrantless search, they are allowed to look at things that are in the open, which would quite obviously exclude searching anything where they need your help.

    23. Re:Uh huh by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Because that sounds like someone with short sighted views on technology. I suspect that a DMV ID app would require activation before giving up the information requested by Police's NFC chips.

      Hacking / Abuse is always gonna happen. From the time we first "hacked" a wheel together, and it was used for nefarious purposes (stealing women / children) ...

      AND I always assume the police want me to give up my rights, and violate them even when I am not willing, which is why I will always answer "I don't answer questions" to any police inquiry. Makes for interesting conversations at road stops. "Do you know how fast you were going?" ... "I don't answer questions". In short, NEVER EVER EVER admit anything.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    24. Re:Uh huh by JohnFen · · Score: 2

      That would matter a lot more if the Supreme Court hadn't just ruled that unconstitutional.

      As if the cops care.

    25. Re:Uh huh by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

      Can you "bump" information via NFC from an Android phone to a Windows or a Blackberry phone?

    26. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's probably one thing on their mind, but speaking as an Iowan, you might be giving them too much credit.

      Branstad is one of these sort of "the government sucks--let's remake it into a business, by hiring business consultants in completely unrelated areas to tell us how to run our government" GOP members.

      So, if you're looking for corruption, it's probably more likely to be related to some business friends of Branstad's who want in on the app development contract.

      Even if there isn't anything like that going on, it's still more likely to be related to some sort of misguided idea of how to run a government.

      I'm not anti-GOP in principle, I'm just pissed about the current state of GOP. This is exactly the sort of ridiculous crap that drives me nuts. As someone said--if Branstad was really thinking about this right, they'd just eliminate the app and card altogether, and just have someone hand over a fingerprint and PIN.

      In any event, if this takes off, expect to see more firewalling of apps on your phone--e.g., app-by-app access settings (as it should be anyway).

    27. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod up!
       
      Yeah I know it's already insightful but it needs modding higher!

    28. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, I would suggest that handing your phone to an officer would be the stupidest idea ever.

      Why the fuck does it even need to be my phone. Can't the officer look up my license on his own phone/computer? They do that already, so why not just make that the default method?

    29. Re: Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take it in the shorts?

      Apple customers already have their shorts down around their ankles.

    30. Re:Uh huh by rsborg · · Score: 2

      First of all, I would suggest that handing your phone to an officer would be the stupidest idea ever. However, there is a way to transfer the ID information to the police without handing the phone over, simply employ the NFC available on many (most??) smart phones. The officer would simply BUMP the phone and the record would be retrieved from DMV.

      There is no need to hand your phone over. Period.

      If you're rich enough to have a smartphone, you can likely buy a older phone just as your ID display unit.

      Personally, it's a good idea to simply shut down your phone if you ever have to deal with law enforcement in an official capacity (i.e., pulled over or border checkpoint). On iOS it forces password to unlock the first time (no TouchID), and assuming your password is not "simple" it can't be brute-forced easily. Even if it's part of a forfeiture at the very least they can't rife through your personal data.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    31. Re:Uh huh by bkaul01 · · Score: 2

      Yes. NFC directly supports contact info and URLs, and can be used to initiate a Bluetooth connection for file transfers. The former will definitely work; I don't know if the implementation of the latter is fully cross-platform or not. "Tap to Share (NFC)" shows up as an option for sharing photos on my Windows Phone, but I've never tested with an Android user to see if the file transfer goes through.

      NFC, however, just transfers encoded text; I don't know if it could be sufficiently secured to use directly for transferring DL info, though perhaps it could be used to initiate a connection via an app using Bluetooth.

    32. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only way I can see this being done without violating a persons rights, is for a remote verification method. Something like your phone contacts the DMV servers generates a QR code for you to display and the officer remotely scans that QR code to get your ID. Granted other basic identifying information could be provided with the QR code that could be useful for getting into businesses that serve alcohol, or buying cigarets.

      On top of that, using a phone for ID would have to be written into law an a not a search consent. So if you give the officer your phone for ID purposes that is all they can use it for. Anything else would have be against the law.

      In general I don't see an easy way to do this without someone at some point suing over it. It sounds good on paper, but it's going to be a real mess in real life.

    33. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are already devices that can download the entire contents of your cellphone to a policeman...they look like a big metal clipboard and are in use in many places. If your phone is in your car, the officer using such a device can get all your data. They are illegal in some states, but with the newly passed law allowing government interception and saving of all communications data on US citizens, that should change shortly.

    34. Re:Uh huh by richlv · · Score: 1

      have a pin pad. officer hands the pad to you in/on your vehicle, you enter the pin (make sure to hit all buttons in a random order afterwards).

      --
      Rich
    35. Re:Uh huh by RingDev · · Score: 2

      "Looking at your phone here it appears that you had a 5 minute call with the deceased on the night of the murder. Also, looking at your GPS log, it appears that you were in the vicinity of their apartment and then drove down some country roads near where we found the body."

      Never mind the fact that you are a friend of the deceased, live a mile away from them, and take the country roads to avoid the congestion of the main drag at rush hour. You are now suspect #1.

      Your phone's existence in today's digital age is in itself "important" when it comes to criminal investigations.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    36. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would that be an easy way to obtain fingerprints?

      Anyway, wouldn't it be easier to have a card you carry around with your rather than using a smartphone app?

    37. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The state will simply phase out plastic IDs over time and require the app. Then restaurants and bars will do the same. Probably voting "fraud checkers" as well. They will force us to be surveilled and tracked by our phones, one way or another. Picture not being able to drive your car unless you're carrying a phone with this app on it - just swipe your fingerprint and go. Enter a bar? Carry your phone. Shop? Phone. Walking and need to be identified by neighborhood watch or similar, or cops are summoned? Phone. And it will be so convenient! Oh, the stupidity.

      Today, a phone, but it may morph into a watch, or the comm rigg you have installed under the skin of your skull for e-telepathy, or your glasses, or retina interface displays. Kids in school carry trackers now - you all think they will care? We've been doing this since 9-11, giving up an inch a minute until it's all gone.

      More like a lack of imagination to connect the dots. And today Congress passed a bill that enables the Executive branch (all law enforcement, really) to obtain this info without a warrant. The frog is now boiled dead, so very very dead that he has been rendered into broth.

      Heinlein nailed this in "-If This Goes on" back in 1941. The eyes and ears are everywhere - just ignore them, went the worldly man's advice, because you can't avoid them and besides, "they" (anyone with juice and wants to get you) always like to have a little file of pecadillos to drag someone in should they feel like it. It's the innocent ones that worry them. Best to leave little bread crumbs of sin lying about to make our masters happy - not too bad, just enough to make them happy that you're under the thumb should it be necessary. If you're off the grid, or using encryted comm, you will shine like a star and they will surveillance drone your ass the rest of your life.

      Keep in mind that the biggest law enforcement/surveillance hookup in our history was in response to the Occupy protests. POLITICAL protest against corporate power - it set off every alarm, scrambled the spies and cops, locked it up and shut it down. Bank fraud that almost destroyed the world? No arrests. No convictions.

      So just be good corporate boys and girls, see a hooker now and then, and they won't bother you. Actually challenge their power, and they will find a charge to drag you back from anywhere on the planet, unless you find a friendly embassy or land that will run interference for you.

      Have a nice day.

    38. Re:Uh huh by richlv · · Score: 2

      good point about the fingerprints... but at least there are ways to avoid that.

      and i guess the idea is that people are less likely to forget their phone these days.

      overall, seems like a silly idea with so many drawbacks that are being ignored...

