Slashdot Mirror
AirAsia Flight Goes Missing Between Indonesia and Singapore
iONiUM (530420) writes As reported by many news sources, yet another plane has lost contact during a trip. This comes on the heels of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 which is still missing, and Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which was shot down. From ABC's coverage: Sixteen children and one infant were among the passengers. At a press conference this morning, Indonesian officials said the plane was several hours past the time when its fuel would have been exhausted.
The six-year-old aircraft was on the submitted flight plan but requested a deviation because of enroute weather before communication with the aircraft was lost. The plane was under the control of the Indonesian Air Traffic Control and had been in the air for about 42 minutes when contact was lost, AirAsia said.
were on the flight, as if adult lifes did not matter just as much.
With regular updates: http://www.aeroinside.com/item...
Why is that so important? Are the other passengers just some randoms we shouldn't give a shit about? Not that we truly do, anyway.
Why write that note on the day of an unrelated airline crash?
Point of information - this wasn't Malaysia Airlines, it was AirAsia.
The pilot tried to ascend over a cloud. My guess is that he hit the coffin corner, stalled, and crashed.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Very similar location though. I wonder if this is where the black hole is that CNN proposed.
Russian media is reporting the plane was downed by a US Navy missile: http://www.pravda.ru/news/poli...
If this is true, this is an unconscionable provocation.
Seems legit...
It's doing nothing of the sort. The linked story appears to be a Pravda op-ed piece quoting Foreign Minister (?) Alexei Pushkov to the effect that Russia isn't really isolated internationally despite the efforts and claims of President Obama to this effect. A native speaker could provide more detail, but that's the gist of it. As for the missing plane, I don't see a single mention of it anywhere on Pravda's main or Asian news pages.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I'm not 100% fluent in Russian, but this really is some domestic political piece critical of Obama (surprise!!), nothing to do with any missing aircraft.
I think you've been trolled... O_o
Reddit live news thread: http://www.reddit.com/live/u5b...
Honestly, compared to most news sources these days, it's probably the best one to read.
What does that have to do with the price of borshcht in Belgorod? The AC made an easily refuted false claim, end of story.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Right. Since it's a well-known fact that children of most travelling parents are transported via shipping container to join Mom and Dad at their destination.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Having taught a bunch of Singaporean airline pilots, I can assure you that you guys suck just as much...
Don't be stupid. One of those three planes was shot down by a missile. That clearly had nothing to do with the race of the pilot.
It has everything to do with the race of the pilot: the pilot didn't race away from the missile quickly enough!
Ezekiel 23:20
That is 100% untrue.
I can only think of two. What was the third lost in Asia?
> I wonder how viable it would be to just quietly escort flights in that region with stealth aircraft for a while to determine what's actually happening.
With thousands of flights a day, there aren't enough military jets and support crews to do that.
The plane was flying the filed pattern and was where it was authorized to be. The airline should have re-routed it, but that's not entirely the pilot's call. Like the weather, they rely on the word of others for the conditions, then do what they can with that information. They were told the flight path was safe, and it was the one the owners of the plane he was flying told him to take. How is that his fault for being off course?
Learn to love Alaska
His point was that MH17 was shot down in Ukrainian airspace, half a world away from Malaysia or Indonesia.
Point of information - this wasn't Malaysia Airlines, it was AirAsia.
More precisely it was Indonesian AirAsia, which is a separate company to AirAsia BHD as Indonesia prohibits majority foreign ownership on airlines. Indonesian AirAsia has its own staff, management and maintenance.
It should also be noted that AirAsia BHD practically owns Indonesia AirAsia as they completely funded the holding company that owns the other 51% of the stock.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/...
Commercial aircraft go down anything up to 20 times a year, even in modern times. Back when you were a kid, likely 30 times a year or more.
Already we have this lot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
That's one every two weeks. One of the ones you hint at was, what, July and over an entirely different continent anyway.
