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Investigation: Apple Failing To Protect Chinese Factory Workers
mrspoonsi writes with the findings of an investigation into working conditions at a factory that makes Apple products. Poor treatment of workers in Chinese factories which make Apple products has been discovered by an undercover BBC Panorama investigation. Filming on an iPhone 6 production line showed Apple's promises to protect workers were routinely broken. It found standards on workers' hours, ID cards, dormitories, work meetings and juvenile workers were being breached at the Pegatron factories. Apple said it strongly disagreed with the programme's conclusions. Exhausted workers were filmed falling asleep on their 12-hour shifts at the Pegatron factories on the outskirts of Shanghai. One undercover reporter, working in a factory making parts for Apple computers, had to work 18 days in a row despite repeated requests for a day off. Another reporter, whose longest shift was 16 hours, said: "Every time I got back to the dormitories, I wouldn't want to move. Even if I was hungry I wouldn't want to get up to eat. I just wanted to lie down and rest. I was unable to sleep at night because of the stress."
I can still have more iPhone? The workers are there to do work. I pay.
Why is it Apple's fault or Apple's problem? First of all these are Foxconn workers. Secondly Foxconn manufactures hardware for a lot of companies, not just Apple.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Question. Why do they work people so hard instead of just hiring more people? Are these guys salaried instead of hourly? Is it about keeping down costs on training or employee benefits like dormitories they don't think they can operate without? It can't be a massive labor shortage or the employees would quit and find somewhere else to work...
From what I read the steel, coal and general chemistry industries are quite bad. Apple has actually tried to clean up with their vendor requirements.
Apple can't be there to make sure everyone is happy all the time. They're too busy putting nets under all the tall buildings. It's time for the Chinese to stand up for themselves instead of passing out and/or jumping off things when they get tired.
You have chosen to rationalize the exploitation of Chinese workers, probably using a product you or your employer couldn't afford to purchase if manufactured by someone that shared your pleasant lifestyle. Your rationalization is characterized by one or more of the following possible memes;
[_] Making iPhones in a Chinese factory is better than being a Chinese peasant
[_] iPhones/Pads would cost too much if I had to pay my fellow citizens to make them
[_] iPhones/Pads would cost too much given environmental regulations I vehemently insist on for myself
[X] All the other manufacturers are doing it too
[_] Some/Many/Most Chinese workers appreciate 70 hour weeks and breathing my aluminum dust
[X] It's not Apple, it's Foxconn
[_] It's not Apple, it's the Chinese government
[_] They should quit if they don't like it
[_] It's just capitalism at work
[_] It's just communism at work
[_] Apple's disposable workers are paid better than non-Apple disposable workers
[_] Apple's auditors didn't find any serious issues
[_] Some day the Chinese will be too wealthy to exploit
[_] Your Android is Foxconn too
[_] You're an Apple hater using Apple as a scapegoat
[_] I also work 60/80/100/120 hour weeks at my IT job
[_] Apple designers are in the US
[_] The US did the same thing to the British
[_] The US had slaves once too
[_] The US has prison labor today
[_] It's up to the Chinese to stand up to their oppressive government
[_] There are lines of willing workers outside Foxconn factories
[_] If any company were to stop the exploitation, I really think it'll be Apple
[_] Your free Linux runs on Chinese hardware too
[_] Foxconn workers think they have it great, so it's ok!
[_] Foxconn worker suicide rate is lower than Chicago's murder rate
[_] Foxconn worker suicide rate is lower than China's suicide rate
[_] We can't pollute the whole world!
[_] Half of all US households have an Apple product
[_] If we don't exploit them they'll never develop
[_] The suicide's families get the insurance money
[_] You're posting from a macbook/iphone/ipad right now
[_] There are suicide nets on American bridges
[_] Interns in the US don't get paid
[_] They don't beat the workers, apparently.
[_] Why is this news? We expect this from China.
[_] It's their country; we have no right to judge.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
I started to write this and then I canceled because you're a troll and then I got pissed and started/canceled again, but anyway, fuck you and stuff.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Apple: The great Chinese American Sock Puppet of Technology. They do this because they can, and people will still buy from them while believing the sock puppet has a life of its own. Apple still thinks it is its own "person", when in fact once they sold out to the Chinese they lost themselves and their technology to China. The American operations are not even so much gilt and lace on the emperor because in fact, the emperor has no clothes any more. Apple America can say all they want, but the Chinese will do what the Chinese want. That is because they actually walk the walk and make technology. They don't do that in America any more.