      --
      Rich
    39. Re: Uh huh by jd2112 · · Score: 2

      They said the same thing about the iOS programming API. (HTML and JavaScript should be good enough for anyone. Except us of course. ) That lasted about a week.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    40. Re:Uh huh by lgw · · Score: 1

      But law enforcement can get that history quite easily whether or not that have my phone, is the thing. It's the other stuff - personal photos, social media, and so on, that's key for searching phones.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    41. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Door security companies solved that eons ago - you don't need to hit random keys if the keys themselves are 8-element LED displays and arrange the 10 numerals in a random pattern each time the pad is used to query for passkey. I have no idea why ATMs and other keypad-entry devices haven't started using this simple solution. Makes video skimming, overlay skimming and fingerprint tracking completely useless...

    42. Re:Uh huh by richlv · · Score: 1

      ah, indeed - and some look like drop-in replacements for atms (quality matters, though) : http://www.sunsoninput.com/pid...

      --
      Rich
    43. Re:Uh huh by RingDev · · Score: 1

      "But law enforcement can get that history quite easily whether or not that have my phone" ... With a warrant.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    44. Re:Uh huh by lgw · · Score: 2

      "With a warrant"

      Thanks for the good laugh to start my evening off!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    45. Re:Uh huh by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Or use Knox? My Samsung comes with it and I've found it very useful for exactly this. 95% of what I do on my phone is innocuous. For the 5% of the activities that I might want to keep secret/secure (banking typically) I access the secure portion of the phone for it.

    46. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck getting it back.

      Civil forfeiture is a bitch.

    47. Re:Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its also validating that you can jump through hoops. Like earning a college degree.

    48. Re:Uh huh by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't have to transfer the whole DL info, as that is the point, just the DL number itself. Everything else the Police needs at that point is in a database elsewhere. This would simply expedite the process so the cop can issue the summons quicker.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    49. Re: Uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed! Just unlock your phone and give everything on it to strangers to look at, copy, email, and search!

  2. and it comes with a "handy feature" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One-button download of all personal data for the law enforcement officer's convenience!

  3. Not to sound too paranoid by thunderdanp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does this sound like a convenient way for Police to have unfettered access to your phone, in light of Riley v. California?

    1. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      A raft of excuses ("battery's dead") and security problems come to mind; how would you implement such a system?

      Not to worry, I have a phone charger with all the right attachments back in my cruiser. "Phone charging", quote on quote, is part of the many services we provide.

      Believe it or not, I even have this handheld $20,000 gizmo that can back up the content of your phone in less than two minutes, whatever brand of phone you use. It also helps that SSD memory, by design, doesn't try to overwrite its memory spaces of deleted pictures with newly taken pictures, unless it's absolutely necessary. It's a way to make the SSD memory more reliable.

      So if you're phone is not completely full, I may even find pictures that you deleted more than two years ago. Are you sure you don't want to tell me what illegal activity is on that phone, before I discover it myself. I'd go a lot easier on you if you told me now, instead of just wasting my time. After all, we both know I'm going to find out what you're hiding on that phone eventually, and then you'll be in hell of trouble.

    2. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops, I made a typo. "So if you're phone..." should be "So if your phone..."

    3. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by bigpat · · Score: 1

      Does this sound like a convenient way for Police to have unfettered access to your phone, in light of Riley v. California?

      Actually, I think it might be a convenient way to track drivers and eventually to tax people either flat rates or congestion taxes based on their road usage which could eliminate the need for electronic tags. Taxation is always a bigger motivator than police security. According to a local news story I heard reported a few weeks ago, there are systems in place used for traffic monitoring that already grabbing wireless data from people's cell phones. Apparently the technique is being used simply to model traffic patterns and for planning purposes. But there has been talk about the need to replace the gas tax with open road tolling and there is also a push by some urban planners and environmentalists (and the people selling these systems) to start imposing congestion type taxes around densely populated urban centers. Having an app for that already installed on people's phones would be a step in that direction.

      I think the public debate should be focused instead on simplifying and limiting the burden on people. Don't impose complicated solutions to simple problems. Just check people's odometers if we want to go to a mileage tax, don't need to track their movements everywhere.

    4. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      The article you are linking to is many years old. You can't extract anything from a modern iPhone if it is locked.

    5. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by rsborg · · Score: 1

      The article you are linking to is many years old. You can't extract anything from a modern iPhone if it is locked.

      Yes, with iOS8 and a non-simple passcode, you're correct. Recommendation is simply to shut down the phone if you get pulled over, that way they can't coerce you to touch-unlock your iOS device using TouchID either (first boot requires typed passcode to unlock).

      Any criminal or person who wants to hide their stuff will likely also have a decoy phone, turned on so the police can work on "something".

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    6. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
      That isn't going to help with today's users (esp. kids). The way they take pics and videos, they're going to constantly be deleting old stuff to make room.

      8 gig used to be unimaginably large. Now it's the bare minimum. Give them 64 gig, they'll fill it up - videos they've shot, videos from youtube, whatever. Video (esp. cat videos) will always expand to exceed capacity.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    7. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by gnunick · · Score: 1

      According to a local news story I heard reported a few weeks ago, there are systems in place used for traffic monitoring that already grabbing wireless data from people's cell phones. Apparently the technique is being used simply to model traffic patterns and for planning purposes.

      Yes, there certainly are such systems, and they're not all that new. The most prominent one is probably Google Traffic.

      --
      I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
    8. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by bigpat · · Score: 1

      According to a local news story I heard reported a few weeks ago, there are systems in place used for traffic monitoring that already grabbing wireless data from people's cell phones. Apparently the technique is being used simply to model traffic patterns and for planning purposes.

      Yes, there certainly are such systems, and they're not all that new. The most prominent one is probably Google Traffic.

      That is a bit different than what was described in the news story and what I was describing.... What the Department of Transportation was supposedly doing was actually using the cell phone pings to the towers in order to identify, triangulate and track vehicles. So there was no "opt-out" like you can do if you are using an android phone and don't want to provide location data to Google. The only opt out was to power off your phone.

    9. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That isn't paranoia. Paranoia is being certain the angels are watching you on behalf of the Frost Giants. You are only acknowledging the obvious. They LOVE to drag "paranoia" into the discussion of surveillance and control, even after (I have to bear down on this point) every observation we've made in 13 years about their power grab has been not only verified, but revealed as being far too unimaginative. And this is with Wikileaks and Snowden docs that are over a half-decade old - they've progressed far beyong that half-assed nonsense. We are in authoritarian hell, and we're exporting the tech all over the world, to whomever wants it and can pay. We can't vote it out. Our representatives and the President can't stop them anymore - how could they? Any attempt to take them down will be noted and dealt with one way or another long before it can threaten them. They know where we are, what we are saying, who we associate with, and what our plans are. You can't shut down the surveillance state once it is established. It is now a permanent shadow government which uses our elected systems as APIs to do whatever they will.

      And what happens when the "theys" become other kinds of "theys"? Moral drift, purpose drift... power is its own reason for existing.

    10. Re:Not to sound too paranoid by gnunick · · Score: 1

      Yes, a slightly different execution, but sounds like the same basic tech.

      Opt-out is good to have if it works (like you'd ever know...). But I don't think most people know that Google is even doing this. I had no idea until I got a job working with traffic information systems. Before that, I always assumed Google Traffic was getting data from local governments (e.g. from loop sensors embedded in the pavement, etc.).

      --
      I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
  4. Papers please by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    Big brother has made it more convenient for you to always carry the necessary documentation. It's every citizen's duty to make sure they have the necessary papers before they travel.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Papers please by aztracker1 · · Score: 2

      Funny... Police cruisers can look up your driver's license based off of your Social Security number or Driver's License number (if you know it)... I've been pulled over when I'd forgotten mine, and there was no problem. Not sure what problem this really solves except maybe more invasive government.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    2. Re:Papers please by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      What do you mean you don't have a smart phone license? No smart phone!?!? What are you communist?

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    3. Re:Papers please by ShaunC · · Score: 1

      In my state it's illegal to operate a motor vehicle without having the physical license with you. They can certainly look you up as you described, but you'd get a ticket for not having your license in addition to whatever infraction got you pulled over. I wonder how long before it becomes a crime in Iowa to be in possession of a smart phone without the state-mandated identification app installed?