Learn some statistics. You soon find that people have selection-bias on what they see in the news, what they perceive as a "close fact" (being a plane heading TO Malaysia crashing in another continent, instead of one heading from Malaysia that crashes near Malaysia... very different things), and what they want to lump together to form some kind of extraordinary circumstance.
Air Asia and Malaysia Airlines are competitors in the lowest cost airline for the region
Not true!
Malaysian Airline is never a budget airline. It does not have to, because it has all the financial backing from the Malaysian government
Both the Malaysian Airline and the Singaporean Airline were from the same company - Malaysian - Singapore Airline (MSA) established back in 1966. In year 1972 they split
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...â"Singapore_Airlines
Since 1972, Singaporean Airlines have been growing by leaps and bounds, upgrading its service and focus on servicing the flying customers, and for the past 42 years the Singaporean Airline has been making money, every single year
On the other hand, for the past 42 years since the split, the Malaysian Airline has been losing money, 38 years out of the 42 years. In the 42 years since the split, the Malaysian government (or in actual fact, the citizens of Malaysia) have been subsidizing the Malaysian Airline to the tune of TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS but yet, the quality of its service, the condition of its airplane, the food it serves, the service it gives to the flying customers, have been mediocre at best
There has got be to be a time when cutting costs takes a lower priority than human lives
Somebody made the decision not to pay for GPS tracking on Malaysian Airlines, was a similar decision made on the Air Asia flights?
The fact that someone made the decision to not pay for GPS tracking points to the fact that the Malaysian Airline has been plagued by RAMPANT CORRUPTION
Although the Malaysian Airline have been heavily subsidized by the Malaysian government, people working inside still try everything they can to cut corners, so that they can get extra income for themselves
Corruption is nothing new in Malaysia, by the way. What happens in the Malaysian Airline reflects what happens in Malaysia. Everywhere in Malaysia, everything in Malaysia, is connected to corruption
As for AirAsia I do not know if the plane has GPS tracking or not
The history of AirAsia is that that boss of AirAsia used to work for Virgin Airline, and he essentially copied the concept from the "Southwest Airline" of the United States, and applied to Malaysia and South East Asia
Hope the info here can be of some help
... is AirAsia motto. For about 43 seconds it seems...
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
This is Slashdot. Do you think he read the article? Half the time we're lucky if they even read the title.
I have to correct you slightly even though I don't blame the pilots at all: The pilot does decide the route on his own. However, his options are decided by the airline. Normally airlines have no reason to restrict those options other than what authorities already restrict by closing airspace (for e.g. military training reasons). Russia blamed Ukraine for - among other things - not closing that airspace. The route is thus chosen based on weather to exploit favrouable winds and avoid unfavourable winds and bad weather so that flight time and fuel use is minimized. Plenty of other airlines flew precisely the same route (so close that some even should've seen the missile, if they had happened to look). MH17 was precisely where it had informed ATC that it would be and not off course. However, the (drunken?) rebels didn't exactly consult with Ukrainian ATC regarding civil aviation.
Just a question, if there was a black hole in the air at 25000 feet, that just materialised there, would the gravity of the Earth cause it to fall to the ground and into the planets core? Say if it was the size of a marble? Just a hypothetical.
liberare massarum ex ignorantia, clausa descendit molestie.
When lightning hits.... That part of the world is known for really massive lightning - lightning with far more power than average lightning.
No, why would it? ... but obviously darker.
I mean think about it: what if a stone materializes 'just like that' at 25000 feet? It certainly would not fall down to earth by gravity. After all the earth does not know the stone is there and the stone likely just vanishes milli second later in a flash. I guess a hypothetical black hole would simply vanish in a bigger flash
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
It is always the pilots responsibility.
Regardless what the owner or someone else says.
Define "off course". Off from the filed plan? As far as I understood the pilot wanted to change course because of weather conditions. Or do you mean he was "off" from the course he changed to? If he really was "off" it is ofc his fault as well.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Small portion of the globe? Ukraine and the ocean East of Australia...
