Slashdot Mirror
Apparent Islamic Terrorism Strikes Sydney
An anonymous reader send this link to a developing situation in Sydney, Australia, being reported on via live feed at the Guardian, and covered by various other news outlets as well. According to CNN's coverage, "CNN affiliate Seven Network said that at least 13 people are being held at the Lindt Chocolate Cafe. It published a photograph of people inside the cafe holding a black flag with Arabic writing on it. The flag reads: "There is no God but God and Mohammed is the prophet of God."
From The New York Times' coverage: The police have shut down parts of the city’s transport system, and closed off the mall area. They would not confirm how many people were being held hostage inside the cafe, nor whether those inside are armed.
Local media reports said that the airspace over Sydney had been closed and the famed Sydney Opera House evacuated. Television images showed heavily armed officers with their weapons trained on the cafe.
The airspace over Sydney isn't closed, nor is its airport. Flights are being diverted around the CBD (both by order from the authorities and voluntarily from the main domestic airlines agreeing to divert).
There is only a Spaghetti Monster! He is going to meat ball you!
I'm skeptical of the peaceful nature of a religion founded by a warlord; but at this stage we don't know that it's not some nut-job who is trying to capitalise on the ISIS popularity.
(I'm writing from one of the buildings currently in lock-down because of this situation)
Two men claimed to have walked into a bar. Only one had the bruises to prove it.
To be perfectly honest, does anyone have statistics (recent) on the number of terrorist acts that are committed by Christians? I'd like to compare them with Islamic terrorist acts, because it seems to me that Islamic apologists need a wake-up call.
There are about 500,000 Muslims in Australia.
1 of them is committing this crime.
Too bad the major news networks are probably airing this from every angle, live. I bet the jihadis know how to use TVs too.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
Fundamentalists. They hate us for our chocolate.
"Lost time is not found again."
If you can get through, 2GB has excellent rolling coverage on their radio station. Ray Hadley (the presenter) has had various calls throughout the morning from one of the hostages who speaking on behalf of the terrorist wants to speak to Tony Abbott (Prime minister) live on air.
http://2gb.com/listen-live
Getting data on these issues is complicated. If one restricts to the US, then about 10% of all terrorist attacks are Islamic. See http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/muslims-only-carried-out-2-5-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html. But not only is this restricted to the US, it uses a very broad notion of what counts as terrorism. If one weighs in the US by total deaths, then Islamic terrorism swamps everything else primarily due to 9/11. Worldwide, about 70% of all terrorist attacks are by Sunni Muslims but this varies from year to year. See for example the 2011 report NCTC report http://fas.org/irp/threat/nctc2011.pdf. Again, definitional issues can move this number up or down by a lot.
Some people consider it a "hate site" for some reason, but so far, nobody explained away the list.
Ezekiel 23:20
You dignify the human waste who perpetrate such idiocy by calling them "terrorists".
They are much more likely to be some loser who has no idea what else to do with
their miserable piece of shit lives, so they decide to do bad things.
Calling them an asshole is much more likely to be accurate. Calling them a terrorist
gives them more credit than all but a tiny fraction of such scum remotely deserve.
didn't expect that...
Learn? Learn? LEARN?
Crack open a book sometime. Islam has been trying to take over the rest of the world pretty much since the day it was founded. Liberal fantasies about Western colonialism are flatly contradicted by the entire rest of history. From Charlemange to Dracula the rest of the world was actively under siege.
This is just the next chapter in a very long history that's not pretty if you actually bother to pay attention to it.
Being able to ignore their oil really wouldn't change the situation all that much.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I know that sometimes on Slashdot, we get 'stuff that matters,' but can't we at least talk about the police drones involved in the situation? Or even that Uber is reportedly charging users a minimum $100 to get out of Sydney CBD. At least attempt to make it seem relevant please?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Uber is reportedly charging its users in downtown Sydney a minimum $100, a result of surge pricing introduced in the midst of an armed hostage crisis, Mashable has learned.
http://mashable.com/2014/12/14...
Islam is a peaceful religion, that's why followers just went out of their way to do this. And in Canada we had two terrorist attacks(one in Quebec), and another on Parliament Hill in two days.