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  5. It's a trap! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unlocking your phone for law enforcement means they can search it.

  6. Yes, freely hand it over... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Simply hand the law enforcement officer your mobile phone.

    ... and let him search through it.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Yes, freely hand it over... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presumably you hand your phone with the Driver's License app open, and closing the app leads to a lock screen so the officer cannot access other apps.

  7. I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by kheldan · · Score: 0

    Among other things it's basically giving them permission to search through my phone if they feel like it. Nope, I'll stick to a physical card.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The app could lock the phone except for access to the ID 'card', no?

    2. Re:I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by stephanruby · · Score: 2

      Among other things it's basically giving them permission to search through my phone if they feel like it. Nope, I'll stick to a physical card.

      Even with a physical drivers license, they always try to grab your entire wallet before you can pull out the driver license from it.

      In California, it's not like they even need my drivers license (motorcycle police officers excluded). Most of the times, the cops in cop cars can already pull any Californian's drivers license from their onboard laptop.

      The only thing I'm not sure about is their cell phone coverage. I assume they may not be able to download your data if they're outside of a 4G/3G cell phone coverage area.

    3. Re:I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by SecurityGuy · · Score: 1

      Really? Here, they insist you remove the drivers license from the wallet and give them just the license.

    4. Re:I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Even with a physical drivers license, they always try to grab your entire wallet before you can pull out the driver license from it.

      Always? I've never had that experience, they have always waited for me to collect and hand over the requested items... granted I've not been pulled over that many times.

      If true, I'd suggest finding a lawyer filing a report (and perhaps a lawsuit) about such incidences as their unwarranted entry into your vehicle would constitute trespass, taking your wallet from you would be theft, and any examination of the inside contents that are not in clear view without your permission would be an unlawful search (assuming there are no other circumstances that warranted such actions).

    5. Re:I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The app could lock the phone except for access to the ID 'card', no?

      Yeah, it's a pretty much guaranteed thing that the answer to that is " no ", the app won't lock the phone at all.

    6. Re:I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Of course it could, but the state is making it, so I doubt it will.

    7. Re:I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be white and or/not-poor. :)
      Permission will not be required, eventually, and you may be found guilty on the spot of being a wise-ass and be dragged out of your car. Through the window. They may not bother opening it all the way first. After they send the signal, manufacturer-supplied, to disable your vehicle and open the locks, and order up the records from the cabin camera and mic installed in all vehicles after, say, 2018. And they'll shoot the dog in the back seat, because that is standard procedure for them now. Their cameras will be sadly disabled because of a glitch. Oh yes, they'll order your phone to stop all recordings and enter Police Stop Mode. If you really piss them off, you'll find they can access what the phone camera has seen and mic has heard for quite a while. And delete what is not helpful to their arrest. Cops tend to lose video evidence that bothers them and aquire that which they need, and the DAs help out with enthusiasm.

      Wanna place a bet? I've been right every time for over 13 years. And I always fail to go far enough; they far surpass my predictions.

    8. Re:I'm not handing a cop my phone for any reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you've been 'right every time for over 13 years' because you do shit to antagonize cops when they pull you over or when they approach you on the street. Are cops assholes? Hell yes they are, but some people give them all the more reason to be assholes, and just from the attitude of your comment I'd bet you're one of them. Also if you're black I'd bet you keep perpetuating the negative stereotype of black people by slinging around the word 'nigger' with a frequency similar to the way most people use the words 'and' and 'the'. In short: Have you considered that YOU may be part of the problem? Seriously, I'm one of the people who gets regularly accused of spreading FUD and spinning wild paranoid scenarios, but you made ME raise an eyebrow with your dystopian future-view. So while I agree that cops are generally assholes with power-and-control issues who like to bully people (especially when you give them an excuse to) I also know that there are some people in the world who do shit to draw their attention. Maybe you shoud take a hard look at your life and see what it is you're doing to get hassled all the time instead of just putting the blame on 'the world'? Perpetual victims more often than not are at least 50% to blame, unless you're living in some shit-hole ghetto country ruled by criminals (like Mexico, for instance), but you're talking about high-tech stuff and posting here using an internet connection, so I think it unlikely.

  8. BAD idea... by Ragnarok89 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Bad, BAD idea. How do you ensure the police officer doesn't start rifling through your phone? You GAVE it to him/her, so you must have implicitly consented to their searching your phone.

    1. Re:BAD idea... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Not only that, the phone can run any app that displays any image. Remember those joke downloads that pretended to delete all your shit on the computer by faking the dos window and motions?

      So what happens when your credit card was used by you because i checked your ID and the photo matched. Oh,, i'm sorry officer, that warrant is for my cousin, not me- even though we look exactly alike, i'm someone else.. i can see all sorts of problems with this.

    2. Re: BAD idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can not legally convert the whole thing over to the smartphone app - this is an "encouraged alternative", not a complete replacement.

      Also, pretty much every member of the "barely able to afford food and rent" class that I've met has at least one smartphone, often more than one. Of course, the group my sister hangs out with tend to steal eachother's phones so often that none of them would ever be stupid enough to put their license on it. (Well, except my sister, but she isn't the brightest tool in the deck.)

    3. Re: BAD idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when one of those minorities doesn't have an iPhone, the thugs in blue will use that as an excuse to beat them. That is the way of their kind.

  9. Great way to hand over an unlocked phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to upload into a central database while they "check your license". (itsatrap)

    1. Re:Great way to hand over an unlocked phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's far worse than you think. They're trying to eliminate the wallet. So no more plastic credit cards, driver's license, medical insurance card etc. Your phone with apps replaces all these things. It's one small step towards "Every breath you take, every step you take, I'll be..."

  10. Have we reached peak app yet? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, I'm getting tired of the endless stream of apps.

    The world is an app, I have an app, everybody has an app ... it's lots of hype, and very little long-term proven benefit.

    I really hope we reach peak app soon, and people STFU about apps.

    Yes, fine, you have software. We've had software for decades. But now it's on a phone or a tablet. So it's an app, and it's super awesome, and we need to dedicate countless hours of coverage to it.

    And every drooling idiot is racing to ensure they're stuff is available on an app, and telling us how our lives will be improved and perfected by apps, and how if we're not writing an app we'll fall behind and become fossilized.

    You know what? Millions of people don't use smart phones, don't use an app for everything, and can conclude our normal bodily functions without relying on an app.

    I bet 99.9% of all apps are crap, or won't be around in 5 years. But, like the .com era, you can become a billionaire by saying you have an idea for an app.

    Blah blah blah .. take your damned app and get off my lawn.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by 6Yankee · · Score: 5, Funny

      Seriously, I'm getting tired of the endless stream of apps.

      There's a nap for that.

    2. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could use my new app, it's called, "Homophones and you: how simple spelling mistakes can make you look like an idiot".

      Maybe you should start with, "Contractions: easy to understand, and once you do, you stop making some homophone mistakes."

      Still working on the titles.

    3. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, I'm getting tired of the endless stream of apps.

      Exactly, thats what we made the world wide web for... ebay, amazon, banking apps... they do nothing new except what their web sites already do... And if people stuck to a tried and true/static HTML/javascript version for a decade or 5, there would be few security issues and things would Work!

      Things are worse every year as far as efficiency(time it takes to to a task, limiting # of tasks), they are turning modern computers into locked down privacy invading data collecting TV!

    4. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You sound old.

      What part of get off my lawn was ambiguous? It says "I'm old, now fuck off".

      Except as you get older you stop fetishizing technology, and decide that "no, I really don't care about this shiny bauble, because Matlock is going to be on soon, and I need to find my sweater".

      I still own and use a lot of technology, some of which was invented after the steam-powered interwebs became unfashionable.

      I've seen and used technology long enough to know that today's really shiny new toy is tomorrow's discarded detritus which didn't really improve my life any. Which means I've got the perspective to go straight to "I fail to see how this actually benefits me".

