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Google and Apple Weaseling Out of "Do Not Track"

An anonymous reader writes "Per an op-ed in today's New York Times, Google, Apple, and others would be effectively exempt from "Do not track": "[T]he rules would allow the largest Internet giants to continue scooping up data about users on their own sites and on other sites that include their plug-ins, such as Facebook's 'Like' button or an embedded YouTube video. This giant loophole would make 'Do Not Track' meaningless."

145 comments

  1. Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    DNT is and always was optional, why bother?

    1. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      What is needed is some way to poison the information sent to them. And of course, that more people block ads. And that people stop being so lazy and don't give a shit. I think the last one is the largest problem. Maybe a leak of millions of people's private email would be good.

    2. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This matters because if two of the biggest tracking companies have openly decided that they will not listen to users who ask not to be tracked, then there is no longer any wiggle-room left where they can claim any moral arguments in this war, even to the layperson. They have effectively just doubled-down and escalated the arms race between them and ad blockers/anonymizing services by not even making a token empty promise to honor their user's desires.

    3. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Track me not extension poisons the search giant's tree of knowledge. There may be better ones but that's the one I know.

    4. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we need is for the FCC to shut down any website that violates DNT, even if that website happens to be Bing or Google.

      Just to serve as a warning, an example could be made out of one.

    5. Re: Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But... First you say you give a shit, then you are using gmail? Or did I misunderstand you?

    6. Re:Not new by CBravo · · Score: 1

      There could be a P2P-like-sharing of cookies from those sources. Got to watch out for special cases (login stuff or after viewing private content). You could swap out cookies after every page visit (given certain pages).

      I am still wondering why my browser would care for cookies from those domains when being on a whole different site. Or limits their lifetimes better (sure google maps can set a cookie when visiting a website, but after closing the page it should be gone).

      --
      nosig today
    7. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FCC does not have the jurisdiction to shut down websites.

    8. Re:Not new by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I always understood that the point of DNT was simply to advertise intent, so that in any future discussions, in or out of court, the tracking companies would not be able to claim any form of implicit consent. It doesn't matter that it's optional or unenforceable on a technical level, it matters that you can't track people who set the DNT header and then say 'well, they didn't object at the time...' when hit by a class-action lawsuit.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At this time. I don't see why there wouldn't be a possibility of it becoming law sometime in the future given technologically and internet-aware, non-corrupt politicians.

      That's a lot of presumptions, but it's not out of the question.

    10. Re: Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was always obvious. Anyone thinking Americans will get anywhere near to a working obfuscation system for tracking habits before a Constitutional privacy amendment is written in stone is smoking crack. Corporate has more power than that and our system is corrupt. It'll take marching in streets to push that one forward.

    11. Re:Not new by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "Hey now, I already block ads and I definitely do give a shit"

      Ad blocking to stop it cluttering your screen (or sucking bandwidth) is worthwhile, but it also tells the websites you're adblocking.

      Adblockers which click on every single ad and follow links and generally fuck with statistics do far more damage to advertising models than adblockers, if you have the bandwidth.

      As I'm not bandwidth limited, I'm leaning toward the latter than the former.

  2. Weasle by Cowclops · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel...

  3. There's no such thing as a free lunch by twitnutttt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "A study commissioned by the Interactive Advertising Bureau with researchers from Harvard Business School underscores the point: at least half of the Internet’s economic value is based on the collection of individual user data, and nearly all commercial content on the Internet relies on advertising to some extent. Digital advertising grew to a $42.8 billion business last year, a sum that already exceeds spending on broadcast television advertising."

    One way or another, you pay for your free Internet services.

    1. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I pay for Internet access. And rather steeply, compared to the rest of the first-world nations. A great many of those sites and services can sustain themselves without tracking me to sell me ads, yet some of them dug themselves into a hole where they could not function without it. I would rather not use their services, yet they still track me because they have weasled their way into every nook and cranny of the web regardless. Where is my "honorable" choice to not use their services without also paying for them?

    2. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      One way or another, you pay for your free Internet services.

      It's not "one way or another". It's ONE WAY.

      Where do I sign up to pay for Google and Twitter and other internet services directly instead of via my private data? I've been to Google thousands of times, and I've never seen a "subscribe" button.

      No, there is no "one way or another". You can ONLY pay for your internet services by letting companies upskirt your private communications and personal data. That gives you some idea of just how valuable your private data really is.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      You pay for access. Content not included.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps it is time for that to change. If the alternative to having an open web is having no open web, then I would rather have two webs; a commercial one that requires prepaid access, and the open web, which can remain free of all of this forceful advertiser BS. Of course that won't happen, because this isn't about "paying for services". It's about people trying to make money for nothing, and trying to ensure that the Internet has no corner which does not lead to their ads.

    5. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      How about ads without tracking.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    6. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by lgw · · Score: 1

      Sure, but I also pay for content (the vast majority of bits streamed to my endpoint are Netflix, followed by game-related stuff), and surely blogs could still make money from non-tracking ads, right? It's only the likes of Facebook that would vanish, so nothing of value would be lost.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re: There's no such thing as a free lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already have that. Some sites require paid subscriptions to access, and you're free to use the ones that don't charge.

    8. Re: There's no such thing as a free lunch by NoZart · · Score: 1

      and those sites will respect my privacy?

    9. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      For me, the quality of ads (meaning the probability that I'd actually click on them) went down a lot when Google started targeting ads at me, rather than at the content of the page that I was viewing. You don't need all of the stalker-like behaviour on ad networks to classify web pages, match them with relevant adverts, and show non-tracking ads.

      I'm a bit surprised that there isn't a startup doing tracking-free ads. I bet a lot of people who use AdBlock would be willing to put in an exemption for a company that did not track and ran plain text only ads (you know, like the ads Google used to run, back when we all liked the relevant and non-annoying Google ads).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Considering more than 80% of the "content" seems to be on the intellectual level of "How many inches has Kim Kardashian's ass grown today?" ask me how many fucks I would give if all this "content" were to dry up and blow away along with the malware ridden shitstains they call ads which I have to clean up after when they trash my beautiful creations....answer? ZERO, absolute zero fucks would I give.

      The simple fact is you get rid of ads and POOF! Malware be gone, in fact I can't even remember the last malware infection I cleaned that didn't come from somebody that didn't know about adblocking. And wadda ya know I block the ads and tada! They only need to come for me for upgrades....ahhh, you smell that? That is the smell of smugness as I do my little part to help slowly strangle the rotten to the core industry known as Internet advertising. It smells like happiness and cookies!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    11. Re: There's no such thing as a free lunch by nerdguy569 · · Score: 1

      Google Contributor (contributor.google.com) strives to come close by letting you pay a small amount for each ad it replaces. (Still in a limited invite-only preview and only white lists a few sites for now)

      --
      In the future, we will all be very smart or very stupid.
    12. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by mjtaylor24601 · · Score: 1

      I'm confused. If every content page where these oh-so-terrible ads are being displayed is full of such obvious crap why are you visiting them in the first place? Or, if you're not visiting those pages, why do you give a $#%^@ what ads they do or don't show? Seems to me that it shouldn't be effecting you at all.

      --
      I wish I were as sure of anything as some people are of everything
    13. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you feel that way, I'm sure you've signed up for Google Contibutor, right?:

          https://www.google.com/contributor/welcome/
      You can now put your money where your mouth is. If you skip this opportunity, it's pretty clear that ads is the way that people prefer, despite what they might *say*.

    14. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Google Contributor does absolutely nothing to stop Google from tracking anyone. In fact, it gives them additional personal information.

      Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying. I want to be able to use Google services without being tracked in any way shape or form, and I'm willing to pay for the privilege. Same goes for Twitter, etc.

      Until I am able to do that, I'm just going to block ads, use Blur, Privacy Badger and any tool that lets me confound Google's ability to monetize me. I am not a consumable.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re: There's no such thing as a free lunch by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Google Contributor (contributor.google.com) strives to come close by letting you pay a small amount for each ad it replaces.