My interpretation is that Islam is just like any other religion. A bunch of people who think their religion wants them to be perfectly nice and peaceful, and a bunch of others who think it demands they cleanse the Earth of non-believers.
If you followed the attacks in Canada you noticed that the attackers were recent converts to Islam. Their attacks weren't motivated by Islam, they were motivated by ISIL's culture of terrorism and enabled by whatever personal demons caused them to jump headlong into a new religion. Islam is just the language that ISIL uses to communicate that culture.
I stole this Sig
Well, Christianity is a peaceful religion too. Perhaps that explains the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition.
Crusades are easy, that would be a response to 100 years of Muslim rape, slaughter, and forced conversion in Spain. The Spanish Inquisition gets interesting, because it was a direct result of that. Surprise right? You're dealing with an entire group of extremists that responded to extremists in kind. Then again, that's not what they teach in school anymore is it. Rather many paint it as "it was all the christians fault."
Om, nomnomnom...
The Crusades were a backlash against Muslim invasion nitwit.
As a former Muslim who lives in western country:
1. Islam is not a peaceful religion, and to believe so you must either be a Muslim or a very naive person. Peaceful Muslims exist of course, but simply because they do not follow Islam strictly enough.
2. Conservative western politicians who make use of terrorism to their own political benefit are not much better than the terrorists, in that both sides have no problem using people's safety to advance their own agenda. Typically they are also the ones that support wars worldwide.
Guns aren't allowed in coffee shops in Australia. News story must be fake.
Some people consider it a "hate site" for some reason
It contains facts that doesn't fit with their world view.
Om, nomnomnom...
Look man, even Bush said, "The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam.....Islam is peace." He was something of a warmonger, but even he realized that you shouldn't go to war against an entire religion. The enemies are easy to recognize, they're the ones who are trying to kill us, no matter what religion they profess.
Seriously, when you're more irrational than Bush, it's time to stop and think if you have a problem in your head.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
There is nothing in attributed to the Christian god himself — nor any of his prophets — that required Crusades or the Inquisition.
On contrast, Koran — which purports to be the word of god verbatim — mandates that the faithful convert or kill the pagans and (tax the Christians and Jews). The prophet himself — whom Muslims world-wide adore — was an illiterate warlord, who used genocide centuries before it became cool.
Bible has plenty of warlords too, but none of them are His prophets. King David is described as a hero, but he killed too many people to found the Temple — the task was left to his son. Not the sort of quibbles, Muslims would consider...
The Crusades ended in the 14th century. Spanish Inquisition (a secular institution, BTW — ran by Spanish Crown) is also many centuries in the past. Since then the Western world has created the First Amendment, among other things. If you have nothing contemporary to contrast the ongoing craziness of the "religion of peace", you've lost your argument...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
You can get enlightened here. I quote:
The First Crusade (1096–1099) ... ended as a military expedition by Roman Catholic Europe to regain the Holy Lands taken in the Muslim conquests of the Levant (632–661), ultimately resulting in the recapture of Jerusalem in 1099. It was launched on 27 November 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuq Turks from Anatolia.
And is EXACTLY the same as Christianity.
Both are religions that base their entire structure around "we are the one true correct path and all others are wrong". Both have been used to dominate other populations.
That said religion is just a tool to control the masses. It is no different to other ideologies in that case.
Be sure to tell the Albigensians. I'm sure they'll be glad to know this.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Of FFS. Please stop spreading your ignorance.
You can easily obtain a firearm in Australia. In fact I own multiple. The thing is you have to be licensed and have a valid reason for owning one, and self defence is not a valid reason. You need to be a member of a club, pass a police check and have some character references. Then you need to wait a year after getting your license. It's a bit of a pain in the arse but it is far from impossible.
I own multiple semi-automatic pistols for competition shoots and a bolt action rifle for bench rest shooting.
Whether you agree with the gun laws in Australia, and as a shooter I do, to say they are near impossible to own is complete crap. What I would say is that Australia is a very safe place to live and your chances of getting shot here is almost zero. You don't ever hear about kids getting shot cause the knocked on the wrong house door during Halloween.
It's not the World Trade Center, and it's not Bali. It's a single cafe and a maximum possible body count than your typical school shooting in the US (which can hardly hold the news media's attention for more than a week any more).