"Every time I got back to the dormitories, I wouldn't want to move. Even if I was hungry I wouldn't want to get up to eat. I just wanted to lie down and rest. I was unable to sleep at night because of the stress."
that doesn't sound that different from my years working in ops and dev in the valley :)
I work 12-16 hours all the time in the united states, wheres my fucking news article, and I work in a job that requires more robot than showing up and being a robot, I also pay for my own housing, food, and transportation.
so either man up and quit bitching or man up and quit your shithole job, its that fucking simple
12 hour factory shifts are/were common in the U.S. as well, before all the factory jobs got moved overseas.
labor movement born
what do commies do?
Hey apple, use your own products to fix this mess.
RFID fobs on workers, computers to monitor working hours, and computers to mandate rest times etc...
Mangers that over work people, SACKED!
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
What is next? Being inside sensitive clods?
1. Nazis 2. Hitler. There, we're done here.
These conversations inevitably focus on Apple, but what about contract workers in similar factories who make phones for Samsung, Huawei, Microsoft (that still feels weird to write) and newcomers like OnePlus? I suspect that conditions are worse, simply because there is less external oversight.
and the CEO enjoys dicks up his ass
If you aren't a Randian Uberman, you are shit.
Libertarian fantasy FTW!!!
I used to work in China, in tech business. I have been to several Pegatron's factories in China as well as to several Foxconn factories
All the factories that I have visited are, to put it mildly, LABOR CAMPS
But there is a difference
The factories run by Foxconn, the condition has improved. While it's still "labor camp" like, at least it is humane --- and Foxconn having been scarred by the exposure (of suicides and whatnots) they are at least playing by the rules
Not so in Pegatron factories
Conditions there are way beyond inhumane. They lock workers inside a room, with few ventilation, and ask the worker to apply strong chemicals, chemicals that can destroy body cells if inhaled, that are carcinogenic, onto the devices that they are working on
Many ex-workers from Pegatron develop all kinds of ailments after being exposed to those chemicals, and there have been numerous protest against Pegatron, in many Chinese cities
I am not saying that Foxconn is an angel, no, they run labor camps as well. But at the very least, they are toeing the line, for the moment
In the interest of due diligence, I must ask whether Mike Daisey is behind this investigation?
Most phones that are manufactured in these places are Android phones--yet we only here about Apple failing to protect workers. Cisco, Nintendo, Sony, Amazon, etc. all use these companies (Pegatron, Foxconn, etc.).
But it's okay because those companies never pretended to try to enforce higher standards--that's what you're saying, right? with a straight face and everything.
Apple is not the only one guilty of this, but it's more egregious in their case because they trade a lot on their luxury image.
If companies cared about workers, they'd set up factories in countries were workers are actually protected by lax and practice. Apple especially have the profits to do so.
They don't, and they don't. Let's just stop pretending the resulting product is glamorous.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
and we are all humbled before your uncompromising integrity.
Do you have a solution to the problem to propose?
Pegatron named as Microsoft Surface fondleslab foundry
Microsoft Inks Deal With Pegatron Over Linux and Chrome Use
Pegatron Gets OEM Orders for Blu-ray Xbox 360 Consoles
then they could charge more for their services. If the company that designs and retails the product is getting overpaid for their value, then a competitor will undercut them and they'll lose in the market.
That's how the free market works--no other economic system has ever come anywhere close to mimicking the efficiency of free-market capitalism (when there is actually competition as there obviously is in the electronics industry)--but hey, yeah, maybe you'll invent a new economic system within a Slashdot comment that'll change the world.
The real problem here is that there are no laws preventing the exploitation of Chinese workers, or those laws are insufficiently enforced.
From TFA:
Apple said it was a very common practice for workers to nap during breaks, but it would investigate any evidence they were falling asleep while working.
Steve Jobs was (in real life, not in the Apple-fable), a right royal ass hole. Sure he made a crapload of money, and investors were happy, and yuppies love his big-boy-pants versions of the speak-and-spell (eg: ispeak, ispell), etc. But people who actually *worked* for Jobs? They though he was a ruthless asshole. And the Chinese factory workers are a reflection of Apple's corporate culture. Steve Jobs writ large. So now instead of being able to jump to their deaths, they have safety nets to catch despondent workers. Their last week's pay is deducted because they have to pay for use of the net (iNet), and they get a pink slip as soon as the guards pull them off of it. The guards are not allowed to shoot them even if they beg to be shot- bullets are expensive and messy. Not sure about bayonets though.
I don't have any citations about what that AC said, but our company did tell us it is CHEAPER to pay us overtime and work us 12s than it is to hire a second shift and work both 8s. Not because of productivity or anything like that, but because they are only taxed and only have to contribute our medical insurance premiums for the regular hours. OT doesn't count. And no, I don't have any cites for that either. But I do recall hearing what the AC is referring to, maybe 10 years ago, but I don't remember where I heard it. Probably /.