      It doesn't stop Google from collecting your information, though. They just don't serve you ads. Instead, they serve you to other corporations.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    16. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by Addicted+To+FM · · Score: 1

      THIS My brother used to bring me his computer every few months and there would always be hundreds of instances of malware crap on there. His personal record was over 700! I installed ad blockers and freeware programs like spybot & spyware blaster... and taught him to keep them all up to date. His computer stopped getting infected with malware and slowing to a crawl. I wonder how many people simply don't understand how easy it is for ads... particularly FLASH ads to fuck up their computer.

    17. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Because its all the creepy sex laden ads for this "content" that ends up getting people infected which I end up having to clean? I swear if you removed the Kardashians and Miley "look at my goodies!" Cyrus from the Internet? BOOM virus infections down by over 35%, its a fucking miracle.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    18. Re:There's no such thing as a free lunch by mjtaylor24601 · · Score: 1

      Ah, so it's just your friends and / or loved ones that spend on their time on the internet looking at stuff with absolutely no intellectual, cultural or artistic merit. Feel free to carry on being smug then.

      --
      I wish I were as sure of anything as some people are of everything
    19. Re: There's no such thing as a free lunch by nerdguy569 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't stop Google from collecting your information, though. They just don't serve you ads. Instead, they serve you to other corporations.

      Thanks for moving the goal post. I never said anything about information collection as it's impossible for a micro-payment system to work and have anyone trust it without some sort of information exchange and logging.

      --
      In the future, we will all be very smart or very stupid.
  4. I automatically disbelieved this post by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Firstly because of the hysterical tone, secondly because it's an op-ed, and thirdly because it's on Slashdot.

    Can someone who knows what's going on analyze this and give a reasonable non-hysterical interpretation? I don't necessarily /trust/ the companies mentioned, but again the submission stinks.

    1. Re:I automatically disbelieved this post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For one thing, "Do Not Track" has never meant the same thing to the Big Data companies as it has to the layman. In practice Do Not Track really means "do not remind me you are tracking me by showing me obvious clues like ads for shit I already bought last week." But they still track people and build up profiles that they sell/rent to other companies who use it more subtley like estimating your income, race, age, politics, family relations, arrest records, etc and that all goes into thinks like background/credit reports etc. Plus they also wait for the second you accidentally do give them permission and then all those years worth of tracking data in a "ghost profile" gets officially attached to your profile and they start showing you ads for shit you already own.

    2. Re:I automatically disbelieved this post by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Quite right. In summary: none of us here in the peanut gallery have any real way to know who did what. Most of the opinions I've seen here seem to reflect whatever biases each opiner may have. The known facts are few and far between. Of course, I have my own opinions but I won't share them because they reflect my own biases.

      This thing is a bit like an Agatha Christie mystery. You may be certain who did it, but you don't really know until Christie tells you. Then you invariably find out you were wrong. Even the strategy of picking the least likely culprit doesn't work. Unfortunately, in this case, we don't have the author to tell us the "truth", so we likely will never know.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    3. Re:I automatically disbelieved this post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the hell will they start showing me ads for things I don't own yet? I might not mind it so much then.

    4. Re:I automatically disbelieved this post by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Of course, I have my own opinions but I won't share them because they reflect my own biases.

      That may be the single stupidest sentence in the history of stupid sentences on the Internet.

      You won't share what you think because it's what you think. Everything you see and think and say and do reflects your own biases. If you decide not to share a single bit of data that is floating around in your head if it happens to reflect your biases, that means you will spend the rest of your life mute, which come to think of it might be best for everyone.

      I've just re-read your entire comment and it doesn't seem to say anything at all about anything. Are you a Markov bot? If so, your maker forgot to put in the AI.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re: I automatically disbelieved this post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Same on YouTube. All my recommended videos are ones I watched from 1 week to 5 minutes ago.

    6. Re:I automatically disbelieved this post by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      I gotta admit that's one that surprises me.

      For the most part, I have no problem with the theory of "targeted advertising." The problem I have is that with all this data that is supposedly being soaked up, it does a pretty crappy job of delivering ads for things I might actually be interested in. Yeah, I suppose it does a good job of filtering ads that I absolutely have no interest in--I haven't seen a "Pampers" ad or something like that.

      I'm somewhat in the market for a new car. I like small convertibles/roadsters. I went and checked out the Mini Cooper Roadster on Mini's website and then checked a bunch of the dealer websites to see if they had the options that I wanted in stock (none did). And for the next few weeks, I was seeing ads for the Mini Cooper Roadster from various local dealers whose websites I've already visited!

      Yes, I've been there and seen it. I would think it would be showing me ads for the Mazda Miata or Audi TT--similar roadster-type cars. I would think it would showing me ads for dealers a bit further afield.

    7. Re:I automatically disbelieved this post by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      Hi! Is there a reason why you posted this twice?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    8. Re:I automatically disbelieved this post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea of showing you ads for stuff you are likely to want but are unaware of is a pipe dream. It will require serious artificial intelligence to do that because the problem it is trying to solve is to model you -- your experiences, your biases, your opinions etc. So the best they can do in that vein is to show you crap you already know about and hope the repetition wears you down.

      But what they can get really good at is figuring out how to press your buttons regardless of product. Think of beer commercials with bikini babes. Now they can figure out if you have a "type" and show you beer commercials with girls who are exactly your "type." Or consider diaper advertising. Instead of showing random kids in a generic house with generic furnishing they can show a baby that looks a lot like your baby with the same brand of blanket, on the same sofa, playing with the same toys, etc, etc. It won't be about showing you a unique product, it will be about manipulating you to favor whatever product the ad agency has been hired to sell that day.

      Then there are products that cater to addictions -- cigarettes, alcohol, rich foods, gambling, even things like tanning and anorexia. If they can figure out alcoholism runs in your family then they can decide you are a good mark for alcohol advertising. Or if they know you smoke and they figure out you haven't purchased any cigarettes for a while they might send you a coupon for a free pack because if you break the habit that's money lost. Just got dumped by your boyfriend? Here's a coupon for ben & jerry's and the guy in the ad looks amazing like your ex and the girl looks like his new girlfriend. Targeted marketing is becoming all about pushing your buttons rather than informing you because that doesn't take AI, just big motherfucking databases.

    9. Re: I automatically disbelieved this post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The NYT editorial reflects the agenda of ad networks that want to discredit first party sites, which have relationships with users who can be offered opt outs. dnt is about tracking across domains. It's an opt out of invisible third party tracking. But the invisible third parties-as networks-don't like that so they are trying to discredit sites that can communicate directly with readers and offer them choices. And to answer another commenter, not every company has a "ghost profile" of opted out users.oat don't. But some may.

    10. Re:I automatically disbelieved this post by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It depends a lot on the category of goods. Amazon was successful in part because their recommendation system did exactly what you and the grandparent are complaining about: it recommended things that were very similar to the thing that you'd just bought. This works well for books, music, and films / TV shows, because if you like one thing in one of these categories then you'll probably like other similar things in the same category. At the simplest level, if you just bought season 1 of a show, there's a good chance that you'll buy season 2. It doesn't work so well for things like cars or computers: if you've bought one laptop, then there's a very low chance that you'll want to buy a similar laptop next week.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  5. Of Course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't mean to sound glib but, of course they are!

    Both company's entire business models are 100% predicated on tracking people. Facebook has a $200B market valuation based on nothing but tracking the ever-living-shit out of as many people as they possibly can. Two hundred billion fucking dollars! There is simply no way these companies will ever agree to not track anyone when there is that kind of money on the line. For that kind of money they will murder people before they give up tracking. That is "invade a foreign country" levels of money on the line. All those people who thought GM conspired to kill the electric car 20 years ago, this is easily 10x more than that.

    1. Re:Of Course by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Both company's entire business models are 100% predicated on tracking people.

      What are you talking about? Apple's business model revolves around selling people hardware. They've just launched a digital payment scheme with privacy being a major differentiator. If you think that Apple's business model is "100% predicated on tracking people", you don't know the first thing about their business model.

      There is simply no way these companies will ever agree to not track anyone when there is that kind of money on the line.