      I'd say around 85-90% of all apps I've installed on my tablet become something I don't use fairly quickly and get uninstalled. (Yes, I know what they are and how to use one.)

      I make my living working with technology, but I'm not completely beholden to it, and don't use it just simply because it exists. It needs to add value to my life, or it's just a nuisance and a gimmick.

      And, quite frankly, having my drivers license as an app on a phone? Not so much with the adding of value, and really high on the "annoying and eroding my privacy" front.

      If you think technology peaked in 2006 why do you even read new Slashdot articles?

      Because, when you get old enough, terrorizing the youngsters becomes a hobby unto itself ... and because half of the wet behind the ears punks around here don't remember enough technology to know a damned thing about it, and are clueless enough to believe there's always been a fucking app for that.

      But, after 30+ years of playing with, or working with technology ... I don't always think "hot damn, I need one of those". I think "yeah, we had something kinda like that 20+ years ago, and it was pointless then, too".

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by koan · · Score: 1

      long enough to know that today's really shiny new toy is tomorrow's discarded detritus which didn't really improve my life any

      This cycle is more about sales and marketing than anything else IMO.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    6. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I've seen and used technology long enough to know that today's really shiny new toy is tomorrow's discarded detritus which didn't really improve my life any. Which means I've got the perspective to go straight to "I fail to see how this actually benefits me".

      Woo! +1

    7. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      ^^^ Nice.

      On a side note, related to your original post, I think we're very close to "peak app." Everyone and their dog who is getting downsized, right-sized, fired, is chasing the "I'll make an app" mirage. Just look at recent "ask slashdot" questions ...

      When there are too many apps in a category, instead of taking the time to explore, you're just going to try the ones with the most users, so the more apps there are, the less effectively new ones can compete. The first mover advantage is SO gone.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    8. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And every drooling idiot is racing to ensure they're stuff is available on an app

      Perhaps you should download one of the many grammar/spelling apps available. While you're there, you can grab one of those live "Lawn" wallpapers. They have a customizable amount of kids that can be displayed on it, but, of course, it defaults to "NONE".

    9. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, my bank has an app. I was getting frustrated because I couldn't log in then it hit me.... Just use the browser....duh fuck the app

    10. Re:Have we reached peak app yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The apps are AIs that we grant legal permission to do things no sane human would let another person do. Web sites don't do that sort of thing in that manner.

      For instance: your bus tracker app requires your location. Buried in the EULA is the fact that they sell your location to third parties. Those parties track aggregated GPS tracking from hundreds of companies that do likewise. The aggregators then sell your movements to whomever in the bloody world can pay them a few bucks, warrant and law-free. And you said "yes"... That's just for starters. Fucking EULAs should have been annihilated twenty years ago! You can give up anything "legally" by clicking on a box, or walking through a door...

  11. No reason this couldn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After all, most card issued as licenses aren't nearly as secure as Apple Pay or Google Wallet.

  12. He consented to the search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    He handed me the phone willingly your honor.

  13. Only viable a secondary option. by blueshift_1 · · Score: 1
    I would say this would be an optional secondary method would be neat. However, I could see people forgetting about their physical copies (and then losing them) that could naturally lead to issues when the batteries died or they travelled out of state - where they might not accept electronic copies.

    And this would be a concern about phone privacy. Because by handing it unlocked with the intent to let them view content, you're basically handing them keys to the castle for any information on you phone. Which is why I'd see this only ever being a secondary option for the forseeable future.

    Also, I'd like to see how this could handle when the car was being operated by not the owner. Some sort of temporary driving permission would be pretty cool.

    It's definitely a neat idea, but the legal implications are definitely an issue

    1. Re:Only viable a secondary option. by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      Just make your lockscreen a photo of your license?

    2. Re:Only viable a secondary option. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it hard to remember to carry my licence at the best of times. In part that comes from 10 years of driving in a country that had no requirement to carry ID, but you only have to absentmindedly decide to pop out carrying only a credit card and forget that the licence was also in the wallet.

  14. Lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you can have them rape your phone and copy everything off with out consent too, right?

    "... the new digital license, which he described as "an identity vault app," will be accepted by Iowa law enforcement officers during traffic stops and by security officers screening travelers at Iowa's airports, he said."

    Oh good. I'm sure that is 100% secure without any possible problems and has been extensively vetted by third parties...

  15. Never had your cell phone to the police! by ChrisKnight · · Score: 1

    Seems like James Duane needs to update his lecture to include not handing 128GB of personal information to a cop who is going to take it back to his car to 'verify' it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    -- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
  16. Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by Are+You+Kidding · · Score: 1

    Amadou Dialo put his hand in his pocket to retrieve his pager and was shot 41 times. A phone these days, is not much larger than an pager was in 1999, and attempting to anticipate a police officer's request for a license could very well make you dead.

    1. Re:Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by helsinki92 · · Score: 2

      Sept 26 a South Carolina man was shot by police for re-entering his truck to retrieve his drivers license as requested by the police officer. It happens all the time.

    2. Re:Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Correct, which is why it is generally good to wait for the officer to request such documents, and not suddenly reach for the glove box.

    3. Re:Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "attempting to anticipate a police officer's request for a license could very well make you dead."

      Then we need to bring back lynching of public officials until cops are put in jail(minimum) for shooting unarmed members of the public. Cops are civilian soldiers and a soldiers primary purpose is to die in service for others, whether they do or not during their career is irrelevant. If they think it's something else which is why you see so many unnecessary killings by cops, they're in the wrong job.

    4. Re:Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

      How can you safely produce your wallet, which usually resides in your pocket? If you're all fired up worried about getting shot, put your hands on the hood of the car and tell them which pocket your phone is in. Having had my share of traffic violations requiring identification, it's never been an issue. Then again, I'm not black, so I get a lot more leeway in what constitutes a threatening move and what doesn't.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    5. Re:Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is it any different from putting your hand in your pocket to retrieve a wallet?

      i agree this is a bad idea but your reason for why is flawed.

    6. Re:Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by DaHat · · Score: 1

      So your solution to lawful violence is... lawless violence?

      I'm sorry, but assaulting a cop tends not to be a good way to avoid getting shot... just as Michael Brown.

      Resisting arrest... even over the allegation of selling untaxed cigarettes is not a good way to avoid being held on the with multiple bodies attempting to restrain you... just ask Eric Garner.

      Waving and aiming what looks like a real gun around in a park, then reaching for your waist when police come to the scene is not going to getting shot... just ask Tamir Rice.

      Now, when the cop sticks his hands inside of the vehicle and gets it caught in the steering wheel, and fearing that the driver is going to drive away shoots the driver... that's a great way to get yourself charged with murder... just ask Richard Combs.

      Why do you assume that the job of a solider or cop is to die?

      Patton would also disagree:“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.”

    7. Re:Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Nope, that still gets you shot.
      http://abcnews.go.com/US/dashc...

    8. Re:Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by DaHat · · Score: 1

      I said "not suddenly reach"... the victim in this turned rather quickly and reached.

      I'm not excusing the shooting, I just am recognizing how the actions could be misconstrued by an officer... who as your article points out has been (rightly) fired & charged).

  17. What a wonderful idea by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    Who needs a warrant now. Yes sir I just need to take your "license" back to the police cruiser for a few minutes...

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:What a wonderful idea by BrookHarty · · Score: 1

      Great, now I gotta carry 3 phones, my work phone, my personal phone, and the government mandated identification phone. You dont need the 4th phone the "weed" phone anymore in my state, its legal in Washington. Well, if weed is your only illegal activity...

    2. Re:What a wonderful idea by reikae · · Score: 1

      Maybe you could run those three phones in The Cloud, as virtual phones. Then you'd only have to carry one phone with you and connect it to The Cloud and switch between the virtual phones as necessary. Is there an app for this?

  18. Are Smartphones Compulsory? by rMortyH · · Score: 1

    It's a terrible and impractical idea. There is no need for it, other than app makers and data miners trying to make more money, and the police having a new reason to take your phone. It does not improve on the present system which is already computerized.

