US Links North Korea To Sony Hacking

schwit1 writes Speaking off the record, senior intelligence officials have told the New York Times, CNN, and other news agencies that North Korea was "centrally involved" in the hack of Sony Pictures Entertainment. It is not known how the US government has determined that North Korea is the culprit, though it is known that the NSA has in the past penetrated North Korean computer systems. Previous analysis of the malware that brought down Sony Pictures' network showed that there were marked similarities to the tools used in last year's cyber-attack on South Korean media companies and the 2012 "Shamoon" attack on Saudi Aramco. While there was speculation that the "DarkSeoul" attack in South Korea was somehow connected to the North Korean regime, a firm link was never published.

Comments

with what?

[__aaacoe2998]

Their vic 20's?

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

please, North Koreans infiltrate South Korea daily. The latest Technology is literally only 20 miles away.
I lived there for awhile btw

Re:with what?

[DarkOx]

The official line so far is "The DPRK is responsible, but the attack originated from somewhere else".

"Responsible" most likely means hired someone to do it. Knowing the DPRK they probably paid those someones in reasonably good quality counterfeit US currency. Though that is pure speculation on my part bast on past news events.

The fact they won't tell us form where else means "China" again pure speculation on my part but common its not like DPRK has exactly normal relations with anywhere else. They would tell us if it was some other pariah regime some place, so I assume it has to be China as its the only place I can think of that DPRK would have access and would be to politically sensitive to name.

Keep in mind, I can't recall if it was 2k11 or 2k12 but the Obama admin did not exactly dispute the pentagons view that "cyber" attacks could/should be viewed as an act of war. The "terror" threats against theaters have escalated things from a criminal matter, attack on a corporation, to a state matter attack on the public and order; therefore some kind of "response" is required. I am sure 0bama is trying to find a way to "do something" or appear to be without pissing off the Chinese.

Which to now purely editorialize, I think pissing off the Chinese and souring trade relations would/could be the best possible outcome here for our nation but that is a different discussion.

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

You lived in North Korea? How was it like?

Re:with what?

[_merlin]

Keep in mind, I can't recall if it was 2k11 or 2k12 but the Obama admin did not exactly dispute the pentagons view that "cyber" attacks could/should be viewed as an act of war. The "terror" threats against theaters have escalated things from a criminal matter, attack on a corporation, to a state matter attack on the public and order; therefore some kind of "response" is required. I am sure 0bama is trying to find a way to "do something" or appear to be without pissing off the Chinese.

So the US has committed acts of war against Germany by tapping their head of state's phone, etc. Or is it only an act of war when it's against US interests?

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Surveillance is surveillance, aggression is aggression. We have living spies in Germany and it isn't seen as grounds for war, and Germany has living spies in D.C. and it isn't seen as grounds for war.
Modern diplomacy consists of a massive amount of non-destructive espionage, days of bickering between diplomats, and then 5-minute photo-opportunities between elected officials. The first two are not publicized, but are much more important to continued peace than the P.M. and President blathering on stage.

"Cyber attacks" would be properly categorized as a subset of sabotage, which is seen as a very aggressive act even when no one is injured. Due to politicking, they're probably categorized as WMD usage, but the proper category would be sabotage.

Re: with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an act of war when the opposition has natural resources to pillage.

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the US has committed espionage. If the US engineered the release of a large amount of, say, Siemens' internal documents, then threatened terrorist attacks against anyone who bought their products, that would be an act of war.

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno. I can think of a number of state and non-state actors who might benefit even more than those useful devils, the North Koreans, from developing the ability to stifle craven entertainment moguls, studio heads, or more importantly, rogue elements of the press actually attempting to do their jobs. Actors including, in fact, the U.S. Government, which, while never, ever having perpetrated a lie or a fraud on the public before, of course, cannot be said to have been ruled out entirely here. Ask James "Least Untruthful" Clapper. or Hector Monsegur, maybe. More to the point, ask another Federal asset, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula. "You just never know." to quote a late night radio talk show host.

Release the code so independent eyes can analyze it. Al least show the analysis.

Re:with what?

[OverlordQ]

The US didn't say "If you use your phone, we'll blow you up"

Re:with what?

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

The official line so far is "The DPRK is responsible, but the attack originated from somewhere else".

"Responsible" most likely means hired someone to do it. Knowing the DPRK they probably paid those someones in reasonably good quality counterfeit US currency. Though that is pure speculation on my part bast on past news events.

The fact they won't tell us form where else means "China" again pure speculation on my part but common its not like DPRK has exactly normal relations with anywhere else. They would tell us if it was some other pariah regime some place, so I assume it has to be China as its the only place I can think of that DPRK would have access and would be to politically sensitive to name.

Russia also fits the bill, although I'm not surprised that you didn't know that. Russia still has reasonably friendly relations with North Korea and shares a small border with it where North Korean "guest workers" (really slave labor) do logging and perhaps some other manual work on the Russian side for little pay and without any choice in the matter. Putin just recently said he was looking to improve relations between the two countries. North Korea spent years playing its patrons the Soviet Union and China off each other. The USSR and China had strained relations for many years and North Korea leaned towards whichever side at the time it could get more money out of. The Soviet Union gave them their first nuclear reactor and the training necessary that put them, if unintentionally, on the path to getting nuclear weapons. Boris Yeltsin had the good sense a long time ago to stop all payments to North Korea, basically saying "Too bad. So sad." They've never been resumed. So he left China holding the bag for being 100% responsible for financially propping up the regime. Kim Jong-Un's father was actually born in Russia, although official reports in North Korea deny this. And his grandfather was a Russian military officer during the 2nd World War and became the eventual dictator of North Korea because Russia's first choice for the job turned it down and grandpa Kim seemed loyal enough to the Soviet Union to be a really good back up choice. So while Russian-North Korean ties don't get much press, Russia gets all of the benefits, whatever they are, of being "friends" with North Korea without any of the costs that China got stuck with.

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Germany instigated 2 world wars in the last 100 years lest we forget so quickly.

Re:with what?

[Blaskowicz]

The US actually did say that, in a way.

https://www.techdirt.com/artic...

Of course that's in the context of asymmetrical war in poor, failed state countries.

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh that is not a problem NK would take a leaf out of your play book declaring any males in the theaters over the age of 15 and under 65 as enemy combatants in a war zone.

Re:with what?

[DarkOx]

I agree certainly if the official line turns out to be untrue than the rest of my thinking has to be tossed out along with it. I also agree they ought to release code and show the analysis.

Trouble is if it does implicate the Chinese they have keep it under wraps for the same reasons they won't come out and say "China" in the first place. So we don't have a good way to know if its all a false flag to justify the surveillance state as I think your suggesting or if they are being truthful with us. At least until I have a little greater personal stake in this than not seeing a probably terrible Seth Rogan movie, I guess I'll take their word for it. Now once someone start proposing legislation or invading some place, etc; than I'd be very cautious of the fact that in absence of the hard facts the very real possibility they are lying as they are know to often do exists.

Re:with what?

[Cigarra]

What about Stuxnet? Is that an act of war that merits a "response" from Iran?

Re:with what?

[DarkOx]

I don't know given our current antagonistic relations with Russia and the fact we are already imposing sanctions on them I kinda think if it had Russian finger prints they'd name names.