Your 6 digit UID says you aren't new here, but your question certainly does. There is ONLY one answer: the investigator is CLEARLY Bennett Haselton!
This type of emotional counter response is what we vote up now to +5 guys? Shameful, even if you agree with the sentiment. We should be about discourse here, not laying emotional whackamole against each other, we are better than reddit.
This is more of a problem of the Chinese government, which is the subject that is supposed to take care of its citizens than for Apple, but capitalism has been profiting from the week and unprotected long before Marx. The societies that have managed to build good living standards of living have long realized this is a problem and taken measures to correct it. Pity it doesn't work everywhere, mostly because greed goes well with paid 'free market' propaganda bullshit.
scholar.google.com if anybody's interested.
Effects of scheduled overtime on labor productivity - Abstract says 'no significant effect on productivity'
Productivity in manufacturing...: As hours/day dropped, they worked more days(of the year), so productivity remained about the same.
Scheduled Overtime and Labor Productivity: Quantitative Analysis: Productivity drops 10-15% for 50/60 hour work weeks.
Effect of Reducing Interns' Work Hours: Surprise, Surprise, NOT working medical interns for 24+ hours straight reduces serious medical errors by more than 50%.
I don't read AC A human right
... don't those same companies assemble things for other manufacturers as well?
There is no solution in a rigged economy.
For a permanent, meaningful fix, you'd need to outlaw the following:
1. Psychopaths holding positions of power and leadership.
2. Usury and the global banking elite.
Until then, all you can do on an individual level is make every choice you can to not play along. For computer equipment, buy used and learn how to repair it. It's not a perfect solution since no electronics are made without slaves, but it's better than Feeding the Beast directly. It honors the people who bled for your equipment by not throwing out their labor when it has lost its shine.
For everything else, save up and pay for products you know are fairly traded. Yes, you'll pay ten times what you would at Walmart, but that's the choice. Live with less, use efficiently, and guess what? It's not as hard as it sounds, you'll actually be proud of your possessions.
You would have to boycott HP, Amazon, Google, and just about every other computer/smartphone/device manufacturer. Not just Apple. Apple is a small part of the manufacturing taking place, even when you only consider those markets Apple is participating in.
That comment deserves a positive moderation.
... I remember my GF [grandfather] telling me that 'every 4 hours, they are required to let us eat'. even today, at my 'cushy IT job' I don't get a food break every 4 hours ...
You probably do. Its one of those things that moved from union contracts to state law. Read your employee handbook, it probably says something about mandatory breaks and mealtimes after fixed numbers of hours. Or read the mandatory state labor rules poster in the break room at work.
if my GF was still alive, he'd be furious for the things he and his peers fought for and yet we let drift away over the years.
My grandfather's working days began a little later than yours, late 1920s. Blue collar union jobs from the late 1930s until retirement in the 70s. The way he explained it to me is that unions were less important today because the things the unions fought for back in the day are generally in the law now. So we're protect by law not union contract now. That the things his union fought for in the 60s and 70s, and that he went on strike over (reluctantly), were largely BS and they lost money by striking. The additional benefits, relative to the offer on the table before going on strike, never making up for the lost wages. That it was just politics and posturing of the union, and the union looking out for the union organization not the workers they represented. Every union is different but his was a very large well known union so I think his story may be more of the norm not the exception.
After 30 years working in software development I've not seen a return to the bad old days as you suggest. Never had an employer that didn't recognize breaks and meals. About all you could say is that it was left to you, no manager was clocking you in and out. Certainly no manager was upset when you disappeared for half an hour and reappeared with a soft drink cup from a local fast food joint in your hand. The only time my managers ever cared was after a bogus complaint to the state by a disgruntled former employee, yes myself and coworkers thought the complaint bogus. Then managers were all annoying asking if you've been working four hours yet and haven't taken a meal break. They didn't care if you were in the flow coding and not hungry yet and wanted to continue for another hour before grabbing a bite, they had to interrupt you. And if you really wanted to stress them out say you brought a sandwich and wanted to eat at your desk while you worked. Losing the flexibility to take a meal at 3 to 5 hours of work depending on your focus and/or your hunger did not improve things.
The closest you could get to the bad old days was that we were salary and didn't get paid overtime. However at the one company where we put in a ton of overtime we got pretty decent bonuses that made up for it. Now are all companies decent in this manner, no, certainly not. But as "white collared" salaried employees things were not that different from the old strong union days. Want to talk about unpaid overtime, talk to an uncle who worked on the space program in the 50s and 60s. Of course in their mind they were on a holy crusade and happy to do it, even more so than a recent college grad offered a job at a video game company.