    But more important, will there soon be laws REQUIRING people to carry a phone?

    1. Re:Are Smartphones Compulsory? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      But more important, will there soon be laws REQUIRING people to carry a phone?

      You won't be required to have one.

      But it will be illegal to not have one. And it will also be illegal to not unlock it upon request from law enforcement.

      See, they're not allowed to search your phone, so if they change it so you're required to provide it to them, it's much easier.

      Especially if you're within 100 miles of the border. Then not having a phone/refusing to unlock it means they can trump up the charges to the point they can include DHS, seize it, and search it anyway -- and legally compel you to unlock it since it is now a matter of national security.

      Papers please, comrade. Give us the code for your phone or we'll beat it out of you.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  19. I can see it now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I gave the officer my phone and he never returned it. Or he broke it while he had it. Etc.. As for privacy, no thanks, not handing a cop my phone. It's never the license I have a hard time finding it's the registration to the car...

  20. I'm from Iowa and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when I heard this yesterday my first thought was "How f-ing stupid do you fascist bustards think I am?"

    1) Here officer, take my phone which the courts have said I don't have to give you access to without a warrant.
    2) Of course the new app will require access to your GPS location 24 hours a day, full access to incoming and outgoing texts, phone calls, email, twitter, contacts, etc.
    3) It will run resident in memory and send updates to the central server every 1 minute.
    4) You will no longer be able to turn off your phone without government approval.
    5) They will never build teh approval request portion of the system.
    6) Once deployed, not installing the app will constitute a felony.
    7) I'll assume this won't take more than 1 or 2 days to hack and spoof.

    IMHO

    Fill in the list with anything else you care to add.

  21. Cops carrying chargers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Battery is dead is an excuse that'll never fly.

  22. speed enforcement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Add an extra bit of code to the drivers licence and it can use your gps to help the police know how fast you were going.

  23. As a secondary option, sure by iamacat · · Score: 1

    I have given my cell phone with insurance card image to a police officer before. Those things are sent out twice a year, and we have two cars, so ensuring both end up in both wallets in a chore. If I don't produce the card, officer will be less charitable about other circumstances of the stop and I will need to go to courthouse in person to file proof of insurance. I would imagine one's problems would multiply if he/she also forgot the driver license.

    Now, this would be an absolutely horrible thing as the only available option, for obvious technical and privacy reasons. And why police does not have a database to get any needed information, complete with photos of all authorized drivers, from license plate/VIN numbers is beyond me.

    1. Re:As a secondary option, sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the rest of us put it in the glove box, not our wallet.

    2. Re:As a secondary option, sure by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If only the updated proof of insurance covered the weeks leading up to the new 6-month term instead of needing to keep 2 in the car or wallet or timing the swap out with precision.

  24. well now, let me think by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    I think some sort of laminated credit card sized thing with the holder's photo, licence class and serial number might fly in some states.
    Yanno, something that doesn't require a battery and can be stowed on the back side of the sunshade so your hands are always visible to a LEO with an itchy trigger finger and a nervous disposition?
    ICBW, YMMV, etc.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  25. FTFY by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    It's every citizen's duty to make sure they have the necessary papers before they drive on public roads.

    It is called license and insurance (in most places).

    1. Re:FTFY by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Yeah, of all the Soviet Russia conditions where "your papers, please" could be used to identify the US as a police state, this is NOT one of them.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  26. Come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean really, what the hell is so difficult about keeping your driver's license in your wallet and your registration / insurance card inside something in the glove box?

    1. Re:Come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are moving to the future. Get on board, or get left behind. Just like ApplePay means you no longer need to carry those outdated plastic credit cards, this will mean you no longer need to carry around an outdated plastic driver's license card.
      They are probably just hoping for a little distraction from the monotony of the job.
      http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/10/24/east-bay-chp-officer-accused-of-stealing-nude-photos-says-its-game-for-police-california-highway-patrol-sean-harrington/

    2. Re: Come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing. This is just an option for those who are affluent and trusting. It will let wealthy people off the hook as long as they are willing to hand over the rest of the phone's contents for scrutiny.

      No one is talking about the promoters of the scheme/app or what advantage they seek. I'm shocked that the data collection aspect isn't explored or that GEICO and its slimy little lizard isn't implicated.

      Obviously, anyone who is stopped and uses such an app is in line for a rate increase, right!?

  27. Does anyone remember Amadou Dialo? by Amigo+Van+Helical · · Score: 1

    This is exactly my worry. Say you choose to comply. How can you safely produce your phone? "All my information is on my phone, officer. May I put my hand in my pocket to retrieve it?" Even that may not work in the absence of properly curated incident recordings.

  28. RTFA by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    People will still be able to stick a traditional plastic driver's license in their wallet or purse if they choose

  29. like our state's seatbelt law by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Unlocked cant be the primary reason for pulling someone over in my state. But the cop can add it to a ticket for something else. So they could check if you been texting in the previous five minutes while driving then.

    1. Re:like our state's seatbelt law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Unlocked" can't be any reason at all for pulling anyone over in any state. On the other hand, driving while black, broken *crunch* tail light, or any number of other made up on the spot reasons can be. And if you're using that app for a license, then handing over your phone unlocked means the officer can look through your data at his leisure - having your phone unlocked though, is still not a ticketable offense. (Though maybe it should be?)

    2. Re:like our state's seatbelt law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is an incorrect assumption. There are probably many states where they can pull you over for not wearing your seat belt. Minnesota is one such state.

    3. Re:like our state's seatbelt law by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Oregon is another.

  30. the are apps for taking complaints by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Either as a part of someones service, or general rant apps.

  31. In Canada, they already have it covered by ihtoit · · Score: 2

    The Supreme Court over there recently ruled that warrantless searches on mobiles belonging to arrestees are legal. If you refuse to hand over your phone/licence in CA because of whatever's on your phone or because you fear the privacy boogeyman, they'll just arrest you and use the precedent to search your phone anyway.

    I said this shit was coming. I said it fucking years ago, even before contactless payments with iOS and RFID chips embedded in handsets.

    So fucking glad I don't have a working phone.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    1. Re:In Canada, they already have it covered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Supreme Court over there recently ruled that warrantless searches on mobiles belonging to arrestees are legal

      Yes but that's if you're being arrested if your just being given a ticket for a burnt out signal light then you have no reason to let them evaluate your entire life to decide if you may be a criminal or not.

    2. Re:In Canada, they already have it covered by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      refusal to hand over your licence and registration for inspection is an arrestable offence in a lot of places. Including Canada. Not so much implied consent, but black and white, right there in ther terms of issue, that the documents in question must always be carried and must be produced to a competent authority* on request.

      Thank you, come again.

      *Competent authority: a police officer who has probable cause or even mere articulated suspicion grounds to stop you in your vehicle.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    3. Re:In Canada, they already have it covered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the trick then is to not have a working phone?

    4. Re:In Canada, they already have it covered by rsborg · · Score: 1

      refusal to hand over your licence and registration for inspection is an arrestable offence in a lot of places. Including Canada. Not so much implied consent, but black and white, right there in ther terms of issue, that the documents in question must always be carried and must be produced to a competent authority* on request.

      Thank you, come again.

      *Competent authority: a police officer who has probable cause or even mere articulated suspicion grounds to stop you in your vehicle.

      So give them the paper documentation and keep your smartphone (if you have one) locked, preferably turned off. Does the recent decision allow them to force you to turn it on?