If anything it would make Putin look worse and serve to counter Gorby's argument that Putin isn't a bad actor but Russia is just being bullied by expansionist NATO policy.

I also suspect old Vlad recognizes his current situation is tenuous and complex enough without adding direct aggression against the US homeland to the mix at least not without being prepared to take credit for it. If the Russian state had anything to do with it they'd probably be out claiming it was done to hit back US economy in response to our "unjustified" sanctions or something.

I'll admit I am just arm chairing this thing with no real info but my guess is if it was done from/in Russia its organized crime without direct ties to the Kremlin.

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I heard Sony was a Japanese company.

Re:with what?

[Moof123]

Yes.

Re:with what?

[zioncat]

So the US has committed acts of war against Germany by tapping their head of state's phone, etc. Or is it only an act of war when it's against US interests?

That story was a hoax.

No proof so far that NSA bugged Merkel's phone: prosecutor

Germany's top public prosecutor said an investigation into suspected tapping of Chancellor Angela Merkel's mobile phone by U.S. spies had so far failed to find any concrete evidence.

On Wednesday he said however, "the document presented in public as proof of an actual tapping of the mobile phone is not an authentic surveillance order by the NSA. It does not come from the NSA database.

"There is no proof at the moment which could lead to charges that Chancellor Merkel's phone connection data was collected or her calls tapped."

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are an idiot and you can't write for shit. Just stop.

Re:with what?

[HiThere]

What you have demonstrated is that there is no politically acceptable proof, not that it didn't happen, and not that the document did not match something from the NSA database.

I haven't followed this, so I don't really have an opinion one way or the other, but what you have provided does not constitute proof that it was a hoax.

Re:with what?

[Ralph Wiggam]

Iran is free, as a sovereign nation, to respond to Stuxnet in any way they see fit. But they know that escalating the situation will probably go poorly for them.

Re:with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, with something way more sophisticated.
http://i.imgur.com/I5nn8nx.jpg

Re: with what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Germany has saved western europe from communist occupation.

I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it sucks for Sony. But it is Sony's responsibility to protect its data, not the US Government. Hell, Sony isn't really even an American company. Personally, I think it's pretty creative of DPRK to do this and funny. And I hope Sony, and all other Big Companies (tm), learn a lesson. It's not as expensive to spend the money to properly maintain your security than it is to have it massively breached and all your data stolen. Didn't they learn anything from the PSN breach?

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[brunes69]

Sony Pictures Entertainment and Sony Computer Entertainment are two totally separate companies that for all intents and purposes are completely disconnected at all but the most senior executive levels (the C-Suite).

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it sucks for Sony...

Yes, it sucks to be an employee (or ex-employee) of Sony too. Or a member of their families.

From the article in Variety

Many things beyond imagination will happen at many places of the world. Our agents find themselves act in necessary places. Please sign your name to object the false of the company at the email address below if you don’t want to suffer damage. If you don’t, not only you but your family will be in danger.

Perhaps you didn't realize the full implications of the breach? Or maybe it's just creative and funny to be threatened just because you worked for Sony at one time.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[khasim]

It's not as expensive to spend the money to properly maintain your security than it is to have it massively breached and all your data stolen.

Not as expensive if you only count money.

But in my experience, the problem is the upper executives and their insistence on special exceptions for them and their people who are doing work that is just so important that they cannot be burdened with following the security that applies to non-important people.

And I hope Sony, and all other Big Companies (tm), learn a lesson.

I think that this reinforces the wrong lesson. Everything is okay as long as you can find someone else to blame. Whether it's an employee or a hacker group or a country. The focus will be more on THEM rather than Sony executives who broke security so that they could feel more important than the nerds in IT.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[DarkOx]

Right, I think that's the important difference here if there is one. In general I agree with the GP post cyber security should be the responsibility of the network/computer operator not the government. Costs should be born by the victims and their insurers; or by the perps when they can be identified and brought to justice as a general principle.

In this case though we have a threat of violence and terror on top of the simpler criminal matter. These guys are not threatening to just empty a few bank accounts and embarrass some more celebrities. They have moved from the realm of nuisance crimes to violent crimes and the state definitely has an interest preserving public safety.

As to how credible the threat is and should we be reacting to every threat to do violence out there, well I would say they have displayed at least enough capability to hack a major corporation that no doubt has a security team. They also have at least some financial resources backed by the DPRK. So this isn't an angsty 14 year old on facebook. Do I think they can project themselves into the physical world they way they claim, probably not, but its probably not worth risking that by just ignoring them entirely either.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[jellomizer]

If North Korea bombed Sony in Japan, It would be US responsibility.
The bigger issue here is that there is an other country fighting to prevent free speech. By taking down and *Threatening* them. This isn't some small set of wackos but an actual government. So it is a big deal.

I didn't want to see the movie, but now I do just to make a point.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't excuse them in any way, shape, or form really. The PSN breach was big news and anyone with half a head on their head would pay attention and then take a look around their own office to shore things up. That requires time and money to do though and if the senior executives don't authorize it then shame on Sony for being fooled twice.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't want to see the movie, but now I do just to make a point.

And Sony high-fives their social-media-savvy guerilla marketing team</extreme-cynicism>

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[dargaud]

Also the fact that the DPRK is ready to put its cards down for a mere movie should be considered a good thing. This way we can be (somewhat more) ready against them for when the shit really hits the fans. It's not like they can repeat the same attack with as much success, and it's never guaranteed that you'll find another vector as successful.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[gtall]

Well, it is funny in a funny sense. The real problem is it showed the fragility of American media companies (movie chains) to blackmail and exposes a problem with freedom of speech. When an outside power can effect freedom of speech to this extent, it becomes a serious issue.

Writ large, someone mentioned it was probably the insurance companies that put a stop to the showing of the film. That lesson will no go unnoticed by other bad actors in the world.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Marginal Coward]

I interpret this quite differently. This can be viewed as a childish act of vanity by a child and the country he happens to rule. Or, it can be viewed as a preemptive strike against future DVDs of "The Interview" raining down upon the country from balloons in order to create unrest among The People. Or, it can be viewed as a message to enemies of all kinds, including other nations. Basically, if they're willing to put their (cyberattack) cards down for a mere movie, the message is, "Don't mess with us." This is particularly ominous coming from people who have nuclear weapons and missiles.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be real surprised if one of the principle actors in the film were to suffer some sort of unfortunate "accident" in the very near future. If so, we can interpret that as part of the message.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

If North Korea bombed Sony in Japan, It would be US responsibility.

No.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes it would. One of the conditions for Japan not maintaining a military is that the U.S. will protect them.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the 'C' stand for what I think it stands for?

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[jriding]

Management feels it is better not to secure.

"A quote from a sony cio interview from 2007 regarding security sums up the problem and assures this type of mess will continue...

"The cost to harden the legacy database against a possible intrusion could come to $10 million, he says. The cost to notify customers in case of a breach might be $1 million. With those figures, says Spaltro, âoeitâ(TM)s a valid business decision to accept the riskâ of a security breach. âoeI will not invest $10 million to avoid a possible $1 million loss,â he suggests."

http://www.cio.com/article/243...