      Apple are positioning themselves to use privacy as a selling point. Their business model is entirely different to Google's and they can make more money by going in the opposite direction.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    2. Re:Of Course by Bogtha · · Score: 2

      I'm talking about Facebook and Google, two of the companies explicitly listed in the article. You did RTFA right? Or are you one of those tards who manufactures the least charitable interpretation of what someone says and goes to town on them with a straw man?

      The title of this submission: Google and Apple. The summary: Google and Apple. The article: Adobe, Apple, Facebook, Google and Yahoo. You said "both companies". Only two companies were singled out, Google and Apple. So yeah, to a reasonable person, it looks very much like you started off talking about Google and Apple, then expanded your point by talking about Facebook, and then to the other companies. Don't call me a "tard" because you fucked up what you were saying and I interpreted it in the most reasonable manner.

      They are like google

      The two companies have entirely different business models. Analytics is central to Google's business model. It's barely a blip on Apple's radar, and is insignificant compared with the way they use it as a differentiator.

      Sure, Apple has business lines that generate income from hardware sales

      That's so understated it's downright misrepresentative. They make billions of dollars a quarter from hardware sales. Even the amount of money they could theoretically make from analytics would be a drop in the bucket compared with that, let alone any earnings they might actually have. The potential chilling effect on their real business is far more relevant than any theoretical profits there. And you mention it like "oh yeah, they make money from hardware too"? Come on.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    3. Re:Of Course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree completely... I thought s/he was talking about Google and Apple too.

    4. Re:Of Course by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      I'm not complaining that you aren't being charitable. I'm pointing out that you misspoke then blamed me for it. If you misspoke, then own your words and just say "whoops, I didn't mean those guys" instead of looking for somebody else to shift blame to.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  6. No problem. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1, Informative

    You go to a Google site, expect to be tracked. If it's an issue to you, don't do to a Google site.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:No problem. by bmimatt · · Score: 3, Informative

      You are obviously clueless. The issue is cross-domain tracking, as in where someone uses one of the FB, Goog, or other 'widgets' or advertising integrations on their own site. Could be something as 'unrelated' as using Goog Analytics. You visit site X, the analytics code collects information about your visit and stores it on Goog servers. Then you visit site Y and code used to embed youtube video does the same. Rinse, Repeat.

    2. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or any site that has a little g+ icon. or resells google ads. or uses any other google
      services or plugins

    3. Re:No problem. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are obviously clueless. The issue is cross-domain tracking, as in where someone uses one of the FB, Goog, or other 'widgets' or advertising integrations on their own site...

      Don't go to sites that use FB widgets. Use Ghostery or a number of other tools. If you are being tracked, it's because you *allow* it.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    4. Re:No problem. by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm a big fan of Privacy Badger, mainly because it can automatically block trackers based on behavior rather than having to rely on someone's premade block list.

      https://www.eff.org/privacybad...

      The same folks provide HTTPS Everywhere, another must-have.

      https://www.eff.org/HTTPS-EVER...

    5. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's like saying if the NSA is recording your phone calls it is because you *allow* it.

      That randian uberman shit is just a teenage wet dream, the real world is significantly more complex than you are able to handle.

    6. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are obviously clueless. The issue is cross-domain tracking, as in where someone uses one of the FB, Goog, or other 'widgets' or advertising integrations on their own site...

      Don't go to sites that use FB widgets. Use Ghostery or a number of other tools. If you are being tracked, it's because you *allow* it.

      And if internet access is a right for your average non-tech-savvy person?

    7. Re:No problem. by bmimatt · · Score: 1

      Your reasoning is very simplistic and flawed. Let me iterate over a few key issues with it.
      I cannot predict what third party integrations a given site uses prior to visiting it. Even though I use a myriad of plugins that block third party origins, such as RequestPolicy, when I visit websites using googleapis and other $google_widgets, the content is not available, as it relies on Goog serving the content. There are multitude of other origins, such as *.amazonaws.com, without anything clearly identifying the content owner in the URL. Some of such sites are linked from /. articles every day. Including today's articles. Furthermore, there are sites that are completely unusable until you enable a dozen+ of 3-rd party origins and widgets. Are you suggesting I should stick to the few sites that do not attempt to feed my browsing data to the collectors? Maybe I'll just stick to my LAN and cut the cord? That would be 'safe', no?

    8. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for pointing me in the direction of that Badger. Installed.

    9. Re:No problem. by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 2

      Ghostery turns that shit off. With rare exceptions, the only add-on I allow to remain is new relic, since that helps my counterparts actually improve the service.

    10. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn, Privacy Badger does indeed look nice. At least it did until I got to this part:

      Does Privacy Badger account for a cookie that was used to track me even if I deleted it?

      Yes. Privacy Badger keeps track of cookies that could be used to track you and where they came from, even if you frequently clear your browser's cookies. (But note that in Firefox, Privacy Badger will be automatically deactivated when you enter Private Browsing Mode, and reactivated when you return to normal browsing. The same behavior occurs if you set the "Never Remember History" option.)

      I have "Never Remember History" always on, so Privacy Badger will not work for me.

    11. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ouch - quite a bad lapse in reading comprehension you had there.

    12. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One problem with privacy badger that i noticed, it makes cookie exceptions for google and other services. If you delete them, it recreates them at startup. I disabled privacy badger. I use cookie monster for managing cookies and only allow cookies temporarely, except for very few sites, so my cookie accept list is short. Google is not one of allowed ones.

    13. Re:No problem. by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 1

      Eh. I can see why the Badger does that: Google has such a huge web presence that blocking their cookies outright will break many things, which would cause an average user to disable it; as it is, I put it on my wife's computer and she's never noticed the difference, unlike with Ghostery.

      I've got Vanilla Cookie Manager for more fine-grained permissions, myself.

    14. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, AC got it right. Not everyone understands the deep inner workings of this software. They see an option to click out, and they reasonably expect a specific result. It's not through some negligence or apathy on their part that they continued to be tracked. The fantasy world of Randians everywhere is that, if federal government does it, it's an infringement, a violation. If a corporation does it, it's the consumer's fault for letting it happen.

    15. Re:No problem. by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 0

      :) I'm aware of the conflict of interest in play. However I'm more interested in a seamless experience than being pedantic about who aggregates my history since I have no possibility of clicking through ads that are never displayed because of Adblock, and even if they're displayed, by policy I ignore and never click through ever ever ever. Ghostery and Adblock+ in combination do well enough, where Privacy Badger doesn't play nicely with Pale Moon and I'm quite over downloading and manually installing zips as I never grew a neck beard. Yes, to a certain degree I simply don't care, which has actually led to having sex as often as I want and Christmas dinners with people capable of conversation.

    16. Re:No problem. by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are being tracked, it's because you *allow* it.

      Wrong.

      It is because you don't prevent it. At least legally, that is a very big difference. If I allow you to hit me in the face, e.g. by participating in a boxing match, then I can't later sue you for bodily harm. If you do it without my permission and I just fail to prevent it, then all the guilt falls on you anyway and I can sue you, plus you have committed a crime. That's quite a big difference there between those two words.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    17. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue was NEVER cross-domain tracking.

      I'm surfing the web since 1999 or so, with one little option: block third party cookies. Works in Firefox, Chrome or Opera (including mobile versions, except Chrome, screw you Google! I'm sure that oversight is completely unintentional!).

      Unlike Noscript or other die-hard approaches it doesn't seem to constrain my browsing in any way. Everything works as expected.

    18. Re:No problem. by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      Looks interesting. I installed it and turned off Ad-Block Plus and Ghostery to let the badger do its thing. The first issue I see is that it requires a training period to identify what's tracking you. I'm not sure I can survive the sewer that is the unfiltered Internet long enough for it to identify trackers....

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    19. Re:No problem. by chihowa · · Score: 1

      If you read through the issue database for Privacy Badger, it seems like the devs are very concerned with not alienating the tracking companies. In many cases, this includes ignoring user input and instead trusting the tracking companies (eg, looking for a /.well-known/dnt-policy.txt file and if found, disregarding the user's desire to block attempted connections).