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    5. Re:In Canada, they already have it covered by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      if they move to a phone app for the licence and abandon paper licences altogether, there'll be no debating the matter, it's either produce your *phone* or be arrested for refusing to produce proper documents in which case they'll take it anyway.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    6. Re:In Canada, they already have it covered by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      what I mean is, that ordinarily they can't just search your phone on a traffic stop (what did someone call it the other day? A "Terry Stop"?), because all they had then was an actionable suspicion that you'd committed some misdemeanour worthy of a paper citation (busted tail light or whatever), but now, they've got you on an arrestable misdemeanour (refusal), hence have probable cause to search your phone and whatever else just to see what they can compound the charge with. This judgement is a licence for opportunistic enforcement.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  32. It's all archaic. by MarkvW · · Score: 2

    A "license" isn't a thing--it's a right or privilege to do or not do something. The State keeps a complete record of you and the scope of your driving license at the Department of Licensing. All they need is a fingerprint, or maybe even optical recognition of your face, and they can access that data from their patrol car.

    An "app" as a "license" is just as archaic as a paper license today.

    1. Re:It's all archaic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which totalitarian state keeps a fingerprint record for everyone owing a driver license?

    2. Re:It's all archaic. by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Or if you're driving your own car, a camera on the front of the officer's car could OCR the license plate and get the registered owner's family and their licenses all pulled up automatically. It's not like aluminum plates are cheap anyway - put a long-range RFID sticker on it when it's issued.

  33. Can you say "Hell Fucking No?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here officer, just take my phone, and while you're at it feel free to copy its contents to your mobile scraper.

    If you voluntarily hand your phone, unlocked, to a cop, you are just BEGGING for trouble. Fuck no.

  34. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't the police have computers? Can't they just query the DMV themselves? Maybe I need to sell an app that displays a fake ID on your phone if this is what they depend on.

  35. Why not? by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    A proper implementation should be by the OS maker, though, which automatically locks the phone when the app is accessed - or in which the license/insurance/registration information can only be accessed from the home screen via a special unlock code/access which does not unlock the rest of the phone contents.

    While a super-secure app isn't really necessary for police, since they can just call in your license number and verify you're legal/in the system, for things like age verification, you'd have to add some kind of simple challenge/response functionality for people who don't have access to police records (bouncers, cashiers, bartenders).

    Not that it matters. Until Apple/Google get the whole NFC payment bullshit worked out and every vendor has an NFC terminal we're going to be carrying around other slabs of plastic to pay for things. Carrying a license isn't really an extra burden.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  36. App Permissions and In-App Purchases by xyz321 · · Score: 2

    Like many apps, the Driver's License app will probably require access to your SMSes, phone call record, contacts, calendar, location, and photos for no good reason at all. You'll also need to wait in a queue for a few minutes to view your driver's license, but you can use an in-app purchase to skip the line.

  37. Cards and apps are both unecessary by mikecase · · Score: 0

    Why would we need either these days? The gov already has an electronic record of my drivers license and photo. Why is it necessary that I carry one around? I get pulled over, tell them my name and they can pull up my file on the patrolman's computer (in car/tablet/whatever) and verify it's me. It's not like the card is my actual drivers license anymore, it's the computer record. The card just made it easy to verify my identity before we had pervasive computer networks.

  38. Nightclubs too? by MindStalker · · Score: 1

    I get that the cop can easily verify it, all he needs is your ID number and he can look you up. So there really is no need to hand him anything. But I don't see how one would make this app secure or usable as a form of ID for buying alcohol or getting entry into bar.

    1. Re:Nightclubs too? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      unless you're getting carded by an actual person, you can just generate a 3D barcode and have it scanned. The code contains a physical description of you and your birthday.

    2. Re:Nightclubs too? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      A 2D barcode is certainly easier. I don't know about you, but my phone doesn't have a holographic projection screen.

  39. A government app on my phone? by grimmjeeper · · Score: 1

    Hell, they don't even need to pull me over to search my phone. What could possibly go wrong?

  40. Re: I think I speak for everyone when I ask.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Get your license ID and social security number tattooed on your head so you don't have to fumble around looking for your smart phone or if it's charged or not

  41. Re:I think I speak for everyone when I ask.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. what does Bennet Hasselfoff have to say about this?

    Yes Bennett please continue to contribute frequently!!!

  42. Weak Biometry and dated/failed encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Add weak biometry so that when it is hacked/stolen, not only does the iPhone thief have the phone, but they have bank-cards, and the weak biometry that would allow ongoing identity theft even in a biometry protected ecosystem.

    Add today's version of substandard encryption with the justification that it has to run on even old processors. This means that tomorrow, when the upgrades are complex and expensive, they have the politically expedient statement assuring budget deciders that what exists is sufficient even while the reality is that it is highly permeable, and easily foiled.

    Allow integration with other apps, like the bank account, the credit cards, and even the license/title of the car. That way when the thief steals the phone, they can steal the entire net worth and future of the individual.

    PS: this is what NOT TO DO.

  43. Warrant? by weiserfireman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This seems to be a way to get your cell phone out of your hand and into the hands of the police, without a warrant, and your permission.

    SCOTUS recently ruled that the police can't search your phone without your permission, absent a warrant. Now you get pulled over, and you have to hand your unlocked cell phone to the nice police officer, while he leaves your site and goes to his car for 5 minutes or so.

    Now he has the opportunity to see what else you might have on your phone.

    As a bonus, since he has your phone, you can't use it to record your interaction with him.

    What is wrong with the piece of plastic in my wallet? It has worked well for a long time. If my State offered it, I might add it to my phone for fun, but I would still have the wallet card to give to a police officer.

    1. Re:Warrant? by rsborg · · Score: 1

      This seems to be a way to get your cell phone out of your hand and into the hands of the police, without a warrant, and your permission.

      SCOTUS recently ruled that the police can't search your phone without your permission, absent a warrant. Now you get pulled over, and you have to hand your unlocked cell phone to the nice police officer, while he leaves your site and goes to his car for 5 minutes or so.

      Now he has the opportunity to see what else you might have on your phone.

      As a bonus, since he has your phone, you can't use it to record your interaction with him.

      What is wrong with the piece of plastic in my wallet? It has worked well for a long time. If my State offered it, I might add it to my phone for fun, but I would still have the wallet card to give to a police officer.

      Nothing in the article claims this app wouldn't work on an iPod Touch - you can get an older one for less than $100 now - keep it in your car, charged and hidden. If you don't have your license card, you show them your iPod touch. If this app doesn't work on offline devices, I'd say it's not worth installing.

      Don't install the app on the device that contains your digital life.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  44. Why do police need papers anyway? by Trachman · · Score: 1

    Why it is a burden of the tax payer not only to pay taxes, which are used for the systems for human and property databases, but, also, burdened with the need to have the old copy of the database record?

    Papers are the relict from medieval and industrial, pre-computer and internet era.

    Currently one only needs to identify himself and that should be enough data for any cop to pull all the databases and photos of the individual that is being detained.

    Somehow it is always the additional burden on the taxpayers that are always imposed and very rarely, if ever, bureaucratic requirements are eliminated.

    Abolish plastic driver's license ID, paper insurance and paper registration.

  45. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And this differs from existing fake licences how?

  46. How to Implement This? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got a good idea for implementing this. You install the app on your phone. Go to your local DMV, go through standard verification process, and they will hand you a pre-printed access card for your app. This card contains all necessary authentication to access your license. When needed, you can hand over the access card, and the authorities can use the data on the card to access your profile as needed.

    The best part? You can actually skip the step of installing the app on your phone. All you really need is the access card.

  47. Battery dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " A raft of excuses ('battery's dead')..."
    No problem, the officer will charge your phone long enough to produce the license app. Possibly with his taser...

  48. QR Code or Similar by akpoff · · Score: 1

    I'd prefer a card and electronic version with name, photo and QR Code (with human-readable number below) that an officer could scan or type in could link to the appropriate government database that has all the rest of the info. The user could choose which to present.

    There's no reason to have a document with your address and phone number to permit driving or function as ID. Every cop car I see has a laptop and wireless access. Easy to look-up and verify.

    We'd have to figure out how to let legitimate 3rd parties (e.g., banks, employers) access the db securely without the ability to access too much information. Still, even if we gave them full access to address and phone details it's no worse than the current situation and better in many.