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

How would the people play those DVDs? You know, without power or DVD players.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Coren22]

Missiles? Yes. ICBMs? No. Missiles capable of carrying one of their nukes? Not really. They could hit Japan or SK if they were lucky, but not likely with a nuke as their nukes are freaking huge (like WWII huge...).

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Japan HAS a military. Or at least a navy.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cocain

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps they shouldn't work for a company that so blatantly ignores security & the consequences thereof.

Why do you think they were picked? If you think it's just for the movie, you weren't paying attention last week.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Marginal Coward]

Whew! It's nice to hear that they can only hit nearby countries with nuclear weapons. Those of us on other continents can breathe easy now. ;-)

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Moof123]

Very few individuals, and only a few small to medium business have the resources to fully protect themselves and still carry on business against a state level attack. Unreported zero-day bugs can be horded for use in a major incursion of the biggest players.

Pretty much you need to have small air-gapped networks for work on any great sensitivity to have a fighting chance. It is pretty fricking hard to do much of anything of value under those circumstances.

The upshot is that, as a world, we need to reign this crap in. We need agreed on guidelines for a minimum of care from companies to protect data, and rigorous prosecution of those responsible for breaches. Of course, we used to say similar things about torture, and look where we are now...

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[ColdWetDog]

Japan HAS a military. Or at least a navy.

History. It's an interesting concept.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[ShaunC]

While North Korea is hardly a beacon of consumerism, there are plenty of TVs and DVD players in the country. It's not even forbidden to own them. While it's illegal to modify them to receive anything other than state-sponsored broadcasts, in some areas homes will even have two TVs, one official (for receiving propaganda) and one bootleg (to pick up South Korean broadcasts). DVD smuggling is common. If DVDs came raining down from the heavens, especially closer to the border regions, the people would be able to use them.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Shakrai]

The real problem is it showed the fragility of American media companies (movie chains) to blackmail and exposes a problem with freedom of speech. When an outside power can effect freedom of speech to this extent, it becomes a serious issue.

This has already happened, sadly.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Shakrai]

but not likely with a nuke as their nukes are freaking huge (like WWII huge...).

Do we actually have evidence of that or are you just making assumptions? North Korea is known to have exchanged nuclear technology with Pakistan and Pakistan does have warheads small enough to be mounted to missiles.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

REIN!

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Incorrect, their networks have interconnections in multiple locations around the world; there are some issues with overlapping IP space in use, but they nat.src and nat.dst to overcome that.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or cunt.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[h4ck7h3p14n37]

That doesn't excuse them in any way, shape, or form really. The PSN breach was big news and anyone with half a head on their head would pay attention and then take a look around their own office to shore things up.

You've never worked for a large corporation, have you?

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Coren22]

I would love to see the missile that could carry their Fat Boy style 5000lb or so nuclear weapons...though I guess they could drive a truck in with that...though it would be easy to stop...

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Coren22]

I read it somewhere, but looking at a few Google searches comes up with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

The yield is tiny compared to anyone's nukes.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Shakrai]

The yield doesn't have anything to do with how deliverable the weapon(s) are. You said that North Korea's nukes are WW2 sized in a comment about missile technology. I'm curious what you based on that assumption on? Or perhaps you were speaking about yield all along, rather than deliverablity, though in that instance I'd wonder why it came up in a discussion about missiles. In any case, a 7kt weapon is enough to kill tens of thousands of people in an urban area. Even a fizzle might manage to do that, via prompt radiation. North Korea's nukes can't be casually dismissed....

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Coren22]

According to this BBC article, the most recent (2013) test was claimed to have miniaturized the warhead to make it small enough to put on a missile, but prior to that, they were known to be large weapons:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-...

As I said, I read it somewhere that their weapons were large, but I am still unable to find the article I read.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

In this case though we have a threat of violence and terror on top of the simpler criminal matter. These guys are not threatening to just empty a few bank accounts and embarrass some more celebrities. They have moved from the realm of nuisance crimes to violent crimes and the state definitely has an interest preserving public safety.

I am finding the fact that just a couple of days ago Tom Coburn blocked the extension of the Federal terrorism insurance program to be very coincidental.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard similar - about the physical size of their weapons, not the yield - about 10 years ago. I am not a keen watcher of the DPRK so I can't say if they've improved them since.

But what I do know is that it is basically moot. They don't need nukes to kill hundreds of thousands of people in Seoul since it is practically on the border between the two countries. And it really doesn't matter what city they bomb, any city is just as good as a hostage for their purposes.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "Chief", but yours means the same.

Re:I don't see the big deal here.

[david_thornley]

Japan has Self-Defense Forces. Not armed forces. Really. It says so on the little sticker on the missile launcher.

That's how the legalities work, anyway.

Of course they do

[silviuc]

> It is not known how the US government has determined that North Korea is the culprit

Of course it's known. The same way they established that Iraq had chemical weapons. The method is known as "because we say so".

Re:Of course they do

[Anonymous Coward]

Iraq did have chemical weapons, the only one disputing that I guess is you. Ask the 80,000 dead Kurds what they died of and they would tell you it was chemical weapons that Sadam used on them.

Re: Of course they do

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the most sensible comment on this board. If the US automatically blames countries like Iran, Russia, Venezuela, Syria, or North Korea, then you know with 100% certainty that the US has an agenda.

Re:Of course they do

[Anonymous Coward]

Ask Saddam where he got them from.

Hint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...–Iraq_war#Chemical_and_biological_exports

U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.

What to do?

[AndyKron]

So what are we going to do about it? Blast AC/DC over the load speakers at them? Send over some message balloons?

Re:What to do?

[will_die]

I'll go with balloons http://www.google.com/url?sa=t...

Re:What to do?

[AndyKron]

Awesome!

Re:What to do?

[Motard]

Sony should upload "the Interview" to torrent servers and distribute it for free.

And you should give me your car.

Re:What to do?

[Anonymous Coward]

How many people in North Korea have access to a DVD player?

Re:What to do?

[Rakarra]

How many people in North Korea have access to a DVD player?

We should sent in Seal Team Six paratroopers in... to do a theater reenactment.

Speaking off the record

[mwvdlee]

Speaking off the record

Let me fix that for you...

Obviously speaking on the record, but with sufficient disclaimers to not be held legally accountable according to literal interpretation of the law

Re:Speaking off the record

[AmiMoJo]

We can't take any US intelligence or claims seriously any more. WMD? Torture? Rendition? Sorry bro, you lied too many times.

Re:Speaking off the record

[amiga3D]

That's right, put your faith in the North Korean government. Idiot.

Re:Speaking off the record

[Anonymous Coward]

That person never said they trusted North Korea. For me I don't trust either one as far as I can throw an elephant. North Korea for obvious reasons and US intelligence for lying about torturing people.

Re:Speaking off the record

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you always have difficulty with reading comprehension?
Please outline where they stated they trust north Korea?

Not sure why you felt a need to call them an idiot.

Re:Speaking off the record

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a rather large strawman you built all by yourself.

Perhaps so you had someone at your intelligence level to talk to.

Re:Speaking off the record

[The Grim Reefer]

We can't take any US intelligence or claims seriously any more. WMD? Torture? Rendition? Sorry bro, you lied too many times.