He was authorized to be flying there. Planes fly over conflict zones all the time, because non-idiots know the difference between civilian airliners and military planes, and no-one gives SAMs worth millions of dollars to imbeciles, and the cheap ones cannot fly 10km.
As it turns out, that was no-one except Vladimir Putin, so now the game has changed.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
The computer reported an imbalance.
North or west of Australia but still closer than Ukraine.
What would be interesting is if it isn't found.
We've never yet had two big planes with 100+ passengers go un-recovered in a given year.
Also.., another Air Asia passenger jet made an emergency landing a few hours later.
Plenty for the connecting mind to chew on.
Whatever the case, hopefully there will be survivors found, (though statistically, that's not a good bet).
Yes the game has changed, now the House of Saud is kicking Russia's economic ass up around their ears; and if Da`eth's funding is collateral damage so much the better.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
In addition, the escort might (given ROE / oversight) be able to deal with external threats. For on-board problems all they could do is watch.
The airline should have re-routed it, but that's not entirely the pilot's call.
The route and safety of flight are shared responsibilities between the dispatcher and pilot. The final authority rests with the Captain per regulation. Were the captain to feel deviation or complete re-route was necessary, he had full authority and responsibility to do so. Where ATC is not accommodating, he can exercise emergency authority to preserve safety of flight.
...it was the one the owners of the plane he was flying told him to take.
Point of information: The "owners" explicitly do not have that authority.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
Well, the first paragraph from iONiUM had the completely irrelevant links to Malaysian Airlines flights 370 and 17, which was probably what put him on the wrong scent. CRETIN editors of /.
Quoting from the India Times:
"08:45 PM
In a separate incident later Sunday, an AirAsia flight carrying more than 150 passengers experiences a technical problem about 10 minutes after taking off from Penang, Malaysia, and has to return to the airport, AirAsia says. The flight takes off again for the short flight to Langkawi island and safely reaches its destination."
Is this then Putin's fault or not?
Confusing this all is.
That's easy. There should be better computer tracking. There should never be a "search". Some of us will need to write the code and design the electronics for that.
it's a fucking war zone, daily flash should have (would have) alerted EVERY civilian airline to that fact, general sensibility is to AVOID civilian overflights of war zones. Missiles are NOT picky. They go where they're told, and generally SAM systems are not equipped with transponder readers.
MH17 would NOT have happened had the person responsible for pointing the nose of the aircraft not done so in such a way in an attempt to shave five minutes off the flight and/or save a gallon or so of kerosene.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
The pilot of MH-17 could have flown slightly to the right, over the black sea, as other intelligent pilots at this and earlier days did and at least MH-17 would not have been shot down. It maybe that this was incompetence or just bad risk taking to save on fuel - still risk assessment is a vital part of any commercial pilot education I shall think.
uh... bollocks. The missile that brought down MH17 was not a shoulder fired job, it was a serviced phased-array RADAR guided system with a hundred seventy pound warhead housed in a twenty foot tube. The track left the ground at a range of more than twenty miles, after the system had been actively tracking the target from over 100 miles range (over the horizon). Also, war zones are generally out of bounds for civilian traffic, whether ground based or air, or even water based. You take your own life into your hands if you choose to ignore the warnings, no nation will protect you if you happen to survive being shot out of the sky in a large aircraft, over a war zone.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Why is this on Slashdot?
I think a story like this belongs, because it can bring together knowledgeable people who can speculate on possible technical issues that may have been the cause of a problem...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Basic physics: The attractive force of the earth on the black hole would move the black hole towards the earth, while the attractive force of the black hole on the earth pulls the earth into the black hole, so they both move. How much they move is dependant on relative mass: the heavier one moves the least, so a super-massive black hole would just sit there while the earth was pulled in.