      I think their intentions are good and the plugin has potential, but it seems that the devs see the tracking companies as honorable players and respect their desires a little too much.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    20. Re:No problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't go to sites that use FB widgets. Use Ghostery or a number of other tools. If you are being tracked, it's because you *allow* it.

      Just to underscore how clueless people are: Ghostery tracks your web browsing on behalf of its parent company, Evidon, who then use that information to sell advertising exposure and effectiveness reports to advertisers. Look here:

            https://www.ghosteryenterprise.com/marketing-cloud-management/

      To quote their own marketing material: "Ghostery’s Ghostrank’s 20 million real-user community members fill the blind spots in your performance monitoring. Finally know how fast your pages are actually loading, and if your marketing cloud vendors are slowing down your site."

  7. TOR by kolbe · · Score: 2

    After Edward Snowden and others came out showing that neither Apple nor Google give 2 shits about their customer's privacy, I've switched to using TOR. Not only that, I limit what my Android phone can see on my PC by ONLY allowing it to connect to a VM running from VirtualBox and of course using a custom Android build.

    It's time people give these fuckers the middle finger... They make enough off of us already.

    1. Re: TOR by mintless · · Score: 2

      TOR is only as private as the entering and exit TOR server your session uses. If either is compromised, or say owned and operated by one of these companies, your data is no longer private.

    2. Re:TOR by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Now we have that story of more than half of all TOR nodes being owned by some hacker group.

      The Internet has been weaponized against us.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re: TOR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technological measures and proper regulation are the only things that are going to stop these people.

      This is of course yet another spectacular and utterly predictable failure of the allegedly self regulating free market.

    4. Re:TOR by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

      After the hype it seems that story was overblown -- looked like less than 1% were compromised. See: https://twitter.com/torproject...

      Still.... I, for one welcome our new Weaponized Internet Ov...LOADING....

      --
      meep
    5. Re:TOR by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      After the hype it seems that story was overblown -- looked like less than 1% were compromised

      That's good. I haven't been able to keep up on the story with the holidays and all.

      I'm thinking that services like TOR (and others) are the one hope for having an internet in the future that is worth having.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:TOR by atrimtab · · Score: 1
      So I guess you've given up on all the web sites that require logins and/or use cookies and JavaScript that don't work if you use TOR in the proper way that prevents tracking. Because TOR is doesn't work on many sites if you set it up to properly actually protect your identity. Add-ons like Disconnect, Privacy Badger, Self-Destructing Cookies, Adblock, and Flashblock provide reasonable mis-direction to tracking with an added VPN that randomizes your visible IP address.

      And NoScript is fantastic except for all the care and feeding necessary to keep up with all the tricks the sites impose. And many sites now make it impossible to view their sites if you use NoScript.

      HTML5 was developed advertising industry input built-in, so its even harder to avoid being tracked.

      So now the choice is becoming be tracked or do not use the web.

      --
      Facebook is billions of individual "Skinner Boxes." And if you use it you are the pigeon!
    7. Re:TOR by CBravo · · Score: 1

      Technically, maybe. Another route to change this is to have regulation prohibiting this (on a large scale like US or EU).

      To aid in this, one has to make it more visible to the end user. Then maybe they will start requiring more strict rules.

      --
      nosig today
    8. Re: TOR by linuxpyro · · Score: 1

      That's why it's a good idea to encrypt data over Tor whenever possible - it's really only there to anonymize. If you're careful and stick to SSL-capable sites for things like email and banking, you should be fine. Otherwise, yes, assume someone will sniff your password.

      --
      Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
    9. Re: TOR by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      A single group would need to own over 50% of Tor nodes for that type of attack to be effective. There are other attacks using (for example) traffic analysis that can be effective without controlling any nodes, but that's a different attack vector.

  8. Solvable for site owners by a 2 click solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately a German project without an English translation. :-(
    Article: http://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/2-Klicks-fuer-mehr-Datenschutz-1333879.html
    Project: http://www.heise.de/extras/socialshareprivacy/

  9. Google is a bloody ad company! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and Apple wants to be Google [iAds, iBeacon, iCreeper]....

    1. Re:Google is a bloody ad company! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uBullshit.

  10. Do not do anything ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Do not do anything that you don't want to see on the front page of the New York Times", has included "or Google searches" for quite some time.

    Assume there are no secrets on the Internet; any other expectation is unrealistically optimistic.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:Do not do anything ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Do not do anything that you don't want to see on the front page of the New York Times", has included "or Google searches" for quite some time.

      Assume there are no secrets on the Internet; any other expectation is unrealistically optimistic.

      You are a CUNT.

      You see, you were correct that there are no secrets on the internet.

  11. Do Not Track never meant anything by beakerMeep · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Do Not Track" never meant anything at all. It's the equivalent of a "Please be nice to me" button.

    We need technical solutions to make fingerprinting harder/impossible. Especially the canvas/font techniques.

    --
    meep
    1. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by CODiNE · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's the tracking quivalent of the "evil bit" in TCP.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    2. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > We need technical solutions to make fingerprinting harder/impossible. Especially the canvas/font techniques.

      That's a losing proposition. You think anything a dedicated band of freedom coders can dream up will have a chance against an industry that does billions of dollars a year? Not fucking likely.

      The only hope we have of "winning" in the long run is to obsolete the business model where trafficking in our privacy has replaced money. Back in the late 90s micropayments were the hot thing. But advertising killed it and assumed the niche the internet food chain. We need frictionless micropayments so that we can start being the customer instead of the product again. We can't fight big business, but we can co-opt them to fight for us if can convince them there are boatloads of money to be made.

      In the meantime though, yeah we could totally use more privacy-preserving tools, heck I use a VPN with 2000+ IP addresses, a user-agent andomizer and requestpolicy and self-destructing cookies. So no need to preach to the choir. But all of that will only be a stop-gap, the real solution is to end the war.

    3. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1
      I think we might see some improvements to some browser extensions and will get some control over the font situation.

      One possibility that could be enabled today with a UserScript even:

      Choose which fonts to allow the browser to see/use, make it an array, filter the page's HTML, replace any fonts that don't match with Arial.

      Beyond that you would probably want an extension that has functionality like RequestPolicy, so you could allow some sites access to "all fonts", or one could get even more finely grained down to which individual sites can use which font.

      Although it could even be done at the OS level. It will be interesting to see who does it first. If the browser is truely caged and segregated, then it should only have indirect access to system level folders.

    4. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by Tom · · Score: 1

      "Do Not Track" never meant anything at all. It's the equivalent of a "Please be nice to me" button.

      DNT was a brilliant display of the advertisement industries unwillingness to regulate itself and respect such wishes. Now they cannot make those claims anymore, and there is evidence on record that actual regulation is required.

      Without DNT, they would always have claimed they're good guys. Now the mask is off.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    5. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The purpose of DNT was to demonstrate, in a measurable way, that people did not wish to be tracked. It was not intended as an enforcement mechanism, but as a statement of intent. It makes it very hard to argue in court that your click-through ToS permits tracking (or constitutes a meeting of minds at all), when the user has explicitly requested not to be tracked.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

      Cross site tracking wasn't some secret. DNT just put some hand-wavey PR fluff at the forefront of the privacy debate, and it's not protecting anyone. This plays wonderfully for companies that make money from products and want to stick it to companies that make money off of ads.

      I don't know about you, but I would like a real solution. A client HTTP header that asks to the server to please behave is a waste of everyone's time. From a technical perspective this should have been laughed out of the room before it ever got started. But DNT was always political. It was just so that some people/groups can point fingers and others can feel vindicated from a false sense of accomplishment. It is exactly what you are doing in your post.

      But most of the people who have heard of DNT also knew cross site tracking was happening long before DNT came to be.

      --
      meep
    7. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

      I get what you are saying but I dont think it actually makes it any harder to argue ToS in court, especially if it is enabled by default in IE.

      If you can agree to contractual terms by clicking through some agreement, you can agree to "waive" your DNT setting. Think about it this way, would it stand up in court if we put a "I don't agree to any DRM in the video I watch online" header in HTTP?