Sorry, there were WMD found in Iraq. Nobody wanted to acknowledge it as it was the US and EU that sent them there originally. Regardless, the chemical weapons were there.

I don't condone torture, however most of what I've read in the recently released report barely qualifies. And no one seems to take into account the panic of the times. This feigned outrage by the people in congress over this is appalling. They knew exactly what was going on and approved it at the time. Additionally, most US special forces training programs subject our soldiers to as much or more physical and psychological discomfort than what I've seen described as torture. Yelling and threatening someones family is now considered torture?

Where's your outrage over the treatment of prisoners in Mexican prisons? Caning in Thailand?, Stoning in middle eastern countries? How about the victims of the 9-11 attacks? What about the agony that their family members went through? At that time, two planes had successfully brought down the world trade center towers, one crashed into the pentagon, and another in a field in Pennsylvania. Don't forget the Anthrax letters that were being mailed too. While they weren't related, it was unknown at the time. It seemed like one hell of a coordinated attack against the US. And it was painfully obvious no one was prepared for it.

Extraordinary Rendition required more than just the US.54 countries were involved. Spain, Portugal, Germany, UK, Canada, Australia, Sweden, Island, Finland, Denmark, etc. were among those countries involved.

Sorry bro, we've been lied to by damn near every country's government on the planet at this point.

Re:Speaking off the record

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true. The US and UK claimed new chemical weapons were being made in secret bases. Not that there was a stash of old crap knocking around in the desert.

Re:Speaking off the record

[sexconker]

This.
I'd like to see some actual evidence that NK was behind this, and not evidence put forth by Sony or the US government.
Until then I'll believe any the following are more likely scenarios.

Some hacker group unaffiliated with any government just wanted to fuck Sony.
Some Sony employees just wanted to fuck Sony.
The US government wanted to false flag North Korea. The timing of this (and the Cuba fiasco) is hilariously convenient - Congress just approved the ridiculous budget, there are no more elections for Obama to worry about, and Congress is out of session (AKA taking a well-undeserved vacation after shitting up the country as usual).

Regardless of how it happened, the US government will use it as the digital 9-11.
There will be more spying, less freedom, more cyber "crimes" invented to put more citizens in jail, and hey, let's go ahead and invade North Korea. Defense contracts for 2015-2030 need a boost.

Re:Speaking off the record

[Anonymous Coward]

They claimed that to distract from the huge piles of US chemical weapons already there.

Also, they never got any actual proof of new chemical weapons being made.

Re:Speaking off the record

[Anonymous Coward]

> Sorry bro, we've been lied to by damn near every country's government on the planet at this point.

We don't vote for those other governments we don't pay them taxes, they are not answerable to you and me.
Our government is our responsibility, don't even think that "everybody does it" is an acceptable defense.
You must have not been paying attention when your mother asked if you if you'd jump off a bridge just because all your friends did.

Re:Speaking off the record

[Critical Facilities]

I agree with you. It's amazing how many people are running with the story that it was North Korea. Utter stupidity.

An excellent breakdown of the "breach".

FBI saying that North Korea was not involved

How do we know?

[DoofusOfDeath]

Why should we believe anything the "senior intelligence officials" tell us? They have a profound record of lying.

Re:How do we know?

[dfenstrate]

Why should we believe anything the "senior intelligence officials" tell us? They have a profound record of lying.

Occam's Razor. It's pretty clear to the rest of us that a hero-worshiping despotic regime like North Korea might lash out against a company- or movie theaters- making a comedy about killing their national hero/despot.

That leads to my question- are you posting from Pyongyang?

Re:How do we know?

[DoofusOfDeath]

That leads to my question- are you posting from Pyongyang?

Yes, yes I am. After spending years scouring the Internet, my small team of l88t Haxors realized that only one account, on one site, had the propaganda value we needed. It was DoofusOfDeath@slashdot.org. We're sure to get a second serving of rice balls for this exploit! Long live the god Kim Jung Un!

Re:How do we know?

[Anonymous Coward]

So the people in North Korea have access to the media to know about this movie and the internet access to wage these attacks? That doesn't sound like the North Korea I've ever heard of.

Also If you were the leader of North Korea wouldn't you go out of your way to make sure no one saw this movie to maintain the illusion of grandeur? And why didn't they do anything in response to Team America?

IMO, true or not, blaming North Korea makes Sony look like a victim of a big bad government which they will use in all the civil suits that are starting against them based on the leaked information.

Re:How do we know?

[Anonymous Coward]

Occam's Razor does not apply in political situations. This could very very very easily be the work of a foreign or domestic entity who would profit greatly from a war with North Korea. It is ridiculously easy to plant digital "forensic" evidence which implicates someone else.

Re:How do we know?

[Rakarra]

So the people in North Korea have access to the media to know about this movie and the internet access to wage these attacks? That doesn't sound like the North Korea I've ever heard of.

The upper levels of the NK government have access to the Internet; they always have. The state certainly has Internet ties. North Korea is poor and disconnected, yes... that is, the citizens of North Korea are. The elites, they most certainly are not. Keeping an entire populace THAT in the dark, and keeping the rest of the world in the dark about the country, requires some sophistication.

This is also why if a sophisticated hacking attempt came from North Korea, it would have to be government-sponsored. They're the only ones with access. Of course the DPRK employs hackers. They would be incredibly stupid not to.

Also If you were the leader of North Korea wouldn't you go out of your way to make sure no one saw this movie to maintain the illusion of grandeur?

That's what they were doing. The hacking group made all sorts of threats against Sony employees, their families, and any theaters that chose to show the movie. Of course, they don't have any power to back up those threats, but that sort of thing isn't uncommon from DKPR.

And why didn't they do anything in response to Team America?

Well, they did try to get the film banned in some countries they had relations with. But it was a different despot. Honestly, Kim Jong-Il seemed like he was comfortable in his role. Sure, he would do crazy shit, like kidnapping filmmakers so they would make movies about him, to say nothing of the hideous saber-rattling North Korea would periodically do to get attention and show they were still relevant on the global stage. Kim Jong-Un, through various government actions, has shown that he has something to prove. He doesn't want to be seen as the lesser son. He was willing to publicly execute his loyal uncle just to make a statement about his own power.

Also, the Interview is a worse offender in North Korean government eyes. Sure, Team America showed Kim Jong-Il as an evil genius. However, the Interview goes much further in that it depicts, after the interview, Kim Jong-Un being ridiculed by the people of North Korea. It depicts the ability of western media to cause a revolution in the country resulting in the overthrow of the ruling power structure. If you believe the real power is held by the military and Kim Jong-Un is a figurehead, The Interview is far worse than Team America, and its creation would be a threat to its rulers. Depict the ruler of North Korea as an evil puppet-master? That's not great, but it's preferable to depicting him as the emperor who wore no clothes.

Finally, Team America was a 2004 movie. What was the state of North Korea's Internet connections back then? Did it even have any hackers? Would it have been able to do anything to Sony Pictures ten years ago? In 2014, we're already much more connected than we were back then, though it's not like 1994, when mostly educational institutions were online. Keep in mind, no violence has been done so far. No one blew up or shot up a theater. DPKR didn't fire any missiles. No one died or even got roughed up. Everything that has happened so far is because a guy or some guys had a computer and an Internet connection.