This is not entirely true - there have been airlines that took precautions and flew over Black Sea instead. Is it not he captain of the plane that has the ultimate power to go for a safer route? We would not have known that MH-17 were at risk then, unless of course somebody were to shoot something out of the skies anyway. This makes for an interesting decision tree. I fly over Black Sea and spend a bit more on fuel and clearly risk my job or I fly over an area where from time to time other planes were shot down and hope that 10+km is enough not to be in a missile range. If he had saved his life, while flying over Black Sea, we possibly would have never known, that flying over Ukraine was such a high risk or maybe we would if other plane were shot down. If another plane were to be shot down, it could have saved his job then. If OTOH his job was not at risk due to slightly higher costs of fuel used to fly over Black Sea then he took moronic decision (together with the guy who pushed the button - if this were the BUK missile operator he probably faced bad choices as well, as there were enemy military aircraft in vicinity).
Not really, it's US shale oil that is kicking the Russian's economic butt. Wasn't planned, won't last all that long, but what the hell, take it.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Take away part of the automation process, and the pilots will have a hard time trying to figure out what should be done. AFR447 repeat.
check your sources: US airlines (and most if not all European ones) studiously AVOID Syria AND Ukraine AND Iraq PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY ARE DESIGNATED WAR ZONES. Malaysia, AirAsia and other Far Eastern airlines which generally seem to have saving as much fuel as possible as the pimary profit motive, IGNORE war zones and yes, they do fly over them regularly.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Is it not he captain of the plane that has the ultimate power to go for a safer route?
He is Captain, but not God. He knows what he's told. No more. He was told "this is safe" so acted on that. It you are a pilot and presume your airline is lying to you every day, you should find another job or another airline.
Learn to love Alaska
You are wrong. Generally SAM missle systems (i.e. not MANPDS) generally ARE equipped with transponder/IFF code selection. In the Russian case the BUK missile is capable of being operated seperately from it's command and control ground radar, in which case it looses IFF protection.
162 people disappeared, and it didn't change the face of the Earth.
You just said bollocks and repeated my point: it was not a shoulder fired missile that any guerilla soldier can get, it was a SAM system previously only available to nation states.
Conflict zones are not out of bound of civilian traffic in general; have a look at a map and see how that would make a lot of routes impossible.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Actually the gravity of the black hole would cause the earth to fall "up" into the black hole. Also the difference in gravity from one random distance to another from the black hole would tear the earth apart. Don't mess with black holes. If they exist, that is...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I don't think there's a malaysian "race" so you're pretty clear of racism while still being insensitive :P
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
This isn't 100% true. I recently flew on a United flight from Atlanta to Dubai, and the nifty map showing the flight path displayed us flying right through the middle of Iraq. Perhaps it used to be true that we wouldn't fly over Iraq, but we do now. I'm sure that there are still altitude restrictions, but I'm just guessing.
This is why the people on location know better about how to run things than do people elsewhere. Hear that, Washington, DC? Here that, U.N.?
There is already a "global sat network": GPS satellites. All that is necessary is that each aircraft radio its position and sensor indications every minute or less.
It doesn't take much wondering to figure out how viable that idea is.
I don't think there's a malaysian "race"
Well if Malays are not a race perhaps you should tell them that. They seem to believe that they are and as such give themselves special treatment under the law when compared to the Chinese and Indians who were also born here.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
There should be better ways to track such planes, its unfortunate that such incidents still happen even with so much technological developments! Looks like we are still in the 50's on these aspects which are most critical.
http://popularbloggingtopics.c...
And the other 49% is owned by AirAsia Malaysia...
In this case, 25 kilofeet. If the airliner was at 250 kilofeet, they had other problems than black holes to deal with. :)
Just sayin'.
Not a totally crazy idea... I think the single-ply hat is just fine.
Curious if the two lost in the region were both under the control of Indonesian Air Traffic Control. 8501 was, according to the article. Do they have a fscked up controller working the scopes?
MH 370 wasn't, but may have passed through Indonesian space after the transponder was off.
Learn to love Alaska