      Either way, I am not sure what court is going to protect you from malicious actors that would not follow DNT. We should be working on stopping the ability to track, not about making statements of intent for possible future litigation in a court of law. Browsers were supposed to be the "thin-client-ish" gatekeepers that sandbox the web for users, not our legal representation.

      --
      meep
    8. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      If you can agree to contractual terms by clicking through some agreement, you can agree to "waive" your DNT setting

      In the US and UK, the requirement for a contract to be enforceable in court is that the side wishing to enforce it must demonstrate that a meeting of minds has occurred. It's far from a binary decision. Some things, such as witnessed signatures at the bottom with each page initialed, have large amounts of case law backing them up, so you need a very strong argument if you want to discount them. For click-through licenses, there's a lot less case law and everything on the opposing side helps. If you can demonstrate that you have actively opted out of tracking and then been presented with a click-through license that, buried somewhere in legalese, there is a permission to track, it's easier to argue that the contract is invalid.

      Either way, I am not sure what court is going to protect you from malicious actors that would not follow DNT.

      The various European data protection offices would be a good bet.

      We should be working on stopping the ability to track, not about making statements of intent for possible future litigation in a court of law.

      Making it impossible to track means making clients indistinguishable, which is very hard. Making tracking without consent illegal is much easier, because the companies that you really worry about doing the tracking are the ones with large and expensive data centres where they can process the data, and these are nice big targets.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by Tom · · Score: 1

      and it's not protecting anyone

      Of course not. Did you even read the message you are replying to?

      I don't know about you, but I would like a real solution.

      Me to. Now the way that politics and law generally work is that less intrusive solutions are tried first. That is what DNT was. Now the road is clear for some real regulations.

      You don't understand politics I see. I was like you 10 years ago. I learnt the hard way that nifty tech solutions are cute, but to get them actually working in the real world, some politics can be extraordinarily useful.

      A lot of ideas died in the halls of parliament not because they were stupid, on the contrary, a lot of them were brilliant. They died because those who proposed and supported them didn't understand how to convince people. If your target audience doesn't understand the technical details, the brilliance of your solution will be lost to them. Your persuasion skills - or lack thereof - however, will not.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    10. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

      Of course I read your post, please don't be condescending and spare me the piecemeal quoting. Not everything in my post was supposed to be a refutation of yours.

      Suggesting we protect privacy through politics just sounds ridiculous to me. It was never even clear what was defined as tracking by DNT. DNT wasn't less intrusive, it was empty and symbolic. So, here's my question: why did we need an empty, symbolic regulation to show that ad companies are tracking people?

      Back to your original point though, the ad industry seemed to be ready to support DNT until MS made the default setting on, which clearly wasn't a user's "wishes". This wasn't a display of the advertising industry's unwillingness to regulate themselves, it was their unwillingness to let MS dictate terms to them.

      Additionally, the NAI has long had an opt out system: http://www.networkadvertising.... (long before DNT). Saying they failed to self-regulate strikes me a misinformed at best.

      Also, you might want to consider your own knowledge level on a subject before accusing others of not understanding, it might improve "your persuasion skills".

      --
      meep
    11. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by Tom · · Score: 1

      why did we need an empty, symbolic regulation to show that ad companies are tracking people?

      until MS made the default setting on

      Which gave them a welcome excuse and that's it. Please, understand PR a little.

      Additionally, the NAI has long had an opt out system:

      Which does squat. The first thing the page tells you is that it only works if you allow 3rd party cookies - the very first thing anyone with any brain cells disables.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    12. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by Tom · · Score: 1

      (first reply mangled because of a bad tag)

      why did we need an empty, symbolic regulation to show that ad companies are tracking people?

      Because without it, they would say: "[bogus study] shows that most people actually want to be tracked, believe it or not, because of [bogus reason]. The minority that doesn't want - they'll just have to tell us, we'll stop doing it because we're good people."

      Been there, done that, they are liars and we have evidence now.

      until MS made the default setting on

      Which gave them a welcome excuse and that's it. Please, understand PR a little.

      Additionally, the NAI has long had an opt out system:

      Which does squat. The first thing the page tells you is that it only works if you allow 3rd party cookies - the very first thing anyone with any brain cells disables.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    13. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

      I agree MS gave them a good excuse to get out of a system they didn't want to deal with, but it's a reasonable argument that defaulting DNT to on makes it not a user expression of intent. Even one of the Apache devs thought so and submitted a patch to ignore specifically IE10's DNT flag. Although the powers that be eventually rolled that patch back.

      In a way, MS poisoned the well, no? Either by (as you state) providing a convenient excuse (possibly intentionally or unintentionally), or by using the flag as a jab at Google. It almost doesn't matter why they did it. The net result was that DNT was ignored by FB, Goog, Apple, Amazon, Adobe and Yahoo -- only Twitter (who use Google Analytics, oddly) went against the grain. MS was warned by a number of marketers this would be the result too, and MS responded with a rather hostile press release.

      And yes it's PR... there's PR going around on all sides here -- that's part of what I am saying. Google et. al. are not innocent bystanders here, dont get me wrong, but I am trying to see the whole picture.

      I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one but I am glad that we both seem to want the same end-game: protecting user privacy. As long as there are smart, good people working on this goal, I think it's probably OK that it proceed on several fronts.

      Personally I am more concerned about other data aggregators than Google (et. al.) though. If you look at companies like HireRight, Experian (et. al.) -- these companies are truly invading peoples lives. Most of the advertising networks are just selling targeting buckets (e.g. target your ad to males over 45 who make over $150k). But the credit bureaus control people's ability to get a house, to buy a car, to get a job. And there is no way to opt out of that.

      Anyways, cheers for the debate.

      --
      meep
    14. Re:Do Not Track never meant anything by Tom · · Score: 1

      but it's a reasonable argument that defaulting DNT to on makes it not a user expression of intent.

      Neither is defaulting it to off.

      MS did the right thing by making the default that option that, in case of doubt, is better for their customers.

      Anyways, cheers for the debate.

      ditto.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  12. I'm shocked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shocked to discover that huge, multi-national corporations employ marginally ethical tactics to deceive customers and further their strategies.

  13. They are not "weaseling" out of anything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There is nothing to weasel out of. There is absolutely nothing that requires anyone comply with "Do Not Track."

    1. Re:They are not "weaseling" out of anything... by Bob_Who · · Score: 2

      But the word WEASEL is just so RIGHT that the rest doesn't really matter. Weasel, weasel, weasel. They are a bunch of weasels and the whole world knows it.

  14. DNT is useless by design by janoc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Did anyone actually believe that the do-not-track flag was effective? There is pretty much no way it can be enforced and the companies can do whatever they want in most cases. E.g. Facebook does not honor it outright, most advertising networks ignore it as well. It was only a silly boondoggle to quickly placate the regulator/lawmakers by showing that the self-regulation in the advertising industry actually "works" and thus no heavy-handed regulation is necessary. That flag is completely useless otherwise.

    If you want some semblance of privacy from the pervasive tracking, you must use a solution that is completely under your control - i.e. ad blockers, NoScript, Ghostery, block Flash, etc. and not something that relies on the good will of the advertiser that they will obey some silly flag.

    1. Re:DNT is useless by design by Tom · · Score: 1

      Did anyone actually believe that the do-not-track flag was effective?

      Yes, but not in the way you think.

      DNT is useless technologically. But it is a gem when it comes to providing evidence that actual regulations and penalties are required, because the industry is unwilling to regulate itself and respect customer requests.

      There's a tradition in law and law-making that you need to at least try the less intrusive choices first. Now we satisfy that, and we can move on to really stop the parasites.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    2. Re:DNT is useless by design by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1

      I expect the EU to sooner or later begin enforcing it under the data protection legislation.

      --
      SURELY NOT!!!!!
    3. Re:DNT is useless by design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are deluded. The only 'tradition' which will be relevant in this debate (even assuming that mainstream news providers, who are also on the take with regard to ypur privacy, allow it to take place again) will be that who waves the fattest brown envelopes in front of the lawmakers gets what they ask for.