Before the Internet became ubiquitous, DPKR wouldn't even have been able to do this. Having everyone and everything connected puts us all on an equal playing field, and it makes us all close neighbors.

Makes Sense

[gunner_von_diamond]

That's why they threatened any movie theaters who were planning on showing "The Interview"

Re:Makes Sense

[HiThere]

Threats are cheap. Is there even any evidence they come from the same source as the original hack? (Mind you, I have no idea who did it, and don't believe anything the government says anymore unless they have verifyable evidence to prove it.)

Now once someone *acts* on one of those threats, then there will be more belief that it was done with someone with either excessive zeal or lots of backing. Right now even that's lacking. Threats on the internet are so common that they've *got* to be ignored, even though that's frequently difficult.

It's a media company.

[Anonymous Coward]

First, by media company's accounting standard (GAMSB), this hack cost the USA and Sony many trillions of dollars. Why we are not all running around naked and in the dark is because of the quick thinking of the FBI and other Feds to protect us from this horrendous crime against humanity.

I am so glad they did because we all know that hacks against media companies are the true threats to the security and freedom of the USA and NOT violent bombings, attacks on our interests in other countries, and attacks on our infrastructure; but attacks on foreign controlled companies that distribute shitty stoner movies.

Why Seth Rogen himself, expresssing his deep deep remorse over this said, "Duuuuude!"

I for one am appalled at your lack and inability to see the significance of this attack and the fine fine work that our government is doing to protect the assets and IP of foreign corporations at the expense of our own safety and security.

You un-American scum!

Pathetic...

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets show the WHOLE WORLD... How big of cowards we are.... That Puny Ass NK can do this...
Utterly Pathetic America.... I am Ashamed to be from here today.

Re: Pathetic...

[Anonymous Coward]

this doesn't have anything to do with America. This is Sony by itself getting spanked - and they kinda earned this

Re:Pathetic...

[Anonymous Coward]

How big of cowards we are....

Says the AC

no skills

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are the facts? They won't say for sure when they know China hacked gov systems... Yet now they say we have some how lost our first "cyber war" over anonymous hacker threats over a fake movie. Where are the skills in this, I'm starting to think the only cyber warfare skills we have are paying others to put backdoors in everything. no skills.

and pray tell

[Anonymous Coward]

why I should I believe murkin intelligence who are known liars?

Feelless Reader reaps Streisand Effect

[retroworks]

Let the Meme Galleries grow into movie punchlines! http://www.complex.com/pop-cul...

Re:Feelless Reader reaps Streisand Effect

[Anonymous Coward]

I am just waiting for Sony to have a "Rocky" moment, grow a pair, and release this turkey after all. They'll make bazillions.

An alternative is....

[SternisheFan]

Instead of "The Interview", a theater in Texas has decided to show "Team America" instead....

http://www.hollywoodreporter.c...

Re:An alternative is....

[PopeRatzo]

Instead of "The Interview", a theater in Texas has decided to show "Team America" instead....

Except in Texas they think Team America World Police is a documentary.

Re:An alternative is....

[Anonymous Coward]

it pretty much is sadly

Re:An alternative is....

[SternisheFan]

+1 Funny, if it weren't so true. ;^}

Any proof?

[mnt]

Claiming is not proofing.

Too bad the hackers that previously hacked the german GEMA did not download and leak everything they found. This company needs to die.

Sad to say

[PopeRatzo]

I don't know what to believe. On one hand, we have Sony. On the other, North Korea. Finally, the FBI.

Shit, they're probably all lying their asses off.

Re:Sad to say

[Anonymous Coward]

What reason could North Korea possible have to deny hacking Sony if they did it?

Re:Sad to say

[PopeRatzo]

I know, but.. Sony, North Korea and the FBI. Not exactly a triumvirate of trust.

Re:Sad to say

[amiga3D]

When they lie every time they open their mouth it gets to be a habit. After a while it's just standard operating procedure.

Re:Sad to say

[SternisheFan]

What reason could North Korea possible have to deny hacking Sony if they did it?

To keep the Sony bombs away?

It could've been the NSA, we don't know for sure.

Re:Sad to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Because threatening terrorist attacks against places on American soil is an act of war.

Re:Sad to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up, it is not. And you sound like an idiotic middle schooler making a statement like that.

In 1987, NK blew up a Korean Air lines plane with 115 people aboard.

You know what we did? We put them on a list.

10 years later, we gave them $5BILLION to stop their nuclear program. They probably laughed long and hard about that one.

Re:Sad to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of Garak on DS9:

Bashir [after telling the story of the boy who cried wolf]: "The moral is, if you keep lying, people will stop believing you, even when you tell the truth."
Garak: Is that the moral?
Bashit: Yes, what else could it be?
Garak: Never tell the same lie twice.

Are getting ready to bomb them?

[pesho]

Ah, the unsubstantiated assertions ... The pile of bad links to unrelated hacks by Iran, Russia and China ... Where have I seen that before? Wasn't that a part of preparing the public opinion to some other war? BTW, why isn't the fact that Sony's IT security was simply laughable not front page in NYT? They even have their CIO talking obvious nonsense on in an interview titled Your guide to good enough compliance. And we are not talking any sophisticated stuff here. Just basic things like changing you password and not keeping a file titled "passwords" on your hard rive.

Sooner or Later ...

[BoRegardless]

Someone is going to have to dismantle the Pandora's box that is the DPRK.

S. Korea and the US have been putting it off for decades and China is finally getting PO'd and worried a N. Korea fall will result in millions crossing their border instantly looking for food.

It couldn't cost as much as Afganistan.

Re:Sooner or Later ...

[retroworks]

"It couldn't cost as much as Afganistan."

...Until they nuke Samsung or Hyundai or Seoul or Incheon. They don't really need an intercontinental rocket to mess the world economy up. And while this will be hugely unpopular (strapping my brass balls on for the mod-downs), this was actually the neo-con case for taking Saddam Hussein out, that he would EVENTUALLY be in the position that Kim Jong-un is in, with just enough WMD to threaten Saudi Arabia and thus the world economy. I'm not defending how it turned out, leading to ISIS etc, but for the record the neocons made a rational case that once a despot invades (Kuwait, Sony HQ), that they establish their willingness to use whatever weapon they find in the future. Iran incidentally still may pass that test, I don't know. India and Pakistan do (have weapons but little evidence of irrational Putin-esque border challenges).

Re:Sooner or Later ...

[lq_x_pl]

Unfortunately, that someone will also have to deal with a very angry China.
China may be frustrated with the DPRK, but by-and-large, China is able to control the stability of most of the entire pacific rim region by proxy through North Korea.
Someone else already mentioned the inevitable razing of Seoul that will occur when the Korean war goes hot again. The situation is a mess, and the only resolution that won't result in the ROK getting toasted is a slow decaying collapse in the North. :-(

Re:Sooner or Later ...

[HiThere]

Don't worry. When the governments keep changing eventually you get a real winner at the head. I'm still expecting India and Pakistan, or some other pair of "friendly neighbors" to put the nuclear autumn model to the test. Unless something worse happens first. Hopefully, however, not this decade.