There's an endless supply of Chinese, just like there's an endless supply of iPhones.
For computer equipment, buy used and learn how to repair it. It's not a perfect solution since no electronics are made without slaves, but it's better than Feeding the Beast directly. It honors the people who bled for your equipment by not throwing out their labor when it has lost its shine.
That's pure whitewashing. Like saying that if you don't buy endangered species souvenirs directly from the poacher makes it okay.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Unless systemd is the topic, then Slashdot turns into a shitfest of backwards ideology.
Do you realize how big these mega-factories are?
Some of them function much more like a town than factories and how much time did BBC spend inside Pegatron's factories? Did BBC get to go everywhere?
My time spend inside both Foxconn's factories and the ones belonging to Pegatron I spend month inside, yes, months , and we didn't even go outside until our projects were completed
With the months I stayed inside, I get to go to many corners, sometime accompanied by factory staffs, sometime I went alone and in there I found large rooms emitting very strong solvent odors and seeing through the glass doors (walking through the corridors) I saw sometimes 20, sometimes 50, sometimes over 200 people working inside those rooms
Even in the corridors the odors of those strong solvent was already nauseating enough, can you imagine working inside those rooms?
Furthermore most of those rooms were not equipped with ventilation vents, or windows or anything that can vent out those chemicals
Of course you can call me a liar, that's your pejorative, but it's way too easy to do name calling here while people's lives, even if those lives are of the Chinese (maybe their lives are "cheap" in your view), are at stake
So you're saying that because the management and directors are arseholes, it doesn't matter what the reporters find out?
It is the second part, there are laws with stiff penalties against exploitation of workers in China.
However it is often the west that has to get the Chinese authorities to enforce them.
Yep, the BBC is a single homogeneous unit, so the higher ups protecting Saville during his active years 20 years ago or whatever are EXACTLY the same people as those doing the investigation. On that note we should arrest the geniuses at the local Apple store for human rights abuses because they are clearly the same people.
Not to mention their disgraceful one side coverage of the Scottish referendum on Independence this year have left many like myself really not giving much of a shit as to what they have to "report" these days.
Well, Salmond's ludicrous wishlist er, I mean plan for independence was fatally flawed in many ways. The thing is the case against was mostly "the case for is really flawed". Which was true. But yeah, journalists should give equal weight to each sides. Teach the controversy!
SJW n. One who posts facts.
In related news... Apple is continuing to deny responsibility for space junk launched into space by Boeing, which is known to use Apple products, and has repeatedly dodged questions about their sole responsibility for the existence of Somali pirates, who are known to have held hostage container ships containing one or more containers of Apple products, among the many thousands of containers aboard.
Oh. I'm sorry... weren't we playing the "Blame Apple for the actions of other people" game?
It's not perfect, as I already said, but it's the best one can do short of not using a computer at all, which isn't really an option today. But it's also not pure whitewashing. It's certainly better than thoughtlessly upgrading every time the whim hits.
How long have you been running your computer? My newest is 10 years old and I've learned how to service it myself. I'm keeping as much of my cash out of the slave trade as can be reasonably achieved. If everybody did the same, (and that's quite possible given the huge amount of old hardware floating around), Foxcon would have to close its doors.
Listen, I hesitate to post this. I'm friends with a lot of antiglobalists and absolute believe you mean well. But exaggerating an perpetuating racial stereotypes, and pretending that Chinese (and African and other non-OECD) consumers are not the PRIMARY beneficiaries of the industrial revolution ignores history by pretending language and race make our own industrial adolescence unique.
"You have chosen to rationalize non-tariff trade barriers to free employment of Chinese workers, probably to protect markets for a product you or your employer couldn't manufacture affordably enough for world (e.g. Chinese) consumers to buy and share your pleasant lifestyle. Your rationalization is characterized by one or more of the following possible memes;
[_] Calling engineers and employees of Chinese ODM factory "Chinese peasants"
[_] iPhones/Pads would cost too much for Chinese, Indian, and other emerging consumers if I had to pay my fellow wealthy citizens to make them
[_] iPhones employment/affluence overseas will not evolve the environmental regulations the industrial revolution caused me to vehemently insist for myself
[X] All the other progressive claiming manufacturers are using racial #whitesaviorcomplex memes too
[_] Some/Many/Most Chinese workers appreciate shrinking 40 hour weeks, quintupling of pay, and breathing their own consumption's aluminum dust
[X] It's not Foxconn, it's Apple
[_] It's not the Chinese government, it's Apple
[_] They (ODMs like Foxconn) should use their engineering degrees to continuously redesign products they patented if they don't like it
[_] OMG It's capitalism at work!