  49. Cops might also be interested in where you've been by Streetlight · · Score: 1

    The comments here seem to focus on the situation that by giving your unlocked phone to a cop so he/she can see the driver's license will allow the cop to get everything on the phone. One other purpose may be to see where you've been. This may occur if the Driver's License app makes use of the GPS system on the phone so that it records your itinerary and your speed. Could you then become a suspect in a crime because you were someplace where a crime was committed even if you were totally innocent? You might also get a speeding ticket for speeding a long time before the cop stopped you or could even have measured your speed.

    --
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
  50. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by bigpat · · Score: 1

    Don't the police have computers? Can't they just query the DMV themselves?

    That is the point I keep coming back to... the idea of a picture ID or any paperwork that you carry with you comes from a time when we didn't have networked computers with access to real time information. It seems reasonable that we could just eliminate having to carry around physical IDs altogether (at least as a requirement of the law) and have the police taking pictures and/or typing in a name to verify someone's identity.

    Facial recognition could be used to make the look-ups faster and more accurate. And most drivers are associated with one or two vehicles, so the police could have someone's picture up before they even approach the driver in most cases.

    At some point relying on the information provided by a picture ID just isn't reliable and has always been prone to being faked. Much better to just check the picture stored by the DMV than to trust a picture on an ID. Sure the network can go down, but that really should be the exception and we can probably think of a better fallback than a piece of plastic with your name and an old picture on it.

  51. FFS by koan · · Score: 1

    Simply hand the law enforcement officer your mobile phone.

    *forehead slap* how stupid can you be, officer walks back to his car plugs in Apple approved reading device and copies phone content, contacts etc, oh yes your "encryption" you trust a company that let "goto fail" slip through...

    Idiots.
    Now your "phone" is your wallet, your drivers license, your social life and you are completely owned, and dissected by the corporations in a way the often feared "666" tattoo or "chip implant" could never have done.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  52. Low-tech concern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When, in the process of handing your phone over, it gets dropped from at least the height of the bottom of your car window and falls onto the pavement/concrete, who's responsible? What if the phone then bounces and/or slides into traffic where its run over? Who's going to believe your word that the cop fumbled and dropped it? And even if the cop admits at least partial responsibility, is that going to help pay for repairs or an entirely new phone?

    At the movie theatre when the teenager behind the counter wants to take my phone to scan the loyalty code I politely decline, saying "I'll hold it thanks. And, by the way, my personal recommendation is that you don't take on the risk of touching any customer's phone. Because if its dropped in the transfer, isn't the customer always right?" I've yet too see the "oh yeah" light go on in any of their eyes, but I keep trying.

  53. Fuck it by koan · · Score: 1

    It's time to go Tyler Durden.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  54. Simply hand the law enforcement officer your mobil by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

    HAHAHAHA. No.
    Have you not been paying attention?

  55. And if you're black.... by tekrat · · Score: 1

    The cop will shoot you dead while you are reaching for your cell phone....

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
  56. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

    Facial recognition could be used to make the look-ups faster and more accurate. And most drivers are associated with one or two vehicles, so the police could have someone's picture up before they even approach the driver in most cases.

    With a driver license, it's really _you_ who will be trying to convince the police officer that you have a valid license. So facial recognition isn't really needed. You're right, most of the time a police officer taking a photo of your license plate could automatically be shown photos of one or sometimes two people who are most likely driving the car and are in the system as having a license or as having no license.

    If nothing comes up or the driver doesn't meet the pictures, the driver would need to give the police officer information that leads to the license. Typically name and birthday, or address, or even license number if you learned it by heart and don't want to give your name. Then same thing, the information is looked up and a picture shown to the police officer.

    Problem would be if you lost your license and gave your twin brother's information. Knowing that information is probably much easier than stealing his driving license.

  57. Not a chance by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    I cannot imagine a circumstance where I would voluntarily hand my cellphone to a cop. I'd be FAR more likely to hide my cellphone and tell the cop I don't have one. They're far too eager to search them.

  58. In the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the UK, you don't even need to carry any driver's license with you. Much more civilised.

    1. Re:In the UK by geantvert · · Score: 1

      IDs are not needed in the UK because they already know who you are. The security cams are following you 24/24-7/7.

  59. battery's dead... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ....guess you don't have your license (same as if you forgot your wallet at home).

    personal problem. enjoy your ticket.

  60. This is brilliant by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 2

    What is really amazing, and just freeking audacious to say the least, is how the IDOT is even considering doing this.

    With all the recent focus on digital privacy, etc, especially since the "outing" of the NSA via Snowden, with the protests against police brutality a la Ferguson, etc, it just amazes me that something like this would even be considered. Amazing.

    Who in their right mind would hand their unlocked cell phone to law enforcement?
    The reality is, they are always looking for something, anything, any scrap of information, or anything misconstrued or misinterpreted, to be USED AGAINST YOU.

    People keep forgetting, it doesn't matter if you haven't done anything wrong or not. That doesn't matter and never did. There are loads of Americans out there who have been "put through the ringer"(putting it mildly) by LE who were honest people who never did anything wrong.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    1. Re:This is brilliant by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

      wringer - a press with rollers to squeeze water out of wet laundry.

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  61. Re:I think I speak for everyone when I ask.. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I don't know, but I'm sure a dozen lolbertards will be along any minute to explain why it's equivalent to socialised medicine and death panels.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  62. Define the problem by Senior+Frac · · Score: 1

    What problem is this technology suppose to solve again? Do we have a use case?

  63. Low-tech solutions or limited access by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 2

    Offer drivers low-cost or free phone cases with space to hold their driver's license on the back. Driver pulls their phone out of their pocket (it's likely more accessible than their wallet) and shows/hands the back of the phone to the officer.

    Offer drivers a holder that attaches via suction cups or similar mechanism to their dashboard. Find some way (driver's license doubles as an EZPass? Cops have a scanner that lets them bring up the driver's information more quickly when they stop a motorist, rather than having to take it back to their vehicle?) to encourage drivers to put their licenses in that holder while they're driving.

    The privacy and security considerations are strong arguments against turning the driver's license into an app or something similar. But if they really want a high-tech solution, working with phone manufacturers to create a lock screen app (open source, to reduce the chances of a back door) that allows a police officer to enter a code (which gets logged on the phone manufacturer's servers and should be able to be associated with the individual officer) into the lock screen to display JUST the license info, not actually unlock the phone. This would also be useful if a phone is lost, stolen, or used as part of a crime; it would allow the police to identify the owner.

  64. Fake IDs just got 1000x easier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You look a lot younger in person, <Insert Name of Famous Celebrity>, and you also look more like a <Insert Opposite Gender>, but who am I to argue with a valid license? Enjoy your beer!"

  65. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by pkinetics · · Score: 2
    Wait, how many states associates a driver's license with the vehicle registration?

    Granted, it could be loosely inferred / deduced based on other relateable elements.

    Additionally, as states are not required to share DMV records, or at least I don't think they are, lost my train of thought... Something relational data missing content, etc.

  66. highly secure... by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    compared to something inside the vehicle, locked possibly twice, with no means of digital nor of remote access. oh, and breaking into a car is very illegal. stealing a car even more so.

  67. Awesome! by azav · · Score: 1

    I worked on that product for 9 months!

    Great to see it come to reality!

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
  68. Can Candian cops force you to unlock your phone? by rsborg · · Score: 1

    Reportage of the decision here:
    http://www.thestar.com/news/ca...

    The real question to me is whether this means that a Canadian cop, once (s)he's arrested me, for some whatever infraction (running a burnt out light) could then force me to unlock my phone so (s)he can rife through it.

    If so, the Canadian police state is more fully formed than in the US.