Dubious because facts

[Jesrad]

Marc Rogers disagrees strongly, and poitns at a long list of evidence that make it much more likely that it was a vengeful inside-job badly disguised into a Nork attack for unrelated publicity added-value:
- elements of language that do not fit north-korean lingo
- hardcoded filepaths indicating insider knowledge
- social-network savvyness unlike anything the DPRK ever did
- no mention of The Interview movie until after the possible tie with DPRK was suggested ... and more.

Re:Dubious because facts

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, the badly translated Korean letter proves it.

Re:Dubious because facts

[OzPeter]

One thing mentioned in Marc Rogers article that I am also surpassed at is how do you miss that much data flying out of your network?

A couple of years ago I was a customer site and had to download and install some updates onto an HMI system. Less than 5 minutes after starting this, my client's IT people had connected to the system in question and were poking around trying see why that device had suddenly started consuming network resources. Their attempts to shut it down were annoying to me, but at least they were on the ball when it came to knowing what was normal and what was not normal on their network.

Re:Dubious because facts

[OzPeter]

Damned auto correct. Surprised.

Re:Dubious because facts

[Epell]

To top it, I really just don't see what DPRK has to gain from all this.
It's a bit too much to go just to get a movie off the screen.
Besides, the hack didn't get the movie off the theater, it was the ambiguous warning on pastebin (which really, anybody could do).

Re:Dubious because facts

[Xest]

Honestly, Marc Rogers' analysis is fucking awful. It's entirely speculation - it's no different to your average Slashdot post where someone is just stating their opinion and passing it off as fact. Examples:

"1. The broken English looks deliberately bad and doesnâ(TM)t exhibit any of the classic comprehension mistakes you actually expect to see in âoeKonglishâ. i.e it reads to me like an English speaker pretending to be bad at writing English."

Really? Please expand on that. Please give examples. To me it looks like just about every other piece of broken English I've seen online. Simply declare it not such without explaining why is not an argument.

"2. The fact that the code was written on a PC with Korean locale & language actually makes it less likely to be North Korea. Not least because they donâ(TM)t speak traditional âoeKoreanâ in North Korea, they speak their own dialect and traditional Korean is forbidden."

Interesting, but hardly stone cold evidence. If it was a North Korean spy that's trained in South Korean because they were behind the past hacks on South Korea then they may find that this is the easiest configuration for them. Is the North Korean dialect even a configuration option? If not then what else could they use? English? I'd guess not given how broken their English is.

"3. Itâ(TM)s clear from the hard-coded paths and passwords in the malware that whoever wrote it had extensive knowledge of Sonyâ(TM)s internal architecture and access to key passwords. While itâ(TM)s plausible that an attacker could have built up this knowledge over time and then used it to make the malware, Occamâ(TM)s razor suggests the simpler explanation of an insider. It also fits with the pure revenge tact that this started out as."

Again, entirely just speculation, poor use of Occam's razor. Occam's razor doesn't suggest it was an insider out to get Sony any more than it suggests the attackers simply spent a bit of time surveilling their target before following through with the hack. This argument again adds nothing.

"4. Whoever did this is in it for revenge. The info and access they had could have easily been used to cash out, yet, instead, they are making every effort to burn Sony down."

Isn't this an argument FOR it being North Korea rather than against given that North Korea has vocally made it clear that they're unhappy with Sony over the film? If anything this is an argument in favour of it being North Korea.

"5. The attackers only latched onto âoeThe Interviewâ after the media did â" the film was never mentioned by GOP right at the start of their campaign."

Sure and North Korea spent a few days figuring out whether to admit responsibility or not rather than outright denying it. It's now becoming the defining point of their campaign which seemed to be something North Korea was keen on - if it was the internal employee theory then why has Rogers' now changed his mind about maximising damage? Simply making Sony cancel a $42million film is small fry damage - an inside job would focus on continuing to be far more damaging than that. But to follow on this same point:

"After all, if everyone believes itâ(TM)s a nation state, then the criminal investigation will likely die."

What? Why? The FBI will just give up if it's thought to be a nation state? No, on the contrary it'll be escalated to the CIA and NSA. This point doesn't even make sense.

"6. Whoever is doing this is VERY net and social media savvy. That, and the sophistication of the operation, do not match with the profile of DPRK up until now."

Um, you mean they can use Twitter? So can half the child population of this world. Unless there's a suggestion that North Koreans are inferior people with IQ's less than your average child and who couldn't possibly look at what's worked for other succesful hacker groups like anonymous then this point is monumentally stupid.

"7. Finally, blaming North Korea is the easy way

Re:Dubious because facts

[Xest]

"It's a bit too much to go just to get a movie off the screen."

This is the country that's detonated nuclear bombs, sunk warships with torpedos, and fired artillery barrages at it's neighbours civilian villages, and leaked lists of thousands of civilian bank customers details just because it hasn't been given enough attention for a week like a petulent little child.

Nothing is a bit much for North Korea, if the Kim dynasty's fragile little egos are upset then you can expect an extreme reaction. This is the fat little man-child who had his own uncle executed - the guy is basically a living incarnation of Eric Cartman.

Re:Dubious because facts

[DarthVain]

Sony, doesn't exactly have a stellar network security record either. This very well could be any hacker group looking for LULZ. I mean all this about the movie and North Korea, particularly if it eventually comes out to BS is pretty funny (and sounds like a movie itself). As to the threats, that well could be copycats etc... and people overreacting to some 12 year old's idle threats...

Re:Dubious because facts

[DarkOx]

That was my reaction as well a week ago when the new broke. I actually heard on the NBC Nightly news first and the moment Williams said TB of data; the first thought I had was how do you ex-filtrate that much info without it being noticed by the NOC team?

  The only think I can think of is that largish transfers are probably very common for them as they push media assets out to contractors etc. Still you wonder why are they not MTIMing everything in what is essentially an all IP business and why can't their IPS/IDS system tell the difference between a 2TB of raw YUV video and their HR database?

Re:Dubious because facts

[HiThere]

OK, if they'd thought of it they'd have wanted to do it. That's hardly proof they did it.

Re:Dubious because facts

[Anonymous Coward]

What proof do we have that they actually took 100TB and weren't just exaggerating for effect?

Re:Dubious because facts

[Epell]

I think you are underestimating North Korean regime.
It is a bit old fashioned politics but Kim Jong Un is playing by the books when it comes to the old Asian political advise.

The whole country relies on the control of the people. If people thinks the country can be toppled, it will be. The government has pretty tight control on the communication with outside world, so they have that covered (although I hear that South Korea Drama, music, etc. circulates in the black market in DPRK these days).
If they don't know what is on the outside, the next thing to make sure is to not make the government be seen as weak. This is especially true at times like these with rather recent power change - From Kim Jong Il to his son.
It is a smart move for Jong Un to execute any possible dissenters or somebody who could gather enough support to overthrow his rule, potentially his uncle. Even if the uncle has no desire to overthrow the government, it is probably a good idea to make him a scapegoat and discourage any other who may think of such plan (ruthless, I know, but such thing is common in Chinese/Korean royal history).

As for some Americans being sent to work camp, it is to show to its people (and outside missionaries) that communication with outside will be strictly forbidden. DPRK is showing (not telling) that if you get caught, there will be severe consequences. There is no doubt secret Christian missionaries to North Korea has taken a step back for now until strong anti-missionary policy calms down a bit.