This news wouldn't have made it out of Australia (if even NSW) if it weren't for the Islamic bogeyman angle.
Nobody does.
Both of the people were mentally ill. Bibeau, the homeless Ottawa killer, had a history of violence, drug addiction, and mental instability, including 12 convictions in Quebec between 2001 and 2011 for crimes including drug possession, impaired driving, weapons offences, assault causing bodily harm, theft, and possession of break-in tools, which started long before he converted to islam.
Rouleau, the Quebec killer, had been taken to a psychiatric hospital by his father, but they couldn't keep him when he said he wanted to leave. He had drug problems, had to be in a special school for kids with discipline problems when he was younger, his personal life had fallen apart, his business had failed and last year at 24 he turned to islam, looking for something to cling to where he wouldn't feel like an inadequate failure, and was attracted to the extremists on the net and in the media.
Most people are able to make the distinction between a nutbar using a religion as a smokescreen to their using violence to escape their own failures or shortcomings, and the majority who peacefully practice that same religion. This applies equally to muslims, christians, atheists, or whatever your personal preference or poison.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Calling them an asshole is much more likely to be accurate. Calling them a terrorist gives them more credit than all but a tiny fraction of such scum remotely deserve.
I've often had that same thought. Calling them "terrorists" is really glorifying them, at least in the eyes of the impressionable. They are thinking "hey - I want to be a brave terrorist just like him!" All news headlines should refer to them literally as "assholes" or "losers". Then watch how many people now are going to say "hey - I want to be an asshole and a loser just like him!".I don't think quite so many would want to emulate that behaviour.
Might be referring to the numerous sting operations bordering on entrapment where the prime impetus for a group of would-be terrorists turns out to be an undercover federal agent encouraging them to cause trouble.
The police here were using illegal spyware to infiltrate peoples computers to capture data, instead of using the legal processes available to them, to reveal some "potential" attacks.They then whipped up a media frenzy to garner support to pass new security legislation that would legalize the use of such methods. Of the 16 "suspects" 15 were released without charge and a 16th on a minor charge.
This sort of thing is what that legislation was supposed to prevent.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
And here, mass shootings tend to only take place in areas that prohibit or have severely curtailed the carrying of firearms.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
And is EXACTLY the same as Christianity.
No, it really isn't.
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
For you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard.
So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
Christianity advocates persuasion and being an example. "Fundamentalist" christianity is actually very peaceful. That doesn't prevent very unpeaceful people from trying to commandeer a philosophy's good reputation and use it for to try to conquer others, but those types of people will use anything they can get their hands on.
I'm hopeful that someday we all can learn to peacefully cohabit this planet, and maybe even stand up for and protect each other.
Some people use religion as an excuse to hurt or kill, while others use it as inspiration to improve their own and others' lives. I think it has more to do with the person than the religion.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
In the book of Numbers, chapter 31, Moses orders the murder of every man, woman, and child in a city that was promised to his own people. When his army came back with children prisoners of war, he rebuked them, ordered them to slay the male children on the spot, and allowed them to keep the female children for themselves as spoils of war (there are plenty of other stories similar to this about the OT, and involving Moses specifically).
So, yeah, warlord.
And about Constantine founding Christianity...
When the religion was illegal by Roman law, there were many separate Christianities with very different beliefs (and they quarreled with one another, as well as with the Jews that wanted to stay Jewish). Once Constantine decided to make Christianity the official religion of Rome, he also picked the specific set of churches that he agreed with and established their representatives as the proper religious authorities. They promptly declared the other varieties of Christianity to all be heresy, had their books burned (some recently recovered in the Nag Hammadi library revealing just how different these Christianities were).
So, Christianity (or at least Catholicism) as we know it today was very much the work of Constantine.
What degree of risk would you associate with the KKK, a predominately Christian organisation, may start targetting muslins? I would say it is non-zero.
Well, maybe, but as long as they stick to targeting muslin and don't attack wool or polyester, I think we'll be OK.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
We should give up more of our constitutional rights NOW, before it's too late.
I'm not trying to defend them, they're as ridiculous a caricature of villainy as you can get, but they're a product of the east west dynamic much more than a product of Islam.
Right .....
ISIS Jihadis Get ‘Slavery for Dummies’
One of the biggest problems the West has is recognizing them for what they are based on their actions and who they say they are as opposed to what the politically correct nonsense being published in the West says about them.