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  69. "they must think we are all stupid" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    many years ago in my single days I was WALKING home from a bar on new year's eve (technically day) and was stopped/harassed by a local cop. when I made a slight shiver (did I mention it was 01:00-ish new year's day?) he looked at me & said: "it's warm in the back of the car if you want to warm up while I run this". he claimed I took off running when I saw him (I was lightly jogging b/c it was COLD & I only lived a few blocks down street but I never turned around & looked back - prick!)

    that was the day I had my "cop rule" epiphany: no good can ever come from interacting w/a cop - the best you can do is break even/waste your time and the scenarios go downhill from there in a hurry... they're a necessary evil & still the lesser of but the trend line is moving in the wrong direction...

  70. Locked Phone App... by DonCam · · Score: 1

    ....when our OS on the phone allows locked apps that can't exit to anything else, then and only then would something like this be useful. I don't even like letting people use my phone to make calls (rare as that occurance is) because they could look through my phone if they felt like it. Maybe make the first screen unlockable and anything past the first screen requiring yet another unlocking and you can choose what you want to put on that first screen. Always thought this too when handing a kid the phone to play with for a bit, best to keep things locked down to one app or something. I'm sure there's an implentation somewhere for it already, just needs to be more widely available.

  71. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by bondsbw · · Score: 1

    Yes, but it isn't reliable. There are plenty of locations that don't have adequate cellular data service.

    --
    All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
  72. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by thogard · · Score: 2

    The FAA has been trying to point out this fact for decades. The paper pilots carry around isn't a pilots license, it is a certificate of license. The license is held in a computer somewhere and when that is revoked, the paper saying you have a license is meaningless.

  73. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by richlv · · Score: 2

    around here, police verifies all data you give them (licence, vehicle registration, insurance) with the hq. if they can't communicate, they are not allowed to perform any of those checks (and i think the internal guidelines say that they must "return to base" or something like that)

    --
    Rich
  74. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by bondsbw · · Score: 2

    Yes, police will verify through dispatch even if they do not have data service available. Depending on your jurisdiction they probably have different rules as to whether the officer must release the suspect. Where I live, a traffic stop is legally equivalent to an arrest and I wouldn't be surprised if the officer would make an educated decision on bringing the suspect in until at least the officer can contact dispatch.

    --
    All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
  75. Hand your unlocked phone to the police? by ZipK · · Score: 1

    No thanks.

  76. Here's an improved method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having a drivers licence on your phone sounds good.

    If people can't produce it then logically Police should have on their phones/tablets/computers a database which has your drivers licence. They just ask you for your full name, date of birth, and address and it matches it.

    Here in Australia if you don't have your licence on you when you are stopped by a police officer then my understanding is that they take down your details and give you 24 hours to report with it to a police station.

  77. What could possibly go wrong??? by mikein08 · · Score: 1

    Other than everything ...

  78. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    Wisconsin does. I found that out when i got pulled over for having an expired license (license not tags). i managed to forget to renew it and the plate scanner flagged that the registered owners license was expired.

  79. What a deal by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    Now they can dump your phone when they pull you over..

  80. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by schnell · · Score: 1

    It seems reasonable that we could just eliminate having to carry around physical IDs altogether (at least as a requirement of the law) and have the police taking pictures and/or typing in a name to verify someone's identity.

    Neat idea but it misses a lot of practical problems.

    Many police cars are equipped with cameras that can read via OCR your license plate (called "Automated License Plate Recognition" or ALPR) and check against a database to see if your car has been reported stolen, is reported in an Amber Alert, etc.

    However, the person driving the car is a totally different issue. Let's assume that there's no requirement that you have a personal driver's license.

    The officer pulls you over for speeding and he/she says, "name please?" You say "Oliver Klozoff." Without that government-issued ID you can make up any darn name you want to. That officer has no way to get you to produce your real name, even if it is Osama bin Laden and you're driving around the country touring Whataburger locations. Oliver Klozoff isn't an owner of that car? Well, your friend lent it to you for the afternoon, what's wrong with that? So without the fact that driving without a physical license is a crime, the cop has no way to figure out if you are a wanted person or not. Not a great thing for catching wanted people (see Timothy McVeigh and his traffic stop arrest after the Oklahoma City bombing for example).

    On the flip side of civil liberties - the officer pulls you over for speeding and he/she takes your picture and runs it against a visual database stored by the DMV. Unfortunately, because it's nighttime and lit only by the officer's flashlight, and you grew a beard since you had your driver's license photo taken and put on some weight, you are no longer recognized as a valid driver in your state. Why not arrest you just to be sure?

    You get the idea. Think of a driver's license like a form of two-factor authentication. It's not the physical card itself which is important so much as that it is a token which only you are supposed to have, which links you back to a known set of credentials at the state level which can be attached to a permission to drive, a known wants/warrants record, or so on and so forth. Just like how your physical passport isn't what is important when you enter the country - it's just a good way to get started when they scan it into a database where the real information is stored that can figure out who you are.

    --
    "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
  81. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Florida does. You need a valid license to get the registration, and the computer system is very, very good at managing data. I had to get a new license the other day, and it took under fifteen minutes total, from walking in the door to walking out with the license. Efficient as fuck. Give them any one selector (SSN, address, name, whatever) and the clerk can tell you everything they have about you, from your driving record to your registrations to the vision restrictions on your license to your organ donor status. This information includes your date of birth, SSN, and your insurance company. It's all tied together in one system.

    Also, Florida has the "Sunshine Law." All public records except FERPA/HIPAA data are made available to the public for a nominal fee. That means that the DMV/Tax Collector's Office sells its *entire* database (sans SSN, apparently) to marketers. As soon as you get a license or a new car registration, you start getting junk mail.

  82. Not Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh HE (double hockey sticks) no am I giving my phone to anyone!

  83. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by bigpat · · Score: 1

    On the first issue. Having a database association between a car registration and known or even likely drivers is a relatively trivial exercise in associating different databases... namely car registrations and licenses. Shared address would be the simplest way to associate cars and possible drivers. But that would clearly not be 100% reliable, so it would be merely a convenience for the police so they don't have to manually enter information for writing up a ticket or checking for outstanding warrants. Actually, it could be of added benefit because it could end up bringing up information on other household members who may very well be in the car at the time.

    The only concern about making up a name that would be valid is if the courts saw making up a name or withholding your name as a valid exercise of your first or 5th amendment rights. Otherwise you could simply make it a requirement for drivers to give their real legal name to police and it would be practically no different than presenting a fake ID or refusing to give your ID to the police. And the benefit is that such a system would eliminate the possibility of people getting cited for driving without a license just for forgetting their license at home. It is a real shame that in most states the system has made forgetfulness a misdemeanor. I know that I have left my wallet at home probably half a dozen or maybe a dozen times over many years and driven my car, thankfully never got caught.

    As for the ID being a convenient way to get started for looking up someone's data. I don't dispute that. Especially, for all those scenarios where someone has a hard to spell name or like you mention a hard to facially recognize face. Having a card with a name, picture and bar code on it makes some sense. And there are many many somewhat artificial reasons that having a physical ID makes sense. Like access to Federal facilities requiring a REAL ID compliant state issued picture ID. So I wouldn't argue for a wholesale overnight change. But I do have a concern that most states have laws on the books that make a simple and reasonable act of forgetfullness a misdemeanor crime.

    I think what I would suggest as way to make the law less unnecessarily onerous would simply be to allow people to avoid an additional citation for driving without a license if the police can verify your identity via other means and can verify that you do have a license to drive. So simply eliminate the misdemeanor for those who have merely forgotten their licenses as long as the police system is working.

  84. Re:transfer the ID information to the police by bigpat · · Score: 1

    Most people live where their car is registered. And most commonly it is household members that might be driving that car. So address is a pretty solid way to associate the data. No not 100%., but that wasn't the point. It was merely a convenience for police to be able to bring up the record of someone more quickly based on the car registration.

    Name or Name and address should be more than sufficient 99% of the time to bring up the records for an in-state driver.

    As for out of state drivers... states have to determine reciprocity for a variety of licensing, so that isn't a new problem.

  85. before they drive on public roads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or walk down the street. Or be brown in the wrong part of town.