As for missile tests, hostile interaction with neighbors, it is probably used as a propaganda to its own people, occasional reminder of the military strength - to control the people, either through fear or through nationalistic pride.

Kim Jong Un is not a person who has been stuck in his country with no clue how world operates. I do not think he or his staffs are stupid people. They do things to accomplish their goal: maintain power. I believe all their stunts are calculated moves to keep his people in line. Sometimes they piss off neighbors and U.S., but they never do too much to actually escalate things to war. They can get away with that because well, they don't care if Japan publicly denounce them, at all.

Revenge?

[Anonymous Coward]

So is this an attack in revenge for the US one, and was that one actually in revenge for Kim Jon whatsisname saying something rude about Mrs Clinton's choice of handbag and Mrs Obama has now declared it an official thing because of a more recent sly dig at her forgetting to take the price label off one of her shoes?

This is important stuff, we have to know! And whether or not the strip on the flag is crimson or vermillion because it obviously can't be scarlet as that would just be so wrong.

The implications could be dire

[rainer_d]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/...

We've seen the US go to war from much less "evidence". Can you say "WMD in Iraq"?

Re:The implications could be dire

[halivar]

What??? No, that's silly. The US is not going to war because they can't watch a Seth Rogan movie. The Hobbit? Maybe. Star Wars, definitely. But not this.

Re:The implications could be dire

[sociocapitalist]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/...

We've seen the US go to war from much less "evidence". Can you say "WMD in Iraq"?

Iraq of course being a more profitable target, not stuck right up against China and not having as a leader 'The one Daddy let get away'.

Re:The implications could be dire

[Anonymous Coward]

We didn't need evidence. We knew that there were WMDs in Iraq.

Because we sold/gave them to Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...–Iraq_war#Chemical_and_biological_exports

U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.

Re:The implications could be dire

[fustakrakich]

For even less evidence can you say 'Afghanistan'? Nothing was ever proven there either. It was all one sided hearsay. More yellow journalism and government lies, partying like was 1898. I'm wearing asbestos. so go nuts!

Between the lines

[cloud.pt]

What should be seen from these blaming statements is one of two inevitable conclusions:

• - either US is trying to set up North Korea's public opinion in order to excuse some new (military or cyber-) incursion to them, or...
• - they are actually making honest statements, in which case China is surely helping these cyber-attacks. It should be obvious that North Korea doesn't have the IT background necessary for such attacks... Unless Kim Jong-Un took some hardcore CS crash-course back in his Switzerland days.

In any case, Korea is deepening its role of battleground in the economical and social proxy-war between China and the US. This is nothing more than a turn of that chess game, but this time I'm pretty sure I heard "check" from the "red" side...

Re:Between the lines

[cloud.pt]

A joke for a joke heh ^_^. In any case, I doubt there are any black hat (open) courses anywhere across the globe, and even white-hat cyber-security courses won't teach you 1% of what you need for such an attack. They do provide guidelines though.

What you need to succeed in such attacks is: open-minded, out of the box thinking; access to computers; and some very open access to the webs deepest corners. All of this has to be set up in line with the emancipation of IT abilities, which is usually around teenage-hood to its end around 20-24, or else there's no aptitude inception for it to become any useful. All of the above boxes do NOT tick for 99.99% of the NK population (that's like everyone but the top 10 NK government executives, including KJU).

So unless NK government started breeding hackers before Y2K (which most developed countries didn't, and underdeveloped countries were still thinking plutonium enrichment back then), and SHA-2 is no slouch, so this was certainly not a solo-NK attack. This has Beijing written all over.

Sony's hack is their problem. Threats, though....

[dfenstrate]

I don't really give a hoot about Sony getting hacked. What I do care about is Americans being threatened for lawful activity by agents of a foreign government. (That is, 9/11 style attacks for screening The Interview.) That threat made what was Sony's problem into a national issue that our government ought to deal with. Unfortunately I don't see much chance of the D.C. set showing any spine or defending any principles.

Are You Joking?

[eldavojohn]

> It is not known how the US government has determined that North Korea is the culprit

Of course it's known. The same way they established that Iraq had chemical weapons. The method is known as "because we say so".

Are you joking? I thought it was well established that there were chemical weapons in Iraq we just only found weapons designed by us, built by Europeans in factories in Iraq. And therefore the US didn't trumpet their achievements. In the case of Iraqi chemical weapons, the US established that Iraq had chemical weapons not because they said so but because Western countries had all the receipts.

Re:Are You Joking?

[Hydian]

But that wasn't the claim. The claim was that Iraq had a program and was building new weapons. They claimed that Iraq was dodging the UN weapon inspectors by giving them the US made munitions and keeping their new program in trailer based mobile facilities. No evidence to back up any of those claims was ever found. As far as I know, every chemical weapon that has been found in Iraq has been accounted for under the US sales program.

Re:Are You Joking?

[digsbo]

I have come to the same conclusion reading what's been made publicly available. What's harder to prove is that Wolfowitz, Cheyney and co. purposefully deceived the UN, et. al.

Re:Are You Joking?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't believe that's accurate. No stockpiles, old or new, were found.

Re:Are You Joking?

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I know, every chemical weapon that has been found in Iraq has been accounted for under the US sales program.

Which is why we tried to destroy every one of them. And most of the country.

And created a cover story about them having a separate program. Saddam never saw that coming.

Re:Are You Joking?

[s.petry]

Maybe you are too young to remember the "Mobile Chemical Weapons Labs" that were reportedly driving around mad scientists who were allegedly creating nerve agent while in a moving truck. We had "pickshures" and everything on CNN, though they strangely looked like water tankers and regular old semi tracker/trailers that all military units have.

Re:Are You Joking?

[ColdWetDog]

They were actually mobile kitchens, and, given the rather poor nutritional status of the Iraqi military, it is not unreasonable to assume they represented WMDs.

Re:Are You Joking?

[s.petry]

There were some journalists in Iraq shortly after the invasion. Some of the alleged "Iraq burried their mobile WMD labs" were old oil tankers, some were old water trucks, and as you stated many were mobile kitchens still driving around. What we call a "roach coach".

That people continue to believe everything some TV station tells them in regards to "terrorism" and "war" is really quite sad. The last is not targeted at you obviously (or at least I hope it's obvious).

Re:Are You Joking?

[Cardoor]

i think the original poster simply erred by referencing chemical and opposed to nuclear weapons. in any case, why anyone would believe anything lying liars say is beyond me.

Re:Are You Joking?

[HiThere]

They didn't purposely deceive people, because they didn't care whether it was true or not. If that had known their claims were false, that would have been purposeful deception. However they didn't care whether the claims were true or false, but only that they were useful That's probably a bit worse than intentional deception.

Re:Are You Joking?

[Kittenman]

They were actually mobile kitchens, and, given the rather poor nutritional status of the Iraqi military, it is not unreasonable to assume they represented WMDs.

Somebody has to say it .. depends on what they were cooking. A badly-made pilaf with some off-colour meat, and that's a division out of circulation while they run to the latrines.