Unfortunately it isn't just ISIS, Al Qaida, and company.
Russian Blondes Wanted for Islamic Sexual Slavery
“I hope that Kuwait will enact the law forsex slaves”
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Its a lone gunman.
Police arent calling it a terrorism, it wasnt an IS flag being waved, airspace wasnt closed.
But hey, why not use criminal activity to drum commercial media activity.
If you want proper coverage journalism go to ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission), its govenment funded but independently operated.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/201...
Sorry to hear this unfolding :(
An unarmed populous is easier to terrorize. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G... When being armed is illegal (or restricted to the point of being nearly that), only the bad guys will be armed in such situations. Waiting for the police to come save you is often an ineffective endeavor.
Australia's gun laws are what has prevented this person from having an assault rifle. He's armed with a small single barrelled shotgun. Having more armed people will ensure that more incidents like this will occur and a lot more often.
And I am an Australian. Our gun laws have prevented things like this as criminals cant get easy access to guns.
We are not terrorised here I can assure you.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Oh, by the way, the Breivik argument is just hilarious. He's the one guy who tripled Norway's homicide statistics for one year. That alone should tell you something about Norway. And the fact that Breivik is even newsworthy after three years when something like six acts of Muslim religious violence on average end up with death daily really drives my point home. The same week that Breivik killed 77 people, Muslims around the world killed at least another 95 (just for religious reasons, mind you - that's what we're counting here). But one Breivik is newsworthy only because it's such a rare occurrence. Norway doesn't have low homicide rate because it's Christian - it really isn't, it has a low homicide rate because it's not chock-full of crazy brainwashed wackos.
Ezekiel 23:20
Australia doesn't have the 2nd Amendment.
Not true. The second amendment to the Australian Constitution in 1910 amended Section 105 so that it read
The Parliament may take over from the States their public debts, or a proportion thereof according to the respective numbers of their people as shown by the latest statistics of the Commonwealth, and may convert, renew, or consolidate such debts, or any part thereof; and the States shall indemnify the Commonwealth in respect of the debts taken over, and thereafter the interest payable in respect of the debts shall be deducted and retained from the portions of the surplus revenue of the Commonwealth payable to the several States, or if such surplus is insufficient, or if there is no surplus, then the deficiency or the whole amount shall be paid by the several States.
Where previously it had read
The Parliament may take over from the States their public debts as existing at the establishment of the Commonwealth , or a proportion thereof according to the respective numbers of their people as shown by the latest statistics of the Commonwealth, and may convert, renew, or consolidate such debts, or any part thereof; and the States shall indemnify the Commonwealth in respect of the debts taken over, and thereafter the interest payable in respect of the debts shall be deducted and retained from the portions of the surplus revenue of the Commonwealth payable to the several States, or if such surplus is insufficient, or if there is no surplus, then the deficiency or the whole amount shall be paid by the several States.
In retrospect, I should not have posted the "brick testament" link. It was needlessly snarky.
Here are a few passages about Moses' military exploits, without the snarky lego commentary.
The slaughter of women and children at Midean: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=28...
The slaughter of women and children at Bashan: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=28...
The slaughter of women and children at Heshbon: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=28...
But that isn't your argument.
Your argument is that Islam is inherently violent (which is what the site you linked to is trying to say). Dont try to change the argument to all religions because you've been proven wrong (you want a list of attacks, the IRA did over 10,000 bombings on its own).
Extremism is bad and causes people to do irrational things. Your brand of extremism is as bad as any other.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Only fully automatics and semi-automatics are banned here. That is a good thing because this tool walked into a cafe with a shotgun, not an AK47. At worst it's a double barrel sawn off
Just to clarify this as it is a little more fine grained that an outright ban. To own a semi-automatic rifle you need to be in a career which requires it. So culling from a helicopter is one of the few occupations which allows you to own a semi-auto rifle. Semi-auto pistols though are a standard item in IPSC and ISSF competitions so you are able to own them without a problem but the size of the magazine is restricted to 10 shots. There is however no restriction on the number of mags you carry (odd I know).