  15. Do We Want Privacy? by ohnocitizen · · Score: 2

    Because if we do, we need to help more people use technical solutions (like the excellent ghostery) and work to put regulations on an industry that will do everything it can to weasel out of them. What we do not need is to blame users for not knowing enough to install tech solutions, say "this surprises no one", or "companies can do whatever they want" or "everything on the internet is public" or "if you are being tracked it is because you choose to be". Here's a thought - if you let companies get away with whatever they want it is because you are choosing not to be part of the solution. So change that. We can work to subvert tracking online and campaign against tracking (and for regulation) at the same time. Unless we don't really want privacy. But I hope that is not the case.

    1. Re:Do We Want Privacy? by gnupun · · Score: 1

      So change that. We can work to subvert tracking online and campaign against tracking (and for regulation) at the same time.

      If the solution meant changing the Internet Protocol, can that be accomplished without a huge cost?

      Unless we don't really want privacy. But I hope that is not the case.

      Yes, the subservient sheeple, the boot-lickers of authority figures, have no problem sharing their data to big authority. The remaining people will not agree this bullshit.

  16. Why is Apple in this headline? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is there any excuse beyond "Apple is better link bait than Facebook"?

  17. Hello, FTC / DOJ? by tambo · · Score: 0

    If true - how is this not a flagrant antitrust violation?

    Company X provides a device that collects personal data.

    Company X announces a standard that prevents anyone from using such data for purposes such as advertising without the user's consent.

    Company X exempts its own services from this restriction, such that its services - which otherwise compete on par with third-party services - can utilize such data notwithstanding, or even contrary to, the user's explicit withholding of consent.

    Company X's services therefore have an unfair competitive advantage that is directly leveraged on Company X's sale of the device to users.

    This is pretty much the definition of unfair competition in the form of tying, If the FTC / DoJ Antitrust Division had any teeth and, er, other body parts, it would be all over this.

    --
    Computer over. Virus = very yes.
  18. It always was meaningless. by koan · · Score: 1

    "'Do Not Track' meaningless"

    FFS did anyone think they would honor that?

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  19. Aviator web browser secure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WhiteHat Security says its "Aviator" browser protects your privacy. "We protect your privacy by launching directly into private browsing mode, blocking ads and other tracking mechanisms, disallowing third-party cookies, and cleaning your system when you exit." Anyone know anything about these guys?

  20. WooHoo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We can now build an entire economy where we all get rich advertizing to each other and selling each other somebody else's private info!!!!

    The hell with actually MAKING things.

    Anybody sense a BIG dangerous bubble here? At least in the 1st internet bubble companies were trying to actually sell STUFF. If this current mess starts to melt down, PETS.COM could end up looking like a solid bet. Right now all this advertize-to-eachother garbage is a better place to invest then in the other nearly zero interest investments, but that could change at the drop of a hat.

    1. Re:WooHoo! by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      Anybody sense a BIG dangerous bubble here?

      No. Ad spend simply followed society as they moved from TV to internet, there's nothing bubble about that, the internet is not a fad.

      Right now all this advertize-to-eachother garbage

      That doesn't accurately reflect the majority of the web.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
  21. Always using apple to get clicks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple is not going to track you, they don't sell ads and they don't sell you. The only companies that ignore "do not track" are the ones that make you the product to sell to make them money. Advertising companies.

  22. Ghostery = Inferior + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A FREE hosts program adds speed, security, & reliability, doing more, more efficiently vs. addons + fixes DNS' redirect security issues:

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    ---

    A.) Hosts do more than:

    1.) AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/... )
    2.) Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
    3.) Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B.) Hosts add reliability vs. downed/redirected dns (& overcome site redirects e.g. /. beta).

    C.) Hosts secure vs. malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less "moving parts" complexity

    D.) Hosts files yield more:

    1.) Speed (adblock & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote dns)
    2.) Security (vs. malicious domains serving malcontent + block spam/phish & trackers)
    3.) Reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable dns, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ isp level + weak vs DGA, & Fastflux + dynDNS botnets)
    4.) Anonymity (vs. dns request logs + dnsbl's).

    ---

    * Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ faster levels (ring 0) vs redundant inefficient addons (slowing slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ os, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization).
    * Addons = more complex + slow browsers in messagepassing (use a few concurrently & see) & are nullified by native browser methods - It's how Clarityray's destroying Adblock.
    * Addons slowup slower usermode browsers layering on more - & bloat RAM consumption + excessive cpu use too (4++gb extra in FireFox https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth...)

    Instead, work w/ a more capable native kernelmode part you already have - hosts (An integrated part of the ip stack)

    APK

    P.S.=> "The premise is quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work for the body rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen: "I am legend"

    ...apk

  23. Ask yourselves these questions... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can ghostery do 15 things hosts files can for more speed, security, reliability, & more:

    1.) Secure you vs. known malicious sites/servers (beyond malicious adbanners - see 2 thru 6 below next)
    2.) Secure you vs. downed DNS servers aiding reliability
    3.) Secure you vs. DNS redirect poisoned dns servers
    4.) Protect you vs. fastflux using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    5.) Protect you vs. dynamic dns using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    6.) Protect you vs. domain generation algorithm using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    7.) Speed you up for websurfing not only by adblocking but also hardcoding favorite sites
    8.) Get you past a dnsbl you may not agree with
    9.) Keep you off dns request logs
    10.) Do all of those things and block ads (better than adblock) more efficiently in cpu cycles and memory usage
    11.) Work on ANY webbound application (think stand-alone email programs, for example).
    12.) Give you direct, easily notepad/texteditor controlled data for all of the above
    13.) Block out trackers
    14.) Block spam mails sources
    15.) Block phishing mails sources

    "?"

    * Simple YES or NO answers will do for repliers to this - that's all.

    APK

    P.S.=> The ANSWER ="NO" to each enumerated item above as far as Ghostery is concerned: Ghostery IS Advertiser owned - "Fox guards henhouse" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...

    Doing less than hosts do (by far) with more complexity + from a slower mode of operations (usermode with more messagepassing overheads vs. hosts in kernelmode, also starting up w/ the IP stack itself, before REDUNDANT inefficient addons even BEGIN to operate, & as the 1st resolver queried by the OS as well)

    ... apk

  24. Ask yourself these questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can ghostery do 15 things hosts files can for more speed, security, reliability, & more:

    1.) Secure you vs. known malicious sites/servers (beyond malicious adbanners - see 2 thru 6 below next)
    2.) Secure you vs. downed DNS servers aiding reliability
    3.) Secure you vs. DNS redirect poisoned dns servers
    4.) Protect you vs. fastflux using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    5.) Protect you vs. dynamic dns using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    6.) Protect you vs. domain generation algorithm using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    7.) Speed you up for websurfing not only by adblocking but also hardcoding favorite sites
    8.) Get you past a dnsbl you may not agree with
    9.) Keep you off dns request logs
    10.) Do all of those things and block ads (better than adblock) more efficiently in cpu cycles and memory usage
    11.) Work on ANY webbound application (think stand-alone email programs, for example).
    12.) Give you direct, easily notepad/texteditor controlled data for all of the above
    13.) Block out trackers
    14.) Block spam mails sources
    15.) Block phishing mails sources

    "?"

    * Simple YES or NO answers will do for repliers to this - that's all.

    APK

    P.S.=> The ANSWER ="NO" to each enumerated item above as far as Ghostery is concerned: Ghostery IS Advertiser owned - "Fox guards henhouse" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...

    Doing less than hosts do (by far) with more complexity + from a slower mode of operations (usermode with more messagepassing overheads vs. hosts in kernelmode, also starting up w/ the IP stack itself, before REDUNDANT inefficient addons even BEGIN to operate, & as the 1st resolver queried by the OS as well)

    ... apk

  25. Do Not Track was always useless. by ledow · · Score: 1

    Do Not Track was always useless.

    Why the fuck are we still talking about it years later? And why the fuck have browsers taken it even semi-seriously?

    It's the "evil bit" for the Internet - nothing more than a joke. Let's treat it like that.