[_] OMG It's communism at work!
[_] My crass generalizations about "disposable workers" are paid applied to Apple disposable workers than my nation's agriculture and food (apple) harvesting
[_] Apple's auditors didn't prove a negative, that Mike Daisy's fictitious serious issues might not apply anyplace they didn't audit
[_] Five years ago, thanks to Taiwanese engineering firms like Foxconn, the Chinese who worked in Shenzhen were too wealthy to exploit
[_] My Android is Foxconn too
[_] I'm an Apple hater using Apple as a scapegoat
[_] I also work 60/80/100/120 hour weeks at my IT job
[_] Apple designers are in Taipei and Vancouver
[_] Every sanctimonious protectionist colonial power did the same thing to every successfully emerging market
[_] China outlawed slavery too.
[_] The Chinese manufacturers have no prison labor today
[_] It's up to the Chinese to stand up to their oppressive government
[_] There are lines of willing workers trying to do my job, better than I do, at Foxconn factories
[_] If any company were to stop hyperbolizing the exploitation, I really think it'll be Apple
[_] My affordable Chinese hardware runs on Android and Linux, and its white box OEMs made computers too affordable to the masses
[_] Foxconn workers think they have it great, but it's no ok until Anti-globalists say so!
[_] Foxconn worker suicide rate is lower than Chicago's suicide rate
[_] China's worker homicide rate is lower than Chicago's homicide rate
[_] If poor people get to use the same devices the wealthy use, it can pollute the whole world!
[_] Half of all Chinese households have an Foxconn product
[_] If they develop emerging cities like Shenzhen, I'll have no anti-globalist #whitesaviorcomplex causes to champion
[_] The falsely claimed high incidence of suicides didn't get the insurance money for hyperbolized suicide claims
[_] You can afford to read from a macbook/iphone/ipad right now
[_] When I post about suicide nets on American bridges, it's less exotic and altruistic sounding
[_] I'm writing to Interns in the US who don't get paid to make them think it's because of immigrant farm workers and engineers in Taipei and Hong Kong
[_] By merely suggesting the inference that some high tech Chinese factories beat the wo
Gently reply
Im sure that will be the next statement from the Apple management team.
SO Apple Fanbois, how does it feel that your "Gold Plated Turd" is the product of abused workers??
Of course you dont care.
You and everyone else knows it--the mental contortions required by Android fans to criticize Apple for something that is worse in Android-land is transparent and ridiculous.
Competition benefits the consumer directly. Free-market capitalism is not equivalent to unconstrained (i.e. stupid) libertarianism--it only works properly with laws/regulations setting boundaries. Laws need to: (a) prevent the abuse of monopolies, (b) protect workers, (c) prevent collusion, and (d) ensure some limited monopoly on new technology to create an incentive for R&D.
There are some industries where the laws aren't working properly or the nature of the industry prevents competition (like cable tv providers)--the competition in electronics works perfectly--what is failing in the electronics industry is the 'laws protecting workers' part.
It's not Apple, it's China. How the hell can Apple dictate any more than they already have? They have an ethical responsibility, of course, but they are inspecting facilities, they are writing ethical behaviors into contracts, they are threatening legal action... what more can a company do???
Do you really think that GM or Ford ever did this for their factory workers?
Of course not! Why do you think unions exist?
Are there unions in China? Of course not... but why do you think that is?
China.
Apple *IS* doing something about it. They *DO* have strict rules regarding supplier conditions. They *DO* audit them. There *HAS BEEN* penalties levied. They *HAVE ALREADY* elevated conditions, some, in China.
1) No, Apple hasn't done anything to anyone
2) Apple TECHNICALLY doesn't have to
3) Everyone else is doing it
4) It's not right that this happens
5) Someone should do something about this
6) Apple HAS done something about this
7) We are not there yet
8) Apple SHOULD continue
9) Pressure others to do the same
I don't get the FUD on both sides of the aisle. I don't get the anti-Apple fervor. They were dead last in green products, until they decided not to be. They were NEVER the worst with labor conditions (that I've seen written) but they WERE the first ones to push for it.
Get a grip people.
Is this kind of abuse actually effective? European (and maybe American) companies and policymakers often insist that giving workers time off and treating them decently actually increases overall productivity, so does anyone know of studies if this would be true in this case, too?
Do you have a solution to the problem to propose?
Fairphone for starters:
http://www.fairphone.com/