Pistol ownership also requires you to actually use the weapons rather than just say that you do. So if you own just 1 pistol you must do a minimum of 6 competitive shoots with that weapon each year. If you own 2 or more you must do a minimum of 4 with each. I own a .22 semi an air and a .32 semi so I need to do a minimum of 12 competition shoots per year.
Fully automatic rifles or pistols are outright banned. As are self-loading and pump action shotguns.
Moving the goal posts means you've lost the argument.
You said it yourself, this guy trippled Norways yearly homicide rate in 3 days. How many of the Muslim incidents you allude to occur in war zones or countries that have an open revolution? Most of them. It's like saying all Christian nations are unsafe by Colombia as an example. The difference between us is that I can recognise BS and you cant.
Norway is an extremely safe country and a rational one. The way Norway picked up and carried on After Breivik is a shining example to us all. No fear mongering or revenge wars.
But where are the extremist Islamic attacks in Norway... at least one per week please.
And this makes you a xenophobe.
Which was the point of my argument, you aren't interested in the truth, you're interested in things that agree with you.
Now here's the kicker, I'm an Australian, I live in Australia and I know a hell of a lot more about this than you do considering how biased and inaccurate your sources are.
This guy is simply not right in the head. It's not that he's a Muslim that caused this, its the fact he's mentally ill. He's already lost 5 of his hostages (they escaped out the back door) he's that incompetent. This is more an indication of Australia's failing mental health care than the rise of Islamic extremism.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Constantine did not found the RCC. He just changed Roman law so that it would be legal. The RCC predates Constantine, and was solidly entrenched in Roman society by the time Constantine made it a legal religion. Constantine's change in Roman law wasn't proactive; it was reactive.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
As far as I can tell, by definition, when supporting ANY side in the Ukrainian conflict, you're supporting the bad guys...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Can I just think that taking orders from your invisible imaginary friend is a case for a shrink, no matter what you call him?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You think someone wanting to fight and die because his imaginary friend told him it's a good idea is NOT mentally deranged?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Aside from the fact that Christians did exactly the same when they reconquered the Iberian peninsula, and aside from the fact that in that time Muslim societies were far more liberal than any Christian society (Jews usually fled to Muslim countries from Christian countries), would you mind explaining why no bloody crusade ever went west to Spain, but all East to Jerusalem?
The crusades were the product of a fanatical Christian society, with the motivation of paradise for the soldiers and spoils of war for the commanders. They sacked, plundered, raped anything between Europe and Jerusalem, and that includes Costantinople that at the time was Christian. Which was expected of any serious army at that time. The pretext for war was the "liberation" of Jerusalem, and the real drive was a combination of poverty, ignorance, greed and religion. So the crusades were pretty much the ISIS of the second millenium.
Do read up some history lest you spout more of such nonsense.
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
This is what you get when you're short-sighted with your immigration policy
When they have the numbers, they will be up to their mischief
Look around the world, you'll see that this is not a new phenomenon -
They will first DOMINATE - becoming a very vocal minority
Then they will INTIMIDATE - and call anyone who disagree with them "racist" or "hater" and everything their opponents do as "hate speech", "hateful acts"
... and ultimately...
They will SUBJUGATE - the Middle East, Pakistan, Iran, North Africa, and so on, used to be places where the number of non-Muslims were larger than Muslims
Now?
In Pakistan they burned two Christians alive in a kiln
In Iraq / Syria they cut off the heads of Christians
In Northern Nigeria they kidnapped over 200 young girls and forced them to converted into Islam and then married them to much older Muslims
... and so on, and so forth
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Calling them an asshole is much more likely to be accurate. Calling them a terrorist gives them more credit than all but a tiny fraction of such scum remotely deserve.
I've often had that same thought. Calling them "terrorists" is really glorifying them, at least in the eyes of the impressionable. They are thinking "hey - I want to be a brave terrorist just like him!" All news headlines should refer to them literally as "assholes" or "losers". Then watch how many people now are going to say "hey - I want to be an asshole and a loser just like him!".I don't think quite so many would want to emulate that behaviour.
Well, the problem with that is that the people involved don't call themselves "terrorists" in the first place, and they certainly don't care how the Western Media label them.
In their eyes, they are freedom fighters, holy warriors, God's Special Forces, or whatever.
A bit of name-calling really isn't going to stop them.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it