  26. Never worked well anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I never thought it was going to work well anyway. It was always a voluntary thing to adhere to Do Not track markers and the annoying advertisers and vendors never
    bothered to honor the requests. Google's revenue is all about tracking and direct marketing to what your surfing and buying habits are. They are all about knowing what your doing. Apple in my mind is all about tracking you also, and they are no saint in marketing prowlers. But, why is this so difficult to accept given the Facebook's, and Google's of the world. Everything on the internet is all about tracking you.

  27. Duh ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    Of course Do Not Track is meaningless.

    It has always been meaningless. It's a voluntary thing which says nothing at all, and isn't legally binding. It's complete drivel. It's something the industry put out to give the illusion of giving a shit about what we want.

    Want to prevent tracking? Don't let the packets happen in the first place. Use things like NoScript, Request Policy and HTTP Switchboard to deny the access entirely.

    Treat this stuff like the shit that it is ... intrusive advertising and tracking about everything you do.

    The only way to win is block as much of this crap from your browser as you can. You don't owe these companies this data, and the less you provide to them the better.

    And when they whine and bitch about their revenue stream and their terms of service ... well, too damned bad. You aren't required to pull in any packets you don't wish to.

    Once you start using these blocking plugins, you'll be amazed at just how much crap is actually embedded in most every page. One some sites, literally dozens of 3rd parties ... none of whom give a shit about your Do Not Track setting. So just block them entirely.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  28. As long as its not enforceable by law by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

    As long as its not enforceable by law the DNT option is 100% untrustworthy. Do you think our government officials will make it a law?? HAHAH look how long it took for them to put the hammer down on telemarketers. They allow them to spy on us, collecting the very same data the cops would need a warrant for. Nope our Government is bought and paid for by theses corporations we are screwed.

    --
    Jack of all trades,master of none
  29. It's sad that you thought this was newsworthy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "do not track" button has never been a legally binding statement or agreement with any company operating online. It's simply like saying to these companies "if it's ok with you, I would feel a little happier if you chose not to track me, but you're still free to do so if you want."

  30. How should I put this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The bottom line is that ANY 'service' you use connected to the Internet is not under YOUR control. Please do not ever think transferring any data will EVER be secure. In other words, stop fooling yourselves - you know who you are(and we do too LoL). Seriously ....

  31. Adblock Plus evil whitelisting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Users of adblock plus need to be aware of the whitelisting that goes on.
    I'm not referring to the one where you can simply opt out with the check box.
    Google, Facebook and many other companies pay AdBlock Plus to white list some of their tracking stuff.
    These are all related to the exception filters (starting with "@@") that come with any subscription. The render purpose of privacy tracking completely useless. You need to disable all those.

  32. I think the NY Times is wrong by swillden · · Score: 1

    Looking at the actual text of the W3C doc, I think the author of the Times article got it wrong. The language defining "first party" does allow for multiple first parties on a page, but evaluation of "first partiness" is on an interaction-by-interaction basis. The idea is that if the user visiting slashdot, which happens to host Google ads, is actually intending to interact with Google on the slashdot page, then Google is a first party and can track the user. But clearly the user is not intending to interact with Google in that case, so Google could not track a user who had requested no tracking, and would have no advantage over smaller ad networks.

    The exception would be if slashdot started putting Google+ "+1" or Facebook "Like" buttons on its articles. Then, by my reading of the text, the button provider would be allowed to track users who clicked on the relevant button. This would be an advantage over smaller ad networks, but it's one that already exists.

    The terminology section of the doc makes all of this pretty clear, IMO.

    A network interaction is a single HTTP request and its corresponding response(s): zero or more interim (1xx) responses and a single final (2xx-5xx) response.

    A user action is a deliberate action by the user, via configuration, invocation, or selection, to initiate a network interaction. Selection of a link, submission of a form, and reloading a page are examples of user actions. User activity is any set of such user actions.

    A party is a natural person, a legal entity, or a set of legal entities that share common owner(s), common controller(s), and a group identity that is easily discoverable by a user. Common branding or providing a list of affiliates that is available via a link from a resource where a party describes DNT practices are examples of ways to provide this discoverability.

    With respect to a given user action, a first party is a party with which the user intends to interact, via one or more network interactions, as a result of making that action. Merely hovering over, muting, pausing, or closing a given piece of content does not constitute a user's intent to interact with another party.

    In some cases, a resource on the Web will be jointly controlled by two or more distinct parties. Each of those parties is considered a first party if a user would reasonably expect to communicate with all of them when accessing that resource. For example, prominent co-branding on the resource might lead a user to expect that multiple parties are responsible for the content or functionality.

    For any data collected as a result of one or more network interactions resulting from a user's action, a third party is any party other than that user, a first party for that user action, or a service provider acting on behalf of either that user or that first party.

    A party collects data received in a network interaction if that data remains within the party’s control after the network interaction is complete.

    A party uses data if the party processes the data for any purpose other than storage or merely forwarding it to another party.

    A party shares data if it transfers or provides a copy of that data to any other party.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    1. Re:I think the NY Times is wrong by swillden · · Score: 1

      Oops, I forgot to include the disclosure/disclaimer: I work for Google, but I don't speak for Google. They pay me to write code, not comment on privacy issues, and in fact they discourage me from making public comments about such things (though they stop short of telling me I can't, in most cases).

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    2. Re:I think the NY Times is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You desire to be employed by an unethical company that preys on its users' personal information. Why should anyone care about what you have to say on this story?

    3. Re:I think the NY Times is wrong by swillden · · Score: 1

      So don't believe me. Read the document for yourself.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  33. SIMPLE SOLUTION by thygate · · Score: 1

    disable 3rd party cookies. problem solved.

    1. Re:SIMPLE SOLUTION by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 2

      If you think cookies are the only, or even primary, method of cross-site tracking these days, you have some serious catching up to do. Install the RequestPolicy extension for Firefox and take a look at how many companies are getting their shit loaded on a HUGE percentage of unrelated websites. Javascript, flash objects, images, chat systems, like buttons, the list goes on.

  34. AdBlock + Ghostery = Inferior + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A FREE hosts program adds speed, security, & reliability, doing more, more efficiently vs. addons + fixes DNS' redirect security issues:

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    ---

    A.) Hosts do more than:

    1.) AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/... )
    2.) Ghostery (Advertiser owned) - "Fox guards henhouse" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
    3.) Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B.) Hosts add reliability vs. downed/redirected dns (& overcome site redirects e.g. /. beta).

    C.) Hosts secure vs. malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less "moving parts" complexity

    D.) Hosts files yield more:

    1.) Speed (adblock & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote dns)
    2.) Security (vs. malicious domains serving malcontent + block spam/phish & trackers)
    3.) Reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable dns, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ isp level + weak vs DGA, & Fastflux + dynDNS botnets)
    4.) Anonymity (vs. dns request logs + dnsbl's).

    ---

    * Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ faster levels (ring 0) vs redundant inefficient addons (slowing slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ os, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization).
    * Addons = more complex + slow browsers in messagepassing (use a few concurrently & see) & are nullified by native browser methods - It's how Clarityray's destroying Adblock.
    * Addons slowup slower usermode browsers layering on more - & bloat RAM consumption + excessive cpu use too (4++gb extra in FireFox https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth...)

    Instead, work w/ a more capable native kernelmode part you already have - hosts (An integrated part of the ip stack)

    APK

    P.S.=> "The premise is quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work for the body rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen: "I am legend"

    ...apk

  35. Ask yourselves these questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can ghostery/adblock do 15 things hosts files can for more speed, security, & reliability:

    1.) Secure you vs. known malicious sites/servers (beyond malicious adbanners: See 2-6 next)
    2.) Secure you vs. downed DNS servers aiding reliability
    3.) Secure you vs. DNS redirect poisoned dns servers
    4.) Protect you vs. fastflux using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    5.) Protect you vs. dynamic dns using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    6.) Protect you vs. DGA/domain generation algorithm using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    7.) Speed you up for websurfing not only by adblocking but also hardcoding favorite sites
    8.) Get you past a dnsbl you may not agree with
    9.) Keep you off dns request logs
    10.) Do all of those things and block ads (better than adblock) more efficiently in cpu cycles and memory usage
    11.) Work on ANY webbound application (think stand-alone email programs, for example).
    12.) Give you direct, easily notepad/texteditor controlled data for all of the above
    13.) Block trackers
    14.) Block spam mails sources
    15.) Block phishing mails sources

    * "?"