Re:Are You Joking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Listening to Cheney - both watching the Errol Morris interview and seeing his defense of torture over this past weekend - I believe he is the ultimate "ends justify the means" guy. Too bad he's also one of those guys who think the USA is so weak that every boogeyman is an existential threat.

Re:Are You Joking?

[Rakarra]

The claim was that Iraq had a program and was building new weapons.

Hell, the claim made publicly to the world was that Iraq had a nuclear weapons program and had acquired nuclear material and was acquiring more.
Poor Colin Powell. A promising future destroyed by being an active part of an insane administration.

Re:Are You Joking?

[cwsumner]

But that wasn't the claim. The claim was that Iraq had a program and was building new weapons. They claimed that Iraq was dodging the UN weapon inspectors by giving them the US made munitions and keeping their new program in trailer based mobile facilities. ...

There was at least one of those "trailer based mobile facilities." found later, I saw photos of it. I think there were also others.
They were not operable at the time they were found, but I would not expect them to be.

And don't forget that Irag dropped chemicals on at least one Kurd city and killed most of the people there, so the munitions actually worked.

Also, the Democrat politicians were just as convinced as the Republican politicians and the UN, it was not until later that they complained.
I was listening to both... 8-)

smuggly satisfied!

[budgenator]

While I don't support hacking into anybodies computers, I'd have to say that That after The Sony BMG CD copy protection rootkit scandal which involved a form of hacking on their part and cpyright infringement, the file sharing lawsuit against common people, the lawsuits from the artists to get a fairshare of damages Sony has won in filesharing, and the general asshattery involved in the entertainment industry, it's hard to be sympathetic to them; karma is a bitch when you are. North Korea on the other hand can only be decribed as a boil on the ass of humanity, so if it's destiny that some company would have to fall on it's sword to embarrase the sensibilities of Kim Jong-il, I'm glad that Sony volunteered.

Make fun of them as much as possible

[photonic]

Some years ago, an advertisement for a Dutch insurance company made fun of some Stalinist dictator, without mentioning North Korea by name. As far as I know, this did not cause any large-scale hacking warfare against the involved company, but Korean diplomats were not amused. Watch it here while you still can. This regime cannot be ridiculed enough, Sony should just release the whole movie for free.

Most tasteless marketing stunt in history...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is going to backfire on Sony worse than that shitty DRM move.

Go see the movie

[Pedrito]

I wasn't planning on seeing the movie, but I'm going to see it if they release it now and I think ever American who believes in free speech ought to do what they can to make this movie into a blockbuster. You don't even have to watch it if you don't want to. Just buy a ticket. How better to show that free speech will not be run off by a bunch of hackers. Or are we going to tuck tail and run? Right now it's looking like tuck tail as movie theaters are pulling it and Sony might even pull it. How pathetic.

Re:Go see the movie

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly, you are an idiot.

Not their MO

[number17]

This just isn't the way that NK has done things in the past. In the past they've been quick to take credit for any hacking they've done. It just doesn't make sense to go through all the trouble to threaten Sony to not release the movie, hack them, then not take credit for it.

Or

[carrier lost]

To quote Mike Masnick of Techdirt:

I can't help but feel that there's a kid in a basement somewhere yelling, "OMFG, I killed a movie!"

Re:Or

[neurovish]

To quote Mike Masnick of Techdirt:

I can't help but feel that there's a kid in a basement somewhere yelling, "OMFG, I killed a movie!"

...then 3 years later gets sent to Gitmo by Jeb Bush.

Re:Or

[carrier lost]

Ha!

Sounds about right...

OMFG

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that you equate not believing an entity that lies constantly, with believing the entity they're lying about, makes me weep for the future of this country. Genius.

bah

[sociocapitalist]

Where is Team America when you really need them?

Re:bah

[cavis]

Where is Team America when you really need them?

"The Alamo Drafthouse movie theater in Dallas, Texas, will be showing Team America: World Police in place of The Interview on Dec. 27 at 7 p.m." http://www.hollywoodreporter.c...

Re:bah

[Anonymous Coward]

Fun story, team america, world police is the only movie I saw with a lady where she walked out midway. I stayed to finish it. Turned out to be the correct decision in that case...

Re:bah

[HiThere]

Which?

Me too! (was Re:What to do?)

[Anonymous Coward]

Now if some "hacker" has "leaked" the the DVD as pirate booty, or will, I'll burn some copies to send to Mr. Hak for North Korean distribution.

"Call yourself a hacker..."

[Anonymous Coward]

"... get preventively tac-nuked".

Thank you, bogeyman mentioning breathless media and computer security industrie s'kiddies.

Why not...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just send Rogen and Franco, or maybe Rodman, to "interview" Kim Jong-un?

Nah...why kill off a cash cow? We made that mistake with Gaddafi.

really?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't say? I thought it was Osama Bin Laden.

Hypothetically...

[captnjohnny1618]

Pure cyber war would be fascinating. If we could leave meat-space war out of it, all-out cyber attacks would be wild. And then they'd be celebrate in the news as a "blow to the enemy." People might actually learn something about computers, the private security sector would explode, economically it'd probably do wonders to get people to trend to STEM fields. I'd guess we would see crazy developments in cryptography too. And fucking Sony might learn to encrypt their data. We keep asking what to do to get more kids interested in tech... If I didn't think someone would be a dick and lob a hand grenade onto someone's "soil" and cause World War III, I'd almost hope that cyber war would happen just to see the side effects.

Between the lines

[Anonymous Coward]

In swiss hardcore CS crash-courses you learn how to set group policies in AD, if that exists, I did not listen carefully. Maybe you even learn how to implement bubblesort.

Re:Sony's hack is their problem. Threats, though..

[Anonymous Coward]

" being threatened for lawful activity by agents of a foreign government" The phrase enemy combatants between the age 15 and under 65 ring a bell?

SONY , DEBUT FILM PLEASE

[Anonymous Coward]

SONY should have moved ahead with the movie debut, and EVERY good American should have gone to see it to show North Korea that they can not bully Americans and sensor our art and entertainment ! What is the message being sent now ?.... that foreign countries can sensor our entertainment industry, even when our own government can't !

Jerico DeAngelo
OsiriStar Records
www.OsiriStar.com
Songwriter / Producer

*sigh* Here we go again!

[fustakrakich]

Just like with Afghanistan, somebody has an itchy trigger finger..

Cuba

[ThatsNotPudding]

I wonder if the Norks knew about the on-going US / Cuba negotiations, with the US side-objective of removing one more semi-allied state from their nearly empty ranks.

Relatedly, I'm pleased that this mostly disappointing lame-duck President called the GOP on their kowtowing to the grandchildren of those that fled the collapse of the immorally corrupt Mafia / CIA backed Bautista regime that made their families filthy rich. To quote a former history teacher: "The most a woman could aspire to under Bautista was to become a high-class prostitute."

Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

Hilarious. North Korea, who can only provide Internet to a tiny fraction of its population, and who has nowhere near the resources and expertise required, is being accused of this crime by the U.S. who itself conducts more espionage, cyber-operations and propaganda, and who has precisely the resources and reasons required to pull off something like this for wicked political motives. You might as well claim there was one or two Nordic language packs found somewhere, and blame it on Iceland.

PSY Op

[Anonymous Coward]

And slashdot falls for the PSY Op again