    APK

    P.S.=> The ANSWER ="NO" to each enumerated item above as far as Ghostery is concerned: Ghostery IS Advertiser owned - "A fox guards the henhouse"-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...

    BOTH do far less than hosts do & less efficiently - hosts by way of comparison, do MORE w/ less.

    Not using hosts files, you're doing things LESS efficiently as well: AdBlock's 4++gb & 100% CPU usage flooring inefficiency -> https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth... + ClarityRay defeats it, doing less than hosts do (by far) w/ more complexity + from a slower mode of operations (usermode = more messagepassing overheads vs. hosts in kernelmode, also starting up w/ the IP stack itself, before REDUNDANT inefficient addons even BEGIN to operate, & as the 1st resolver queried by the OS too)

    ... apk

  36. Ask yourselves these questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can ghostery/adblock do 15 things hosts files can for more speed, security, & reliability:

    1.) Secure you vs. known malicious sites/servers (beyond malicious adbanners: See 2-6 next)
    2.) Secure you vs. downed DNS servers aiding reliability
    3.) Secure you vs. DNS redirect poisoned dns servers
    4.) Protect you vs. fastflux using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    5.) Protect you vs. dynamic dns using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    6.) Protect you vs. DGA/domain generation algorithm using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    7.) Speed you up for websurfing not only by adblocking but also hardcoding favorite sites
    8.) Get you past a dnsbl you may not agree with
    9.) Keep you off dns request logs
    10.) Do all of those things and block ads (better than adblock) more efficiently in cpu cycles and memory usage
    11.) Work on ANY webbound application (think stand-alone email programs, for example).
    12.) Give you direct, easily notepad/texteditor controlled data for all of the above
    13.) Block trackers
    14.) Block spam mails sources
    15.) Block phishing mails sources

    * "?"

    APK

    P.S.=> The ANSWER ="NO" to each enumerated item above as far as Ghostery is concerned: Ghostery IS Advertiser owned - "A fox guards the henhouse"-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...

    BOTH do far less than hosts do & less efficiently - hosts by way of comparison, do MORE w/ less.

    Not using hosts files, you're doing things LESS efficiently as well: AdBlock's 4++gb & 100% CPU usage flooring inefficiency -> https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth... + ClarityRay defeats it, doing less than hosts do (by far) w/ more complexity + from a slower mode of operations (usermode = more messagepassing overheads vs. hosts in kernelmode, also starting up w/ the IP stack itself, before REDUNDANT inefficient addons even BEGIN to operate, & as the 1st resolver queried by the OS too)

    ... apk

  37. Ask yourselves these questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can ghostery/adblock/privacybadger do 15 things hosts files can for more speed, security, & reliability:

    1.) Secure you vs. known malicious sites/servers (beyond malicious adbanners: See 2-6 next)
    2.) Secure you vs. downed DNS servers aiding reliability
    3.) Secure you vs. DNS redirect poisoned dns servers
    4.) Protect you vs. fastflux using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    5.) Protect you vs. dynamic dns using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    6.) Protect you vs. DGA/domain generation algorithm using botnet attacks + stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    7.) Speed you up for websurfing not only by adblocking but also hardcoding favorite sites
    8.) Get you past a dnsbl you may not agree with
    9.) Keep you off dns request logs
    10.) Do all of those things and block ads (better than adblock) more efficiently in cpu cycles and memory usage
    11.) Work on ANY webbound application (think stand-alone email programs, for example).
    12.) Give you direct, easily notepad/texteditor controlled data for all of the above
    13.) Block trackers
    14.) Block spam mails sources
    15.) Block phishing mails sources

    * "?"

    APK

    P.S.=> The ANSWER ="NO" to each enumerated item above as far as Ghostery is concerned: Ghostery IS Advertiser owned - "A fox guards the henhouse"-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...

    BOTH do far less than hosts do & less efficiently - hosts by way of comparison, do MORE w/ less.

    Not using hosts files, you're doing things LESS efficiently as well: AdBlock's 4++gb & 100% CPU usage flooring inefficiency -> https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth... + ClarityRay defeats it, doing less than hosts do (by far) w/ more complexity + from a slower mode of operations (usermode = more messagepassing overheads vs. hosts in kernelmode, also starting up w/ the IP stack itself, before REDUNDANT inefficient addons even BEGIN to operate, & as the 1st resolver queried by the OS too)

    ... apk

  38. Ghostery = Inferior + 'Souled-Out'... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A FREE hosts program adds speed, security, & reliability, doing more, more efficiently vs. addons + fixes DNS' redirect security issues:

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    ---

    A.) Hosts do more than:

    1.) AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/... )
    2.) Ghostery = Advertiser owned - "Fox guards henhouse" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
    3.) Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B.) Hosts add reliability vs. downed/redirected dns (& overcome site redirects e.g. /. beta).

    C.) Hosts secure vs. malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less "moving parts" complexity

    D.) Hosts files yield more:

    1.) Speed (adblock & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote dns)
    2.) Security (vs. malicious domains serving malcontent + block spam/phish & trackers)
    3.) Reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable dns, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ isp level + weak vs DGA, & Fastflux + dynDNS botnets)
    4.) Anonymity (vs. dns request logs + dnsbl's).

    ---

    * Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ faster levels (ring 0) vs redundant inefficient addons (slowing slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ os, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization).
    * Addons = more complex + slow browsers in messagepassing (use a few concurrently & see) & are nullified by native browser methods - It's how Clarityray's destroying Adblock.
    * Addons slowup slower usermode browsers layering on more - & bloat RAM consumption + excessive cpu use too (4++gb extra in FireFox https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth...)

    Instead, work w/ a more capable native kernelmode part you already have - hosts (An integrated part of the ip stack)

    APK

    P.S.=> "The premise is quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work for the body rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen: "I am legend"

    ...apk

  39. Ghostery = Inferior + 'Souled-Out' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A FREE hosts program adds speed, security, & reliability, doing more, more efficiently vs. addons + fixes DNS' redirect security issues:

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ 32/64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?o...

    ---

    A.) Hosts do more than:

    1.) AdBlock ("souled-out" 2 Google/Crippled by default http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/... )
    2.) Ghostery =Advertiser owned - "Fox guards henhouse" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
    3.) Request Policy -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    B.) Hosts add reliability vs. downed/redirected dns (& overcome site redirects e.g. /. beta).

    C.) Hosts secure vs. malicious domains too -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... w/ less "moving parts" complexity

    D.) Hosts files yield more:

    1.) Speed (adblock & hardcodes fav sites - faster than remote dns)
    2.) Security (vs. malicious domains serving malcontent + block spam/phish & trackers)
    3.) Reliability (vs. downed or Kaminsky redirect vulnerable dns, 99% = unpatched vs. it & worst @ isp level + weak vs DGA, & Fastflux + dynDNS botnets)
    4.) Anonymity (vs. dns request logs + dnsbl's).

    ---

    * Hosts do more w/ less (1 file) @ faster levels (ring 0) vs redundant inefficient addons (slowing slower ring 3 browsers) via filtering 4 the IP stack (coded in C, loads w/ os, & 1st net resolver queried w\ 45++ yrs.of optimization).
    * Addons = more complex + slow browsers in messagepassing (use a few concurrently & see) & are nullified by native browser methods - It's how Clarityray's destroying Adblock.
    * Addons slowup slower usermode browsers layering on more - & bloat RAM consumption + excessive cpu use too (4++gb extra in FireFox https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth...)

    Instead, work w/ a more capable native kernelmode part you already have - hosts (An integrated part of the ip stack)

    APK

    P.S.=> "The premise is quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work for the body rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen: "I am legend"

    ...apk